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  1. #2161
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    heh. as soon as i'm done planning out the warforged build i promised, i'll give you the build i'm currently using on my rogue... 13 rogue 6 monk 1 druid elven acrobat and LOVING it


    edit: as promised... sorry i took so long... hubby wanted to watch TV tonight

    quick n dirty... and apologies but the builder doesn't have EK in it yet, so the enhancements are currently left blank..recommendations forthcoming soon...

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
    (2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 174
    Spell Points: 1172 
    BAB: 10\10\15\20
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 9
    
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    14
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence         18                    23
    Wisdom                6                     6
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     3
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         5                     5
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device        8                    29
    Haggle               -2                    -2
    Heal                 -2                    -2
    Hide                 -1                    -1
    Intimidate           -2                    -2
    Jump                  6                     6
    Listen               -2                    -2
    Move Silently        -1                    -1
    Open Lock             3                     9
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                4                     6
    Search                8                    29
    Spellcraft            6                    26
    Spot                  2                    21
    Swim                  n/a                   n/a
    Tumble                3                     3
    Use Magic Device      2                     5
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    
    
    Level 2 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    
    
    
    
    Level 3 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    
    
    Level 4 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 5 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 6 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
    
    
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 8 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 9 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    
    
    Level 10 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 11 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 12 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    
    
    Level 13 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 14 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 15 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    
    
    
    
    Level 16 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 17 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    
    
    
    
    Level 18 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    
    
    Level 19 (Wizard)
    
    
    
    
    Level 20 (Wizard)

    rogue build tomorrow

    Thanks its perfect

  2. #2162
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selendra View Post
    I'm playing the Kensai Warpriest build and am very comfortable tanking and healing myself though it makes it hard to heal him while I'm tanking which makes fights nearly unbearable at times.
    That's a good soloing build, but it's not intended to be a "real" healer; you won't have the SPs or the healing output necessary to keep you both alive with just 7 or 8 cleric lvls. Ameliorating strike is pretty nice, but by itself it won't be enough. Well, not unless you both have it, perhaps...
    His current build is the Tempest Trapmonkey which in and of itself isn't a bad build at all but it doesn't seem to fit what he really wants to do or as he said he may not be playing it right not sure which. We need him to be able to take care of the traps and unlock doors but we also need to him to be able to survive the fights and do some decent, if not awesome, dps.
    If he's finding rgr to be too squishy, the obvious alternative is to mix with a tougher class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sipherwoods View Post
    Cool thanks Katz, btw what would you take instead of Druid? I dont have access to druid just yet =(
    Ftr is the obvious alternative: +1 feat, Haste Boost, extra action boost, a little extra DPS from Focus.

  3. #2163
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    Well, since xpansions went on sale. hopefully can get druid today. i really like that shil whatever spell druids get

  4. #2164
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    sorry. i meant to post all this in the morning, but my friends have been distracting me with fun questing all day long. XD



    this is what i spent my EK points on. this is not the have all end all... could spend more, or a bit less...but should give you an idea of potentially important stuff


    you might want to spend points in str instead of int... int gained from enhancement points won't have any bearing on your skill points.



    druid is, as you guessed, for shilellaugh... and for rams might. could leave it out completely and go 13/7, or last level could be fighter. 13 rogue is good, tho, because you can get both improved evasion AND opportunist

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  5. #2165
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    I ended up getting both expansions Would you be able to post your Rogue/Monk/Druid build ?

  6. #2166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sipherwoods View Post
    I ended up getting both expansions Would you be able to post your Rogue/Monk/Druid build ?

    gratz on that

    i was actually just in the process of tweaking it... because what i have in the builder is not what i ended up doing... turns out improved feint doesn't seem to work as advertised.

    will post shortly

    edit: i think i have it all adjusted to how he is now... feats might be off a tiny bit, i can't log in to double-check...

