Sorry about the 2 post.
As for the people running around madly, just let them. It's a pretty standard rule that if you're too far from the cleric, then you don't get healed. Stick with the majority of the group, and if everyone is running wild, find a nice corner to relax in.
Just remember the universal cleric's motto: You can't cure stupid.
I have lots of characters of all the classes, and have taken my cleric to almost capped.. I play her because I enjoy the class. I agree it can be very expensive. I mostly pug and have to say I been in great groups and very poor groups . the fact is some people are very selfish or just plain clueless. I often ask at beginning of a quest wheter or not people have pots wans oil ..as I carry a few stacks of candycane, pots and even oils from time to time..i carry them to give freely so people can self heal between fights..or if they become separated and get into trouble , or cause I cant catch up to them,as i am not very fast. Still even after i have given certain players the means to self heal they stand around waiting for me to fill the red bar...
I also was in a lower level group with my ranger ..came in late saw people needed heals.. no cleric ..i began to whip the wand..one was wf so it took alot.. group finishes and wants to repeat..as i am in tav i notice they are waitig too, I say you might wanna grab some pots and oils for next run...they dont..quest starts..they take damege and begin to linger aroun my toon obviously waiting for heals... inthe end i gathered stone left them at the shrine exited and dropped group.. frustrating? yes, but not the norm imho I have run with more very tallented and considerate players than the opposite..just seems we remember a burn much longer... any keep at it good luck
I know the title " Your cleric shouldnt heal you after a battle" is taken very literally but it wasnt meant to be, probably more to stir up the debate and portray it as black and white when of course nothing ever is.
And yeah if a barbarian with 700hp is down that far of course as a cleric heal him, as I said before if the cleric was paying attention during battle hopefully the barbarian would never get down that far to begin with. But also I would hope the barbarian would realize all the mana being used on him could prevent heals down the line for someone else in the group and help the cleric out by downing a few CSW pots. Im not saying just using pots but helping the cleric out and supplement his healing with some pots also.
And I know pots and wands are expensive if your low level but come on, you can grab a CLW wand that rogues, paladins, rangers and bards can all use for about 800gp in the marketplace (well Rusty Nail now). I remember grabbing 1 clw wand on my ranger as soon as I got to level 2 and it lasted until I hit level 4. Again Im not using it to heal the entire party, Im just using it when I need to help heal myself and also if the cleric in the group were to go down. I cant tell you how many clerics and bards were amazed that I would have a wand to help heal myself after a battle, they were almost crying from joy.
And that is basically all this post was meant to convey, everyone has the ability to drink a pot, lots of us have the ability to use a wand. Grab what you can afford and do your part to help out, it will be appreciated.
I've made an abundance of alts over the past few months. Waterworks is as mandatory as ever. So like many of us, I keep running it. It's a fun quest. No complaints here. I'm just posting to say that I think if you give WW another chance your experiences shouldn't be as bad. I've noticed that my last 3 or 4 times running Waterworks has also been filled with a lot of alts (me included). And it's been pretty much a zerg-fest. And even on my healing capable toons, I've rarely had to use any resources. A lot of these alts have twink gear. Elemental weapons. Really good armor. They really overpower the kobolds in waterworks. And as a result, never need much healing until you face the single ogres later on in the quest. That's it. The rest of the time it's just try and keep up. I ran the quest with a level 1 sorc fresh off the boat who had only completed his sully's grog quest. And I didn't even have enough time to cast offensive spells at the kobolds because they died too quick.
My point is ... stick with your cleric if you can. It's a fun class. Very engaging. And through most of the low levels and even some of the mid-levels you are going to encounter some groups that are amazingly over-geared, very specifically tweaked toon builds, that are crazily self-sufficient. These will offset the dud groups you get. And you shouldn't always feel frustrated.
Oh and as far as how to play your cleric ... Do what you feel is right. Do what you find fun. There are different playstyles and neither is more right than the other. So try not to let all the chatter confuse you. Don't take it to heart. Just keep playing and having fun.
Good thing they were my friends.
