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  1. #1

    Default The Inevitable (A build by request)

    From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread

    Build Name: The Inevitable
    Author: Sigfried Trent
    Requester: Rdoubt
    Last Updated: 07/07/10

    Key Words [Undead, Wizard, Warforged]

    Objectives
    The request was for the best build possible for destroying undead. At the time I came up with a super healing clerc designed to “heal” the undead. It was a concept, one I hadn’t had much experience trying out. I think ultimately it didn’t live up to the promise. So for round 2 I have something totally different.

    Design
    Firewall is easily the best anti-undead spell all around so I started with the idea for a fire damage wizard. But I needed “more” so I got to thinking about how to give them some melee ability against the dead. One level of rangers seemed nice for the favored enemy status and getting sprint boost is always nice.

    To round out the combat I needed another combat class. Fighter sounded pretty good but I didn’t actually need a ton of feats and undead require both slashing and blunt weapons so weapon prof and spec weren’t looking so good. Paladin offered immunity to fear, some saves, and access to KOTC which still seems to do extra damage to undead (although that is not in the description).

    For race, warforged was an easy pick for its immunities to a number of effects undead like to use and its partiality to two handed weapons which were the easy way to go for a battle wizard. And of course self healing which is excelent. And as icing it fit the name of the original build, the inevitable, quite well.

    The final build should be quite well suited to smashing the undead hordes, although it likely has trouble hitting on Epic difficulty. Still, firewall remains effective against undead pretty much all the time. A somewhat shallow mana pool is the largest weakness here so this is a caster that should pick and choose when to cast carefully.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
    (6 Paladin \ 1 Ranger \ 13 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 292
    Spell Points: 950 
    BAB: 13\13\18\23
    Fortitude: 19
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity             8                    10
    Constitution         16                    19
    Intelligence         16                    20
    Wisdom                6                     8
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                    10
    Bluff                 1                     2
    Concentration         7                    27
    Diplomacy             1                     2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                     2
    Heal                 -2                    -1
    Hide                  3                     4
    Intimidate            1                     2
    Jump                  7                    16
    Listen               -2                    -1
    Move Silently         3                     4
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                5                    16
    Search                3                     5
    Spot                  2                    20
    Swim                  3                     6
    Tumble                1                     2
    Use Magic Device      3                    13
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Hide (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Repair (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking I
    
    
    Level 2 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I
    
    
    Level 3 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
    Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I
    
    
    Level 4 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
    Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening I
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
    
    
    Level 5 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 6 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
    
    
    Level 7 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
    
    
    Level 8 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
    Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
    
    
    Level 9 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
    Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I
    
    
    Level 10 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
    Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II
    
    
    Level 11 (Wizard)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
    Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation III
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
    
    
    Level 18 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
    
    
    Level 19 (Wizard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III
    
    
    Level 20 (Wizard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Repair (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
    Play
    Being undead specced, doing undead based quests is a good idea. Certainly you will fair better against them than most other foes. Even when the walking dead are not around, the build makes a decent buffing and fighting wizard. Try not to play tank though, your armor is paper thin and while you can heal yourself, your mana will dry up quickly doing so. Blur and displacement are key to survival.

    Variations
    You could trade out the paladin levels for fighter or more ranger, or you could change the prestige enhancement in paladin for hunter of the dead for more flavor but likely less damage. A 28pt version is doable but you need to lower charisma or int to get there.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 07-07-2010 at 09:54 AM.
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  2. #2
    Founder PurdueDave's Avatar
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    Note that cureX and heal are conjuration spells, not necromancy spells like inflictX and harm.

  3. #3
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Thanks Sig! This one was my request.

    I was leaning at cleric, with maybe cleric 12/pali2, but had not decided. This looks like a fun build. I had not thought about max and empower on the healing spells. Cool thought.

    Question on the necro focus. Should it be changed or dropped reference CureX being conjuration? Any reason to take spell focus on your heals (i.e. do the undead get a save versus them)? Also, what spell(s) are we maxing by focusing on necro?

    The divine power of a god imbues the caster with power and skill in combat, granting a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, 1 temporary hit point per cast level, and a base attack bonus equal to a fighter of the same level. So this would up the BAB to 14 right? (And add to-hit up to +3 depending on what str item was being worn?)

    What is divine might? Are you meaning divine power and adding the +4 bab and +3 str?

    Last question for now: Would 2 levels of pali help or hurt the build? Big saves boost, maybe +1 bab (but that is hidden assuming divine power), at the cost of level 7 spells. Are undead types slinging many things needing high saves these days?

    Note: As a human, drop cleric wis3 for human adapt: wis. Saves 2 or 4 actions points.
    Last edited by redoubt; 10-04-2007 at 01:32 PM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurdueDave View Post
    Note that cureX and heal are conjuration spells, not necromancy spells like inflictX and harm.
    Thanks, missed that detail, I had though cures were necromancy for some reason or another. To bad that... I like necromancy focus :<

    But as the ultimate undead killer I must stick to theme!

