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  1. #41
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    mmm Guinness

  2. #42

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    Congrats Renegade...

    Here, to help us all understand are Mortal Voyage's rules:
    Code:
    The Rules of Mortal Voyage
    Members agree to play by the letter and spirit of the following rule set.  The rule set is intended to support the original mission of the guild.  If game mechanics or common strategy change we will consider changes to the rules.
        1.  Your character must be level one to join the guild.
        2.  No spoilers.  Don’t talk about what is coming up in a quest.
        3.  If your character dies, delete it or leave the guild.  Lag deaths count.  City deaths count.  We do not use raise shrines.  Nor do we recall/raise out to taverns.  You can only be raised if one of your living group-mates has the ability.  You cannot invite others into the group to assist with raises.  The same rule covers incapacitated characters.
    Exception; Known bugs do not count (listed below).
    Exception; PvP deaths do not count.
        4.  Do not use repeatable innate raise abilities below level nine.  Consumable raise abilities are acceptable at any level.
        5.  If your character dies, surviving party members may loot one item from your corpse.  The surviving members must recover your Soul Gem to loot your corpse.  If they can not get the Soul Gem, they can not loot the corpse.
    Exception; you may designate one item as an heirloom. The one heirloom item can be passed to a new, level one character.
       6.  If your character dies, any equipment not looted by survivors (and the one heirloom item) is either deleted, sold for guild funds or transferred out of the guild.  Bank items and money included.
        7.  Do not use the auction house to buy or sell.
        8.  Do not purchase commodity magic items from vendors (wands, potions, scrolls, etc). Pawnbroker purchase is OK.  Non-magic purchase is OK.  Favor-related vendors are OK. 
    Note: Commodity items are items that are always available at vendors.  Purchase of magical commodities is not allowed.  Non-magical commodities are allowed.  Inscription and spell components are non-magic, and therefore permissible.  Broker purchase is allowed.  Brokers can be identified by their NPC title.  NPC titles can be viewed by turning on the option in the User Interface.  You can sell items to any Non-player vendor or broker. 
        9.  Do not exit and re-enter a quest.  You may not re-enter to complete objectives or loot until the instance re-sets.
    Exception; you may re-enter a quest to save a fellow group-mate who needs help.
        10.  No PUGing. Do not group with others outside the guild.
        11.  Do not accept gifts of any sort from characters outside the guild.
        12.  No Twinking. Do not pass any item, gear or money to any other character. This includes your own characters within the guild.
    Exception; you can trade collectibles and consumable items like potions, wands, scrolls and ammo within the guild.  Note:  If Turbine gives us a workable collectible solution, we will drop the collectible exception.
    Exception; Group-mates can share items that are found in chests within an adventure. End rewards cannot be traded.
        13.  No “tag-alongs”. You may not “tag-along” in a quest just for item drops.  If you’re getting no XP from power leveling, you are tagging along.  Don’t do it.
        14.  Run quests at the highest level of difficulty available to the group.  You are not required to reset quest chains if you start over with members who have not started.
    And Sublime's:
    Code:
    GUILD CHARTER:  
     
    You die, you delete. We do not use Resurrection Shrines. 
     
     A cleric or other character which is able to raise a dead person in the party can raise you, otherwise your gone. You can not bring somebody into the party to raise you, they must have already been there when you died. You may not be raised before reaching level 4. 
     
    *PvP deaths DO NOT count  
    *Deaths to known bugs DO NOT count (listed below)  
    *Lag deaths DO count  
    *Death in the city DOES count  
     
    When you die you can pass your gear to the survivors in the group. You may pass down one item to your next character. The bank will be considered family property (at level 4 and above) and it is left to the player to decide what to do with the those items on death. You also have the option of mailing items to the guild bank 'Hargus' to be used in the next guild event. 
     
