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  1. #3861
    Community Member Drecas's Avatar
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    Looking for the ultimate batman build, for a character who has a few lives under it's belt and +4 tomes across the board, but has sat unused for a while and doesn't have up to date gear.
    I don't have any weapons or items on this character that would allow me to hit reapers, so I'm going to need something that gains ghostly from enhancements, like for example from the Eldritch Knight tree.

    Being able to hit reapers won't do me much good however, if the first Carnage Reaper that comes along destroys me in couple hits, so am going to need enough CC to reliably disable reapers.

    Since it's a batman build, trapping and evasion are going to be necessary, and there are only 2 classes that provide that trapping, and 4 that provide evasion.

    So what I'm looking at is:

    Either paladin, druid or wizard for the ghostly attribute.
    And then monk, rogue or ranger for evasion (wolf form druids have that too).
    Either rogue or artificer for trapping.
    But what class and combat style, would be best for DPS? Knight's training SwF? Maybe go ranged? Wolf form?
    And how about that CC? Gnomes get Color Spray, that works great vs reapers if you invest heavily into it, another easy choice is Knockout from Occult Slayer, if you can land a hit.

    There are too many variables, it feels like my brain is melting out of my ears. So what would be your ultimate batman build?

    EDIT:

    So after thinking about it, I'm wondering if a gnome 18 druid / 2 rogue would do it?
    Fighting style would be nature form vistani, wisdom based. Crowd control abilities gained from Falconer and druid spells.
    Can't decide which provides more DPS, Nature's Warrior or Vistani 5th tiers.

    This build would have everything except PRR, but hopefully with proper CC, PRR becomes a moot point.
    Self-healing: Check!
    Evasion: Check!
    Trap disabling: Check!
    DPS: Check!
    Crowd Control: Check!
    Hit Incorporeals: Check!

    Is it actually feasible?? Heck if I know.

    Problems with the build:

    Feat starved, natural fighting eats up 3 feats. Hard to fit in quicken, heighten et al.
    Remove a level of rogue, add 2 levels of fighter? This would force me to take 5th tier Nature's Warrior, evasion is bumped to level 12. 5th druid core lost.

    THE BUILD

    Drecas Nth Life
    17/2/1 Druid/Fighter/Rogue
    True Neutral Gnome


    Level Order

    1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Druid . . . . .11. Druid . . . . .16. Druid
    2. Druid. . . . . .7. Druid. . . . . 12. Fighter . . . .17. Druid
    3. Fighter . . . . 8. Druid . . . . .13. Druid . . . . .18. Druid
    4. Druid. . . . . .9. Druid. . . . . 14. Druid. . . . . 19. Druid
    5. Druid. . . . . 10. Druid. . . . . 15. Druid. . . . . 20. Druid



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 10. . . .+4. . . .4: WIS
    Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+4. . . .8: WIS
    Constitution. . 14. . . .+4. . . 12: WIS
    Intelligence. . 18. . . .+4. . . 16: WIS
    Wisdom. . . . . 18. . . .+4. . . 20: WIS
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+4. . .



    Skills
    . . . . . R .D .F. D. D. D. D. D. D. D. D. F .D .D .D .D .D .D .D .D
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . 4 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Search. . 4 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Spot. . . 4 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    UMD . . . 4 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1½ 1½ 1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Open Lo . 4 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .21
    Heal. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .13
    Jump. . . 4 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
    Diplo . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Intim . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .48 .9 .7. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 10 .8 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    .3. . . . : Quicken Spell
    .3 Fighter: Power Attack
    .6. . . . : Natural Fighting
    .9. . . . : Natural Fighting
    12. . . . : Natural Fighting
    12 Fighter: Improved Critical: Piercing
    15. . . . : Heighten Spell
    18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell

    .4 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
    .7 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Bear
    10 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
    14 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear
    16 Druid. : Wild Shape 3: Fire Elemental
    20 Druid. : Wild Shape 3: Water Elemental


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Nature's Warrior (34 AP)
    • Natural Adept, Nature's Senses, Nature's Bounty, A True Hunter
      1. Take Down III, Beastial Nature II
      2. Flight III, Ghost Wolf, Brother Wolf III, Double Strike Boost III
      3. Fight III, Prey on the Weak II, Wisdom
      4. Four Legs Good, Wisdom
      5. Swift Hunter, Jaws of Ice

    Falconry (25 AP)
    • Falcon, Wisdom
      1. Rugged III, Out in Nature I
      2. Killer Instinct I, Watch the Center III, Diving Strike I, Sprint Boost II
      3. Killer Instinct II, Strike for the Eyes: Strike I, Eyes of the Eagle
      4. Deadly Instinct II, No Mercy III

    Vistani Knife Fighter (21 AP)
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
      1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
      2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker
      3. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Wisdom
    Last edited by Drecas; 08-04-2019 at 10:34 AM.

