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  1. #1
    Community Member eyepuppy's Avatar
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    Default The Shroud: How to solve each puzzle in part 3.

    This guide has been added to the compendium: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Shroud_Part_3

    Hey guys! I know a bunch of you were asking how I solve these puzzles so fast every time, so I will fill you in on a little secret. There's a pretty simple algorithm for solving the puzzles in part 3.

    Let's start with the 4x4 puzzle because it is cake! In the 4x4 puzzle, you have four rows of lights in four columns. You start by turning all the lights on the first row. To do this, you press the button right below the lights that are off in the first row. Continue doing this to row 2 and 3. That's it. The puzzle will be solved EVERY time.

    In the 3x3 puzzle, there is a chance there will be a few lights left off after you chase down the lights. Based off the lights that are off in the bottom row, you will hit a certain combination of lights on the top row. Once you have hit all the lights that need hit on the top row, you will chase the lights down again until all the lights are lit. If all the lights are lit, then you hit the right combination and you have solved the puzzle. If you have lights lift over, then you hit the wrong combination.

    The following chart has a list of all the possible combinations that you should see in a 3x3 puzzle after you chase down the lights. The black dots are considered off.



    Now that you have the basics and an understanding of the puzzle algorithm, you can now master the 5x5 puzzle. You do the exact same thing you did in the 3x3 puzzle, except you have a new combination of lights. The following chart will tell you the combination of lights to hit in row one based on the lights that are lit in the bottom row. Once you’ve hit the appropriate lights, then you chase the lights down again for the solve! Piece of cake!



    For Example:
    In a 5x5 puzzle, say you chased down the lights and you were left with this combination in row 5 after all the other lights were on: Off, On, Off, Off, On. The chart says you need to hit light 5 on the top row. Once you hit that light, you chase the lights down and it will be solved. If not, then you messed up somewhere. If too many people are having problms with this, I will try to explain it a little better and maybe put up some better examples.

    EDIT: I will try to get a solution made for the round puzzle, but I have only done it once. I have a pretty good idea how to solve it, but I just don't have enough practice at it to say for sure. I guess I'll try to sit down and iron it out after class today.
    Last edited by eyepuppy; 02-04-2009 at 01:45 AM.
    Rule number one, never follow Wobert. Rule number two, never listen to Wobert.


  2. #2

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    Nice post!

    I'm definitely using this method from now on for the 4x4 - but I think for the other ones I'd probably stick to using my solver

    Garth

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  3. #3
    Community Member jmonty's Avatar
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    good work man.


    what about rule number 2?

  4. #4
    Community Member Mad_Bombardier's Avatar
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    Very coherent explanation, eyepuppy. I know there's faster ways (less steps) to solve the puzzle using solvers, but I like algorithms, too! Sure beats trial and error.

    You do have two minor errors. You say, "the 4x4 and 3x3 are a little different" right after you finish explaining the 4x4s. And you have a set of 6 lights in your example, "off, on, off, off, on, on." I'm pretty sure you just need to drop the last 'on'. Again, great explanation!

  5. #5
    Community Member eyepuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier View Post
    Very coherent explanation, eyepuppy. I know there's faster ways (less steps) to solve the puzzle using solvers, but I like algorithms, too! Sure beats trial and error.

    You do have two minor errors. You say, "the 4x4 and 3x3 are a little different" right after you finish explaining the 4x4s. And you have a set of 6 lights in your example, "off, on, off, off, on, on." I'm pretty sure you just need to drop the last 'on'. Again, great explanation!
    Yes, the solver takes less moves, but more time to solve because you have to alt tab out, enter the info, go back in to check the puzzle, then alt tab to click solve, then hit your solution. This is just a pain unless you have 2 computers.

    Also, the example I put up is an example of a 5x5 puzzle. I will edit and state that to avoid confusion. It's meant to give an example at how to use the charts.
    Rule number one, never follow Wobert. Rule number two, never listen to Wobert.


  6. #6
    Community Member trptim's Avatar
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    Great guide.
    For 4x4, I tested it using the solver and it kept failing.
    I then hit solve on those, and there were no solutions

    So hopefully DDO has something in place to always have solutions, which the solver doesn't have

    Crossing my fingers for 4x4 everytime, so I don't have to think

  7. #7
    Founder & Hero jjflanigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trptim View Post
    Great guide.
    For 4x4, I tested it using the solver and it kept failing.
    I then hit solve on those, and there were no solutions

    So hopefully DDO has something in place to always have solutions, which the solver doesn't have

    Crossing my fingers for 4x4 everytime, so I don't have to think
    There are certain patterns that will get you into an "unsolvable state" -- if you look at the charts listed for the 5x5 it only lists out 7 of the possible layouts you can end up with for the bottom row. Any other row will result an "unsolvable" puzzle.