     For the first 3 levels you may only accept gifts from teammates, and may not buy from Brokers or the Auction House. Normal vendors are ok. We do not accept gifts from or trade with characters outside of the guild. 
     
    We do not play in PUGs (Pick-up groups) with our permadeath characters, only with other guild members.  
     
    Don't rush ahead of the group. We stick together and work as a team to try and get everybody through the quest alive. Don't recall from a quest to recover and re-enter at full strength.
    From what I can see, with my poor English reading ability, both guilds allow for raising. Parvo's own rules allow for raising by either consumable or spell ability! Now I don't know, but his constant harping about raising seems less about real sublime and more like... feelings of being left out? I dunno.

    Now his rules are definately stricter about helping out your teamates... i.e. rule 12. Let me see... I, paladin superb, am running along in a quest without our inestimable rogue. I loot some gloves of open lock +uber number... Obviously I can't use em... so, according to MV i would of course leave them there, in the chest. How does this represent PnP reality? If I am questing, but Bob couldn't make it this day because of a family obligation... would I not take the gloves and give them to him next time I see him? I fail to understand this rule. What happened to helping each other?
    Khyber
    R e v e n a n t s Renowned
    Thelanis

  3. #43
    Hamfather totmacher's Avatar
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    Grats Legion on both the cappage and the other accomplishments (titan, etc).

    I've played using both Mortal Voyage and Sublime rules. I "converted" my character on the Argonessen server from MV -> Weird Funky Sublime Subset with Custom Attachment and Dohickeys (Patent Pending).

    For anyone interested in Permadeath reading this thread, most of the arguments and counter-argument is based around what you consider Permadeath to be. Everyone has their own view of what it should be and thus anything derived from that, like "accomplishments" is totally in the eye of the beholder. What is an accomplishment for one guild is not for another.

    I, personally found MV's rules to be a bit too hardcore and as someone who has played with the guild leader up to level 4, it just wasn't my cup of tea (no offense). I loved that what you looted is what you got, I loved that you couldn't buy off vendors, I loved the hardcore aspect of it. I found the not talking about stuff coming up to be particularly frustrating because when I was with random people, I wouldn't talk at all in the group. And what's the point of playing D&D if you are sitting there silently grinding away, I wasn't able to form any relationships with the people I was playing with for fear of loosing my tongue. So I left and rolled with my usual guild who all rolled permies because we've done these quests a trillion times so we know what's going on. I also found the rules set too hardcore for the people I wanted to play with (LK on Argo).

    Conversely though Sublime's rules are a LOT looser when it comes to random Permadeath options and thus are more easily "twinkable". Auctions, buying stuff off vendors, etc etc. Buying stuff off vendors seems to be a 3rd edition ism which doesn't really appeal to the 1st-2nd edition crowd. "Magic" in 2E (this is just a personal thing) wasn't so easily bartered with that there were price values for every item. And yes, you can grind money forever reselling stuff to the Auction House because of lazy players but that's obviously not in the spirit of Permadeath. Also, I really found using vendors to be the best source of twinking. It makes those random drops of cure wands not really as important if you're playing with Sublime's rules as opposed to MV.

    So overall, I do enjoy the MV rules set to a point (and find it to be more "permadeathy") but I find the Sublime rules set to be a bit more palatable. It's just more condusive to an atmosphere of partying with people who are not supremely hardcore players.

    Also for anyone still reading this, TRY PERMADEATH. YOU'LL ENJOY IT. It's a lot of fun because not of only the "you die, you lose" aspect but also because item drops are rare and uber and you feel like a noob again. Party especially with guildies/friends because random partying is boring and almost the same as PUGing but for much higher stakes. If you can get 3 of your friends into it, it really is a lot of fun to take a night away from doing titan, reaver, dragon, etc etc. and roll Permadeath and roll on that epic +2 longsword that just dropped in STK on Normal.
    Last edited by totmacher; 12-11-2007 at 10:39 AM.