I fully agree, a newbie cleric shouldn't be expected to have wands. A newbie ranger, pally or bard shouldn't be expected to have wands. All my newbies have wands if they can use, or pots if they can't. The problem is I don't pug most of the time as I have a large guild who will all run lowbies together and if we have no cleric, meh, the wand users will always help heal us up and the non wand users always bring pots .
BUT, when i do pug, more often than not I will give the cleric a little money or buy the wands for him myself or at least be slurping down pots/using wands on myself after battles. To me this is just common courtesy.
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Ultimately for me it depends on the group and the quest.
I exclusively PUG, so I run into my fair share of people. If the group goes smoothly and I'm having fun, then I have no problems dumping a wand or two (or a stack of scrolls) on the group during the rough patches. If things are bad and I'm out of spell points within the first few minutes, then there's no way I'm going to be dumping cash into the party for no good reason.
As for topping people off, again it depends on th quest. If I know there are shrines available, then I have no problem topping off a bar now and then. But if shrines are few and far between, then I will be conserving my spell points for the fights and won't go that extra mile to get that last 10% of the bar.
For the mana spungees, I am one, i pay for my heals, If i pay a cleric in Plat not gold, and give him wands i expect to be healed when i need it before or after battle.
If you use resources then please feel free to pay your cleric if you dont, then feel free to get blisted from groups!
News travels fast, and when people realize your a greedy sponge they wont play with you.
Also the most important skill that comes to mind is UMD with out it ur really a useless toon! you should always try to get ur umd as high as possible dont waste it on Tumble,
or haggle there items and spells that help with most things, sink what u can in to umd.
Last edited by Elcan; 03-22-2008 at 10:04 PM.
i play an offensive casting cleric, however, i do heal to. in my bio, i wrote "if it takes more sp to heal than to cast offensively, i will cast offensively"
playing a casting type is all about sp management. more so for a cleric as clerics are needed to keep party alive.
when playing my cleric, i observe. those that make an attempt to be self sufficient ie pally resisting, ranger barkskin, bard blur, fighter resist items, etc, i generally note these players and afford them more heals. for those who depend on others for their survival, i normally skip a heal or 2.
after battles, i would look at the party's health. if they are all suffering light damage, i'll throw in mass heals. when i call out, better be there within 3s, else take care of your own (zergs beware). if you feel that you cannot stop for me to top up your health, then i cannot pause to heal you. for those who drink pots or wands, again i'll afford them extra attention during battles. if its just 1 player who suffered damage, then depending of the number of hp, i'll toss a heal
clerics doesnt just have heals at their disposal. greater command, cometfall, soundburst and a few others are excellent cc spells. i've run a group through elite feast or famine, no major healing was required. the casters did mass hold, i did greater command. everything was not moving. tactics are required. this meant that the casting types has to move up slightly ahead of the melee to do the magic. if you are the melee who thinks that you can solo everything before they get cc, then again less heal for you. that said, if you are appointed as a bait to group the mobs up for sp conservation purposes, then i'll do my best to keep you alive.
my favorite spell is "create pocket hero". if you think that you are the all uber toon that can do everything and u need a personal nanny, you'll end up in my pocket. if you think that w/o you, the party will wipe, then i'm sorry, i wont let that happen. a cleric has at disposal blade barrier, destruction, cometfall, given melee abilities so that they can fight too. if you cant look beyond the fact that clerics have more than just heal spells, then you deserve to stay in another player's pocket. my cleric can do a mean blade barrier, averaging for 300, 550 for a crit. i have destruction, greater command on my main hotbar too, in fact i only have 3 healing spells on that same hotbar (heal, mcmw, mclw). clerics do not just heal, clerics can kill as well and on my server, i'm acknowledged to be a decent killing cleric
If you want to know why...
Seems that folks are confused...
Clerics can reasonably be expected to use their spell points to heal. There are clerics that don't, which is fine as long as they are known to be filling some other role in the party and someone else is the healer. But it is not reasonable to expect that the cleric also spends money on consumables like wands and scrolls in a PuG situation where no one else is doing likewise. The spell component argument is silly. All casters, not just mages, have component costs. The rogue equivalent is thieves' tools.
