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  1. #1
    Community Member Rozata's Avatar
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    Red face Keyboard vs. Gamepad

    I was thinking about buying a gamepad for DDO, i figured with a standard gamepad, built with a d-pad, 4 index finger buttons on top, 2 analog sticks, and 6 thumb buttons on the right side, you could use 3 of the top index finger buttons for weapon sets and the fourth to cycle through targets, D-pad to move, 1 thumb button to attack and the other 5 for actionbar hotkeys 1-5 you would have a pretty good setup and wouldn't have to use the keyboard too much, especially using voice chat. Just put your top 5 combat spells or skills on the first 5 actionbar slots and keep buttons that you only need to hit once and a while not in combat on 6-0 and use the mouse to click them when needed.
    So I would like to know who here currently uses a gamepad or has used one in the past and what they think of the gamepad compared to the keyboard, if it facilated gameplay, simplified it, or if it complicated the situation. Any info or opinions would be great.
    Also, is it possible to make the analog sticks act as buttons, "IE: push analog button to the left = actionbar slot 6." If so that would allow for 8 more commands and make the gamepad really versatile.

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    Rozata
    Last edited by Rozata; 10-19-2007 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    While there are some who prefer a gamepad i would suggest against it. The mouse is simply the best input device for direction control currently in existence. No 3d game(and by 3d game i mean game with 3dimensional gameplay, not 3dimensional graphics) that uses a gamepad has ever been as precise or fast to control then one that uses a mouse. Of course if you already don't use mouse look you wont lose out on much.
    • NEW – Tip #52 no longer mistakenly says that the Jump skill reduces falling damage. The appropriate skill is, in fact, tumble.

  3. #3
    Community Member Mudcnd's Avatar
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    I use a saitek Pro gamer command unit http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8d12/ , it works pretty good, but ya keep the mouse.

  4. #4
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    I use a Merc keyboard ( http://www.ideazon.com/us/products/m...ngkeyboard.asp ) with an integrated gamepad. I have my number-pad (right side of keyboard) hotkeyed with 1 as select mob, 3 as attack, 4 as select object, and 5 as interact. I still use my mouse, but only for buying/selling and interacting with NPCs. For some reason I'm more comfortable spamming Num 3 when attacking instead of my right mouse-button.

    I play mostly fighters/rogues, so I don't have to worry about spells. I've been wanting to roll a mage and a null-specced cleric, but the only thing holding me back is not knowing how I'd set up the keyboard. I'm really not a twitch gamer, so I don't know how I'd keep track of dozens of spells (as opposed to a few weapons). How do you spell-slingers have your keyboards set up?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectralist View Post
    While there are some who prefer a gamepad i would suggest against it. The mouse is simply the best input device for direction control currently in existence. No 3d game(and by 3d game i mean game with 3dimensional gameplay, not 3dimensional graphics) that uses a gamepad has ever been as precise or fast to control then one that uses a mouse. Of course if you already don't use mouse look you wont lose out on much.
    Gamepads are used with the mouse, atleast all the ones I have owned and seen. Gamepad in left mouse in right. It's a miniture keyboard programable how you like. The one I have has 10 keyboard keys with 3 flipable banks + directional D-pad, and a volume or throttle wheel... all these are programable as far as what you want each i/o to represent.

    I don't think the OP was asking about using a gamepad to control look direction...

    I use mouse look a lot, but I never have it toggled on... I use directional (wasd) keys in left and hold left mouse button for mouse look. I too frequently need to move things around click extra stuff on bars to worry about toggling it on and off with my left hand, easy to do it with left mouse button.. All the game pad does is give a comfort feel and programablility to the left hands use.
    Last edited by Snike; 10-20-2007 at 02:10 AM.

  6. #6
    Founder adamkatt's Avatar
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    Mouse good for quake 3 mouse good for ddo...
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  7. #7
    Community Member ErgonomicCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snike View Post
    Gamepads are used with the mouse, atleast all the ones I have owned and seen. Gamepad in left mouse in right. It's a miniture keyboard programable how you like. The one I have has 10 keyboard keys with 3 flipable banks + directional D-pad, and a volume or throttle wheel... all these are programable as far as what you want each i/o to represent.

