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  1. #1

    Default The Kitchen Sink (A build by request)

    From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread

    Build Name: The Kitchen Sink
    Author: Sigfried Trent
    Requester: Kalanth
    Last Updated:06/23/10

    Key Words [TWF, Elf, Longsword, Ranged, Rapier]

    Objectives
    The requester specifically wanted at least three levels in fighter, paladin and ranger and wanted to use both longswords and piercing weapons well. They specifically wanted two weapon fighting. Human was preferred but not required. My original take on this was a human, but the responders liked elf better and with the expanded level cap and a few other factors I've come around and I like the elf approach. I've taken this a little farther and made it kind of a meditation on all things elf.

    Design
    I'm using ranger as the base of the build, taking advantage of the free feats for TWF and Ranged combat. Early on, paladin provides save boosts and a bit of extra healing. Around level 8, fighter shows up to fill out improved critical feats for all 3 elven weapons (longbow, rapier, and longsword). Later paladin finishes out the build, adding divine sovereignty, minor smiting and defensive benefits. DPS isn't quite top tier, but its close to it and comes in 3 different flavors.

    Towards the end of the build it became apparent I could squeeze in arcane archer as well. It comes very late in the build and makes for a nice 3 way specialization for the build, giving excellent damage with both slashing, piercing, and ranged weapons. Defenses are better rounded than I expected. Saves are solid and even AC is fairly reasonable if you focus on it. Evasion should prove very useful, although it takes a while to get it. Hit points arn't amazing, but they are right around the minimum for such a tank, topping out in the low 400s with typical gear.


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
    (3 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 11 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 320
    Spell Points: 290 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 22
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            16                    22
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         10                    12
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             12                    15
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               5                    16
    Bluff                 1                     2
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy             1                     2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                     2
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  7                    21
    Intimidate            1                     2
    Jump                  7                    28
    Listen               -1                     2
    Move Silently         7                    19
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     1
    Search                0                     3
    Spot                  3                    20
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                4                     7
    Use Magic Device      2                    13
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1.5)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+3)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Jump (+3)
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II
    Play
    For the most part this plays like a typical ranger although you would do a bit more weapon swapping than most.

    Variations
    28pt versions of this are quite possible if a bit challenging. You can take points from dex, since ranger is doing all the feat qualifying, but you don’t get much there. Wisdom can also drop if you don’t mind having to equip a wisdom bonus item for casting. Buffs aren’t essential to the build but they are certainly helpful.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 06-23-2010 at 10:27 AM.
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  2. #2
    Dragonmark of Making Kalanth's Avatar
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    Well done sir. When I created the character in game I dropped the Wisdom to 8 and rose the Dex to 14, figuring I would gun for items to boost the Wisdom into a castable range. Otherwise you managed to incorperate things I honestly had not thought of and I am quite pleased with the result.

  3. #3
    Community Member spifflove's Avatar
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    Going elf would seem like a better choice given the equivalent of plus 4 stats when using longsword and longbow.

  4. #4
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    I would also drop 1 lvl of fighter for ranger so as to get the Barkskin spell.
    No! You can't GREASE a Beholder!!

  5. #5
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    STR 16 – DEX 12 – CON 14 – INT 14 – WIS 10 – CHA 12