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    
    Pickt third life
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Male
    (6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Druid) 
    Hit Points: 266
    Spell Points: 220 
    BAB: 13\13\18\23
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 12
    
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            16                    19
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         14                    17
    Wisdom               10                    13
    Charisma             10                    12
    
    
    
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    
    
    Level 3 (Druid)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    
    
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    
    
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    
    
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
    
    
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
    
    
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Elf - Nothing is Hidden (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Nothing is Hidden (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Elf - Nothing is Hidden (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Vault (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Stealthy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 3)

    not all enhancement points are spent in this example... i only spent points in the elf and acrobat trees. spend the rest of the points how you see fit... you probably won't agree with how i spent mine XD (i do wierd stuff sometimes... like,... arcane archer, just so i have unlimited arrows.)

    also keep in mind this was built for my rogue.. who is on his third life. for a fresh 32 point build, i would most likely start it with

    Code:
    Strength             16             
    Dexterity            14             
    Constitution         14             
    Intelligence         14             
    Wisdom                8             
    Charisma             10             

    and drop zen archery for... some other monk feat. mobility... shuriken expertise.. i dunno

    you could get away with no tomes while leveling... but really... you want at least a +2 str to qualify for overwhelming crit at 21.

    anyways... hits like a truck, super fast, ton of fun. i used air stance leveling up for the attack speed... till i got master of forms.. then i swapped to earth stance for the +1 crit range and extra HP
    Last edited by katz; 11-27-2013 at 10:50 PM.

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  7. #2167
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    Cool thanks. Thanks for included a 32 pt build for stats What would you take in place of the 2 Past Life feats? Some of the others listed and find 2 others i like or would there be another 2 feats that would be ideal for it?

  8. #2168
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    i didn't actually take the active past life feats...

    are the passives showing up somehow? O.o


    durr. i just looked and yea they are. durrrrrrr

    it's late. sue me >.>


    those are passive past lives and auto-granted... not feat slots to be filled. you can safely ignore those 2 lines in the build


    also of note, you can chose another feat than toughness if you wish... build was originally made when everyone had toughness because extra HP enhancements relied on it... now the loss of toughness only means 23 less HP at 20th. i'm too lazy to LR or feat swap to take it out, and i don't really have anything i REALLY REALLY want to swap in to replace it with. so it stays

    if there's some other feat you REALLY REALLY want... toughness is no longer an absolute must have
    Last edited by katz; 11-27-2013 at 11:12 PM.

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  9. #2169
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    Ah okay, never had a LR yet so wasnt sure about the past life stuff Thanks for the build. Will give it a shot once i finally get to 1750

  10. #2170
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I haven't updated it yet for the Enhancement overhaul, but see my Three Ring Circus thread as well. I really need to dust off my Horcrobat and figure out how to redo her for U20...too many alts, never enough time!

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    Hey!

    I wasnt playing for a while and want to TR in something new.
    I have enough of barbarians rage and I need a change.

    I have acces to almost all races and classes (except Bladeforged and Artificer).
    I have Barb PL (THF focused) and Im currently on the 12/6/2 fighter/barb/rogue TWF.
    I have +2 tomes to all stats and +3 to STR and T.

    Im looking for soloable melee heroic lvls build.
    I may play some old epics or easier new epics as well.
    What I need is being focused on THF Axes or TWF Khopeshes (Have GS of those),
    ability to heal myself during quests and survivability (evasion/good saves).

    Unfortunately my gear isnt something great, just some raid stuff from GH, Sands and Vale,
    so it will be better if the build wont be very gear dependant.

  12. #2172
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    Hm. Started at level 4, maxed out the AutoSearch/Spot Enhancement. I can auto find traps, but i dont seem to be able to auto spot boxes, or is that not possible?

  13. #2173
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    that's a tricky one. spot is based off wisdom, so, while a pure rogue can typically keep it high enough to be workable, it's typically the lowest of their "trapping" skills. the 'auto find' of an elf is based on the search ability (with a slight negative to the check. max points spent puts it at a -4 to the check)

    if you've maxed your spot, and you still aren't spotting things... might need a better spot item.. but if you auto-search them out anyway... does it matter?

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    Hey again everyone. Katz you did great work helping me find that eldritch build to play with my wife its working superbly. Now I am back with a new request, I am looking for something to play alone when my wife is asleep or working her weekends. I was toying around with the idea of a thief acrobat, but have a few questions. Do I splash monk or go pure and what race would I use? What feats should I be looking for and is dex based now better than str based because of the acrobat enhancements that use dex for atk and dmg with quarterstaves. What would a build like that look like if anyone has time to put one together quick in the planner? Also it would be a 28pt build.

