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  1. #4221
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freysavatar View Post
    Cool cool ty!
    I do remember playing a druid back when I was VIP but never got far with it. It's a class I have always been interested in. When it comes to monk, i've never been able to get the hang of them. I splashed one once for a shuriken halfling build which was fun, but also not my cup of tea.

    It pretty much looks like the only options for a spell/melee gishy-esque build would be favored soul, or a mc of the others. I am so out of touch with the game I don't really don't know where to start for a melee build (stats, feats,spells, skills, gear, etc). So yeh, any help would be appreciated.
    Honestly yeah, without access to a Universal tree giving a caster stat to-hit-and-damage you're pretty limited. I think it's FvS or multiclass?

    FvS allows you to use your casting stat (Wis or Cha) as your melee stat, and they have self-healing as well as some offensive casting. Otherwise, Artificer offers Int-to-Hit OR Int-to-Damage, so you could run that with /3 Wizard or /3 Bard (or run a Wiz/Bard or Bard/Wiz). Of those listed, Wizard has the best offensive casting so I'd probably be looking at Wizard/Bard. Takes the longest to get off the ground though, as you'll spike a lot at level 10 and not as much before then (7 Wiz you get Death Aura, 3 Bard for Int-to-Damage).

    Also depends on what weapon style you want, which in turn depends on if you have a Strength tome. If you're TRing into this build you should have a 1750 Favor tome, and even that goes a long way to allowing access to THF (which is the strongest weapon style currently by a wide margin, although it wastes your points in Swashbuckler). That said, going SWF using Bard swashbuckling has a lot of synergy, doesn't require a tome, and gets you some nice spellcasting boosts with an orb off-hand.

    What sounds interesting? Are you TRing into this, or starting from 1/4/7/Iconic? Is this a build aiming just to level like 1-20, 1-30, or do you want to sit at 30, or?
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Honestly yeah, without access to a Universal tree giving a caster stat to-hit-and-damage you're pretty limited. I think it's FvS or multiclass?

    FvS allows you to use your casting stat (Wis or Cha) as your melee stat, and they have self-healing as well as some offensive casting. Otherwise, Artificer offers Int-to-Hit OR Int-to-Damage, so you could run that with /3 Wizard or /3 Bard (or run a Wiz/Bard or Bard/Wiz). Of those listed, Wizard has the best offensive casting so I'd probably be looking at Wizard/Bard. Takes the longest to get off the ground though, as you'll spike a lot at level 10 and not as much before then (7 Wiz you get Death Aura, 3 Bard for Int-to-Damage).

    Also depends on what weapon style you want, which in turn depends on if you have a Strength tome. If you're TRing into this build you should have a 1750 Favor tome, and even that goes a long way to allowing access to THF (which is the strongest weapon style currently by a wide margin, although it wastes your points in Swashbuckler). That said, going SWF using Bard swashbuckling has a lot of synergy, doesn't require a tome, and gets you some nice spellcasting boosts with an orb off-hand.

    What sounds interesting? Are you TRing into this, or starting from 1/4/7/Iconic? Is this a build aiming just to level like 1-20, 1-30, or do you want to sit at 30, or?
    Either Wiz/Bard or FvS sound pretty great tbh. (Is FvS-17/Bard-3 viable for swashbuckling, spellcasting/self heal?) For weapon styles, I tend to enjoy SWF or Sword & Board. I am starting 100% fresh on Argonesson and going to mostly solo my way to 20. I would like to go to 30 as well and do the EPIC TR to get some good EPIC PL's under my belt. I do not have any tomes or amazing gear on this server yet, so am looking for something pretty self sufficient and workable.
    Last edited by freysavatar; 10-27-2020 at 12:26 PM.

  3. #4223
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freysavatar View Post
    Either Wiz/Bard or FvS sound pretty great tbh. (Is FvS-17/Bard-3 viable for swashbuckling, spellcasting/self heal?) For weapon styles, I tend to enjoy SWF or Sword & Board. I am starting 100% fresh on Argonesson and going to mostly solo my way to 20. I would like to go to 30 as well and do the EPIC TR to get some good EPIC PL's under my belt. I do not have any tomes or amazing gear on this server yet, so am looking for something pretty self sufficient and workable.
    Forums just deleted my post so I re-wrote it, but might have forgotten something.

    FvS/Bard should work just fine!

    Running SWF is definitely easiest without tomes (as it only requires Balance ranks).

    I'd recommend either a Shortsword build or a Sickle build; there's more named Shortswords, but Sickles get slightly stronger later (because Swords to Plowshares). Also nobody uses sickles, and there's some for both melee and spellcasting

    I'd start FvS 3 > Bard 3 > FvS; use free metamagic on Sunbolt for earlygame, start melee DPS around level 6-9 or so. Stout of Heart for sure at FvS 7.

    Abilities: max Cha or Wis (and pick Grace of Battle/Knowledge of Battle at FvS 2 respectively), Dex 13, and the rest into Con (maybe a little into Int/Str for skill points/carrying cap).