    I don't think the OP was asking about using a gamepad to control look direction...
    Based on what he described, I'm pretty sure he was - he's talking about using a real game pad, like a PS2 controller, to play.

    I'd recommend against that.

    However, I used a Nostromo n52 for all my gaming, and I can't recommend it enough. It's basically a mini keyboard, with a d-pad, a couple extra buttons, and 4 configs. It's just spiffy.
    I use mouse look a lot, but I never have it toggled on... I use directional (wasd) keys in left and hold left mouse button for mouse look. I too frequently need to move things around click extra stuff on bars to worry about toggling it on and off with my left hand, easy to do it with left mouse button.. All the game pad does is give a comfort feel and programablility to the left hands use.

    Edit: Looks like the Pro GamePad link is pretty much the same thing, with more buttons. I found that more than 3 rows tended to get in my way, but if you want more, that one looks pretty nice too.
    I play on Ghall...Gall..Galli...The new Fernia. Lifetaker, Heartbreaker, and Battlemage
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  8. #8
    Community Member Onubis's Avatar
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    Personally i hate using the mouse PERIOD, for anything. I've bought trackballs for both my laptop and desktop, alls u have to do is move ur thumb instead of ur whole arm, and then pick up the mouse and start over...
    I use a game pad for ddo, i prefer it. It's a basic playstation design.
    And I do not think the difference could be noticed between a gamepad and a mouse in terms of accuracy(sp?) etc. IMO, any1 claiming the mouse is better is just baised and probably hates consoling game, so anything that reminds them of it they hate. just playing.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlameCandida View Post
    How do you spell-slingers have your keyboards set up?
    Well, i have 1-0 for action/damage spells like wall of fire, fireball, outilukes, etc.
    ctrl 1-0 for weapon sets
    shift 1-0 for a couple more weapon sets & buffs & metamagics
    numpad's 1-0 for buffs & DDoor
    f1-10 for wands & scrolls
    3 other bars that aren't hotkeyed that have various wands scrolls clickies gear to swap for certain circumstances
    and one last hotbar that just has spell components so i can see at a glance if i need any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snike View Post
    I don't think the OP was asking about using a gamepad to control look direction...
    I figured he meant a gamepad like for a console. I can't see why anyone would bother with something that is little more then a keyboard replacement with less buttons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onubis View Post
    And I do not think the difference could be noticed between a gamepad and a mouse in terms of accuracy(sp?) etc. IMO, any1 claiming the mouse is better is just baised and probably hates consoling game, so anything that reminds them of it they hate. just playing.
    I claim the mouse is better for directional control because it is. I have a great deal of experience gaming it is, quite simply, my life. And if anything i prefer console gaming due to the simplicity of not having to deal with all of the possible different hardware.

    But a mouse is better. It is simply not possible to control a floating camera/drive mode game (or a first person, or really any 3d game, and by 3d i mean 3d gameplay not just 3d graphics) with a dpad or joystick as accurately and quickly as you can with a mouse. If you prefer and can play with a gamepad/joystick all the power to you, but unless it's controlling something with an intentionally slow movement(say a tank simulator where the turret can only turn so fast) it is inferior to the mouse. You can not swing your camera around and have your reticule targeting where you want it as quickly and accurately with any gamepad as you can with a mouse.
    Last edited by Spectralist; 10-20-2007 at 10:58 AM.
    • NEW – Tip #52 no longer mistakenly says that the Jump skill reduces falling damage. The appropriate skill is, in fact, tumble.

