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  1. #1

    Default Basic Starter WF DPS Barbarian - Non Min-Max (Build By Request)

    From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread

    Build Name:Chunk
    Author:Sigfried Trent
    Requester: Moorwer
    Last Updated: 06/24/10

    Key Words [Barbarian, 28pts, THF]

    Objectives
    The request was for a DPS warforged barbarian that was not especially min-maxed. Of course barbarians are somewhat min-maxed by class definition but there are things you can do to make them more well rounded.

    Design
    My first take on this was critiqued as too min-max for the request and it’s a point well taken in retrospect. I’ve taken the same basic build and rounded of the pointy bits somewhat as well as added the frenzied berserker prestige enhancement.
    I chose to use Adamantine Body which is controversial. At low level it can be a life saver for a new player, but by the mid levels the AC boost is nearly useless for them. I have it in the build, but you can easily swap it out via the dragonmark free feat exchange once you feel it is no longer of use. Stunning blow is a good alternative feat.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
    (20 Barbarian) 
    Hit Points: 340
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 7
    Will: 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity            12                    12
    Constitution         17                    19
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom               12                    12
    Charisma              6                     6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     7
    Bluff                -2                    -2
    Concentration         3                     4
    Diplomacy            -2                    -2
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                    -2
    Heal                  1                     1
    Hide                  1                    -4
    Intimidate           -2                    -2
    Jump                  7                    24
    Listen                5                    24
    Move Silently         1                    -4
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                    -1
    Spot                  1                     1
    Swim                  3                    -3
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Listen (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
    Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
    
    
    Level 2 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking I
    Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I
    
    
    Level 4 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
    
    
    Level 5 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    
    
    Level 6 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    
    
    Level 7 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting I
    
    
    Level 8 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    
    
    Level 9 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
    
    
    Level 10 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    
    
    Level 11 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
    Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II
    
    
    Level 12 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III
    
    
    Level 15 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
    Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking II
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Listen (+1)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Might
    Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting II
    Play
    Play is straight forward: rage up and kill. Barbarians benefit from using play skills to avoid getting clobbered. I like the stick and move technique where you move when overwhelmed and stand still when trying to run straight up DPS. Keep in mind you are not easy to heal. Having a good collection of repair potions will greatly help your reputation in groups.

    Variations
    Variations for 32pts are fairly simple. You want to increase str or con. You can easily lower dex a little to pick up the needed points for 18 str.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 06-24-2010 at 02:19 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    lol this is the very defintion of min-max.

    Taking an awful feat selection doesn't quality a build as min max, its just silly. Adamantine body is worthless. Mithral is ok if you get some dex, but still worth swapping out at high levels.

    fyi: Min-max refers to stats.

    Really doesn't hurt to drop a couple con and get some will/reflex saves. Barbarians aren't all about sacrifcing saves, not sure where you got that insane idea. My barbarian has excellent saves, far superior then a fighter. We get things like uncanny dodge and indomitable will for a reason, its something to capitalize on, not ignore entirely.

    (oh and why your feat selection sucks:
    You chose 16 hipoints over GTHF. Crazy idea.

    Do you realise a 18 con WF barb can reach well over 450 hitpoitns without toughness? Are you sure you need to spend a feat on 16 more? and dont even consider taking toughness enhancements on a WF, with the requires healers friend and construct thinkings enhancemsnts alreayd eating into your small pool there is no way to justify them.

    Also some glaring errors that make the build impossible:
    6 feats selected.
    Improved two-weapon listedi nstead of two-handed.

    Saves seem made up.
    base saves are
    +14/+9/+4
    Stat modified should be (say +6 str/con items and +4 dex/wis)
    +23/+11/+6
    Buffed (say +4 greater hero, +4 resist item)
    +31/+19/+14
    Rage modified should be
    +35/+19/+19 (only vs enchantment, +14 vs others)
    Or uncanny dodge moded (2min per shrine)
    +35/+25/+19

    So really your reflex is better then your will if you know how to use your feats correctly.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    fyi: Min-max refers to stats.
    Not really, it refers to any strategy where you focus on a strenght and in doing so create a weakness. This applies to any build choice not just stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Really doesn't hurt to drop a couple con and get some will/reflex saves.
    I suppose. 18 con for a WF costs 10pts, so dropping it to 16 would free up 4. I'm not sure I could create a dramatic improvement in his refex and will saves with 4 stat points. I could improve them, yes, but not really to the point where they would be impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Barbarians aren't all about sacrifcing saves, not sure where you got that insane idea. My barbarian has excellent saves, far superior then a fighter. We get things like uncanny dodge and indomitable will for a reason, its something to capitalize on, not ignore entirely.
    Barbarians have weak will and reflex saves. They have little functional use for dex or wisdom beyond their saving throws. Warforged get an inherent bonus to many will saves already and with adamantine body I can't leverage much dex for ac. Non WF can access some nice mithral armor options but a WF can't do that, so dex just isn't a good AC option for them unless they can go whole hog on it, and that takes a big stat commitment, something this guy can't afford.

