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  1. #1

    Default The Danger Mouse (A build by request)

    From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread

    Build Nameanger Mouse
    Author: Sigfried Trent
    Requester: VonBek
    Last Updated: 07/06/10

    Key Words [Halfling, DragonMarks, Tempest, TWF, Solo]

    Objectives
    The request was for a 28pt dex based halfling fighter using the dragonmarks that can solo or play in groups effectively. Playing on dex is pretty natural for halfling builds and pairing that with a dex class helps justify finesse. On the other hand if you are going dex you want to make sure you have a decent AC. And of course with the healing marks its best if you can bump them up somehow.

    The original build was primarily fighter, dipping into ranger for free feats and wizard for the same. This build takes a different tac.

    Design
    This time around I’m taking ranger as the primary class, both for the feats but also because it has healing boosts for the dragonmarks and bonuses to AC. Fighter is a secondary class to give me the feats I need to balance those spent on the dragon marks and I’ve manage to slurp some AC out of stalwart defender. Rogue rounds out the build, primarily to give me decent skills to spend my fairly robust skill points on. Without it you end up looking at taking things like swim before long.

    Since this is 28pts, I took monk off the table, otherwise this would be much more like Exploiter. As it is, feats are tight here and some interesting sacrifices were needed. Dex based led me to a more defense focus so CE and Dodge were key. Tempest was also important and that eats more feats. What I end up forgoing is any improved critical feats which means this build wants to collect keen weapons or Mineral II greensteel.

    The order you quire things is odd here as well. I take fighter early to pick up key feats that have the biggest build impact early on and still get the dragonmarks ASAP. Its not until quite late you have the feats for Tempest and you get Defender at the same time. Level 18 is pretty exciting as a result.

    Thanks to the int needed for CE you have full rogue skills, although they level up somewhat unevenly. You also get full UMD although without a lot of charisma support it will take a while to be useful.

    For a new player, this is a challenging build but its also one you could later greater reincarnate into an exploiter like build after you decide you like the game while giving you most of its benefits without any cash cost.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
    (6 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 290
    Spell Points: 135 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 22
    Will: 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             13                    15
    Dexterity            16                    26
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               10                    10
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    12
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        6                    26
    Haggle                0                     0
    Heal                  1                     3
    Hide                  6                    13
    Intimidate           -1                     3
    Jump                  5                    12
    Listen                0                     2
    Move Silently         7                    14
    Open Lock             7                    20
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                     3
    Search                6                    26
    Spot                  4                    23
    Swim                  1                     2
    Tumble                4                     9
    Use Magic Device      3                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+3)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Repair (+1)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
    Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Rogue Search I
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+3)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
    Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Defense
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+3)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Play
    While it can self heal pretty well, it still takes some skill to play this character since you have a limited amount of healing. Knowing when to go with AC/Combat Exptertise and when to go with DPS/Power Attack is important to figure out and it mostly comes down to: Is my AC protecting me effectively in this quest?

    When solo you will want to take advantage of your ranged skills as anything you kill ranged will not do much damage to you. Up close you are not a DPS powerhouse so take a long term approach to combat, using mobility to avoid attacks and whittling down foes. Weapons with kill or disable effects are often better for you than pure DPS.

    In a group you play a bit different and want to focus on DPS as much as possible, get into flanking position and take advantage of your extra sneak attack damage and accuracy. You may find your heals better spent on others rather than saved for yourself. You are also good at pulling and scouting and of course can do traps for the party.

    Variations
    If you have 32pts and Monk you can make what is essentially a better version of this, cranking up Wis a bit and getting additional AC and another free feat. It will mean you can’t top off rogue skills at the end of the build so you would likely end with ranger rather than fighter or monk just to get what you can out of that.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 07-06-2010 at 06:45 PM.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  2. #2

    Default

    I like it. A friend and I have been batting around several halfling dragonmark-focused builds (in almost all cases, heavily fighter-based, for feat wiggle room). He's ended up going a very similar route, and one thing he is quite happy he did is move the wizard level very early in the build. I'd consider moving that all the way back to level 2, as it's tough to overstate the value of having 4-5 maximized CLW's in your back pocket in the early game. In a party, it's kinda like giving your Cleric an extra 80 supplemental SP, which can be a big deal in levels 3-6. I see you need to pick up Weapon Finesse with that first Fighter level, but maybe move the Wiz level up as early as 3? I see Maximized CLW's as much more valuable in the early game than CE.

    Overall, nice work! I like it.
    The Brotherhood of BYOH--Thelanis: Charged, WF Artificer; Venomshade, Half-Elf Monk; Poxs, Fist of an Angry God; Crash, Pale Monkster

  3. #3
    Community Member VonBek's Avatar
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    Default

    First impression: I had not tried to plan this out, wanting to get a fresh perspective and it looks great to me.

    Two thoughts
    • I can take Dodge twice? OK, I never knew
    &
    • How do I get that least mark of warding at 12?


