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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    Do you consider something liek Freshen the Air or Swiped Signet at-level to be hard quests? Yes or no? Before suggesting that they are not worth much XP, jsut answer - are they difficult to do at-or-under level?
    Honestly, no I don't consider FtA hard. All it takes is a little strategy and preparation. Swiped signet, more of a challenge, but again, not more than any of the chain quests at or under level. Of course if you try to toe-to-toe the mobs standing in the sleet storm, then yeah yer gunna have trouble... but the whole point they are saying over and over is that: they ran in a tight group working together with strategy and tactics.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    Waterworks, Tangleroot, STK, Cult of the Six, etc, are not normally considered difficult quests, are they? They're done by the general populace most often because of large ratio of rewards to risk. That's why they're done over and over, isn' it?
    So, you think a fighter not twinked, casters not twinked, tackling CO6 elite under level is easy? Flamestrike, DR/SR on the renders and reavers... Is it at all possible that they are done more because they are better designed and more fun? Tackle Tangleroot elite with a level 4/5 group. The end boss is CR 15. That's easy? Well, I think it isn't hard... but it does take skill and teamwork. Any lowbie quest, with Kobald shamans on elite, can be difficult. How is it that you can say that freshen the air is hard an these examples are not? What ARE you doing in freshen the air? The end boss in STK... can easily wipe out a group by standing on the shield blockers' heads and wiping the caster/cleric out--and in PD thats instant reroll... They did state that first off they got 150 coin lords favor, then House P favor.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    Simple question - is it easier to do ALL of the content or to do only the content that rewards you the most? If you do all of the content, aren't you doing everything they've done above and then some? So isn't it by definition, harder?
    Well... as I play this game for fun, even though I have 11 capped toons, 4 midlevel and several lowbies, I have only completed Catacombs on 4 toons. I disagree that doing all the content is necessarily harder than just playing the game to get maximum enjoyment. Harder in terms of forcing myself to do quests I don't enjoy then sure. harder in terms of strategy? No, I don't think so. I think some quests are mislabeled in their dificulties sure, but not anything that makes them hard enough that I would not do them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    I believe they played by their stated permadeath rules and achieved level 14 the way they say they did. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.
    You know MR, I keep looking in the game guides section on how to properly achieve lvl 14 permadeath style but couldn't fine one. You intentionally misinterpret and mis read when, to be honest, I think they have made an effort to answer your questions... if you choose to read with a closed mind then of course you wouldn't see the answers anyways.

    But sure have welcomed the "discussion."
    Khyber
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  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    You know MR, I keep looking in the game guides section on how to properly achieve lvl 14 permadeath style but couldn't fine one.
    Strings' Guide to lvl 14 Permadeath:

    Classes Needed:
    • 1-2 Mage(s) - Sorc + Wiz would be awesome
    • 1 Rogue (Traps on Elite are brutal)
    • 1 Bard (Fascinate will save your group countless times)
    • 1 Cleric - Buffs & Raise Dead


    Preparation
    • Master the crucible swim on your squishiest character.
    • Learn the fastest / safest tapestry run in the orchard
    • Have your mage(s) learn the web + firewall trick (Thanks Renegade!).
    • Make your non-essential classes be fat dwarves for better door blocking.
    • Block every door, make sure non-door blockers don't have initial agro.


    Misc
    • If you click buttons with your mouse to cast spells, don't roll a mage.
    • Get house P buffs as soon as you can while leveling.
    • Always group with the same people so you can share loot and get to know each other's play style.
    • Beholders can be fascinated (which does not break on a save, *hint hint*)
    • Refrain from playing when you're completely hammered (oops)


    Hope this helps Clay!!
    Last edited by Strings; 12-12-2007 at 02:10 PM.

  3. #83
    Community Member MondoGrunday's Avatar
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    i think the most amazing accomplishment here is the fact he capped a toon in a month and that toon was perma death!!!!
    i just don't see how that is possible.
    Guilds: Wrath of God & Keepers of the BorderlandPalladia Mors- Fighter 16 Vaevictis Asmadi-Bard 16 Darigaaz TheIgniter- Paladin10/Rogue4/Fighter1 Bladewing The Risen -Sorcerer 16 Necrosavant -Barb 12/Fighter2/Bard 2Mondo Grunday - Rogue 14/Ranger2 Spiritmonger-Barb14/Ranger2-Propaganda-Cleric3/Ranger2Serraangel -14 Wizard/RogueMortify - 14 Paladin/2Monk