    I'd be very curious to know what your amazing will and reflex saves are for your barbarian and how you get them. The class offers very little, feats are not easy to come by. Unless you invested heavily in those stats you probably can't beat this builds saves my more than 4 points in either save category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    You chose 16 hipoints over GTHF. Crazy idea.
    Thanks for catching that, coppy paste error (I was editing from another build making this one), no toughness feat, that's a typo. I only get 5 feats to work with on a WF barbarian (keep in mind that was a build constraint). I chose to go with adamantine body so he could have some AC. A WF barbarian certainly does not nead Toughness. I decided power attack (since it also raises glancing damage) was a better buy than GTWF. Now you could easily go with Composite body and pick up GTWF, but I know how hard it can be playing a low AC non-self healing, hard to heal, barbarian in the low-mid levels. Besides, 15 will come and this build would certainly take GTWF then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Improved two-weapon listedi nstead of two-handed.
    Thanks for catching that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Saves seem made up.
    base saves are
    +14/+9/+4
    What? Base saves are actualy 9/4/4

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Stat modified should be (say +6 str/con items and +4 dex/wis)
    +23/+11/+6
    Incorrect.. +9 con, +1 dex +1 wisdom.. so
    18/5/5

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Buffed (say +4 greater hero, +4 resist item)
    +31/+19/+14
    I generaly just estimate a 2-6 pt alotment of bonuses instead of figuring them out exactly because different folks have different equipment, it has little to do wtih a build if you just at 8 to every character you make. What's the point of that?

    Anyhow... 26/9/9

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Rage modified should be
    +35/+19/+19 (only vs enchantment, +14 vs others)
    Or uncanny dodge moded (2min per shrine)
    +35/+25/+19
    Ok... greater rage is 6 con, +2 from hearty rage... for +4 to fort saves, +3 will saves (no idea how you got enchantments in there...)

    30/9/12 And this is right about where my estimates are although admitedly I sold fort a bit short, I'll fix that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    So really your reflex is better then your will if you know how to use your feats correctly.
    Well, I suppose with uncanny dodge, yes but I wouldn't include a short duration abbility like that in the overall save calculation.

    I appreciate the comments but you could say the same things without coming across quite as rude about it, but this is the barbarian forum so I shouldn't mind and indeed its all good. I'm glad you found the typo's and made me take a closer look at the exact save numbers.
    Last edited by sigtrent; 08-15-2007 at 11:38 PM.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
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  4. #4
    Founder Sojourner's Avatar
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    I would be torn on the adamantine body for a generic starter build.

    If it is really wanted, my recommendation would probably be to use it at low levels where the AC could be decent and then swap the feat out at higher levels once it becomes useless. Maybe for the "Weapon Focus" feat since that is one that could easily slip in to a level 1 slot.

    But, there should probably be a strong reminder to the person requesting the build that if they are going to be relying on their AC for anything, they also need to be going sword&board, because even with an adamantine body, a THF is just not gong to have enough AC to matter.



    Getting into the endgame, you're looking at something in the range of 30-40AC

    10-Base
    08-Adamantine
    01-Dexterity
    05-Docent
    04-Protection (Shield of Faith or Item)
    03-Barkskin potion
    03-Chattering Ring
    ---
    34

    But, you need about 40 just be any use at all in gianthold normal, possibly 35 if you error on the side of AC. But, whichever number, 34 doesn't hit it so they would have to work out how to get more.
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  5. #5
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
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    Wow, I somehow totally missed that you had posted this. ANd I thought I spent too much time lurking the forums...

    Thanks - and I've been interested in the discussion. I'd probably do greater two-handed, and the power attack chain...

    So the question on the armor feats - go for a modified 20 dex and get one more AC from mithral than you would from adamantine?

    Does the adamantine body stack with barbarian DR? I assume the answer is no...
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  6. #6
    Community Member VampericX's Avatar
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    i act thought they did stack but i could be wrong....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by moorewr View Post
    Does the adamantine body stack with barbarian DR? I assume the answer is no...
    The answer is no. For more information about DR read this DDOwiki page.

    As for the build... well... err....Yes, pretty much a min-max build, but with (too low) AC.
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  8. #8
    Stormreach Advisor
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    I would also swap adamantine body at later levels, once you become hit so often it won't matter anymore.

  9. #9
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    I realize the original post is old but just wanted to point out with some effort you can can overcome a low wisdom on a WF barb. My 28 point 14barb/2ftr started with a 6 Wisdom when I didn't know any better. By crafting a tier 2 Shroud item I was able to add +5 will save and +6 Wisdom. I put a few points into WF Construct Thinking. All this added together means I now have a +23 versus will based enchantments while raging. This is without GH (as it doesn't stack) so that means I can stand in front of a beholder or dispelling cleric with that save. It's not the highest but it's in the range to give me a fighting chance. :-)

  10. #10
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    What would I need ot change to make this build without using a warforged, perhaps using a dwarf instead?
    I'm new, and interested in going Oversized twf.

  11. #11
    Community Member Khurse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TisoySauce View Post
    What would I need ot change to make this build without using a warforged, perhaps using a dwarf instead?
    I'm new, and interested in going Oversized twf.
    You'd need to ignore this post and request a build.

    This is about as far from a Dwarf TWF as you could get.

  12. #12
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    Hello. I just got this character to lvl 3 but there is no ENCANTMENT- GREAT WEAPON APTITUDE. Can you fix it and suggest something else or i am wrong? Thank you.

    P.S. Last checked with the trainer on January 6, 2013.

  13. #13
    Community Member twigzz's Avatar
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    Look at the date of the thread.

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