    My second Idea if the first one wouldnt be good to play solo was a pure rogue assassin build. Again not sure how to build it as far as feats, and what race should I use. Is pure the best way to go or should I splash something with it? I was told that pure is a fairly uncomplicated build but like I said I am not sure what feats and in what order. Could someone throw a build up for this as well please? Again its a solo build for me to toy with while I am waiting for the wife to get home or wake up. Thanks

  15. #2175
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    mmm. this is more in the realm of one of my favorite classes... and yet... more tricky at the same time. lol. rogues, while perfectly capable of soloing with a good build and skill, can be tricky to solo with as a newer player. that being said...i have an idea! but first, a few points

    part of the reason rogues might have trouble soloing as opposed to grouping is sneak attack. traditionally rogues were all about the sneak attack. a pure rogue assassin with all associated sneak attack bonuses could still be doing upwards of 100 damage per hit at 20th with daggers and no power attack...as long as the mob was not aggroed on him/her... because of sneak attack

    acrobats are much more 'in your face kick your butt', so while their sneak attack damage is still decent (but not as high as an assassin's) their primary DPS is (typically) higher and more reliable.

    assassin can be fun as a 'sneak in... kill the target... sneak out' kind of self challenge build, and if you have ways to make mobs blind... you can seriously f up a dungeon in quick order.

    for any type of rogue... bluff is your friend. bluff pulling* is very powerful. yeah, it's slow... but fighting one mob at a time at your leisure = good... dying in a massive mob of mobs = bad

    another reason a rogue, at low levels, might have trouble soloing... is lack of inherent healing. it's not as much an issue at later levels... rogues get UMD as a class skill, so heal scrolls! yay! but it can be difficult in the low to mid levels. (this can be overcome with various means that have been discussed at great length in the forums... potions, wands, hires, class splashes, half elf, etc.)

    all that being said... my idea is... dragonmarked halfling. XD self heals built in!

    for staff build, i would say definitely add monk in. at least 6 levels. ninja spy shadow fade is teh win. XD

    i JUST posted an elf stick build above... and if i dig i'm sure i can find the build for my rogue's second life (rogue/monk assassin) which was a ton of fun... not as direct examples of what to build (they would at the very least need to be tweaked for a 28 point build) but as an idea of what might be good.

    let me think on it a bit more... or harass me in game... and we can sort thing out.

    also, if you want to get an idea of some of the awesome things rogues *can* do... click on the red R.O.G.U.E. link in my sig. ^_^ maybe someday soon i'll be adding some of YOUR accomplishments!


    *bluff pulling: the art whereby you sneak to just barely within bluff range, target a single mob, and bluff it. it will come running to you, leaving his buddies behind and confused. slow, but easy. each fight is one-on-one.
    Last edited by katz; 11-30-2013 at 10:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    mmm. this is more in the realm of one of my favorite classes... and yet... more tricky at the same time. lol. rogues, while perfectly capable of soloing with a good build and skill, can be tricky to solo with as a newer player. that being said...i have an idea! but first, a few points

    part of the reason rogues might have trouble soloing as opposed to grouping is sneak attack. traditionally rogues were all about the sneak attack. a pure rogue assassin with all associated sneak attack bonuses could still be doing upwards of 100 damage per hit at 20th with daggers and no power attack...as long as the mob was not aggroed on him/her... because of sneak attack

    acrobats are much more 'in your face kick your butt', so while their sneak attack damage is still decent (but not as high as an assassin's) their primary DPS is (typically) higher and more reliable.

    assassin can be fun as a 'sneak in... kill the target... sneak out' kind of self challenge build, and if you have ways to make mobs blind... you can seriously f up a dungeon in quick order.

    for any type of rogue... bluff is your friend. bluff pulling* is very powerful. yeah, it's slow... but fighting one mob at a time at your leisure = good... dying in a massive mob of mobs = bad

    another reason a rogue, at low levels, might have trouble soloing... is lack of inherent healing. it's not as much an issue at later levels... rogues get UMD as a class skill, so heal scrolls! yay! but it can be difficult in the low to mid levels. (this can be overcome with various means that have been discussed at great length in the forums... potions, wands, hires, class splashes, half elf, etc.)

    all that being said... my idea is... dragonmarked halfling. XD self heals built in!

    for staff build, i would say definitely add monk in. at least 6 levels. ninja spy shadow fade is teh win. XD

    i JUST posted an elf stick build above... and if i dig i'm sure i can find the build for my rogue's second life (rogue/monk assassin) which was a ton of fun... not as direct examples of what to build (they would at the very least need to be tweaked for a 28 point build) but as an idea of what might be good.

    let me think on it a bit more... or harass me in game... and we can sort thing out.

    also, if you want to get an idea of some of the awesome things rogues *can* do... click on the red R.O.G.U.E. link in my sig. ^_^ maybe someday soon i'll be adding some of YOUR accomplishments!