  10. #10
    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onubis View Post
    Personally i hate using the mouse PERIOD, for anything. I've bought trackballs for both my laptop and desktop, alls u have to do is move ur thumb instead of ur whole arm, and then pick up the mouse and start over...
    I use a game pad for ddo, i prefer it. It's a basic playstation design.
    And I do not think the difference could be noticed between a gamepad and a mouse in terms of accuracy(sp?) etc. IMO, any1 claiming the mouse is better is just baised and probably hates consoling game, so anything that reminds them of it they hate. just playing.
    People always say the keyboard and mouse are more precise, but when joystiq held a shadowrun competition and IGN (I think it was IGN mabee someone else) held a halo 2 competition between pc and consol gamers, the controller using console gamers won both matches.

    It really just comes down to what you are comfortable with. I play alot of hours of Halo 3 using my controller. I use a controller in Tabula Rasa, but in DDO I prefer keyboard and mouse.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiglin View Post
    People always say the keyboard and mouse are more precise, but when joystiq held a shadowrun competition and IGN (I think it was IGN mabee someone else) held a halo 2 competition between pc and consol gamers, the controller using console gamers won both matches.
    I don't know much about halo 2, but shadowrun is a very bad example, since it was designed with the intention of showing that a gamepad can be as good or better then the mouse. What it really showed was that a game designed around a gamepad works as good or better with it then with a mouse. Which is hardly shocking.

    Most console shooters have much more lenient hitboxes, and or semi-autoaim specifically because a gamepad/analog stick is unable to match the mouse. If that's not proof that the mouse is more accurate then i dont know what is. Maybe watching people who aren't using the mouse in DDO as they take 3 seconds to turn 180°.
    • NEW – Tip #52 no longer mistakenly says that the Jump skill reduces falling damage. The appropriate skill is, in fact, tumble.

  12. #12
    Community Member wiglin's Avatar
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    The menu were optimized for a console, but when you are strafing and aiming the menu and ui doesn't matter.

    What I would like to see is an MLG competition between the top pc gamers and the top console gamers, using games that are cross platform.

    I agree though I much prefer using a keyboard in ddo. I do not play in mouse look though. If I was forced to play in mouse look I would use a controller like I do in Tabula Rasa.

    I use too many buttons in ddo to use a controller.

    I tried using a controller in BF2, but I went back to the mouse. Same thing too many buttons.

  13. #13
    Community Member Mudcnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErgonomicCat View Post
    Based on what he described, I'm pretty sure he was - he's talking about using a real game pad, like a PS2 controller, to play.

    I'd recommend against that.

    However, I used a Nostromo n52 for all my gaming, and I can't recommend it enough. It's basically a mini keyboard, with a d-pad, a couple extra buttons, and 4 configs. It's just spiffy.
    I use mouse look a lot, but I never have it toggled on... I use directional (wasd) keys in left and hold left mouse button for mouse look. I too frequently need to move things around click extra stuff on bars to worry about toggling it on and off with my left hand, easy to do it with left mouse button.. All the game pad does is give a comfort feel and programablility to the left hands use.

    Edit: Looks like the Pro GamePad link is pretty much the same thing, with more buttons. I found that more than 3 rows tended to get in my way, but if you want more, that one looks pretty nice too.
    Yeha I had a Nostromo n52 prior and upgraded to the pro gamer, one thing i donr like about the pro gamer is the keys are set up just like a keyboard, kinda offset , where as the n52 the are all inline. I really do miss the dpad too tho. With the pro gamer i can insta select anything in 3 toolbars , i use the mouse for the rest.
    edit .. I personaly think the progamer is built better , I found my n52 was cheaper and the keys wore you quicker, + the pro gamer has flashy blue red and green lights !
    Last edited by Mudcnd; 10-20-2007 at 12:01 PM. Reason: added stuff

  14. #14
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    I use an XBox360 controller for DDO, in conjunction with my mouse and keyboard when needed (mouse for some menu/dialogue selections, etc...and keyboard for typing in party/guild chat).

    I auditioned a few others (Logitech PS-2 style, etc) but found the XBox360 one to work best for me.