  2. #3862
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drecas View Post
    Self-healing: Check!
    Evasion: Check!
    Trap disabling: Check!
    DPS: Check!
    Crowd Control: Check!
    Hit Incorporeals: Check!
    I mean you have one there, but otherwise how about a PM build? Could go 18/2 in the Pale Trapper tradition. 12/6/2 with Fighter for a more melee-focused version? Comes with self-healing, Evasion (with Insightful Reflexes on Int-max), Traps, some DPS (instakills w/DoT's for bosses), CC all around (especially w/Gnome for Color Spray), and obvs Incorp bypass.

    Trap skills being Int-based highly encourages playing an Int-max toon if you're low-gear/tomes. As a melee that limits you mostly to Harper builds, otherwise Artificer or Rogue crossbow builds (and I guess Arti melee?).

    Hell, you could probs do an Arti/(Wiz or Pally)/Rogue build. Use crossbows, get everything on your list. Probs would roll Gnome for Color Spray still, it's absolutely bonkers on an Int-max build.

    12/6/2 Wiz/Divine/Rogue for a Wraith form Silvanus EK? Color Spray is a bit more limited in Knight Stance, but you can run EDF then which is nice. Deep Gnome obvs ideal.

    What type of toon do you want? I have a spellcasting, a ranged, and a melee listed there lol.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  3. #3863
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Default Returning player...want some fun Warforged builds

    I am returning from about a 1 year break (White Plume Mountain was new).

    What I miss most is soloing and small grouping.

    I am currently level 8/9 on a WF FVS life (standard melee FVS with great sword...its fun, not OP by any means).

    When I get to 20/30, I will probably crank out 1 ETR and get some tokens or hearts or w/e the ETR and TR currency is.

    My next few lives I will exclusively do Warforged lives because they are my favorite race...I might buy the level 15 Warforged Iconic (do the Iconic TRs give you the class PL and the iconic PL?)

    Before I left, I did a melee WF Arty. I think it was basically the Maverick hunter, I changed it a little bit but I had fun.

    Anyway, my goals: Solo and low man Heroic Elite and some low level Reaper...be useful in Epics for EE or low Reaper

    I am looking at maybe doing an 18WIZ/2ROG and 20 SORC Eldritch Knight lives (is it good now) and another melee arty life or 2.

    Any recommendations, please steer me in the right direction. Unsure what is good or bad now.

    I am not really looking for the best DPS etc...just want to have fun.
    "Hireling" and "Hjealer"
    Member of THACO on Ghallanda

  4. #3864
    Community Member Drecas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    I mean you have one there, but otherwise how about a PM build? Could go 18/2 in the Pale Trapper tradition. 12/6/2 with Fighter for a more melee-focused version? Comes with self-healing, Evasion (with Insightful Reflexes on Int-max), Traps, some DPS (instakills w/DoT's for bosses), CC all around (especially w/Gnome for Color Spray), and obvs Incorp bypass.

    Trap skills being Int-based highly encourages playing an Int-max toon if you're low-gear/tomes. As a melee that limits you mostly to Harper builds, otherwise Artificer or Rogue crossbow builds (and I guess Arti melee?).

    Hell, you could probs do an Arti/(Wiz or Pally)/Rogue build. Use crossbows, get everything on your list. Probs would roll Gnome for Color Spray still, it's absolutely bonkers on an Int-max build.

    12/6/2 Wiz/Divine/Rogue for a Wraith form Silvanus EK? Color Spray is a bit more limited in Knight Stance, but you can run EDF then which is nice. Deep Gnome obvs ideal.