  4. #84
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MondoGrunday View Post
    i think the most amazing accomplishment here is the fact he capped a toon in a month and that toon was perma death!!!!
    i just don't see how that is possible.
    It really doesn't take that long if you run high XP quests and have a good team with you with little downtime transitioning. I expect people that play all day long can get there within a week and certainly less than two.
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
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  5. #85
    Community Member MondoGrunday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    It really doesn't take that long if you run high XP quests and have a good team with you with little downtime transitioning. I expect people that play all day long can get there within a week and certainly less than two.
    it's still amazing to me (not saying it can't be done) that it was done with a perma death toon tho. i would figure a much more slow and cautious approach which would drastically increase the time to complete. somewhere between a casual player and hardcore player. I teach so I have summers off and play quite a bit during the day in summer. It took me 3 1/2 weeks to level my sorc. I only used pug's and no effecient leveling runs with my guild. That toon was not perma death and I figure it would take significantly longer to cap that toon if it were perma death. But less time if I ran specific quests with guildmates. I'm still amazed it was done in a month. that is the most impressive part of your accomplishment. Gratz
    Guilds: Wrath of God & Keepers of the BorderlandPalladia Mors- Fighter 16 Vaevictis Asmadi-Bard 16 Darigaaz TheIgniter- Paladin10/Rogue4/Fighter1 Bladewing The Risen -Sorcerer 16 Necrosavant -Barb 12/Fighter2/Bard 2Mondo Grunday - Rogue 14/Ranger2 Spiritmonger-Barb14/Ranger2-Propaganda-Cleric3/Ranger2Serraangel -14 Wizard/RogueMortify - 14 Paladin/2Monk

  6. #86
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Thanks again.

    A more cautious approach is definitely required, but that's relative.

    Non-perma, we zerg 99%+ (run, die, rez). With perma, we still zerged a ton. Maybe as high as 90%. In any given quest, the time difference between running into a room and laying waste versus shield blocking at a door is a matter of seconds. Having everyone in the group knowing when to zerg and when to slow down allows the fastest perma-leveling possible. Forming a like minded and like skilled team as we did can be incredibly difficult.
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

  7. #87
    Community Member Uamhas's Avatar
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    Congrats to Ren in particular, and Legion Permadeath in general. Good times, gentlemen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beol
    AA is a river with currents both of a profound acceptance of individuality and of a certain love for brutal efficiency.
    ~ Oloth's Tale ~ xX-----==<<<Yes, I roleplay. Get over it.>>>==-----Xx


  8. #88
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Any plans for this character or Legion PD group to do any of the mod six content without doing it non-PD first?
    M O R T A L V O Y A G E
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    Stay Hard

  9. #89
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parvo View Post
    Any plans for this character or Legion PD group to do any of the mod six content without doing it non-PD first?
    Doubtful. Legion is first and foremost a bunch of zergers looking to be the first to get the best new loot.
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

  10. #90
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    Doubtful. Legion is first and foremost a bunch of zergers looking to be the first to get the best new loot.
    Oh man...you gotta do at least one quest like that in your PD career. It's the most memorable PD play you can do. It'll really take you back to those PnP days. Preferably one you hear is hard but not a total death trap. Poison (pre-nerf) was a good one like that.
    M O R T A L V O Y A G E
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  11. #91
    Community Member Riorik's Avatar
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    I am amazed that somebody could run a permadeath character to level cap in that short a time - I'd guess he probably lived online.

    However, stating what I think is probably obvious, the single most important factor for survival in quests is experience. There are a lot of things that affect survival but the #1 item in my book is knowing the quest - something that transforms something impossible or hard into CandyLand difficulty. Sometimes, Zerging is actually the technique that minimizes quest difficulty - why wait to let them hit you?
    Ghallanda ReRolled Naxy-Transil-Kottol-Nax-Riorsil-Riorik-Kaol

  12. #92
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riorik View Post
    I am amazed that somebody could run a permadeath character to level cap in that short a time - I'd guess he probably lived online.

    However, stating what I think is probably obvious, the single most important factor for survival in quests is experience. There are a lot of things that affect survival but the #1 item in my book is knowing the quest - something that transforms something impossible or hard into CandyLand difficulty. Sometimes, Zerging is actually the technique that minimizes quest difficulty - why wait to let them hit you?
    Didn't live online at all. We played 3-4 times a week. Maybe 2-3 hours on a weekday and a bit more on a weekend day. I'd say this is a reasonable amount of playtime. The key to leveling that fast is hitting the high XP per minute quests. Run on normal, hard and elite and move on. You can level even faster if you pharm the high XP/min quests, but our PD rules don't allow that. We ran Crucible on norm/hard/elite in about 90 min including going back to town. That's huge XP for such a short amount of time.

    You're right in that knowing the quests and knowing when to slow down is absolutely key. It only takes one idiot to wipe the party though (especially when you're only 3-4 manning), so having the same core group of players knowing how each other plays is at least as important. Also right up there is having the right group make-up. We had a battle cleric, heal bard, batman build and the sorc to kill everything. A very flexible group that can each get the others out of a jam. Finally, you have to throw into the mix player skill.
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

  13. #93
    Community Member brshelton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    That wouldn't be a challenge, that would just be stupid. We have however started a permadeath group fresh on Sarlona. Our group make-up is more typical. For example, I'm playing a straight Barbarian. Again, no AH. We aren't using Vendors for weapons and armor, but do use it for wands, scrolls and pots.
    ive seen yall running around sarlona and for some reason your cleric gets in the PvP pit. Whats the rules on that?

  14. #94
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brshelton View Post
    ive seen yall running around sarlona and for some reason your cleric gets in the PvP pit. Whats the rules on that?
    PvP deaths don't count. I think this is a pretty standard PD rule.
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

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