  4. #44
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    First off, congratulations. I wish I had the time to be able to get my permadeath characters through the game.

    I have a few questions:

    1) What quests did you skip?
    2) How much favor did you obtain?
    3) Did you go back and run any quests that were several levels below your characters?

    I ask because I have some additional PD rules I wanted to enforce on my PD charcter above and beyond the Sublime rule:

    1) Aside of raids (where it might be impossible to get 12 people of high enough level), try to avoid skipping level-appropriate quests.
    2) Acquire as much favor as possible.
    3) Set up a maximum limit to where no character is mroe than +x levels above the intended quest level.

    I'm not sure what X should be ... 1 ... 2 ...

    That also means a liklihood of holding off on leveling a character if there are some level-appropriate quests you haven't attempted.

    I say this because it is exceptionally challenging to do Elite-level quests even in the Harbor where your characters aren't several levels above the quest level.

    P.S. Another rule would be:
    4) Do all optionals possible (skipping only the ones where you need a rogue to open a lock and don't have a rogue with you, for example).
    Last edited by MysticRhythms; 12-11-2007 at 11:12 AM.
    Thelanis characters: Ashelynne (Human Cleric 18), Dixx (Drow Tempest Ranger 19), Khalmyr (Human Warchanter Bard 16), Schyv (Human Assassin Rogue 11), Staunch (Warforged Vanguard Fighter 28), Tavvi (Warforged Wizard 9)

  5. #45
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    First off, congratulations. I wish I had the time to be able to get my permadeath characters through the game.

    I have a few questions:

    1) What quests did you skip?
    2) How much favor did you obtain?
    3) Did you go back and run any quests that were several levels below your characters?

    I ask because I have some additional PD rules I wanted to enforce on my PD charcter above and beyond the Sublime rule:

    1) Aside of raids (where it might be impossible to get 12 people of high enough level), try to avoid skipping level-appropriate quests.
    2) Acquire as much favor as possible.
    3) Set up a maximum limit to where no character is mroe than +x levels above the intended quest level.

    I'm not sure what X should be ... 1 ... 2 ...

    That also means a liklihood of holding off on leveling a character if there are some level-appropriate quests you haven't attempted.

    I say this because it is exceptionally challenging to do Elite-level quests even in the Harbor where your characters aren't several levels above the quest level.

    P.S. Another rule would be:
    4) Do all optionals possible (skipping only the ones where you need a rogue to open a lock and don't have a rogue with you, for example).
    1) Skipped quests that had little reward (XP) for the risk.
    2) A bit over 1000 favor
    3) Rarely ran quests below our level unless it was to finish up favor

    As far as your new rules, I wouldn't rope yourself into something that limits your fun. For example, I would shoot myself if we were forced to get all the breakables to ransack before finishing a quest.
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

  6. #46
    Community Member neoanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    Thought it worth mentioning that I capped my permadeath character Marauder today. I'm sure you're all happy for me.

    Pic
    That's awesome congratulations!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    1) Skipped quests that had little reward (XP) for the risk.
    Do you have a list? Obviously just scanning your completed quest log would show which ones you skipped. And why skip something "for the risk" in a permadeath setting? Isn't "for the risk" kind of the whole point?

    3) Rarely ran quests below our level unless it was to finish up favor
    What I was getting at was how often? How many? Which pieces of favor?

    As far as your new rules, I wouldn't rope yourself into something that limits your fun.
    Eliminating risk would limit my fun. I'd feel a bit dirty if I skipped quests like The Pit or other quests deemed "annoying" by the populace. I'd much rather open my quest log and see a page full of "Normal/Hard/Elite" rather than a lot of "Not completed." To me, that's a little more impressive than achieving level 14. Though beating the titan is impressive.