    Skills: Balance to 7, then max Jump > UMD > Heal > Spellcraft.

    Feats:
    1) Maximize (right-click set to always on for SLA's)
    3) SWF
    6) Swords to Plowshares (if Sickle) or Precision
    9) ISWF
    12) ICrit (Slashing if Sickle, Piercing if Shortsword)
    15) GSWF
    18) Precision or Quicken
    21) Quicken or Overwhelming Crit
    24) Overwhelming Crit or Intensify Spell
    26D) PSWF
    27) Blinding Speed
    28D) PTWF (for Doublestrike)
    29D) Dire Charge
    30) Epic DR
    30L) Scion of like Fire/Arborea/Celestia

    If Human, take Empower at 1 for spellcasting DPS or take Shield Mastery at 1 & Improved Shield Mastery at 18 (ditching Quicken/Intensify as needed) for melee DPS.

    Enhancements start early into AoV for Sunbolt, then Swashbuckler for stance & later Style (orbs if casting DPS, bucklers for melee DPS if Human). Then War Soul a bunch (Divine Might, Haste Boost, Backlash, Holy Striker, Ameliorating Strike, T5, +2 main stat, and a bunch of Favored Weapon stuff). Later on points into racial, AoV, etc.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  4. #4224
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    This is kind of obvious but I want a good first life build for soloing epic content. I want a character I can just leave at epic level who can handle unlocks and grinding for BtA items for me and ideally they'd be able to do everything.

    I've unlocked 32 point builds, got Drow and Warforged and have all the content in the game (Edit: Except Feywild for now) plus Epic Destinies but would rather not buy any classes, races or trees right now unless none of the free classes fit the bill. Everything is kind of vague but I guess priorities are.

    1) Easy gearing.
    2) High damage
    3) No glaring weaknesses on entire quests.
    4) Good survivability/self healing
    5) Access to raising allies
    6) Trap monkeying
    7) Healing others.

    I've just got done on a Pale Trapper who was my main character I'm set on reincarnating and while they were almost perfect I'd like something a bit different just because I've been playing that character a long time. Ideally that would be Bard, Favoured Soul or Cleric because I like a bit of complexity and it's fun trying to juggle resources. Lastly I'm playing with someone who's going Barbarian or Fighter so something a bit different but complementary to that would be a bonus. I know I'm asking for a lot so there's a fair bit of room for flexibility as long as they hit the core requirements. Can solo a wide range of content quickly and easily on a first life 32 point build without tomes (beyond the 2 point 1750 one)
    Last edited by Rakuku; 11-15-2020 at 06:32 PM.

  5. #4225
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuku View Post
    This is kind of obvious but I want a good first life build for soloing epic content. I want a character I can just leave at epic level who can handle unlocks and grinding for BtA items for me and ideally they'd be able to do everything.

    I've unlocked 32 point builds, got Drow and Warforged and have all the content in the game (Edit: Except Feywild for now) plus Epic Destinies but would rather not buy any classes, races or trees right now unless none of the free classes fit the bill. Everything is kind of vague but I guess priorities are.

    1) Easy gearing.
    2) High damage
    3) No glaring weaknesses on entire quests.
    4) Good survivability/self healing
    5) Access to raising allies
    6) Trap monkeying
    7) Healing others.

    I've just got done on a Pale Trapper who was my main character I'm set on reincarnating and while they were almost perfect I'd like something a bit different just because I've been playing that character a long time. Ideally that would be Bard, Favoured Soul or Cleric because I like a bit of complexity and it's fun trying to juggle resources. Lastly I'm playing with someone who's going Barbarian or Fighter so something a bit different but complementary to that would be a bonus. I know I'm asking for a lot so there's a fair bit of room for flexibility as long as they hit the core requirements. Can solo a wide range of content quickly and easily on a first life 32 point build without tomes (beyond the 2 point 1750 one)
    Well, my advice given the early parts would honestly be a THF Paladin or a PM build. Paladin gets a lot stronger once you get Feywild though, so depending on your finances/plans etc that's a factor worth considering.

    Once you get Feywild (and favor unlock Feydark Illusionist), Paladin has:

    1. Easy gearing - max Cha, get some Con, Devotion, Illusion Focus, and then just general melee stuff.
    2. High DPS - THF is great, Paladin is good, 1-stat-max is great. Also Cha-max = lots of charges for Confront Any Foe which is great. And helpless enemies = DPS boost.
    3. Amazing saves (Divine Grace on a Cha-max build is OP) plus great PRR/MRR plus great HP (EDF or SaD stance for %HP) for tanking whatever.
    4. Solid self-heals - LoH scales with Cha up to R5 or so, plus plenty of SP for Cocoon etc otherwise.
    5. Ability to rez natively - SaD Core 4 - and Cha-max for UMD if you want scrolls.
    6. Ability to run outside of EDF if you want party healing (Sacred Defender stance gives 20% HP vs EDF's 25%)
    7. Excellent Crowd control (Divine Might + Cha-max = amazing Dire Charge, Cha-max Greater Color Spray = OP); also great Intimidate for mob management.