    I would be tempted to try and hit 16 dex so you could take GTWF as a feat. If you dropped Con to 12 that would allow it with a +1 tome and you have GTWF. That is such a huge bump in DPS it would be a shame to miss it, I personally would trade the 14 hit points for it.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by spifflove View Post
    Going elf would seem like a better choice given the equivalent of plus 4 stats when using longsword and longbow.
    I considered it and about half finished an elven version, but honestly it just didn't work out. You don't actualy get more stat points unless you want to lower Con and I really didn't as this build is right on the border HP wise for what it is doing. Elf also didn't get as many skill points and made it so I couldn't include a strong skill component to the build. Because it couldn't really specilize elf tended to decrease its abbility to generalize well. No human versatility cut into my abbility to access UMD in any meaningfull way not to mention takes away its burst damage abbility (although you do get more consistant damage with longsword/rapier). Finaly, human could add Str, and Elf gets dex, and I didn't really need/want a lot of dex. I just shot for the min dex to fill out Mithral Plate at level 14. Going for heavy armor saved the build points I needed to get int up to CE/Skills levle and keep a decent con and cha. I though Elf just gave up too many other features for the longsword bonus and railroaded me into a less "interesting build" and instead I got a wattered down Elf Rapier build. Basicaly the other requirements would have just made it a so-so elf build and if it is only so-so why go that direction?
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddok View Post
    I would also drop 1 lvl of fighter for ranger so as to get the Barkskin spell.
    It isn't that easy . Fighter 4 is needed for toughness 2 so that looses you 10HP. Its also needed for Repair 2 which gets me the iron dogs, which while not especialy strong, greatly add to the What the Heck? factor of the build and that was a big goal here. Finaly it takes away the two second level tactics enhancements. On the ranger side pretty much all you get is the second level spell, and this build doesn't exactly have scads of spell points.

    This was a tough tough build to make. The requriements really limited what you could do with it.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by EinarMal View Post
    STR 16 – DEX 12 – CON 14 – INT 14 – WIS 10 – CHA 12

    I would be tempted to try and hit 16 dex so you could take GTWF as a feat. If you dropped Con to 12 that would allow it with a +1 tome and you have GTWF. That is such a huge bump in DPS it would be a shame to miss it, I personally would trade the 14 hit points for it.
    It's not an elf so you would need to take con to 8 in order to get dex to 16, or con to 10 and wisdom to 8. GTWF is pretty great, but in the end I couldn't really make it work out and not hammer some other stat I needed. My though was that as the cap goes up you would eventualy go to...

    Ranger 11
    Paladin 3
    Fighter 6

    And just pick up GTWF with ranger levels eventualy.

    I did work on an elf version that hat GTWF but it just didn't have anything very unique about it and felt like a crippled version of a better build.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 09-13-2007 at 01:10 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post
    It's not an elf so you would need to take con to 8 in order to get dex to 16, or con to 10 and wisdom to 8. GTWF is pretty great, but in the end I couldn't really make it work out and not hammer some other stat I needed. My though was that as the cap goes up you would eventualy go to...

    Ranger 11
    Paladin 4
    Fighter 6

    And just pick up GTWF with ranger levels eventualy.

    I did work on an elf version that hat GTWF but it just didn't have anything very unique about it and felt like a crippled version of a better build.
    Sorry, saw the elf suggestion and had elf on the brain! You got 21 levels there, but no big deal Ranger 11 eventually. That is just a long time to wait given the current pace of development. I would rather drop combat expertise and lower int to get GTWF as well.

    This is kind of a wierd build request though! The Ranger/Paladin I get but the fighter seems kind of added on because you have to.

  10. #10
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    14, 16, 12, 14, 8 ,12

    Elf Stats.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydril View Post
    14, 16, 12, 14, 8 ,12

    Elf Stats.
    That's about what I was working with except I didn't have the int on the elf build and maintained 16 str and 10 con. I tried working wtih the shadow dragon marks.. but it just seemed to be at odds with the class picks and felt like a bad version of a finesse TWF build.
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  12. #12
    Founder Lifespawn's Avatar
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    how about this