    For example, I would shoot myself if we were forced to get all the breakables to ransack before finishing a quest.
    I prefer leaving no stones unturned. I'm not into turboing dungeons. Again, maybe that's why some PD players can't go from 1-14 in two months.
    Thelanis characters: Ashelynne (Human Cleric 18), Dixx (Drow Tempest Ranger 19), Khalmyr (Human Warchanter Bard 16), Schyv (Human Assassin Rogue 11), Staunch (Warforged Vanguard Fighter 28), Tavvi (Warforged Wizard 9)

  8. #48
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    Do you have a list? Obviously just scanning your completed quest log would show which ones you skipped. And why skip something "for the risk" in a permadeath setting? Isn't "for the risk" kind of the whole point?


    What I was getting at was how often? How many? Which pieces of favor?


    Eliminating risk would limit my fun. I'd feel a bit dirty if I skipped quests like The Pit or other quests deemed "annoying" by the populace. I'd much rather open my quest log and see a page full of "Normal/Hard/Elite" rather than a lot of "Not completed." To me, that's a little more impressive than achieving level 14. Though beating the titan is impressive.


    I prefer leaving no stones unturned. I'm not into turboing dungeons. Again, maybe that's why some PD players can't go from 1-14 in two months.
    1 month, not 2. Eliminating risk was not my point, in fact, you need that risk and we challenged ourselves the entire way with risky endeavors. I should have said, we skipped quests that took a long time for little XP. A list would be difficult, since most quests we never touched. That doesn't mean we ground quests to death either. We ran quests on normal, hard, elite then moved onto the next one. We did run the pit. I don't consider forcing ransack on every quest to be a good idea. It would just be boring. Personal preference though. Maybe there are others out there wanting your slow and painful approach
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

  9. #49
    Community Member Rayzorlew's Avatar
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    Badonkadonk=My perma toon.
    1st=received her coin lord 150 favor.
    Tangle=N.H.E. (house p favor)
    Necro=N.H.E.
    Redwillow=N.H.E.
    Gwylans=N.H.E.
    Caged Trolls=N.H.E.
    Stormcleave=N.H.E.
    Greymoon=N.H.
    Co6=N.H.
    The pit=N.H.(Elite I can't remember)
    Thernal=N.H.(Elite I can't remember)
    Von1-4=N.H.E.
    (wanted to do preraid but needed another wisdom char. and we don't allow pugging)
    B.A.M.=N.H.(Elite I can't remember)
    Went and got helms from Orchard.
    All of Gianthold (except preraid and raid)=N.H.E.
    (wanted to do preraid but we still didn't have enough relics, and we don't use AH.)
    Received 150 Argo favor.
    Finally got her portable hole, for coinlord, lol.
    H.I.P.S=N
    Ghola=N
    Hit level 14, in here somewhere.
    Shriek/mines=N
    Restless Isles=N
    Titan=N

    I know I'm missing the little in between quests, but by looking at this list it's hard to say we ducked anything.
    She died 2x's in 14 levels, Axcent/Bard res'd me both times.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    I prefer leaving no stones unturned. I'm not into turboing dungeons. Again, maybe that's why some PD players can't go from 1-14 in two months.
    Quote Originally Posted by parvo View Post
    What I don't like is the availability of Raise Scrolls at commodity vendors which give all characters with high enough UMD the ability to raise. The commodity vendors were really poor MMO design. I tried to adress that with the Mortal Voyage rule set. Without them, the game is much more balanced.
    Statements like these are so funny..........
    Yeah well I like playing DDO with my monitor turned off and just because I'm never gonna get anywhere doesnt matter MY WAY's BETTER!