    Run /2 Rogue if you're set on trapping as well (you'll need swap gear for sure though); then you can swap to light armor whenever you need Evasion (which will be crazy with Divine Grace-powered saves). Losting KotC Capstone hurts your DPS a little, but you'll be more than fine. Feydark Illusionist Paladin is, bar none, the strongest current melee build in DDO lol. And most of that isn't even meta-dependent, it'll still be great whenever the devs get around to nerfing stuff.

    Run Human, start 16/13/14/8/9/16; one level-up into Str (for THF requirements) the rest into Cha. Feats: THF x3, ICrit:Slashing, Precision, Magical Training; can go Dodge>Mobility>Spring Attack (for a dash) or like Quicken Spell/Empower Healing Spell.
    Alternatively start 16/8/14/14/8/16 for more skill points (will be like 5 more ranks into Search/DD, and maxed Intimidate). Still +1 Str, rest into Cha. Feats: THF x3, ICrit:Slashing, Power Attack, Magical Training, Quicken/Empower Healing Spell.

    Precision is far superior to Power Attack, but without stat tomes you get super-MAD fast for ability points lol. Epic Feats: Overwhelming Critical, your choice, Blinding Speed/Epic DR/Epic Reflexes and another of those. Destiny Feats: Perfect THF, Perfect TWF, Dire Charge. Legendary Feat: Scion of Arborea.

    -------

    Otherwise you could pretty reasonably run a FvS or Cleric Inquisitive (Int-based w/Harper for skill points, or FvS Cha-max). Unlock Inquisitive by running Sharn, and/or Harper unlock with your main before you TR out. 15/3/2 divine/Paladin/Rogue will get you trapping, up to 11 of your Cha bonus to saves, and +25 PRR/MRR & +20% HP via SaD stance which helps a lot for survivability. If you own FvS it's generally better, but unclear from your post.

    -------

    Or obviously some PM split is excellent.

    What's interesting? I can definitely explain further into the ideas behind any of these
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  6. #4226
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Well, my advice given the early parts would honestly be a THF Paladin or a PM build. Paladin gets a lot stronger once you get Feywild though, so depending on your finances/plans etc that's a factor worth considering.

    Once you get Feywild (and favor unlock Feydark Illusionist), Paladin has:

    1. Easy gearing - max Cha, get some Con, Devotion, Illusion Focus, and then just general melee stuff.
    2. High DPS - THF is great, Paladin is good, 1-stat-max is great. Also Cha-max = lots of charges for Confront Any Foe which is great. And helpless enemies = DPS boost.
    3. Amazing saves (Divine Grace on a Cha-max build is OP) plus great PRR/MRR plus great HP (EDF or SaD stance for %HP) for tanking whatever.
    4. Solid self-heals - LoH scales with Cha up to R5 or so, plus plenty of SP for Cocoon etc otherwise.
    5. Ability to rez natively - SaD Core 4 - and Cha-max for UMD if you want scrolls.
    6. Ability to run outside of EDF if you want party healing (Sacred Defender stance gives 20% HP vs EDF's 25%)
    7. Excellent Crowd control (Divine Might + Cha-max = amazing Dire Charge, Cha-max Greater Color Spray = OP); also great Intimidate for mob management.

    Run /2 Rogue if you're set on trapping as well (you'll need swap gear for sure though); then you can swap to light armor whenever you need Evasion (which will be crazy with Divine Grace-powered saves). Losting KotC Capstone hurts your DPS a little, but you'll be more than fine. Feydark Illusionist Paladin is, bar none, the strongest current melee build in DDO lol. And most of that isn't even meta-dependent, it'll still be great whenever the devs get around to nerfing stuff.

    Run Human, start 16/13/14/8/9/16; one level-up into Str (for THF requirements) the rest into Cha. Feats: THF x3, ICrit:Slashing, Precision, Magical Training; can go Dodge>Mobility>Spring Attack (for a dash) or like Quicken Spell/Empower Healing Spell.
    Alternatively start 16/8/14/14/8/16 for more skill points (will be like 5 more ranks into Search/DD, and maxed Intimidate). Still +1 Str, rest into Cha. Feats: THF x3, ICrit:Slashing, Power Attack, Magical Training, Quicken/Empower Healing Spell.

    Precision is far superior to Power Attack, but without stat tomes you get super-MAD fast for ability points lol. Epic Feats: Overwhelming Critical, your choice, Blinding Speed/Epic DR/Epic Reflexes and another of those. Destiny Feats: Perfect THF, Perfect TWF, Dire Charge. Legendary Feat: Scion of Arborea.

    -------

    Otherwise you could pretty reasonably run a FvS or Cleric Inquisitive (Int-based w/Harper for skill points, or FvS Cha-max). Unlock Inquisitive by running Sharn, and/or Harper unlock with your main before you TR out. 15/3/2 divine/Paladin/Rogue will get you trapping, up to 11 of your Cha bonus to saves, and +25 PRR/MRR & +20% HP via SaD stance which helps a lot for survivability. If you own FvS it's generally better, but unclear from your post.