    What type of toon do you want? I have a spellcasting, a ranged, and a melee listed there lol.
    Those are some interesting ideas, thank you for your input, take a +1

  5. #3865
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    My next few lives I will exclusively do Warforged lives because they are my favorite race...I might buy the level 15 Warforged Iconic (do the Iconic TRs give you the class PL and the iconic PL?)
    Iconic TR'ing gives IPL and HPL, yes. If you don't have Paladin PL's, they're one of the strongest available IMO. That said, Paladin is a bit underpowered currently and the devs have it slated for an update in the "near" future (maybe this year?); so I'd probably hold off a little on it.

    Anyway, my goals: Solo and low man Heroic Elite and some low level Reaper...be useful in Epics for EE or low Reaper

    I am looking at maybe doing an 18WIZ/2ROG and 20 SORC Eldritch Knight lives (is it good now) and another melee arty life or 2.

    I am not really looking for the best DPS etc...just want to have fun.
    Arcane blasting spells were majorly buffed, and there are a few more great 9th level blasting spells (and Meteor Swarm got buffed). Sorcerers are one of the strongest Heroic builds around (maybe the strongest), and they're not bad in epics (and with Draconic just getting buffed like today they might even be decent?). You'd do well as a WF Sorc, either blasting or as EK (which is quite good now).

    Artificer's now have the Renegade Mastermaker "tank" tree which should help a bunch with melee arty lives, but I've never played an Arti so I can't speak well to that. Might consider a Bard dip for Swashbuckling though? 3 levels gets you Int to damage (so you can use Insightful Strikes), Doublestrike Boost, En Pointe's awesomeness, and of course the sweet sweet Swashbuckling crit profile. Probably have to use a Light Hammer; but at least then you won't be tied to BE's T5 (since it won't stack with SB crit bonuses, which are better anyway) so you could run RMM T5 for survivability 16/3/1 for Barb's 10% MS?

    18 Wis/Rogue 2 Pale Trapper style should also do very well; Pale Master just got reworked (again, like today) and is in a much better spot, as well as Magister being buffed a bunch (nice update for you lol) so your epics will be better. Not a ton has changed in build style, although optimal enhancements remain to be seen. You might consider just going Wizard 20 though, the capstone seems pretty strong. DC casting (with a touch of blasting thanks to reworked arcane spells) is pretty doable with mostly Ravenloft gear etc which I assume you have if you left a year ago, although Slave Lords will help. Lost at Sea is a new F2P quest that has excellent Wizard goggles that you might consider farming as well, I think that might have been released after you left. Otherwise, EK with spellcasting supporting your melee is pretty awesome

    Wizard/Sorc are in a pretty good spot currently Sorc Savant trees are a little mediocre, but they have a large pool with which they can cast lots of awesome spells and their EK tree is pretty great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drecas View Post
    Those are some interesting ideas, thank you for your input, take a +1
    Glad to help!
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  6. #3866
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    I mean you have one there, but otherwise how about a PM build? Could go 18/2 in the Pale Trapper tradition. 12/6/2 with Fighter for a more melee-focused version? Comes with self-healing, Evasion (with Insightful Reflexes on Int-max), Traps, some DPS (instakills w/DoT's for bosses), CC all around (especially w/Gnome for Color Spray), and obvs Incorp bypass.
    With EK being such a solid melee option now, and changes to PM, I'm very tempted to try out a melee Pale Trapper for the first time in a few years. Loved playing it back in the day, until power creep made PMs a lesson in humility and frustration. I know it's early but any thoughts on creating a U42.4-compliant Pale Trapper?
    "I didn't change my mind, It changed all by itself" – Luna

  7. #3867
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocratesBastardSon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13
    I mean you have one there, but otherwise how about a PM build? Could go 18/2 in the Pale Trapper tradition. 12/6/2 with Fighter for a more melee-focused version? Comes with self-healing, Evasion (with Insightful Reflexes on Int-max), Traps, some DPS (instakills w/DoT's for bosses), CC all around (especially w/Gnome for Color Spray), and obvs Incorp bypass.
    With EK being such a solid melee option now, and changes to PM, I'm very tempted to try out a melee Pale Trapper for the first time in a few years. Loved playing it back in the day, until power creep made PMs a lesson in humility and frustration. I know it's early but any thoughts on creating a U42.4-compliant Pale Trapper?
    Do you want a 1-20 build, 15-30, or a 1-30 or one to park at cap? I will say I tend to overfocus on level 20+ lol, and EK in particular has huge power spikes at Core 5 & Capstone (3.5/7/10.5/14/22.5/33/45.5 for spellsword average). Also do you have tomes? A +5 or greater Dex tome is HUGE QoL for TWF builds that aren't Dex-max.