    It is a little tricky when playing a caster, tho, as I find myself limiting my offensive spells (ie, ones that i would use as an attack - not buffs, and not setups like web/firewall, etc...as those can be chosen and/or targeted with my mouse...just clicking on spell icon). As far as offensive spells (like scorching ray, MM, PK, etc), I usually have to trim it down to 3 or 4 that I will be able to hit using the gamepad, without have to switch them again....per dungeon, setting, instance, room, etc.

    But, for melee types (which is what I play the most), the gamepad is the only way for me.

    I just suq at the keyboard for these games, and have much more of a console gaming background, tho....so not for everyone, that's for sure.
    Last edited by yoyorobbo; 10-20-2007 at 01:39 PM.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Geonis's Avatar
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    I use a $12 gamepad I got at EB Games.

    It is identical to a Playstaion 2 controller (I think it's a Logitech).

    With the correct setup, it has controls to move, look, attack, jump, target nearest enemy, and control 2 full hotbars.

    I use it on my Sorceror with no issues, I simply put the long duration buffs on the keyboard number pad.

    I use the gamepad with all my characters, a TWF Pally, a Nuking Sorc, a Ranged Bard, a TWF Ranger, a Casting Cleric, a TWF Bard, and a Barb.

    The only one that is kind of difficult is the Cleric, since there is no way to cycle through party members, so you have to use F1-F6. I simply put Heal and Mass CSW on the controller for right hand use and use my left hand to cycle through the party.
    Hi, I play Generic Fantasy RPG Online, formerly known as DDO.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    With most of my characters having 10 hotbars loaded with clickies, spells, weapons, equipment potions, wands, abilities etc. which I actively use .. I could never seriously entertain using a gamepad.

    Also for a Cleric my own experience is that is was faster and more accurate to use the mouse to click on the red bar going down for healing. (I also happen to use F1-F6 consistently across all characters for emergency things like pots and abilities like Diplomacy).

  17. #17
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    Only sad part with Nostromo is they have refused to release 64-bit drivers for the last 2 years and have no plans on ever doing so.

  18. #18
    Community Member fleetsbane's Avatar
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    i was at gencon and tried a new board by ideazon and loved it, i am going to get it for xmass (from myself.. lol) they had it so up so you could just click on the preprogramed game key map for whichever game you where going to paly at that time, including DDO..
    http://www.ideazon.com/us/products/mercstealth.asp
    here is the link
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  19. #19
    Hall of Famer & Hero DoctorWhofan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlameCandida View Post
    I use a Merc keyboard ( http://www.ideazon.com/us/products/m...ngkeyboard.asp ) with an integrated gamepad. I have my number-pad (right side of keyboard) hotkeyed with 1 as select mob, 3 as attack, 4 as select object, and 5 as interact. I still use my mouse, but only for buying/selling and interacting with NPCs. For some reason I'm more comfortable spamming Num 3 when attacking instead of my right mouse-button.

    I play mostly fighters/rogues, so I don't have to worry about spells. I've been wanting to roll a mage and a null-specced cleric, but the only thing holding me back is not knowing how I'd set up the keyboard. I'm really not a twitch gamer, so I don't know how I'd keep track of dozens of spells (as opposed to a few weapons). How do you spell-slingers have your keyboards set up?
    I'm left handed. So I have to release the mouse to cast spells with the number keys. Or point and click.
    +The Goddess of Tempest's Spine+Merc's Only, THELANIS: List is here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...94#post2798094 LEGIONNAIRE /Salute to Rameses, He has RETURNED!

  20. #20
    Community Member GlassCannon's Avatar
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    Is superior. I and many others always outperform people using gamepads, and generally die when the Cleric is using one(as does the rest of the party).

    The mouse is the best for aiming, but in DDO we're not required to play like Quake, so I prefer to let the system worry about where I am pointed while I worry about where the monsters are, where my fellows are, what buffs I have, what spell to use where, where the center of the monster mob is, how much damage I am dealing, how much mana I am using, who needs a heal or to have something pulled off of them, what items I have equipped atm, etc.

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