    *bluff pulling: the art whereby you sneak to just barely within bluff range, target a single mob, and bluff it. it will come running to you, leaving his buddies behind and confused. slow, but easy. each fight is one-on-one.
    yes Katz that would be great if you could help me out. I tried to make a rogue myself but I botched it up and had to delete it. with only 28 pts its hard to get the int and other stats you need specially with no tomes. wife wont let me spend anymore money on game we earned our vets start at level 4 and paid for vip but she says thats it rest must be earned in game. I tried to build an acrobat and it was very fun but i didnt have any sneak or hide couldnt fit them in with bluf and dd and search and spot and umd. I had trouble getting his ac up due to lack of wis to help with monk ac and trying to stay centered for stance buffs and stuffs I am sure I did it wrong. So I put all his gear in shared bank and deleted. a pure rogue would be fun too that one would be easier to work in sneak skills i think because I am not losing skills when i add monk levels. Im kinda torn here I like them both but have no idea how to stat them at start and when to get what feats and skills.

    My problem at the moment is we have only been playing about a week or so after a 4 or 5 year break and we dont have the classes or feats memorized like you guys yet so I need a lot of help now but later I will get it, just give me some time. Perfect example is your stick build a few posts back. I was looking at your enhancements and not sure if thats the basic order you would go but if it is you couldnt use sticks off the bat because you didnt spec for them right away. I am sure there is a reason for it but I am clueless as to what it is. I need to practice this bluff pulling I didnt know you could do that. I have just been using it during fights like a newb. I dont have really great gear or knowledge where to get them other that AH but I dont have alot of money either. So look at this from my point of view if a pro can. I have no clue what im doing and need full on instructions untill I can understand things a bit better. I have basically no gear to send down other than stuff you would acquire by level 4. I have an extreme lack of funds maybe about 10k and working with 28pts on all builds.. With that in mind is there anything that can be done or am I a lost cause? LOL its okay if I am, I am used to it. Also none of this is for end game super play raids or the like at least not yet its all basically for leveling and having fun (for now). I am having a blast with the game and will not be leaving any time soon so I am willing to learn if you are willing to teach.

    Final note I love the rogue section in your link and that would be a great list of things for me to do when my wife isnt around. Some of those achievements look fun to do and would be a great way to continue to challenge myself as well as giving me something to do other than just trying to level up all the time. Thanks for anything you can do or for atleast trying.
    Last edited by Soraksis; 11-30-2013 at 11:41 AM.

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    Also katz my first true love is and always will be rogues. My first toon way way way back in EQ was rogue. First toon in EQ2 was rogue, my first toon in WoW was rogue, my first toon in GW2 was rogue. Problem with most of those games is the rogues always got beat down with nerf bats and then had nerf trees cut down to land on them. As they were fun, I always ended up switching to something else to fit into groups or raids because rogues always ended up outcasts. I never stopped playing them but would usually end up working on them as a side project because of the lack of dev love and community complaints keeping them boxed in. So lets do this, I want in on that list of accomplishments I think I can do this with your help, and who knows maybe through you I will garner the wisdom I need to start posting some of my own ideas on builds here and stop asking for so much help.

  18. #2178
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    Okay well I just couldn't get the feel for the pure rogue, maybe because I am working solo with a 28pt build and not much experience. I will try again some other time. But this acrobat build is just pure fun, he isn't as toe to toe as the eldritch build but he does a lot of damage pretty darn fast. My skills are a bit weak in the sneak and trap dept. but thats okay.

    Now to my next idea, what would taking this 13/7 thf/mnk build and turning into a thf/bard and still working through the acrobat line do? I understand if played proper bards can be very fun and for solo leveling are decently sustainable. Now the only issue I am having with this one is where to split the levels for the best results and what feats and when? I like being able to use the big sticks right away so what I have been doing with the generator is plugging 3 levels of rogue right away so I can get my dex mod to add to my +hit and damage that way I can use the points saved in str some place else.