    To be honest I'm not sure which Shroud is best. Tree builds imply that the Zombie Shroud's -20% AS can be bypassed via Cleaves etc, otherwise Wraith for Incorp or Vampire for DC's and self-healing seem best; no data yet, but one poster estimated 10% proc rate (x d3 x Wizard level x Negative Amp = ~5 average per hit at 20, and no rounding issues from Reaper).

    EK is best with lots of hits, with TWF being noticeably better than SWF (here's a Reddit thread where I was running the math). Cleave builds heavily favor THF though, but THF isn't in nearly as good a spot right now, unless you spec carefully.

    Race-wise, Deep Gnome > Gnome > else. Drow if you're 28-point build (helps out TWF, but losing build points and Con isn't worth it for later lives). Gnome has Color Spray, which is IMO the strongest SLA in DDO, and Deep Gnome is like Gnome+ (also skips the awkward early levels).

    18/2 Wizard/Rogue seems the simplest build:
    TWF x3, ICrit:whatever, Quicken, Heighten, SF:Enchantment (so you can get Magister school focus for +6 DC; Illusion if you're a Gnome). Bonus feats are cake.

    PM T5 (more blasting, long-range casting available - esp good for Gnome/DG)
    • 32 AP Pale Master (Ascendant Shroud, Vampire & Wraith forms, Core 5 taking Inflict Weariness > Ghost in the Wind > whatever)
    • 31 AP Eldritch Knight (Core 5, full T4 except Knight's Transformation, +2 Int)
    • 14 AP Harper (KTA, +2 Int, Strategic Combat II)

    If Gnome, drop to 21 in EK and invest there instead.

    EK T5 (better melee, but only short-ranged casting available - can use EDF though)
    • 41 AP Eldritch Knight (Core 5, full T5)
    • 25 AP Pale Master (+2 Int, Vampire & Wraith forms, Core 5 taking Inflict Weariness > Ghost in the Wind)
    • 14 AP Harper (KTA, +2 Int, Strategic Combat II)

    -----

    Otherwise, Zombie THF 12/6/2 Wizard/x/Rogue with Fighter (Kensei) or a divine class (Silvanus) seems pretty fun. Requires Deep Gnome for Silvanus, and DG or PDK for Kensei. Fighter build is pretty straightforward, so I'll see what divine looks like:

    12/6/2 Wizard/Paladin/Rogue (Paladin for Divine Grace mostly, but FvS using Diving Will/Presence instead of Harper could work?)
    THF x3, ICrit:Bludgeoning, PA>Cleave>GCleave, Quicken, Heighten, SF:Enchantment/Illusion. Definitely leveraging Wizard bonus feats.

    Run LD for additional cleaves & Pulverizer (or at least twist Momentum Swing), run in Zombie form for +20% damage, and have fun? AP splits similar to above. Eldritch Tempest with 20% bonus damage looks hilarious

    If using a Fighter split, probably:
    • 34 AP Kensei (Core 3 and T5)
    • 21 AP Pale Master (Zombie form, Core 4 taking Inflict Weariness > Ghost in the Wind)
    • 14 AP Harper (KTA, +2 Int, Strategic Combat II)
    • 11 AP leftover - Deep Gnome or EK Core 3


    -----

    If you have access to Gnome/DGnome and haven't tried them yet, check out Color Spray. With moderate investment it's one of the best CC options available in DDO - it has 3 separate saves for the enemy to fail, and the blind portion works on many enemies that are otherwise immune to a lot of cc (like undead). It's also a 2 SP SLA (with free metamagic), and while it has a short duration it also has a short cooldown. It's why I'm hesitant to always argue for EK T5, because Knight's Transformation (and EDF) reduce the effective range by like 40%. Seriously, it's nutty. Try it out. It's the basis of my current build, which is a Harper+Kensei Silvanus melee (only 4 Wizard though).