If you want clerics to spend money on you, its pretty logical that you show that you are spending money on you as well. That's what self sufficient means. In a PuG, that's how it works. When I'm running my healer bard in my regular party, I use wands and scrolls regularly because I know that we work together on the financial side as well as on the battlefield. That's obviously NOT true of a group of strangers.
You know, it IS reasonable to ask Clerics to spend money on consumables to heal their party when clerics are expecting other people to spend their OWN money on pots, wands to hand out, clickies, etc.
I always hand out cash or wands to clerics I group with (or at least offer, most of them refuse), always have pots of all sorts on all my characters. ALWAYS. It's not to make cleric's jobs easier, but because I think it's stupid to trust my character's well-being to someone I don't know.
I may have misunderstood the person's point, and if I did apologies. But understand that I've run into many PUG clerics who want money or wands and stuff BEFORE the quest run. And then they don't use any of it, too busy using their DD spells or insta-kill spells, then the quest ends and they make off with cash and wands for nothing.
Perhaps I'm sensitive to that situation as I've run into it several times, but I've never seen a class more arrogant and crabby than clerics.
Not as a general rule at all, but whenever I run into a bastard in game, the majority of the time it's a cleric who expects hand outs then ******* when I expect a friggin heal or two.
And I like how people automatically assume I'm a mana drain just because I'm not willing to lick a cleric's feet and bow before their majesty, but I guess that's what you get when people on a message board talk **** about people they don't know.
Most of the clerics I run into in game are awesome, or if not awesome, reasonably competent. But when an ass comes out to play, it's usually a cleric.
So yeah. I don't give them the benefit of the doubt and I expect them to perform and heal if they want wands, cash or both from me.
Otherwise, they can go blow.
as someone who plays 2 dedicated healers i really don't care where we are in a quest what is going on around us, i'm healing people as that's what a cleric does
i understand how expensive it can get as i've burned through stacks of scrolls, both heal, res, and restore
don't know what the gripe about playing clerics is really..... some people don't build maxxed out characters, nor do they stock up properly - so what. clerics are there to heal so know your role and harden up or stop playing a cleric, simple as that
No, play your cleric and play him as you feel fit... here's the thing. First any good veteran player should know how to play... and the number one way to play right is to be flexible. Most veteran's bringing up an alt are most likely well prepared for a quest - weapons, armour, buffs and yes healing. If they're totally reliant on another class to take care of them between encounters, well then they're ill prepared and maybe not as knowledgable as they lead on to be or possibly a total bloody sponge to assume they can ride on other's shoulders. When you're in a group... those 6 to 12 red/blue bars to the right really are not longer single character/class resource indicators - thay are party resouce indicators. As such, everyone in the group is entrusted to help manage them and while I'd expect a cleric or actually anyone capable to help out healing in midst of encounter... during and after the encounter it's entirely a group thing to help manage those bars... inclusive of the person running the character the bar represents.
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My rule of thumb is if you give me wands at the start or in game I will make sure your healed. If not then after the fight you use your own wand or pots. Of course I will heal those that also tip their cleric after the quest (I never PUG so I know which guildies do this). Also the same rule applys to me, I carry wands and pots (every class) and give the cleric a wand or two (funny how I seem to stay healed that way).
The golden rule "All ways tip your cleric because the life you save could be your own".
BTW the price of one CSW vs two death repair bills? What would you rather have?
Last edited by Inc_Doc; 03-24-2008 at 09:41 AM.
Reality is for people with no imagination
unless you make a cleric dedicated to combat you will never be able to keep up with actual fighters at the higher levels.... i've had the best combat gear i could find for my cleric and stepped into combat multiple times only to have to step back and heal either myself or the other tanks which came to slow and ended up in deaths
hell i can wear a robe, sit back and cast offensive spells with the mana i'd probably spend on healing myself and be happier
the more i stepped into combat the bigger my resource drain was, so i'm happy to sit back and let real fighters take care of the melee
Ahh, I see. So you enjoy playing a mafioso cleric charging "protection fees", eh?BTW the price of one CSW vs two death repair bills? What would you rather have?
Hope that works out for you.
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