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Thread: Saw LotR:O...

  1. #1
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Default Saw LotR:O...

    ... but no DDO.

    I guess the writing is on the wall, huh?
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    no
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    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Ah - so then you saw the DDO display at the convention? Love to know where it was, cause I couldn't find it.
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    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    ... but no DDO.

    I guess the writing is on the wall, huh?
    They swear Quarion will be promoting DDO - see if he at least wears the T-shirt around...

    Anyway, it makes sense for a small company to throw their modest talent pool at the new offering.. most MMOs get most of their new customers when they first come out...

    That said, a little effort by them would easily heighten DDO's profile.. and it is disappointing they don't do more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moorewr View Post
    They swear Quarion will be promoting DDO - see if he at least wears the T-shirt around...

    Anyway, it makes sense for a small company to throw their modest talent pool at the new offering.. most MMOs get most of their new customers when they first come out...

    That said, a little effort by them would easily heighten DDO's profile.. and it is disappointing they don't do more.

    Quarion arrived in Seattle last night attended the LOTRO party and in his words this morning
    Well, we hit our first real snag today. We decided to get up early, so as not to be tardy to our Portland, OR Appointment.

    Lady Luck was not on our side (hopefully this changes before we get to Las Vegas!) as we checked out of the hotel at 5:30am, and hurried to the parking garage where we had parked the car… and was greeted with a locked gate. We had not noticed last evening that the garage does not open until 7am on Saturday’s. YOU MEAN WE COULD HAVE HAD AT LEAST ANOTHER HOUR OF SLEEP? Well, thank Lurlene for citywide wi-fi!

    We’re going to be between 60 and 90 minutes late to all points south today, unfortunately. We apologize for the inconvenience. We’ll try to email all of those who contacted us.
    So they left for Portland at 7am this morning, unless he was promoting DDO at the LOTRO party last night, then no he is not out promoting DDO.
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    Community Member KoboldKiller's Avatar
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    Personally I would rather concentrate on playing the game for however long it lasts. It does not do any good to worry about what Q is or isn't doing. Turbine does not seem interested in pushing DDO at this time so don't worry about it, we cannot change that. Unless you want to go out and pay for your own advertising why stress? Use the forums to post positive things about the game to ring in more players or tell people about it. Yes the forums are for everyone to post what they feel but I see alot of posts about why don't they advertise more and then farther down the forums you find 5 or 6 posts about why I'm leavimg or why this game sucks. Seems counter productive to me. JMHO.
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    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    And Turbine not advertising DDO at a major Con seems productive, KK?
    If this game, which no matter how much I love it seems to be gasping for air, has any hope of survival - it's the influx of new players to help bolster the subscription rate and population. I really don't give the "most game get players when they first come out" argument any weight what so ever since many games that have been out just as long as DDO or longer have a solid pressance at PAX. Guild Wars being just one example.

    To me, the message seems pretty loud and clear. They are focusing on LoTR:O in terms of advertising and spotlight - at least for wide-audiance shows. Yeah, DDO was at GenCon, but that's like shooting fish in a barrel. You know there is going to be a hard-core D&D crowd there. BUT, and I say this from experaince from working at PAX '05 & '06 in the tabletop area - there is a huge D&D crowd at PAX as well. If not WotC would not have a major set up in the Vendor's hall. No, it seems to me that since PAX is a much wider focus event, they chose to trot out the new pony and put DDO out to pasture. Why try to even sway the gamers who show up to play in the D&D events at PAX to even give DDO a shot... they have their WoW clone with hobbits now.

    Also - if there is no DDO at PAX - why even bother having a Meet Up on these forums? So we could all meet up and lament not having the game we chose to back even show at the Con?

    Turbine has put DDO on the bottom shelf. It pains me to say it - and this was the thing that finaly took the veil from my eyes. If the company has no desire to promote it - then the prospects long-terms for this game are pretty bleak. That's not being negative - that's being realistic. I love this game. I just wish Turbine loved it as much as the people who play it.
    Last edited by Memnir; 08-25-2007 at 12:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    And Turbine not advertising DDO at a major Con seems productive, KK?
    If this game, which no matter how much I love it seems to be gasping for air, has any hope of survival - it's the influx of new players to help bolster the subscription rate and population. I really don't give the "most game get players when they first come out" argument any weight what so ever since many games that have been out just as long as DDO or longer have a solid pressance at PAX. Guild Wars being just one example.