    -----

    Those are my preliminary thoughts from reading the release notes, with no testing thus far. If you're interested in more or have further questions please ask it's easier to tailor a build to suit your needs with more details.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  8. #3868
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    Default Eldricht Mauladin - To Be or Not To Be?

    Not sure if 20 or 30 since I'm working through racials right now. Completionist and +5 all stats from tomes.

    Interesting you mention 12/6/2 Wizard/Paladin/Rogue, as that was what I was considering. I'm currently running a second Divine EK life and very happy with it, and your split seems like the next logical step. I have been doing SWF/Orb which works very well for the extra slot from orb to boost spell power, but Maul if I go Iconic is mighty tempting.

    You're right about Color Spray. I haven't played it with an active toon, I just rolled up a test Deep Gnome and was very impressed. Combining that with EK/t5 Knight's Controller has got to yield a fun quotient on the higher end of the scale. Color me convinced there.

    But my main question still is, to what extent, if any, PM enhances this build, or does it just pull away from other, more useful enhancements?

    While I liked the idea for a Wiz/Pal/Ro split initially, I couldn't figure out a way to make it work other than as just a flavor build. EK is so good can the light damage from KotC cores make up for it? Not really. I will admit that with KotC you gain another Cleave via Exalted Cleave, so with EK Core 1, and at t5 Eldritch Tempest (highly recommended), you potentially get 3 cleaves at level 12, with glancing blow damage if Maul, allowing you to free up feats otherwise spent on Cleave/GCleave and Power Attack, which is pretty attractive.

    In other words, PM doesn't appear to have a good enough ROI (return on investment). If so, an Eldricht Mauladin makes a bit more sense, but paired with Sorc-EK/Ro. I just don't see PM + Wiz-EK + Pal working well at this point, but I speak from not having given it a lot of thought or effort. I would love to be convinced otherwise.
    "I didn't change my mind, It changed all by itself" – Luna

  9. #3869
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    OK after looking at a lot of stuff...

    Do you guys think an Warforged18WIZ/2ROG Quarterstaff build could work?

    I was thinking the 2 ROG for that Q-Staff speed and Evasion and 17 AP for the Quickstrike and Q-Staff Speed and some other things

    I waas thinking using Harper for that Know the Angles and Strategic Combat (INT for to hit and DMG) 8AP into this?

    The 18 WIZ would be just standard EK WIZ with maxed INT and focus on AoE dmg and control. It seems that the key to EK is just attack speed, so having bonus speed without spending feats and having a ton of Double Strike would let my elemental damage be "fast"?

    I could also put some AP into Warforged for that survivability. (Repair Amp and bonus melee power and other stuff)

    I think I will try to run this next life (I have been leveling soooo slow since I have been back...finally level 15 as of now)

    Does anyone see anything horribly wrong with this idea?

    Anyone willing to optimize it?

    EDIT: I generally don't do anything over Reaper 1 and I don't really raid much. Just looking for fun/flavor. I doubt this would be good for high level content (I am not good at high level content either...so its me, not the build lol)
    "Hireling" and "Hjealer"
    Member of THACO on Ghallanda

  10. #3870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    OK after looking at a lot of stuff...

    Do you guys think an Warforged18WIZ/2ROG Quarterstaff build could work?

    I was thinking the 2 ROG for that Q-Staff speed and Evasion and 17 AP for the Quickstrike and Q-Staff Speed and some other things

    I waas thinking using Harper for that Know the Angles and Strategic Combat (INT for to hit and DMG) 8AP into this?

    The 18 WIZ would be just standard EK WIZ with maxed INT and focus on AoE dmg and control. It seems that the key to EK is just attack speed, so having bonus speed without spending feats and having a ton of Double Strike would let my elemental damage be "fast"?

    I could also put some AP into Warforged for that survivability. (Repair Amp and bonus melee power and other stuff)

    I think I will try to run this next life (I have been leveling soooo slow since I have been back...finally level 15 as of now)

    Does anyone see anything horribly wrong with this idea?

    Anyone willing to optimize it?

    EDIT: I generally don't do anything over Reaper 1 and I don't really raid much. Just looking for fun/flavor. I doubt this would be good for high level content (I am not good at high level content either...so its me, not the build lol)
    Need 12pts in Harpers for int to dmg ( 10 prereq and 2 for actual enh )

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