    BTW: pondering the sillyness of this build I actualy think a necro harm/heal cleric witht he same spell tricks but perhaps without the turning tricks would make a truly formitable character. The damage is really astounding on harm and cause serious mass, and you get amazing healing in the bargin. And pretty much any cleric can spec out that way if they are willing to use the feats for it. I'm considering switching my drow pirest over to this model.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Thanks Sig! This one was my request. .
    My pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Question on the necro focus. Should it be changed or dropped reference CureX being conjuration? Any reason to take spell focus on your heals (i.e. do the undead get a save versus them)? Also, what spell(s) are we maxing by focusing on necro?
    Harm and heal spells do have a save when you take damage from them but not when you are healed by them. So spell focus does help you do full damage. That is what I was after but I failed to actualy look at the spell type for heal, somehow I though it was necromancy (possibly because raise dead is, not sure).

    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    What is divine might? Are you meaning divine power and adding the +4 bab and +3 str?
    Doh! Ya, I've done that on a few builds, mix up my spell names. Divine Might is a similar spell, makes you big and gives +6 strength and some other stuff. Its in PnP and not in DDO but I get them mixed in my head since I play a lot of both. I'll fix it to say divine power.

    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Last question for now: Would 2 levels of pali help or hurt the build? Big saves boost, maybe +1 bab (but that is hidden assuming divine power), at the cost of level 7 spells. Are undead types slinging many things needing high saves these days??
    It really wouldn't hurt your DC at all, just spell penetration but cures and harms arn't effected by those. Cure serious mass is pretty nifty, but you can certainly live without it. I did a pretty min/max appraoch to get "ultimate" status but if I were actualy to make the character I would probably take a level of paladin. I purposly chose lawful good for the alignment becasause I'd probably want to take paladin sooner or later. It doesn't add much to destroying undead, but it does make for much better defenses.. and I'm thinking this character might draw a wee bit of agro!

    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Note: As a human, drop cleric wis3 for human adapt: wis. Saves 2 or 4 actions points.
    Ahh but I bought both!
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  6. #6

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    Empower Spell and Maximize do Not help HEAL.....

    If youwant to Maximize and Empower a Spell to Wipe out Undead.. Use Blade Barrier.... A Pure Cleric, WIth Superior Potency 6, Greater Arcane Lore, Empower and Max can seel lots of littel red numbers in the 400-600 point range against undead.... Its quite awe inspireing
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  7. #7
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post

    Ahh but I bought both!
    So you did... silly me.

  8. #8
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Conjuration would also boost comet fall, and others I'm sure.

    I was with you on the necro focus. Seemed to kinda go with the build, and backs up destruction if you go that route.

    Do undead have good will saves? (Heal/inflict are will save spells.)

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Conjuration would also boost comet fall, and others I'm sure.

    I was with you on the necro focus. Seemed to kinda go with the build, and backs up destruction if you go that route.

    Do undead have good will saves? (Heal/inflict are will save spells.)
    Yes, they genearlly have pretty good will saves.... Expecially the named undead in the orchard and preraid quests.

    They, however, genearlly have pretty poor reflex saves.
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  10. #10
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Empower Spell and Maximize do Not help HEAL.....

    If youwant to Maximize and Empower a Spell to Wipe out Undead.. Use Blade Barrier.... A Pure Cleric, WIth Superior Potency 6, Greater Arcane Lore, Empower and Max can seel lots of littel red numbers in the 400-600 point range against undead.... Its quite awe inspireing
    Cleric in a holy frenzy runs into a large undead filled room. Holy energy halts the undead and makes some begin to flee... A blade barrier rises around the holy warrior. Next a blinding flash of divine lights stirs the halted and feared undead to run back at the cleric, shredding themselves on the magical blades. Mass heals and more divine light further damage the unholy beasts. Another turn and the damned run away through the barrier only to be blasted again by holy light to return yet again through the magical blades...

    Could be fun!

    (or it could be massive aggro and a quick death... )

  11. #11
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post
    Healing Damage
    Average Base X 1.4 (Life Magic) X 1.5 (Superior Potency) X 1.5 (Empower healing) X 1.5 (Empower) X 2 (Maximize) = total base damage X 2.75 (Critical) = total crit damage
    I have a question about how the metamagics add up. (Criticals are separate.)

    Is it

    A) base x 1.4 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 = base x 9.45
    ex: cure light 1d8+5 (call it 10) so 10 x 9.45 = 94.5

    or

    B) base + (base x .4) + (base x .5) + (base x .5) + (base x .5) + (base x 1) = (can't remember how to do that math atm.)
    ex: 10 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 10 = 39

    I think it is A, but I want to be sure. That is a pretty rocking modifier if it is!

    Thanks.

    ps. if I'm following it correctly that makes a cure mod 2d8+10 = 19x9.45 = 179.55 before a crit!
    Last edited by redoubt; 10-08-2007 at 03:34 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    I have a question about how the metamagics add up. (Criticals are separate.)