    To me, the message seems pretty loud and clear. They are focusing on LoTR:O in terms of advertising and spotlight - at least for wide-audiance shows. Yeah, DDO was at GenCon, but that's like shooting fish in a barrel. You know there is going to be a hard-core D&D crowd there. BUT, and I say this from experaince from working at PAX '05 & '06 in the tabletop area - there is a huge D&D crowd at PAX as well. If not WotC would not have a major set up in the Vendor's hall. No, it seems to me that since PAX is a much wider focus event, they chose to trot out the new pony and put DDO out to pasture. Why try to even sway the gamers who show up to play in the D&D events at PAX to even give DDO a shot... they have their WoW clone with hobbits now.

    Also - if there is no DDO at PAX - why even bother having a Meet Up on these forums? So we could all meet up and lament not having the game we chose to back even show at the Con?

    Turbine has put DDO on the bottom shelf. It pains me to say it - and this was the thing that finaly took the veil from my eyes. If the company has no desire to promote it - then the prospects long-terms for this game are pretty bleak. That's not being negative - that's being realistic. I love this game. I just wish Turbine loved it as much as the people who play it.

    DDO was not even at GenCon Merlask ran the party herself. The one thing that was commented on was that Atari had to do all the marketing and only like to promote new games, perhaps getting Turbine the direct license might change that, but again pure speculation
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    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    My mistake then, and I apologize for it.
    If this is a matter of Atari not wanting to foot the bill for having a show presence, then I cannot fault Turbine beyond putting a DDO guy (Quarion) on a LotR:O publicity tour. Which seems a tad hinky to me, no matter how you slice it.

    However, it still seems to me that not having DDO at a con geared specifically at the target demographic is criminal. It also gets back to my core point that if the people who run the game are letting these sorts of opportunities to try and get new players into the game slide by - it's tantamount to letting the game wither on the vine.

    Not even having the game displayed or promo'd in any capacity has done more to sink my moral than any other single problem this game has suffered. Maybe I'm naive for that. Maybe I've just been a banner-waver for this game for too long that evidence that those in charge don't give a rat's butt has just sucker punched me.

    I'm disheartened. No matter the ultimate cause - DDO is utterly lacking at PAX (and every other con as well, it seems) I see nothing good in that what so ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    My mistake then, and I apologize for it.
    If this is a matter of Atari not wanting to foot the bill for having a show presence, then I cannot fault Turbine beyond putting a DDO guy (Quarion) on a LotR:O publicity tour. Which seems a tad hinky to me, no matter how you slice it.

    However, it still seems to me that not having DDO at a con geared specifically at the target demographic is criminal. It also gets back to my core point that if the people who run the game are letting these sorts of opportunities to try and get new players into the game slide by - it's tantamount to letting the game wither on the vine.

    Not even having the game displayed or promo'd in any capacity has done more to sink my moral than any other single problem this game has suffered. Maybe I'm naive for that. Maybe I've just been a banner-waver for this game for too long that evidence that those in charge don't give a rat's butt has just sucker punched me.

    I'm disheartened. No matter the ultimate cause - DDO is utterly lacking at PAX (and every other con as well, it seems) I see nothing good in that what so ever.
    If I remember from last year DDO was promoted by Turbine at GenCon, so I believe they can do those kinds of things but I think print,internet and producing new discs is Atari. The LOTRO car was stoppingf or LOTRO fans, I'm sure nothing would have stopped Turbine from letting them stop for DDO fans as well. They made a choice to completely ignore DDO's existence on this trip, and at all the Con's. The appearance of Eldurado and Slithe was on their own dime or extremely low key if paid for by Turbine. No booth except for people gathered around Elduarado's laptop at Jillian's with him showing a build of mod 5.
    Last edited by ArkoHighStar; 08-25-2007 at 04:10 PM.
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    Community Member PhoenixFire31's Avatar
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    Here is how my conversation with the Atari guys went at GenCon. Take from it what you will...

    Me: So why did you guys bring these 3 games? (The Witcher, DnD Tactics, NWN Expansion)

    Him: Well, they aren't out yet.

    Me: DnD Tactics has been out for like a month though...

    Him: Well they are more RPG focused.

    Me: Nothing fits that better than DDO though...

    Him: Turbine is in charge of marketing that game, not us.

    His last statment we know is a load of bull dookie....that is what they were hired for.
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    It's been said before, so no real news. Basically, from what I gathered (speaking with the Turbine marketing rep who was at Gencon, and representatives of WotC), Turbine is unhappy with the current situation with Atari regarding marketing DDO.