    -------

    Or obviously some PM split is excellent.

    What's interesting? I can definitely explain further into the ideas behind any of these
    I've got FvS and I think that's most interesting, I wanted to do that originally but just couldn't get the stat points to work. It seemed like I needed dex for precise shot, charisma or wis as a main stat and int for skill points and without tomes it was more than I could manage. If that can be done off just 32 pt build that would be great. If it can't though my main has a + 8 int tome I bought in a mad spending spree alongside a +2 con tome from 1750 favor and either wizard or Drow past life. In that case though I'd be making this character into an Artificer because I've ground out the favor for it and I'm way to deep into sunk cost NOT to make an artificer as one of these two characters.

    Thanks so much for the help on this btw, definitely much appreciated because I'm deep in a rabbit hole and can't get myself out

    Edit: Reading through this again it sounds like the Paladin is a much stronger build than the FvS, while I'd like to run an Inquisitive FvS if the Paladin is way better I'll probably go in that direction. I'm not going to be picking up Feywild till it's purchaseable with points though so I'd have to go Str based then use a heart of the wood to respec into CHA.
    Last edited by Rakuku; 11-17-2020 at 01:55 PM.

  7. #4227
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuku View Post
    I've got FvS and I think that's most interesting, I wanted to do that originally but just couldn't get the stat points to work. It seemed like I needed dex for precise shot, charisma or wis as a main stat and int for skill points and without tomes it was more than I could manage. If that can be done off just 32 pt build that would be great. If it can't though my main has a + 8 int tome I bought in a mad spending spree alongside a +2 con tome from 1750 favor and either wizard or Drow past life. In that case though I'd be making this character into an Artificer because I've ground out the favor for it and I'm way to deep into sunk cost NOT to make an artificer as one of these two characters.

    Thanks so much for the help on this btw, definitely much appreciated because I'm deep in a rabbit hole and can't get myself out
    Well, needing Dex, Int, and either Wis or Cha seems to land you at Drow lol. You need 19 Dex for IPS, so build points kinda get locked in; like 8/18/12/16/8/16. One level-up into Dex, the rest into Cha. Can put your +2 favor tome into Dex for Combat Archery in epics or Cha for the rest of your stuff.

    For level splits I'd consider up front:
    19/1 FvS/Rogue gets trap skills while still having the most spells; IMO the worst option.
    18/2 FvS/Artificer gets traps and a runearm for a lil extra DPS.
    17/2/1 FvS/Paladin/Rogue gets +8 saves from Paladin and traps.
    16/3/1 FvS/Paladin/Rogue gets +11 saves, SaD stance, and traps; but you lose Leap of Faith, which is a huge QoL perk.

    I'd probably run the 16/3/1 or 18/2. Leap of Faith is nice, but dipping Paladin gives a lot of tankiness. Swap to SD for times you need Evasion and can make the saves (which is why /2 Rogue doesn't get as much consideration, you're not a Dex/Int build). You could like 15/3/2 for runearms, but that costs you Death Pact which isn't worth it for soloing IMO. Could also swap Paladin for Fighter if you want bonus feats.

    Edit: Reading through this again it sounds like the Paladin is a much stronger build than the FvS, while I'd like to run an Inquisitive FvS if the Paladin is way better I'll probably go in that direction. I'm not going to be picking up Feywild till it's purchaseable with points though so I'd have to go Str based then use a heart of the wood to respec into CHA.
    Edit: Paladin is definitely "stronger", but it's an entirely different style. Also with a self-healing ranged toon you can solo all sorts of stuff at higher difficulties than normal via judicious kiting and patience. Most enemy damage in-game is either melee (which you can ignore) or spellcast (and you can dodge/out-range a lot of that) that presents much less threat to a ranged toon.

    I think new toons come with a LHoW +0, right? If so that seems like a reasonable way to go. Be aware that a bunch of the reasons I really like Paladins is because Feydark allows you to Cha-max one-stat-wonder which is extremely powerful. You'll be fine and Paladin is in a great spot, but it'll be a significant power-up when you pick up Feydark.

    If you're looking to push skulls for slow solo play etc FvS Inquisitive is probably better just by being ranged; if you want a more solid toon that IMO brings a bunch more to the table and will demolish low Reaper at top speed, Paladin is almost certainly a better choice.
    Last edited by SpartanKiller13; 11-17-2020 at 03:28 PM.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  8. #4228
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Well, needing Dex, Int, and either Wis or Cha seems to land you at Drow lol. You need 19 Dex for IPS, so build points kinda get locked in; like 8/18/12/16/8/16. One level-up into Dex, the rest into Cha. Can put your +2 favor tome into Dex for Combat Archery in epics or Cha for the rest of your stuff.