    Really cool. By chance or experience I feel it will work well with my approach to the game. Many Thanks for the time you put in.
    So, I hear that one day we may get Familiars...
    ....I want a Velociraptor!

  4. #4
    Community Member Quartzite's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VonBek View Post
    [*]How do I get that least mark of warding at 12?
    I'd love to know that, too
    Khalzad - TWF Dwarf Barbarian
    Aubergine - Warforged Tactical Warchanter
    Malakyte - Mark of the Sentinel Human "True" Tank

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonBek View Post
    First impression: I had not tried to plan this out, wanting to get a fresh perspective and it looks great to me.

    Two thoughts
    • I can take Dodge twice? OK, I never knew
    &
    • How do I get that least mark of warding at 12?


    Really cool. By chance or experience I feel it will work well with my approach to the game. Many Thanks for the time you put in.
    Heh, those are coppy-paste errors, I'll clean that up. Been doing a lot of these and that format I have is a bit of a nightmare in MS word with all the markup and such. I'll get it cleaned up. Sadly you can only take dodge once. :> it is listed twice from moving things around in the list trying to get it all to fit properly.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonBek View Post
    Really cool. By chance or experience I feel it will work well with my approach to the game. Many Thanks for the time you put in.
    Glad you like it! It took a while to do this one. I started trying to get evasion in there, and some other ideas but none of them "worked". Finaly focusing more on fighter it started to come together and using ranger for a splash instead of rogue it jelled a lot better.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  7. #7
    Community Member WolfSpirit's Avatar
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    Arrow ok

    Looks good Sig, except...

    Kunderak Delving Suit?
    come on man, the best light armor available in the game? How viable is that for everyday players?

    (But we 10 here on the forums each have it on every character after running dragon raid 143 times each)

    Um...
    Ok.

    Also, +5 weapons? Who uses them? They are sucky weapons at best with no or few abilities. The best Bursters or stat damagers are +1-3, and the latter of those are RR.

    Overall, Its a good build.
    But how is the AC looking with a plain ole +5 Studded or Chain Shirt or a robe of nothingness?
    (I hear you, Do the math)
    I don't want to, your making the build here man.
    I'll add what I find to the rough draft.

    I reiterate, Good overall build.
    As always Sig, you can strike a nice balance in your characters.
    Keep up the good work.

    Maybe I'll give you an assignment soon.
    (For a bare ass character only, Pass on the "possibilities" with items)
    Last edited by WolfSpirit; 08-22-2007 at 11:37 AM.

    ~
    If we shrank our solar system to the size of a Quarter, and lay it at your feet, the Milky Way galaxy would still be larger than North America. ~NASA Perspective anyone?

  8. #8
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    Default No Delving Suit? No Problem

    you want an everyday easy to find item until you get your delving suit? Just grab a frearsome robe or light armor. I lucked up and found a fearsome chain shirt of Mod fort for my barbarian on the AH dirt cheap. Fearsome of greater resist or axeblock robes are also a dime a dozen.

  9. #9

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    Neat idea.

    I'm concerned that Maximize on dragonmarks is almost certainly going to be nerfed, though.

    (Just my theory, based on other behaviors from the devs in the past)

    Thelanis
    :
    Axio/Pak/Flavord/Paxi/Axiomus/Efrit/Aximus/Axi/Paximus/Heysoos/DanielAsh/Axioma
    -=[ Archangels ]=-

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSpirit View Post
    Looks good Sig, except...

    Kunderak Delving Suit?
    come on man, the best light armor available in the game? How viable is that for everyday players?
    Admitiedly it's an indulgence, but we all know how to get one (eventualy) and it is simply the best armor for this character (and many others), so I use it to measure by. Mithral Chain shirt is one worse, and from there +5 chain is two steps down. Any way you slice it's 3 points of AC between super perfect gear, and a simple +5 armor. I chose to present the delving suit since its something you would want to shoot for, and unlike mithral you know where to go to get it.


    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSpirit View Post
    Also, +5 weapons? Who uses them? They are sucky weapons at best with no or few abilities. The best Bursters or stat damagers are +1-3, and the latter of those are RR.
    Unless a build is designed to fight with a particular type of weapon I tend to just list +5 weapons on these builds. Generaly you use whatever you have that is best but you shoot for getting as high a + as you can with good special benefits. So it is just listed as a benchmark instead of a goal. Why do I somewhat optimize armor but not weapons? Because with the armor I'm only dealing with one varaiable AC but weapons have all kinds of sought after powers. Few folks collect armor for its special abbilities except perhaps fearsome.

