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  1. #1

    Default Dwarven Combat Rogue (A build by request)

    From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread

    Build Name: Baxe Stabber
    Author: Sigfried Trent
    Requester: Rei Half Elven
    Last Updated:07/27/10

    Key Words [Dwarf, Rogue, TWF, UMD, Defense]

    Objectives
    The request was for a dwarven version of a Drow Paladin/Fighter/Rogue build I did at some point. Dwarf and Drow are pretty far apart in strengths and the same build just didn’t work as it used stats Drow get bonuses for quite heavily. The idea of the thing was a trap capable evasion character with strong all around defenses.

    Design
    The basic idea with these is a character that is hard to kill from any angle and which can deliver a reasonable amount of DPS as well as serving as a trapper and support character for the party. The paladin powers saves and AC while rogue provides skills, evasion, and DPS. Fighter glues the combat together providing feats and extra damage as well as boosting average hit points. Its a build that trades off some DPS for durability when compared to pure rogues.

    Since fighter and paladin are low skill and all cross class with trapping and UMD we need to either crank int or have only a few levels of each. On this build I went for the few levels approach. Just enough paladin to get a few save bumps and just enough fighter to get weapon spec. Rogue assassin dominates the rest of the build.

    The final outcome is about as promised. Saves are stellar and HP and AC have good levels for general survivability. DPS is in the second tier range and rogue skills are all quite decent as is UMD.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
    (4 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 13 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 330
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    22
    Dexterity            15                    18
    Constitution         16                    20
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             12                    15
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                    18
    Bluff                 1                     6
    Concentration         3                     5
    Diplomacy             1                     2
    Disable Device        5                    26
    Haggle                5                    25
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  2                    10
    Intimidate            1                     2
    Jump                  6                    20
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently         2                    10
    Open Lock             6                    27
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                5                    28
    Spot                  3                    23
    Swim                  2                     6
    Tumble                6                     8
    Use Magic Device      5                    28
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Search I
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
    Play
    Like many good solid skirmish type builds this requires not special technique. Try to get sneak attack damage whenever possible to maximize DPS, and don’t pretend to be a full tank. Carry scrolls for buffing/healing and the gear you need to do traps. Casters and traps should be no obstacle for you.

    Variations
    This is hard to do with 28pts but its possible. The UMD Focus could be swapped for something else like Combat Expertise or Stunning Blow to add a different spin on the basic build.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 07-27-2010 at 06:57 PM.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  2. #2

    Default

    I don't understand why you took the Paladin level at all.

    For the Wand use and smidgeon of AC and Saves from the aura?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to just go ahead and splash a bit of Ranger for the Wand use? If you did two levels of Ranger that would get you wand use, a pile of skills, and free up a feat.

    Stopping at Paladin 1 only really makes sense to me on Clerics.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Girevik View Post
    I don't understand why you took the Paladin level at all.

    For the Wand use and smidgeon of AC and Saves from the aura?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to just go ahead and splash a bit of Ranger for the Wand use? If you did two levels of Ranger that would get you wand use, a pile of skills, and free up a feat.
    Its getting me Wand Use, 1 AC, 1 All Save, 10hp, 1 Bab, 2 Fort, 2 skills
    Ranger 1 gets me Wand use, 6 skills, 2 fort, 2 reflex, Bow Str, 8HP

    It's a fairly even split but I didn't much care about bow use on this one and will was my weak save area. It also lets you take more paladin later if you realy want to go for palladin 3 or 2.

    Ranger 2 is a pretty good pick, although 2 ranger means I need to cut either a fighter level (loosing fighters str 2 and and breaking even on the TWF feats), or a rogue level and loose some sneak attack. If you want to use bows I think the Ranger 2/Fighter 6/Rogue 6 would be compelling, although it is even more of a departure from the build the requester gave me as a guide than this one already is. If you want the 1pt of AC over the bow use, then the paladin is superior as you get more AC and HP out of it. Skills arn't especialy tight on this one so that's mostly moot.

    Although if you really want ranged and TWF then Ranger 11 Rogue 3 is probably better than Fighter / Rogue / Ranger as you get a lot more freedom with your stats. You could actualy pull off better UMD that way and get some decent ranger spells to boot. Rogue skills might be a tad weaker because you can't get Way of the Mechanic in there, but you could add stealth and/or get away with less Int and more Con or the like because you have a bit more total skill points.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  4. #4
    Community Member Wildseed's Avatar
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    Default Thanks

    I will definitely try this build and might tweak it so i get the paladin 3 <is SO used to fear immunity>

  5. #5
    Community Member schroebj13's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent;

    [COLOR=lime
    Fort Save:[/COLOR] Amazing (30+)
    Reflex Save: Great (25+)
    Will Save: Excellent (20+).[/FONT]
    I feel stupid for asking, but how do you come up with these numbers. I put the build into the character builder and got

    Fort = 12
    Reflex = 12
    Will = 7

    If I need to buff or item up, I need to know this to reach those kinds of saves.

    Thanks

  6. #6

    Default

    Almost any character can buff their saves into the 15-20 range at level 14. I tend to do some basic adding to what the calculator spits out and list a general range since buffs vary.

    Here is the break down for this one....

    Class Base
    Fortitude:9
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 4

    Stats (this includes item bonuses and the like to these stats)
    Con: 6
    Dex: 6
    Will: 3

    Dwarven Spell Defense (most saving throws you make in ddo are spells so I usualy list it in the save calculation, mostly just poison and trap reflex saves are not spells, but dwarves get a poison bonus and I don't gernealy include trap sense so it evens out somewhat)
    All: 5

    Resistance Item (I usualy go wtih +4 although +5 is available on a number of randomand fixed items)
    All: 4

    Greater Heroism: (This character can't cast it but it is common to include GH into calculations for builds since it is so ubiquitious in most groups and avalable from a mid level fixed item.)
    All: 4

    Paladin Aura
    All: 1

    So that gives us...
    Fortitude:29
    Reflex: 29 (25 for traps)
    Will: 22

    So I may have oversold Fort a tiny bit but not much.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  7. #7
    Community Member schroebj13's Avatar
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    Default Thanks you

    I can follow that logic, thank you

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