    All you need to do is accomplish something your way guys, hell anything, and we'll congrat ya.
    LOL




    **edited= I added Co6 and Greymoon**
    Last edited by Rayzorlew; 12-12-2007 at 05:23 AM.
    Sinjed~Furnace~Wompadinga~Knaughty
    Meditate~Bandaides~Knasty~Klepto~Getbent~Zerkforge
    Womp~LEGION OFFICER~Rayzor

  10. #50
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayzorlew View Post
    Statements like these are so funny..........
    Yeah well I like playing DDO with my monitor turned off and just because I'm never gonna get anywhere doesnt matter MY WAY's BETTER!
    ROFL, what, not everyone plays with their monitor off? What kind of challenge is that? I would never lower myself to playing in a group with all monitoons. Congratulations on your accomplishment, but even though I've never reached the end of the spawn dock, "real" DDO is played with monitors turned off, leg chains on and both hands tied behind your back.
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

  11. #51
    Community Member neoanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    1 month, not 2. Eliminating risk was not my point, in fact, you need that risk and we challenged ourselves the entire way with risky endeavors. I should have said, we skipped quests that took a long time for little XP. A list would be difficult, since most quests we never touched. That doesn't mean we ground quests to death either. We ran quests on normal, hard, elite then moved onto the next one. We did run the pit. I don't consider forcing ransack on every quest to be a good idea. It would just be boring. Personal preference though. Maybe there are others out there wanting your slow and painful approach
    holy .... you went from 1 to 14 in 1 month? I'm flabbergasted - what do you do all day? Between work, girlfriend, movies, books, nights out, etc., I've barely managed to scratch level 5 with my primary. I already feel like I spend too much time playing DDO - probably upwards of 10 hours a week. I do have a ton of alts (full slots on my main server, and working on it on another), but given the rate at which the level progression seems to slow, I can't imagine playing enough to do 70 ranks in one month. That just blows my mind.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    1 month, not 2.
    Pardon me for my error.

    Eliminating risk was not my point
    That's exactly what you said, however. You eliminated risk unless it suited your reward (in this case, experience points). So you actually faced much less content and in particular, ignored the most difficult content by your comments below.

    in fact, you need that risk and we challenged ourselves the entire way with risky endeavors.
    How is it a challenge if you skipped the majority of quests?

    I should have said, we skipped quests that took a long time for little XP. A list would be difficult, since most quests we never touched. That doesn't mean we ground quests to death either.
    No but it DOES mean you skipped a lot of content that you found might slow you down. Just above you corrected me on the timeframe it took for you to achieve your goal. Well, if you ran the easiest quests that gave the most experience points (for example, something like Recovering the Lost Tome for lowbies), then achieving level 14 isn't as impressive.

    We ran quests on normal, hard, elite then moved onto the next one. We did run the pit.
    SO which ones did you skip? You say the list is long, but you can easily do a screen shot or two of your favor achievements, right? I'm just curious to see which quests you considered to be "not worth your time."

    I don't consider forcing ransack on every quest to be a good idea. It would just be boring.
    Or rather time consuming which is contrary to your goal - most reward with least effort.

    Maybe there are others out there wanting your slow and painful approach
    Interesting jibe there. You seek to be aggrandized for accomplishing a goal quickly but then point out that you kind of engineered your approach to avoid the most time consuming (and probably difficult) quests in the game. While the achievement from 1-14 is impressive for a PD character, if the majority of the tiem spent from levels 1-4 was in Waterworks, STK, Tangleroot, Greymoon, Co6 and such, then I submit it's not difficult to get someone close enough to level 9 without much effort. Then once level 9 is achieved, the availability of Raise Dead makes the last five levels that much simpler, again, if risky quests are averted.

    But if "level 14" was your main accomplishment, then congratulations on achieving your goal in the least painful way possible.
    Thelanis characters: Ashelynne (Human Cleric 18), Dixx (Drow Tempest Ranger 19), Khalmyr (Human Warchanter Bard 16), Schyv (Human Assassin Rogue 11), Staunch (Warforged Vanguard Fighter 28), Tavvi (Warforged Wizard 9)

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    ROFL, what, not everyone plays with their monitor off? What kind of challenge is that? I would never lower myself to playing in a group with all monitoons. Congratulations on your accomplishment, but even though I've never reached the end of the spawn dock, "real" DDO is played with monitors turned off, leg chains on and both hands tied behind your back.
    So when someone suggests that you could play ithe game in a way that challenges you more, this is your reaction?