    For level splits I'd consider up front:
    19/1 FvS/Rogue gets trap skills while still having the most spells; IMO the worst option.
    18/2 FvS/Artificer gets traps and a runearm for a lil extra DPS.
    17/2/1 FvS/Paladin/Rogue gets +8 saves from Paladin and traps.
    16/3/1 FvS/Paladin/Rogue gets +11 saves, SaD stance, and traps; but you lose Leap of Faith, which is a huge QoL perk.

    I'd probably run the 16/3/1 or 18/2. Leap of Faith is nice, but dipping Paladin gives a lot of tankiness. Swap to SD for times you need Evasion and can make the saves (which is why /2 Rogue doesn't get as much consideration, you're not a Dex/Int build). You could like 15/3/2 for runearms, but that costs you Death Pact which isn't worth it for soloing IMO. Could also swap Paladin for Fighter if you want bonus feats.



    Edit: Paladin is definitely "stronger", but it's an entirely different style. Also with a self-healing ranged toon you can solo all sorts of stuff at higher difficulties than normal via judicious kiting and patience. Most enemy damage in-game is either melee (which you can ignore) or spellcast (and you can dodge/out-range a lot of that) that presents much less threat to a ranged toon.

    I think new toons come with a LHoW +0, right? If so that seems like a reasonable way to go. Be aware that a bunch of the reasons I really like Paladins is because Feydark allows you to Cha-max one-stat-wonder which is extremely powerful. You'll be fine and Paladin is in a great spot, but it'll be a significant power-up when you pick up Feydark.

    If you're looking to push skulls for slow solo play etc FvS Inquisitive is probably better just by being ranged; if you want a more solid toon that IMO brings a bunch more to the table and will demolish low Reaper at top speed, Paladin is almost certainly a better choice.
    From that description Paladin seems like the way to go, I'm mostly wanting something that can get through most content quickly and easily on Elite without really diving into Reaper. If I were to go with the FvS though how do I manage skills? Do I max Search, Disable Device and Concentration drop a few points into Open Lock and then check for traps with my face?

  9. #4229
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuku View Post
    From that description Paladin seems like the way to go, I'm mostly wanting something that can get through most content quickly and easily on Elite without really diving into Reaper. If I were to go with the FvS though how do I manage skills? Do I max Search, Disable Device and Concentration drop a few points into Open Lock and then check for traps with my face?
    Paladin was one of the best options in Elite before the Paladin update, THF update, and ED update; they're really amazing for it now IMO.

    For FvS you could probably even pick up Quicken somewhere and ditch Concentration if you're that tight on skills? Also Search is how you check for traps usually, although face-tanking is pretty viable especially for the splits with /3 Fighter/Paladin that have 20% more HP and 25 PRR/MRR as well. You'll functionally always be at full HP, so if you don't get oneshot you're good to go. If you are getting oneshot by traps, bring a rez-capable hire and park them at the quest entrance
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Paladin was one of the best options in Elite before the Paladin update, THF update, and ED update; they're really amazing for it now IMO.

    For FvS you could probably even pick up Quicken somewhere and ditch Concentration if you're that tight on skills? Also Search is how you check for traps usually, although face-tanking is pretty viable especially for the splits with /3 Fighter/Paladin that have 20% more HP and 25 PRR/MRR as well. You'll functionally always be at full HP, so if you don't get oneshot you're good to go. If you are getting oneshot by traps, bring a rez-capable hire and park them at the quest entrance
    I've ended up going Paladin and recommending the Inquisitive build to a friend who wanted to try FvS So these are both getting put to use. Thanks again for your help and suggestions they've been great.

    Regarding traps although this isn't the first time through I'm still pretty bad about knowing where to find most of them without Spot so face checking is more reality than plan. If I abandoned concentration for Quicken Spell that would let me get close to a third trapping skill and both Open Lock and Spot are really tempting but neither are absolutely necessary. Lastly I'm assuming this build is going for Stout of Heart over Purity of Heart at FvS 7?

    The Paladin looks more straight-forward but there's a few things I'm unsure of. If I go for Spring attack will I need to squeeze in Int 10 so I can level Intimidate, Concentration and UMD? I'm also guessing the difference between 8 and 9 wis isn't significant so I can drop Str to 15, Wis to 8 and Cha to 17 then tome Str up to 17 and leave the option open for a bigger Cha tome?

  11. #4231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuku View Post
    I've ended up going Paladin and recommending the Inquisitive build to a friend who wanted to try FvS So these are both getting put to use. Thanks again for your help and suggestions they've been great.
    Glad to help!

    Regarding traps although this isn't the first time through I'm still pretty bad about knowing where to find most of them without Spot so face checking is more reality than plan. If I abandoned concentration for Quicken Spell that would let me get close to a third trapping skill and both Open Lock and Spot are really tempting but neither are absolutely necessary. Lastly I'm assuming this build is going for Stout of Heart over Purity of Heart at FvS 7?
    In that case I'd try to itemize a little tankier if you're expecting magic traps in an area it's often worth equipping a Large shield for them (as you get double your PRR & MRR value then). Frankly even without Quicken you can usually do just fine by jump-casting especially as a ranged toon; Concentration only really matters if you're currently taking damage while casting I personally don't run trappers, but the rule of thumb I've seen is that you can usually hit Open Lock DC's with just a few skill points and some swap gear.