    Turbine can market AC as much as it likes, as there is no other company involved. Midway appears to give a lot of leeway in their relationship with LoTRO. Atari on the other hand is a bit problematic. Atari has a licensing agreement with WotC in relation to the marketing and publishing of D&D based video games, and has almost total control.

    Turbine is somewhat at the mercy of Atari right now. This is something they are trying to change. They 'appear' to be in some sort of negotiations with WotC and attempts at negotiations with Atari in regards to the issue (one of the reasons the marketing rep was at Gencon). But at this point, Turbine has very little ability to market DDO on it's own.

    Turbine is trying to change the arrangement to benefit themselves and the game. Meanwhile, they are trying to push LoTRO as hard as they can. Why? All Turbine games help make Turbine money. And whether you'd like to believe it or not, DDO does benefit from LoTRO making money -- each game requests money from a single income fund (LoTRO, DDO, and AC), and the more cash in the fund the more each game can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friar Galanodel View Post
    Meanwhile, they are trying to push LoTRO as hard as they can. Why? All Turbine games help make Turbine money. And whether you'd like to believe it or not, DDO does benefit from LoTRO making money -- each game requests money from a single income fund (LoTRO, DDO, and AC), and the more cash in the fund the more each game can take.
    Friar, not sure how Turbine works but I work in a company composed of scattered branchs' across 3 states, with no branchs' but salesmen responible for orders from Alaska and Hawaii. The only 'pool of corporate cash' is anything aquired after all branchs' have paid for themselves in any month. Don't know what the corporation does with that cash but some is used to pay the loans aquired to make payroll among other things. Basically, each branch has to make enough money to support itself or at the descresion of the owner, it gets closed. Common business sense. If a branch can't support itself revenue wise it's a drain on the entire company since a branch in the 'red' is taking money from the rest of the company which effects other branch's revenue even if they're in the 'black', affects bonus payouts, health insurance prices, perks and whatnot and whofor.

    If, for some wacked-out reason, Turbine allows LOTRO to support DDO long term, they're idiots and only hurting the company more then shutting down DDO.
    This ain't a DOOOOOMMOMOMMM!!11!!1! post, just a reality check. I hate LOTRO, but like DDO and hope it stays around for a few more years. Might hit the level cap by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tober Smiles View Post
    If, for some wacked-out reason, Turbine allows LOTRO to support DDO long term, they're idiots and only hurting the company more then shutting down DDO.
    This ain't a DOOOOOMMOMOMMM!!11!!1! post, just a reality check. I hate LOTRO, but like DDO and hope it stays around for a few more years. Might hit the level cap by then.

    They are all in one building LOTRO and DDO and they swap team members back and forth. They aren't like different divisions or anything.

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    I was disapointed at their PAX showing as well. I don't thinnk it means DDO is going away, but it does indicate it isn't going to be getting a lot of love either.

    I like how Sony and NCsoft promote all thier games as a kind of family, focusing on the new releases but always holding up thier other current offerings in some way shape or form. Turbine is a lot smaller but in past PAX expo's all their games got promoted. This time it was LOTR only.

    LOTR also cleraly gets some heavy dev action. (and deservidly so since its a great license and has lots of players) I think they are getting thier 11th update soon which includes player housing and a new zone. That's 11 updates in what.. 6 months? Updates in DDO have been nice but nothing like that and they seem to be slowing down a bit.

    But all in all it just is what it is... the game can only get as much love as it has success. If it becomes too boring, I'll play something else and look back fondly at the good times I had while it lasted. I did the same with many MMO's before it and shall do so many times to come.
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    Community Member Anastasios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post
    LOTR also cleraly gets some heavy dev action. (and deservidly so since its an EXPENSIVE license and has lots of players who WILL HELP OFFSET THE COST) I think they are getting thier 11th update soon which includes player housing and a new zone. That's 11 updates in what.. 6 months? Updates in DDO have been nice but nothing like that and they seem to be slowing down a bit.
    Just a quick fix
    For the reason that Midway expects alot out of their investments. Dog Atari all you want, they expect alot also. Highly doubtful things are all peachy keen with Atari, and if anything, Atari will never rid their license because of what they know they can make out of it.

    Pretty cut and dry business here, blame Atari for rushing Turbine to release or blame Turbine for not having enough content, it's all the same, something happened on the way to the forum...and we got caught in between. Will it ever work out-my guess, probably not.

    In regards to Kobold Killer's post-I find it very distasteful that this community gets the runaround instead of honesty. Must be very difficult to keep people up to date, no offense but they have done it to themselves in more ways than one.