    Is it

    A) base x 1.4 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 = base x 9.45
    ex: cure light 1d8+5 (call it 10) so 10 x 9.45 = 94.5

    or

    B) base + (base x .4) + (base x .5) + (base x .5) + (base x .5) + (base x 1) = (can't remember how to do that math atm.)
    ex: 10 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 10 = 39

    I think it is A, but I want to be sure. That is a pretty rocking modifier if it is!

    Thanks.

    ps. if I'm following it correctly that makes a cure mod 2d8+10 = 19x9.45 = 179.55 before a crit!
    yes, you could hit s Cure Mod for 179Points.... FOr 65 Spell Points...

    Or you could cast a HEAL for 35 Spel Points that hits for 190+ Points With just the ENH Line.....

    As far as how it adds up its..

    (Damage +40%ENH) + (Damage +50% Potency) +(Damage +50%Empower) + (Daamagex2 Maximize)
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  13. #13
    Community Member Mad_Bombardier's Avatar
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    Actually, it's:
    C) Base * (1+.4+.5) * (1+.5+.5+1) = 5.7x Base with x2.75 (crit) = 15.675x Base.
    Metamagics are multiplied by static boost, and multiplied by crits. So, you get more than a strictly additive system.

    So, you can metamagic Cure Light Wounds and get 74 HP (203 HP with max crit) for 60 SP.
    Or, you can metamagic Cure Moderate Wounds and get 148 HP (407 HP with max crit) for 65 SP.
    Last edited by Mad_Bombardier; 10-08-2007 at 04:25 PM.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier View Post
    Actually, it's:
    C) Base * (1+.4+.5) * (1+.5+.5+1) = 5.7x Base with x2.75 (crit) = 15.675x Base.
    Metamagics are multiplied by static boost, and multiplied by crits. So, you get more than a strictly additive system.

    So, you can metamagic Cure Light Wounds and get 74 HP (203 HP with max crit) for 60 SP.
    Or, you can metamagic Cure Moderate Wounds and get 148 HP (407 HP with max crit) for 65 SP.
    Cool, I just based my formula off of what my HEAL DOes.. Since its a Static Base, it was the only qway for me to know for sure.. Unfortunatly, MAx and EMP donet effect it so I couldnt test those..
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  15. #15
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    From the name, I thought this would be a warforged cleric.
    My Videos Shadow Mage (ok, it's a build now)
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  16. #16
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier View Post
    Actually, it's:
    C) Base * (1+.4+.5) * (1+.5+.5+1) = 5.7x Base with x2.75 (crit) = 15.675x Base.
    Metamagics are multiplied by static boost, and multiplied by crits. So, you get more than a strictly additive system.

    So, you can metamagic Cure Light Wounds and get 74 HP (203 HP with max crit) for 60 SP.
    Or, you can metamagic Cure Moderate Wounds and get 148 HP (407 HP with max crit) for 65 SP.
    base * (1+.4(heal enhancements)+.5(potency)) * (1+.5(emp heal)+.5(emp spell)+1(max spell))

    That right? Heal enhancements and potency add together. Emp/emp/max add together. Multiply the two group together for final muliplier.

  17. #17
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    Anyone ever play around with using searing light much? I don't have the enhancements set up for it right now but my 8/1 Cleric/Pal is averaging 70-80 a hit on undead and in the mid 100's against vamps.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Mad_Bombardier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    base * [1(base)+.4(heal enhancements)+.5(potency)] * [1(base)+.5(emp heal)+.5(emp spell)+1(max spell)] * [1.5(base)+.75(crit enhance)+.5(SupLore)]

    That right? Heal enhancements and potency add together. Emp/emp/max add together. Multiply the two group together for final multiplier.
    Yup! Spell crits added in orange, pumpkiny goodness.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hvymetal View Post
    Anyone ever play around with using searing light much? I don't have the enhancements set up for it right now but my 8/1 Cleric/Pal is averaging 70-80 a hit on undead and in the mid 100's against vamps.
    Searing Light is fun. It has No Save and can be enhanced to crit for 400ish points. Against Live Opponants....

    Its the Clerical PvP Secret Weapon..... HARM+Searing Light = Dead.
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸A R C H A N G E L S °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸
    Thelanis

    Alandael ~ Allendale ~ iForged ~ Roba ~ Sylon ~ Pokah ~ Keyanu ~ Wreckoning
    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    We don't envision starting players with Starter Gear and zero knowledge playing on Hard or Elite.
    Sev~

  20. #20
    Founder Hvymetal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Searing Light is fun. It has No Save and can be enhanced to crit for 400ish points. Against Live Opponants....

    Its the Clerical PvP Secret Weapon..... HARM+Searing Light = Dead.
    Aye, I was just wondering how it would do maxed out for the undead hunting job? Seems to work pretty darn well for me not even maxed in enhancements or with gear for a realativly cheap cost in spell points.
    R.I.P. E.G.G. 3/4/08

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