    And yeah, Stout of Heart giving HP matters a lot more XD even for most caster builds I'd run it, personally.

    The Paladin looks more straight-forward but there's a few things I'm unsure of. If I go for Spring attack will I need to squeeze in Int 10 so I can level Intimidate, Concentration and UMD? I'm also guessing the difference between 8 and 9 wis isn't significant so I can drop Str to 15, Wis to 8 and Cha to 17 then tome Str up to 17 and leave the option open for a bigger Cha tome?
    As a Paladin you need 14 Wis by level 14 to be able to cast all your spells; this includes all buffs however, so like airship buffs and Owl's Wisdom from your FvS buddy is more than enough to qualify (and you can cast CLW with just airship buffs). I just put leftover points there for QoL purposes and to get you some extra spell points sometimes.

    Weirdly enough though, you can likely drop UMD if you need to. SaD grants access to rezzing around when you'd be able to scroll-cast it, so you don't need to make UMD checks for that. Still, bumping Int is a perfectly reasonable solution.

    Spring Attack requires 13 Dex for Dodge. THF requires 17 Str by level 12 or so. Tomes and level-up points all are a linear increase whereas build points get increasingly expensive, so it's usually ideal to start with lower numbers in a few stats and work them all upwards as needed. If you're expecting a Cha tome, starting 15 Str and putting your +2 favor tome into it works great! I'd be happy to rework starting stats to meet your requirements; just make sure you know all of what you're after

    I really like Spring Attack as a QoL buff and for mid-fight mobility; I'd recommend testing it out if you have access to an Iconic or Vet 7 or something. That said, it's 3 feats, 5 build points, and not for everyone
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Weirdly enough though, you can likely drop UMD if you need to. SaD grants access to rezzing around when you'd be able to scroll-cast it, so you don't need to make UMD checks for that. Still, bumping Int is a perfectly reasonable solution.

    Spring Attack requires 13 Dex for Dodge. THF requires 17 Str by level 12 or so. Tomes and level-up points all are a linear increase whereas build points get increasingly expensive, so it's usually ideal to start with lower numbers in a few stats and work them all upwards as needed. If you're expecting a Cha tome, starting 15 Str and putting your +2 favor tome into it works great! I'd be happy to rework starting stats to meet your requirements; just make sure you know all of what you're after

    I really like Spring Attack as a QoL buff and for mid-fight mobility; I'd recommend testing it out if you have access to an Iconic or Vet 7 or something. That said, it's 3 feats, 5 build points, and not for everyone
    Without relying on it for Raise Dead UMD still looks to be a very useful skill for a variety of buffs and QoL features such as Teleport. On the other hand 1 rank so it counts as trained might be all that's necessary at level 30 if Cha is being maxed.

    The likelihood is I won't end up with a Cha tome but if it isn't going to cost me too badly I'd rather not build myself into a corner. If I do end up hitting 5,000 favor on this char it would bug me no end to either overwrite my +2 tome or put the +5 tome into Con.

    I've got Vet status 2 so I tried out Spring Attack, I'm not quite sure I get it though. It seems to be a fixed distance dash which is a touch clunky next to Lead the Charge. I suppose I could use it when Lead the Charge is on Cooldown, or when I need mobility but not for closing in on an enemy but as you say 5 build points and 3 feats feels like a lot.

  13. #4233
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuku View Post
    Without relying on it for Raise Dead UMD still looks to be a very useful skill for a variety of buffs and QoL features such as Teleport. On the other hand 1 rank so it counts as trained might be all that's necessary at level 30 if Cha is being maxed.

    The likelihood is I won't end up with a Cha tome but if it isn't going to cost me too badly I'd rather not build myself into a corner. If I do end up hitting 5,000 favor on this char it would bug me no end to either overwrite my +2 tome or put the +5 tome into Con.

    I've got Vet status 2 so I tried out Spring Attack, I'm not quite sure I get it though. It seems to be a fixed distance dash which is a touch clunky next to Lead the Charge. I suppose I could use it when Lead the Charge is on Cooldown, or when I need mobility but not for closing in on an enemy but as you say 5 build points and 3 feats feels like a lot.
    Yeah, UMD is extremely useful for a bunch of stuff, and basically every build should at least try to get it; that said, if any build can skip it a Paladin is high on the list

    Spring Attack is a fixed-distance dash that travels through enemies. You don't need to target it, and it's not great to use for damage. That said, it's great for:

    • Gapclosing on caster/ranged enemies.
    • Chasing said enemies or getting behind them to herd them towards your mates.
    • Jumping across gaps - especially with feather fall this is one reason I really love it.
    • Avoiding traps - many traps are hard to get the timing exact for, but easy with a dash.
    • Escaping from enemy dogpiles or dangerous enemies.
    • Getting around quests faster.
    • Moving while under speed penalty effects - like Cripple.
    • Dodging spells/special attacks or spell circles - especially while slowed or CC'ed for the windup.
    • Chaining with other dashes - Spring Attack + Lead the Charge = lots of distance.