    Interesting.
    Thelanis characters: Ashelynne (Human Cleric 18), Dixx (Drow Tempest Ranger 19), Khalmyr (Human Warchanter Bard 16), Schyv (Human Assassin Rogue 11), Staunch (Warforged Vanguard Fighter 28), Tavvi (Warforged Wizard 9)

  14. #54
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoanderthal View Post
    holy .... you went from 1 to 14 in 1 month? I'm flabbergasted - what do you do all day? Between work, girlfriend, movies, books, nights out, etc., I've barely managed to scratch level 5 with my primary. I already feel like I spend too much time playing DDO - probably upwards of 10 hours a week. I do have a ton of alts (full slots on my main server, and working on it on another), but given the rate at which the level progression seems to slow, I can't imagine playing enough to do 70 ranks in one month. That just blows my mind.
    Well, believe it or not I have a real life. Full time job, wife, kids, schnauzer, etc. The four of us played a couple nights a week for 2-3 hours and a bit more on weekends. The key to leveling quickly, even in permadeath, is knowing which quests give you the most XP for the amount of time required. Also, we had a core group of four very experienced players that know every quest like the back of their hand. All game time was devoted to gaining XP. Even when we were farming tapestries for the hvy fort/toughness helm we were getting a ton of Explorer/Slayer XP in the Orchard.

    Good XP quests to run on normal, hard and elite (careful on permatoons):
    Goodblade quests
    Low Road
    Durk's got a secret (muckbane and XP)
    Information is key
    Kobold's New Ringleader
    Waterworks
    Shan-to-Kor
    Tangleroot
    Delera's & Necro
    Gwylan's
    Stormcleave
    Co6
    The Pit
    Threnal West/East/South
    BAM
    VoNs
    Gianthold
    Titan
    Reaver
    [RENEGADE (Monk) - LEGION - FOUNDER AUG 2005]
    Blutus, Bodak, Diablo, Guilloteen, Jellybean, Mantikor
    Marauder, Renaissance, Rigormortiss, Ungajinga, Valkyrie
    1st ww Tower/Vision/Abbot/Shroud, Epic VoN/Chrono, Reaver Xoriat * 1st capped Permatoon

  15. #55
    Time Bandit Renegade66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    Pardon me for my error.


    That's exactly what you said, however. You eliminated risk unless it suited your reward (in this case, experience points). So you actually faced much less content and in particular, ignored the most difficult content by your comments below.


    How is it a challenge if you skipped the majority of quests?


    No but it DOES mean you skipped a lot of content that you found might slow you down. Just above you corrected me on the timeframe it took for you to achieve your goal. Well, if you ran the easiest quests that gave the most experience points (for example, something like Recovering the Lost Tome for lowbies), then achieving level 14 isn't as impressive.
    Here's where you've gone awry. You relate us skipping quests that slow us down to running the easiest quests. This is not the case at all. We ran quests with the highest XP that take the shortest amount of time. We ran quests above our level on normal, hard and elite, which was much more challenging but much quicker. We ran Crucible elite and Madstone Crater with 3 people. You should do the same (if you can). How is that ignoring the difficult content. We did not need to run every quest to hit lvl 14. We ran high XP quests on normal, hard and elite and voila, we were 14. We did not grind easy quests. We did not grind at all. You say it's not a challenge because we didn't run every quest. Where is that in the PD rulebook? You guys seem to have an endless list of unwritten rules that we should have known about and followed in order to really succeed.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post
    SO which ones did you skip? You say the list is long, but you can easily do a screen shot or two of your favor achievements, right? I'm just curious to see which quests you considered to be "not worth your time."