  17. #17
    Community Member tman's Avatar
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    Default Test for you

    Go to your local software store and look for DDO on the shelves. I went to Bestbuy today and not one DDO box. There was everything else, but no DDO. Sold out maybe? Doubtful...

    I really enjoy this game, but any business saavy person can see there is no investment by Turbine, Atari, WofC, anyone? They haven't even changed out the Searing Lights module advertisement on their header page. I will play it till the shut it down, I really enjoy it, but from a business perspective this is in the decline and Turbine and Co. have moved on to the next project.

    Go test this for yourself and you decide.

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    I am new too game and here is what I have noticed, and being a veteran MMORPGer I can see where this will probably lead.

    First off, the only people who seem willing too help out a noob( and no I don't mean by giving away free gear, just group and answer questions ) are other noobs. Right now with the 10 day free trial I have seen a bunch of people giving the game a try, but most won't continue on due to the lack of community involment.
    I myself asked a question about Platinum and was promptly called a dumbass. Even in the worst moment in my Eq days , I have never had this happen. Which is odd cause the feeling on these forums are so much diffrent then the other forums.
    With that said DDo is far from dead and most MMORPG's don't reach there peak till either the first expansion or after the first year. EQ didn't hit peak till Velious their second expansion, WoW still hasn't peaked but it started the steam roller after thier first year out. DAOC hit its stride after the first year. DDO is almost there with the introduction of a few new races / classes, upping the level ranger, adding more quests, and content making stuff for teh hard core raider, and an AA type system all could make DDO hit its peak shortly after christmas. This is the season that so many new games are out and so many people are burnt out on WoW and are searching for something new a game like this could really prosper.

    As far as LoTR, I played it. Its a fun game and I can understand the push for it , what I don't understand is the lack of any DDO there.

    What I see happening is DDO becoming for a a niche game, much like Eq now is 90% old school raiders. It is a very nice niche that will probably have enough subscribers for a long time too keep it up and running as a lone entinty.
    Once it can not or it starts to deline, they will offer a Turbine pass AlA the Sony pass and let you pay one price to play DnD and LOTR, and what ever else Turbine has under there belts they are about to whip out.

    The basic problem with DDO is it got alot of bad press in alot of important forums before it even came out. No Crafting / no PvP ( or a PvP joke eitehr way ) Just one town, all instance, no killing xp ( this is a myth but its hard to explain it too people who haven't played, no camping a mob, hell even WoW has mob camping. There is more but thats not why I am posting. Actualy I am nto sure why I am posting, I think I have gotten off subject so um bye for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tman View Post
    Go to your local software store and look for DDO on the shelves. I went to Bestbuy today and not one DDO box. There was everything else, but no DDO. Sold out maybe? Doubtful...

    I really enjoy this game, but any business saavy person can see there is no investment by Turbine, Atari, WofC, anyone? They haven't even changed out the Searing Lights module advertisement on their header page. I will play it till the shut it down, I really enjoy it, but from a business perspective this is in the decline and Turbine and Co. have moved on to the next project.

    Go test this for yourself and you decide.
    I foudn it at wal-mart, right along side LOTR and WOW, and WoW TBC, no EQ or EQ2 , or VG, there was however a CoV pack, but as far as MMORPG it was just WoW, DND, LOTR and COV.
    DiDn't go to best buy but I did test the theory. They aren't pushing it like they should but I do not belive they have given up on it. If they ahd they would be putting out an expansipon ever 3 months to try and milk all teh money they can out of it before it bottoms out. Not putting in new content through free patches.

    You want to watch a game that is dying go paly Vanguard for a month. I know I did / Am its sad.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velamos79
    and an AA type system all could make DDO hit its peak shortly after christmas
    Excuse me? This is DDO, based off of Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have an Alternate Advancement system where you can meta-level past your current level with increasing power in various things.

    The argument could be made that DDO's Enhancement System is close to the EQ AA system if you needed a comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velamos79
    What I see happening is DDO becoming for a a niche game
    It is hard to become a niche game when it already is a niche game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velamos79
    First off, the only people who seem willing too help out a noob( and no I don't mean by giving away free gear, just group and answer questions ) are other noobs. Right now with the 10 day free trial I have seen a bunch of people giving the game a try, but most won't continue on due to the lack of community involment.
    Sorry to hear you had a bad experience in your free trial. Sadly, any game with human beings as players will have the full spectrum of human behaviors associated with them, both good and bad. If you do continue on I hope to see you run into a crowd of people that works better for you.
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