    If you only use it as a cleave that moves a bit you're missing most of the value IMO

    I get a ton of mileage out of it in-combat at high Reaper as well; using Dire Charge to initiate dumps me right in the middle of a pack of enemies. I can then throw my AoE stuff and Spring Attack back out of reach before I finish dying to whoever didn't get stunned it's like a free anti-melee panic button with a much shorter CD than any of my other defensive clickies.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  14. #4234
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Default Looking for war hammer fighter build

    I have a halfling 20 fighter TWF war hammer build. He is halfling solely due to the fact that waaaaaay back in the day I found a halfling-only paralyzer, back when nobody had UMD and people really went ga ga over a paralyzer, and over the subsequent decades and many TRs and ETRs he just never changed. I am not happy with the way he is always the last character in the stable that I ever want to play.

    I am looking for a build that is:

    1. War hammer
    2. Probably assuming then TWF but am open to other ideas if they exist
    3. 20 fighter or significant fighter multiclass

    Definitely not married to halfling; have no idea what racial or other synergies with war hammer are really out there. Please advise, thanks!
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  15. #4235
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arminius View Post
    I am looking for a build that is:

    1. War hammer
    2. Probably assuming then TWF but am open to other ideas if they exist
    3. 20 fighter or significant fighter multiclass

    Definitely not married to halfling; have no idea what racial or other synergies with war hammer are really out there. Please advise, thanks!
    Well that's a spicy set of requirements lol.

    AFAIK the only racial synergy there is with War hammers is the Dwarven racial tree. It's not amazing, but it's there. While looking over, I found their T4 enhancement "Dwarf Fortress" which requires full plate and a shield. Made me wonder: have you considered Vanguard?

    You could pretty reasonably do one like Strimtom's build (a little dated but good info) obviously swapping slashing for bludgeoning? Would be the DPS version of it, and doesn't have a race requirement unless you have a bunch of racial AP.

    Otherwise, could go Dwarf and do a Vanguard T5 build actually using Dwarf Fortress alongside a bunch of Stalwart Defender. Significantly tankier, a bit less DPS (Kensei is a lot of DPS lol).

    Or, if you're only going 1-20 and don't care about capstones and all that nonsense you could do a /3 Bard variant using a buckler - but that way you could get SWF's Attack Speed bonus as well as Shield Mastery's stuff. Would need to test, but you might be stuck in light armor for that. Probably wouldn't recommend this line lol.

    -------

    For a strong TWF build these days you're kinda stuck with Tempest or like VKF Assassin. Since VKF is obviously not an option, and you want a majority Fighter build you're left with a /5-6 Ranger dip (T5 Tempest gives Dance of Death which is basically the best way you'll have to be able to clear mobs in a group). If you start Ranger you get a bunch of free Feats, but Fighter gets lots so you could just trade your feat out before hitting Ranger 6 if you want to start Fighter. So like 12 Fighter /6 Ranger leaves you with two levels if you want to multiclass more (Rogue 2 for Evasion given Imp Evasion T5 Tempest? Locks out Improved Defender stances though. Otherwise Barbarian 2 for Blood Tribute and +10% move speed?).

    You'll eventually need 17 Dex which makes me ask: do you have any Dex tomes? Even just a 1750 favor +2 tome adds up really fast lol.

    Best racial synergy here is sorta anything with a Dex or Str bonus and no penalties to those (so Elf/Drow/Wood Elf/Shifter/Half-Orc). Not a huge deal though, just make sure you don't have a Dex penalty unless you have a fat Dex tome.

    -------

    So, what seems interesting?
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  16. #4236
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Well that's a spicy set of requirements lol.

    AFAIK the only racial synergy there is with War hammers is the Dwarven racial tree. It's not amazing, but it's there. While looking over, I found their T4 enhancement "Dwarf Fortress" which requires full plate and a shield. Made me wonder: have you considered Vanguard?

    You could pretty reasonably do one like Strimtom's build (a little dated but good info) obviously swapping slashing for bludgeoning? Would be the DPS version of it, and doesn't have a race requirement unless you have a bunch of racial AP.

    Otherwise, could go Dwarf and do a Vanguard T5 build actually using Dwarf Fortress alongside a bunch of Stalwart Defender. Significantly tankier, a bit less DPS (Kensei is a lot of DPS lol).

    Or, if you're only going 1-20 and don't care about capstones and all that nonsense you could do a /3 Bard variant using a buckler - but that way you could get SWF's Attack Speed bonus as well as Shield Mastery's stuff. Would need to test, but you might be stuck in light armor for that. Probably wouldn't recommend this line lol.