    Or rather time consuming which is contrary to your goal - most reward with least effort.
    Rayzorlew just posted the general list of what we ran. What more do you want to see? I'm at work and can't give you a screenie.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRhythms View Post

    Interesting jibe there. You seek to be aggrandized for accomplishing a goal quickly but then point out that you kind of engineered your approach to avoid the most time consuming (and probably difficult) quests in the game. While the achievement from 1-14 is impressive for a PD character, if the majority of the tiem spent from levels 1-4 was in Waterworks, STK, Tangleroot, Greymoon, Co6 and such, then I submit it's not difficult to get someone close enough to level 9 without much effort. Then once level 9 is achieved, the availability of Raise Dead makes the last five levels that much simpler, again, if risky quests are averted.

    But if "level 14" was your main accomplishment, then congratulations on achieving your goal in the least painful way possible.
    Yes we did "engineer" our approach. It's ludicrous to consider this a bad thing.

    Yes we avoided time consuming quests with low XP. We did not avoid difficult quests.

    How do you NOT spend a majority of your lvl 1-4 time in those quests. You typically don't even get to Greymoon until lvl 5. Are we playing the same game?

    I love how you submit that our approach was easy. Can you do it? Go show me then maybe someone will take that comment seriously.
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  16. #56
    Community Member rpasell's Avatar
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    Why do people seem to want to hijack a thread like this with snide "Congrats on doing it *snicker* (the cheesy way)"? Isn't that against the rules of this new forum anyway?

    Very nice accomplishment. Congratulations.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    You relate us skipping quests that slow us down to running the easiest quests. This is not the case at all. We ran quests with the highest XP that take the shortest amount of time.
    It would be more telling to display the ones you actually skipped and explain why they were skipped. Personally, I don't care.

    You should do the same (if you can).
    Was that statement necessary?

    How is that ignoring the difficult content.
    Skipping quests = ignoring content.

    We did not need to run every quest to hit lvl 14.
    That's exactly my point, actually. If "achieving level 14" is the goal, I merely submit that it's an easier goal than "attaining X favor" for example.

    We ran high XP quests on normal, hard and elite and voila, we were 14.
    Congratulations.

    You say it's not a challenge because we didn't run every quest.
    I didn't say it's not a challenge. I said it's less of a challenge than running all of the content.

    Where is that in the PD rulebook?
    1) I don't write any rulebooks
    2) I never said it had to be done

    You are posting your accomplishment in an acknowledgement thread.

    I can post "My character made it to level 2."

    This is a discussion forum. I certainly think it's on topic to describe just how much of an accomplishment achieving *insert your goal here* actually is. Otherwise, why does it need to be in a discussion forum? Would you rather just see a dozen posts saying "Congratulations" or ... "That's really not a big deal?" Or would you rather people actually discussed your accomplishments?

    You guys seem to have an endless list of unwritten rules that we should have known about and followed in order to really succeed.
    I'm not a member of The Sublime so there's no need to lump me into "you guys." I'm just "random guy who plays DDO." In my ever-so-minor-and-unimportant-opinion, it's not AS impressive to PD your way to 14 as it is to PD to, say 1750 favor. Would you say it's easier to just attain the favor?

    Rayzorlew just posted the general list of what we ran. What more do you want to see?
    Nothing, actually.

    Yes we did "engineer" our approach. It's ludicrous to consider this a bad thing.
    It's not a bad thing. I never said it was a bad thing. What I said was "to challenge yourself MORE you could ______,"

    Yes we avoided time consuming quests with low XP. We did not avoid difficult quests.
    If Rayzor's list is the majority of your accomplishments, then I'll simply disagree with you here. There are many difficult quests not listed above.

    How do you NOT spend a majority of your lvl 1-4 time in those quests. You typically don't even get to Greymoon until lvl 5. Are we playing the same game?
    Actually, running nothing but Harbor and Marketplace content, not even counting Tangleroot OR Shan Ta Kor can get someone from level 1-6. It's not easy, hoewever.