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSpirit View Post
    Overall, Its a good build.
    But how is the AC looking with a plain ole +5 Studded or Chain Shirt or a robe of nothingness?
    (I hear you, Do the math)
    I don't want to, your making the build here man.
    I'll add what I find to the rough draft.
    Chain Shirt gives you 36 Offense or 47 Defense (3 less than the delving suit which has one more armor and two more max dex) <at this point you could also go with padded, studded leather, leather etc.. all the same AC>

    +5 Mithral Chain Shrit is 38/49 <I've actualy bought a couple of these off auction for less than you might expect do to RR considerations>

    Robes + Armor bracers.. depends on the bracers, but lets say +5 (they go to +7 I believe): That gives you 35 Offense and 46 Defense, still quite good, only a tad less than the chain shirt.

    Quote Originally Posted by WolfSpirit View Post
    I reiterate, Good overall build.
    As always Sig, you can strike a nice balance in your characters.
    Keep up the good work.

    Maybe I'll give you an assignment soon.
    (For a bare ass character only, Pass on the "possibilities" with items)

    Thanks! Kind of you to say so. It's kind of hard to resist a bit of item pimping with a character that shines in a particular area.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  11. #11
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Default

    I just stumbled upon this today after, about two weeks ago, making a build quite similar. The primary difference in mine was that instead of lvls of fighter I took lvls of Pali - for soloing, saves are more important than the extra offense, especially if you consider that you will be using a wounding bow or the like for the majority of the mobs. Mines up to level 8, and I'm liking it quite a bit. I survive when I have absolutely no business doing so! That being said, there are occasional times that I miss the DPS of a "real tank," but it is still a cool build.
    sravana, kirtana, smarana, dasya, atma-nivedana
    ...NAMASTE...

  12. #12
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    Default My Halfling TWF Dragonmarked Alternative

    I've also been messing around with something similiar to this. I didn't want to splash wizard as that did not appeal to me. I ended up with the following, the 4 levels of paladin allows for maximize and also gets you great saves and immunities. I also threw in rogue for evasion and UMD. I think it turned out pretty well.

    Halfling Male Lawful Good Fighter 8/Pally 4/Rogue 2

    Stats:
    Str 14 (26 =14 +3 Levels +1 Tome +2 Enh. +6 Item)
    Dex 16 (26 =16 +1 Tome +3 Enh. +6 Item)
    Con 12 (20 =12 +2 Favor Tome +6 Item)
    Int 10 10
    Wis 8 (14 =8 +6 Item)
    Cha 14 (22 =14 +1 Tome +1 Enh. +6 Item)

    Level Progression:
    1 Rogue
    2 thru 5-Paladin
    6-Rogue
    7 thru 14-Fighter

    Skills:
    UMD (Maxed)
    Balance
    Jump

    Feats:
    1-Toughness
    3-Least Mark of Healing
    6-Maximize
    7-(FB) TWF
    8-(FB) ITWF
    9-Lesser Mark of Healing
    10-(FB)IC Piercing
    12-Greater Mark of Healing
    12-(FB) Weapon Focus Piercing
    14-(FB) GTWF

    HP:
    132(Levels) +20(Heroic) +10(Draconic) +30(GFL) +70(Con) +16(Toughness) +30(Ftr Toughness III)=308

    SP:
    5(4 Paladin) +26(Wis) +100(Magi) = 131

    Enhancements:
    Fighter Strength II
    Paladin Charisma I
    Rogue Dex I
    Halfling Dex II
    Fighter Haste Boost I
    Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Fighter Toughness III
    Halfling Luck Will III
    Halfling Luck Reflex II
    Paladin Devotion I
    Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Fighter Armor Mastery II
    Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Extra Dragon Mark IV

    AC:
    Base 10
    +5 Mithral Chain 15
    Fighter Armor Mastery 2
    Paladin Aura 2
    Protection +4 4
    Sheild Spell (Wand) 4
    Barkskin Pot 3
    Halfling 1
    Chaosgaurde 2
    43 (46 Shield Equiped, 48 full barkskin)

    Saves (Fort/Reflex/Will):
    Base: 10/6/3
    Paladin Aura: 2/2/2
    Divine Grace: 6/6/6
    Attributes: 5/8/2
    Resistance +4: 4/4/4
    Greater Hero: 4/4/4
    Halfling Luck: 1/3/4
    Total: 32/33/25

    To Hit:
    BAB 13
    Str 8
    Weapon 5
    Halfling 1
    Weapon Focus 1
    Greater Hero 4
    Divine Favor 1
    TWF -2
    31

    Damage:
    Weapon 5
    Str 8
    Divine Favor 1
    14 (10)
    Last edited by EinarMal; 09-28-2007 at 02:34 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member WeaselKing's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Neat idea.

    I'm concerned that Maximize on dragonmarks is almost certainly going to be nerfed, though.

    (Just my theory, based on other behaviors from the devs in the past)
    Then shh, nobody tell the devs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milamber69 View Post
    Please forgive my personal attack, I was high on Platypus Venom at the time.

  14. #14
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    Question still a good build?

    Is this still a good build based on the most recent game updates?

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