    I've not run across an in game puzzle that resulted as unsolvable, so I think they have a set selection of patterns that they use rather than just completely random.

    For the circle puzzle, it's a matter of chasing the lights down til you only have one left lit. At that point you simply select either of the adjacent tiles, then you'll have two sets of 3 that you can turn on in one click. The "light chasing" follows a different method since you have to alternate what you click to get things to cycle properly, but I'm trying to work out a way to get it into javascript to include in the solver.

  8. #8
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Nicely done thanks

    Aesop
    Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff
    Rule 2: Its all small stuff
    Rule 3: People are stupid. You, me everyone... expect it
    more rules to come in a different sig

  9. #9
    Community Member trptim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjflanigan View Post
    There are certain patterns that will get you into an "unsolvable state" -- if you look at the charts listed for the 5x5 it only lists out 7 of the possible layouts you can end up with for the bottom row. Any other row will result an "unsolvable" puzzle.
    Yeah, was just trying to work out the 5x5 and forgot to check if the puzzle was unsolvable first, and came up with one of those missing end patterns

    Will be printing out these pictures, just in case I end up in the 3x3 or 5x5

    Haven't seen the circle yet, so hopefully the hints will make sense.
    Last edited by trptim; 02-19-2008 at 08:12 PM.

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  11. #11
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    This the method I been using for awhile I actually posted it in Harncw thread but you explain it much better then I did. Your way actually slightly quicker in some situations because I was doing the composition states in separates passes rather then hitting multiple lights on top at once if those stats arose.

  12. #12
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    For the ring puzzle:



    Ink

  13. #13
    Founder Heladron's Avatar
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    I'm diametrically opposed to using cheaters. There are many reasons for this.

    The reasons are as follows:
    1. Using a cheater is CHEATING. Cheat is in the name. How do you feel when someone is cheating you?
    2. They tend to feed entitlement mentality. AKA I deserve to win all the time and should never be defeated. There's no way to learn from your mistakes if the cheater isn't allowing you to make mistakes.
    3. They make you dependent. What will you do if someone hacks the cheat website and it's not there?
    4. Cheaters will make your brain mushy and will likely lead to Alzheimers.*
    5. There is no sense of adventure and therefore the victory is hollow. Whoo hoo! A computer solved the problem for you and you got some pretend stuff. Nice job.
    6. If you were in any kind of modern competition you would be disqualified immediately.
    7. You'll grow hair on your palms or go blind. Possibly both.


    * = I made that up, but some studies have shown that having many neuro-pathways may prevent Alzheimers. When not solving puzzles and thinking you are not forming new neuro-pathways.

  14. #14
    Founder & Hero jjflanigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heladron View Post
    I'm diametrically opposed to using cheaters. There are many reasons for this.

    The reasons are as follows:
    1. Using a cheater is CHEATING. Cheat is in the name. How do you feel when someone is cheating you?
    2. They tend to feed entitlement mentality. AKA I deserve to win all the time and should never be defeated. There's no way to learn from your mistakes if the cheater isn't allowing you to make mistakes.
    3. They make you dependent. What will you do if someone hacks the cheat website and it's not there?
    4. Cheaters will make your brain mushy and will likely lead to Alzheimers.*
    5. There is no sense of adventure and therefore the victory is hollow. Whoo hoo! A computer solved the problem for you and you got some pretend stuff. Nice job.
    6. If you were in any kind of modern competition you would be disqualified immediately.
    7. You'll grow hair on your palms or go blind. Possibly both.


    * = I made that up, but some studies have shown that having many neuro-pathways may prevent Alzheimers. When not solving puzzles and thinking you are not forming new neuro-pathways.
    Actually, I am diametrically opposed to your opposition of using SOLVERS. There are many reasons for this:

    • They allow people who don't like doing puzzles to continue enjoying the aspects of the game they do enjoy
    • It is no different then using a calculator or even using excel for your doing spreadsheets rather than doing it by hand
    • It is no more "cheating" than looking at any info on this website that has any details or information about an aspect of the game
    • There is no sense of adventure and therefore the victory is hollow since this is a game anyway. Whoo hoo! You completed a puzzle in a game and you got some pretend stuff. Nice job.


    There's no need to be all judgmental on people that don't like puzzles. They are playing an MMO, not Mastermind or Lights Out, etc. Perhaps they chose not to play those games because they don't enjoy them, but they do enjoy DDO?