    I love how you submit that our approach was easy. Can you do it?
    It's easier by your assertion. You specifically stated you maximized your XP output per hour of play. You specifically avoided what you called "risky" quests to do so. Please note that you used the word 'risky' - I didn't. And again with the "can you do it?" Is that your defense to anyone saying something other than "congratulations?"

    Go show me then maybe someone will take that comment seriously.
    ok
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  18. #58
    Community Member LOUDRampart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parvo View Post
    Congratulations.

    How many times did your Permadeath character die on the way to cap?
    First, grats on the achievement.

    Second, Permadeath is only permadeath up to level 9 (or 6 if you allow the enhancement). After this, it is just a more difficult ruleset you follow.

    And if you won't allow the cleric to raise dead at 9, then it wouldn't be dnd anymore...

  19. #59
    Community Member neoanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade66 View Post
    Well, believe it or not I have a real life. Full time job, wife, kids, schnauzer, etc. The four of us played a couple nights a week for 2-3 hours and a bit more on weekends. The key to leveling quickly, even in permadeath, is knowing which quests give you the most XP for the amount of time required. Also, we had a core group of four very experienced players that know every quest like the back of their hand. All game time was devoted to gaining XP. Even when we were farming tapestries for the hvy fort/toughness helm we were getting a ton of Explorer/Slayer XP in the Orchard.

    Good XP quests to run on normal, hard and elite (careful on permatoons):
    Goodblade quests
    Low Road
    Durk's got a secret (muckbane and XP)
    Information is key
    Kobold's New Ringleader
    Waterworks
    Shan-to-Kor
    Tangleroot
    Delera's & Necro
    Gwylan's
    Stormcleave
    Co6
    The Pit
    Threnal West/East/South
    BAM
    VoNs
    Gianthold
    Titan
    Reaver
    My comment came off sounding more snide than I intended, for which I apologize. I've done the majority of my playing solo - I didn't really have a consistent group to play with until last week when the g/f finally got her own account. I thought that our new characters were gaining levels faster than my primary, but I hadn't actually confirmed that grouping did it. Given the quests that I've done, for the most part, it would probably take me (forever-1) days to get to level 14, since I generally only run them once or twice, and I'm pretty random in what I've done. That's an awesome list, though - thanks! I'll keep it handy. Again, congrats - I still think you've got an achievement there, regardless

  20. #60
    Community Member Tulsa_Doom's Avatar
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    Default Grats on lvl 14

    On a side note, I think I scrolled up and read something MysticRhythms said about skipping content or ignoring content. I guess thats the rub isnt it. The content is kind of old. I could die happy without ever having to do TR or GM/CO6 ever again. And if you know what the acronyms stand for then you must have some semblance of sympathy for the sentiment.

    Its odd how these forums have become some breeding ground for disenchanted players nasty sentiments. And its all in the guise of discussion, freedom of speech, and witty banter. Noone can ever say hey I accomplished such and such, and Im excited enough to post it because I like the game without being slammed ruthlessly. I mean so many ppl disenfranchised with this game it seems, I mean seriously the forums are full of some pretty inflammatory stuff, and yet you all keep playing. I guess do what makes you happy. I cant imagine what new gamers (they are out there ) think about some of these posts.

    As for Ren, good for you man, found a way to make the content worthwhile for yourself. Its cool if you used Mortal Voyage, Sublime or Geneva Convention rules. Maybe bringing it a bit upon yourself by making the thread name Bringeth thy hate but hey what the hell. . Sorry got sidetracked there on earlier thought. I guess if I had to permadeath a new character, I would not go through Bringing the Light, Irestone Inlet, or any number of other quests not because I wanted to ignore content or bypass it but because in addition to it not being much use to me xpwise it had ceased to be fun.

    Grats again Ren.

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