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.65
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 14 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
    (4 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 7 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 229
    Spell Points: 75 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 14)
    Strength             16                    20
    Dexterity            14                    16
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom               10                    10
    Charisma             13                    15
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
    Balance               4                    14
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy             2                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                  4                     4
    Hide                  2                     3
    Intimidate            2                     2
    Jump                  7                    14
    Listen                0                     0
    Move Silently         2                     3
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     0
    Search                0                     2
    Spot                  4                    13
    Swim                  3                    11
    Tumble                4                     7
    Use Magic Device      4                    13
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness III
    Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Fernando has yet to even suggest a nerf of anything.
    Oh and by the way (referring to your sig), we aren't nerfing the Torc.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifespawn View Post
    how about this
    Looks like a very solid build Lifespawn. It doesn't quite match up to all the aspects of the request but all in all it is probably more effective. One of the hard things about the requests sometimes is the requirements work against some of the more synergistic ways of building characters, but that is also what makes it more fun sometimes than just trying to optimize
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  14. #14
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    sry i'm not understanding as far as i can tell he asked for longsword and piercing to be used the soverign host enhancment for longswords and atleast 3 lvls of fighter ranger pally i do think i covered all of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Fernando has yet to even suggest a nerf of anything.
    Oh and by the way (referring to your sig), we aren't nerfing the Torc.

  15. #15
    Dragonmark of Making Kalanth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifespawn View Post
    sry i'm not understanding as far as i can tell he asked for longsword and piercing to be used the soverign host enhancment for longswords and atleast 3 lvls of fighter ranger pally i do think i covered all of them.
    Yep, I would say you did. Below are the exact requirements of the build, and you managed to hit them just fine in the dwarf. It would feel like walking the new trend with that race, but even still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalanth
    Take all three of these following classes:

    Paladin, Fighter, Ranger

    Each has to have a minimum of 3 levels and the character needs to be TWF built. In addition, the character is required to incorperate the Longsword into the build to take advantage of the Sovreign Host enhancement. Prefered conclusion would be a focus in both Slashing and Piercing, but that is able to be taken out if it does not sute the build.

    Race: Human prefered, any is fine (Just trying to find something that will have me finally breaking away from Warforged).

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifespawn View Post
    sry i'm not understanding as far as i can tell he asked for longsword and piercing to be used the soverign host enhancment for longswords and atleast 3 lvls of fighter ranger pally i do think i covered all of them.
    Sorry about that. I thing the fact it was dwarf made me miss the soveirgn host enhancement. It also seems that the original requester gives it his seal of approval. And you can't really do any better than that.
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  17. #17
    Dragonmark of Making Kalanth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post
    Sorry about that. I thing the fact it was dwarf made me miss the soveirgn host enhancement. It also seems that the original requester gives it his seal of approval. And you can't really do any better than that.
    I am curious if maybe you missed it as you played with Dwarf, because the enhancement is there. However, in the long run, Dwarf is like Elf in that they would be better off with a different weapon.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalanth View Post
    I am curious if maybe you missed it as you played with Dwarf, because the enhancement is there. However, in the long run, Dwarf is like Elf in that they would be better off with a different weapon.
    I think I was just reading in a hurry and sort of seeing what I expected to see with a dwarf that takes slashing feats. Generaly every dwarf uses dwarven axes as their primary weapon of choice unless they are totaly dex based (and I have seen a few of those).

    My only critique from a design stand point is that the build offered plays agaisnt one of the strengths of Dwarf as a combat character (Dwarven Axe and Axe Enhancments) so it's kind of like you are missing out on potential abbility for the sake of the requirements. That's how I was feeling about elf versions of the build as you note. But with dwarves the extra con and great enhancements really can be decent justifications all on their own, as could a dex based build using elf. I'm always looking for "synergies" in builds, different choices that kind of add up to the end goal whatever it may be.

    It this build I was really focused on having some enhancements or feats you don't see very often or at least dont see combined very often. Its hard since most of the good ideas have already been discovered by someone long before I used them in a build. I'll be the first to put any clever trick someone else comes up with in the request builds. I'm waiting for a good one to use the shadow marks in, I think taking advantage of those for a TWF character is really cool and not something that occured to me.
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  19. #19
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    try a 2 handed elf barbarian/ftr mix and pick up the 2 dragonmarks a dps machine that can displace themselfs is handy
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Fernando has yet to even suggest a nerf of anything.
    Oh and by the way (referring to your sig), we aren't nerfing the Torc.

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