  15. #15
    Founder Heladron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjflanigan View Post
    Actually, I am diametrically opposed to your opposition of using SOLVERS. There are many reasons for this:

    • They allow people who don't like doing puzzles to continue enjoying the aspects of the game they do enjoy
    • It is no different then using a calculator or even using excel for your doing spreadsheets rather than doing it by hand
    • It is no more "cheating" than looking at any info on this website that has any details or information about an aspect of the game
    • There is no sense of adventure and therefore the victory is hollow since this is a game anyway. Whoo hoo! You completed a puzzle in a game and you got some pretend stuff. Nice job.


    There's no need to be all judgmental on people that don't like puzzles. They are playing an MMO, not Mastermind or Lights Out, etc. Perhaps they chose not to play those games because they don't enjoy them, but they do enjoy DDO?
    If minimizing cheating by saying it's like using a calculator, this isn't real life, it's not a cheat program it's a "solver", or any other excuses make it easier on your conscience then go ahead and cheat. See if I care.

    Eyepuppy has done everyone a huge service by showing that there is an easy way that doesn't involve cheating/solving using a computer instead of your brain. And then responses like just use the "solver" come up and it minimizes peoples efforts who are trying to make peoples lives a bit easier without having to cheat. Eyepuppy is giving you all the tools to solve the puzzles and all you have to do is learn the rules and apply that knowledge.

  16. #16
    Community Member Wizzly_Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjflanigan View Post
    Actually, I am diametrically opposed to your opposition of using SOLVERS. There are many reasons for this:
    • They allow people who don't like doing puzzles to continue enjoying the aspects of the game they do enjoy
    • It is no different then using a calculator or even using excel for your doing spreadsheets rather than doing it by hand
    • It is no more "cheating" than looking at any info on this website that has any details or information about an aspect of the game
    • There is no sense of adventure and therefore the victory is hollow since this is a game anyway. Whoo hoo! You completed a puzzle in a game and you got some pretend stuff. Nice job.

    There's no need to be all judgmental on people that don't like puzzles. They are playing an MMO, not Mastermind or Lights Out, etc. Perhaps they chose not to play those games because they don't enjoy them, but they do enjoy DDO?
    qft

    also, its not like youre playing solo. if you cant do a puzzle then youre a drain on your party as somene else has to come do it for you. and what if multiple people in party cant do it. most parties im in i have to do 3-4 puzzles. it was fun for a little while figuring them out, but i just use cheaters now. i dont feel like solving the same old puzzle a billion times. same with the sr. fun figuring out the puzzle for a while, but now, i just cheat.

  17. #17
    Founder & Hero jjflanigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heladron View Post
    If minimizing cheating by saying it's like using a calculator, this isn't real life, it's not a cheat program it's a "solver", or any other excuses make it easier on your conscience then go ahead and cheat. See if I care.

    Eyepuppy has done everyone a huge service by showing that there is an easy way that doesn't involve cheating/solving using a computer instead of your brain. And then responses like just use the "solver" come up and it minimizes peoples efforts who are trying to make peoples lives a bit easier without having to cheat. Eyepuppy is giving you all the tools to solve the puzzles and all you have to do is learn the rules and apply that knowledge.
    Well...one thing to keep in mind...I'm the one who put the solver up. The solver uses the exact same logic as the manual solving, it just takes it a step further to rationalize the solution to the simplest state. Before you start calling me a cheater and saying I need to rationalize using it because I can't do it manually, you should really know the person to whom you are speaking. Computers and software are there to make our lives easier, I write programs to do things that I don't want to do manually. It's not cheating, it's called being smart.

    *edit*

    As a side note -- I think it's great that eyepuppy put this up there for those who do like to understand the concept behind a puzzle type game and want to do it themselves...however, those people are no "better" than those who use a solver.

  18. #18
    Community Member Wizzly_Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heladron View Post
    If minimizing cheating by saying it's like using a calculator, this isn't real life, it's not a cheat program it's a "solver", or any other excuses make it easier on your conscience then go ahead and cheat. See if I care.

    Eyepuppy has done everyone a huge service by showing that there is an easy way that doesn't involve cheating/solving using a computer instead of your brain. And then responses like just use the "solver" come up and it minimizes peoples efforts who are trying to make peoples lives a bit easier without having to cheat. Eyepuppy is giving you all the tools to solve the puzzles and all you have to do is learn the rules and apply that knowledge.
    eye's is just another solver. a more vague one, but still a solver. and if you didnt care you wouldnt be respondingto this

  19. #19
    Community Member Wizzly_Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjflanigan View Post
    It's not cheating, it's called being smart.
    yes, a smart person finds more efficient ways to do things.

  20. #20
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    This is a useful thread. Please, let's keep it from becoming cube food.

    Ink

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