    -------

    For a strong TWF build these days you're kinda stuck with Tempest or like VKF Assassin. Since VKF is obviously not an option, and you want a majority Fighter build you're left with a /5-6 Ranger dip (T5 Tempest gives Dance of Death which is basically the best way you'll have to be able to clear mobs in a group). If you start Ranger you get a bunch of free Feats, but Fighter gets lots so you could just trade your feat out before hitting Ranger 6 if you want to start Fighter. So like 12 Fighter /6 Ranger leaves you with two levels if you want to multiclass more (Rogue 2 for Evasion given Imp Evasion T5 Tempest? Locks out Improved Defender stances though. Otherwise Barbarian 2 for Blood Tribute and +10% move speed?).

    You'll eventually need 17 Dex which makes me ask: do you have any Dex tomes? Even just a 1750 favor +2 tome adds up really fast lol.

    Best racial synergy here is sorta anything with a Dex or Str bonus and no penalties to those (so Elf/Drow/Wood Elf/Shifter/Half-Orc). Not a huge deal though, just make sure you don't have a Dex penalty unless you have a fat Dex tome.

    -------

    So, what seems interesting?
    This is helpful, I was just checking to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I was hoping there was "one weird trick" i hadn't found, as the forums are so good at finding.

    There is also an Artificer line of war hammer enhancements that stack with the Dwarven one. I dunno about that though. Fighter/Ranger is probably the way I'd go if I was going to go, and probably do the extra 2 levels in Bard, because of the synergies with Fatesinger which is such a good TWF destiny (things like you get enough Skaldic Rages to keep it up non-stop).
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  17. #4237
    Community Member magaiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arminius View Post
    I have a halfling 20 fighter TWF war hammer build. He is halfling solely due to the fact that waaaaaay back in the day I found a halfling-only paralyzer, back when nobody had UMD and people really went ga ga over a paralyzer, and over the subsequent decades and many TRs and ETRs he just never changed. I am not happy with the way he is always the last character in the stable that I ever want to play.

    I am looking for a build that is:

    1. War hammer
    2. Probably assuming then TWF but am open to other ideas if they exist
    3. 20 fighter or significant fighter multiclass

    Definitely not married to halfling; have no idea what racial or other synergies with war hammer are really out there. Please advise, thanks!

    Why are you fixated on warhammer? If only for looks, maybe just glamer your favorite warhammer and use another 1-h weapon.
    How about Dwarven War Axe, Fighter 20 Dwarven Vanguard
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  18. #4238
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    Warhammers can work well against undead and some other targets. There are a couple good Ranger/Tempest (2-weapon) builds using warhammers. And a "Ranger 6/Paladin" build could be workable.
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  19. #4239
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magaiti View Post
    Why are you fixated on warhammer? If only for looks, maybe just glamer your favorite warhammer and use another 1-h weapon.
    How about Dwarven War Axe, Fighter 20 Dwarven Vanguard
    It's not a fixation, it is just that this is what this character has always had, that is what all his feats and gear and everything is based on, and I wanted it to be more effective. If I just wanted a strong character I'd reincarnate him to 20 paladin and shove yet another greatsword in his hand.

    I don't actually think the warhammers are the problem. I think FIGHTER is actually the problem. Fighters just don't have the self sufficiency that the game in 2020 demands, and when I try to force it on it, it ends up feeling like it comes up short on all fronts.

    EDIT: or maybe Halfling is the problem too, it really does feel like for him the reach and the hitbox is smaller than everyone else's. Maybe that is a halfling thing and I'd be happier just making any other larger race.
    Last edited by arminius; 11-25-2020 at 09:33 AM.
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  20. #4240
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    Quote Originally Posted by arminius View Post
    I don't actually think the warhammers are the problem. I think FIGHTER is actually the problem. Fighters just don't have the self sufficiency that the game in 2020 demands, and when I try to force it on it, it ends up feeling like it comes up short on all fronts.

    EDIT: or maybe Halfling is the problem too, it really does feel like for him the reach and the hitbox is smaller than everyone else's. Maybe that is a halfling thing and I'd be happier just making any other larger race.
    Current meta is weapon synergy usually around crits; I've just noticed that Knight's Training works for warhammers, so my points are all irrelevant lol. Take Knight's Training XD

    As far as getting self-sufficiency in 2020 on a pure Fighter, your best bets are 1) Aasimar (for Healing Hands), 2) Halfling for the Dragonmark of Healing, or 3) Cocoon + Wizardry in epics. Fighter can be really strong, but it's not really made for self-sufficiency; it's the perfect frontliner (esp with new Heavy Armor feats) but that requires a back line lol.

    Smaller races have less reach, and it's especially noticeable with small weapons. Bigger toons help, but it rarely matters for TWF; since you can only hit one enemy (aside from Dance of Death) non-Ranger TWF toon size is mostly irrelevant. For other fighting styles that revolve more around hitting multiple enemies (particularly THF) size matters quite a bit more.

    Halfling has access to the Dragonmark of Healing though so I'd consider trying that out before you write the race off?
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

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