    Is cha important on bards? I have seen a lot of discussion in other threads trying to research and many of them are dumping it, why? Could I use the saved str say stop at 13 just to get power attack and cleave and use that for CHA or do I need 15 str for the THF? I know I will want decent dex and con as always and will need some int so I can try to maintain some of my hide, sneak and disable device, maybe even a little in open locks, but I will also need concentrate and perform and heal too. Building toons is very fun but at the same time I could pull my hair out trying to squeeze 10 points out of 5 or 6 lol. Its hard to decide what to let fall off and what needs points every round.

    I don't have any tomes haven't even seen any yet highest level char is only 8 atm. So those are out, as my wife says "no" to spending money right now. My gear isn't all that great have +2 items for most base stats like wis and cha and the like but thats about it. I am making a decent amount of money on my main toon atleast I think I am we went from 10k yesterday to around 22ish by bedtime, so i could possibly purchase some more items. The trick is finding them at low levels the best of anything is usually a +2 item or so. Anyways some help with this idea if you could please, I do like the rogue very much but a purist I do not believe is my play style I am just no good at it. And I found that I also like the bard very much so I thought why not combine them see what happens. So again any help with this acrobard idea would be very helpful. Thank you

  19. #2179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soraksis View Post
    Okay well I just couldn't get the feel for the pure rogue, maybe because I am working solo with a 28pt build and not much experience. I will try again some other time. But this acrobat build is just pure fun, he isn't as toe to toe as the eldritch build but he does a lot of damage pretty darn fast. My skills are a bit weak in the sneak and trap dept. but thats okay.

    Now to my next idea, what would taking this 13/7 thf/mnk build and turning into a thf/bard and still working through the acrobat line do? I understand if played proper bards can be very fun and for solo leveling are decently sustainable. Now the only issue I am having with this one is where to split the levels for the best results and what feats and when? I like being able to use the big sticks right away so what I have been doing with the generator is plugging 3 levels of rogue right away so I can get my dex mod to add to my +hit and damage that way I can use the points saved in str some place else.

    Is cha important on bards? I have seen a lot of discussion in other threads trying to research and many of them are dumping it, why? Could I use the saved str say stop at 13 just to get power attack and cleave and use that for CHA or do I need 15 str for the THF? I know I will want decent dex and con as always and will need some int so I can try to maintain some of my hide, sneak and disable device, maybe even a little in open locks, but I will also need concentrate and perform and heal too. Building toons is very fun but at the same time I could pull my hair out trying to squeeze 10 points out of 5 or 6 lol. Its hard to decide what to let fall off and what needs points every round.

    I don't have any tomes haven't even seen any yet highest level char is only 8 atm. So those are out, as my wife says "no" to spending money right now. My gear isn't all that great have +2 items for most base stats like wis and cha and the like but thats about it. I am making a decent amount of money on my main toon atleast I think I am we went from 10k yesterday to around 22ish by bedtime, so i could possibly purchase some more items. The trick is finding them at low levels the best of anything is usually a +2 item or so. Anyways some help with this idea if you could please, I do like the rogue very much but a purist I do not believe is my play style I am just no good at it. And I found that I also like the bard very much so I thought why not combine them see what happens. So again any help with this acrobard idea would be very helpful. Thank you
    as for using dex as primary fighting stat... there's plenty of back and forth on that... dex to damage (aside from a select few niche weapons) is a new thing, and not as well supported in game. it is possible to get a much higher str score than dex currently, and several combat buffs focus on str not dex. that being said... a dex-based combatant is absolutely fine nowadays for the vast majority of the game. i tend to still lean toward strength in my builds... partly due to force of habit, partly to qualify for overwhelming crit (base 23 str required) for most of my melee-centric builds.

    as for dumping charisma on a bard... you aren't going pure. you will not have good DCs or spell pen, so your charisma barely matters. my main bard, Pointless, is more-or-less no fail on her fascinate, and she started with a 12 charisma. there is a new school of thought that says splash FvS/cleric (or paladin, but that would be impossible on a bard), pump the heck out of charisma, and use divine might... but again this plays toward the strength bonus... i'm actually not sure how well something like that would combine with a dex fighter... if someone else who has done this combo can pipe in here for me?

    as for points... i feel your pain. XD for my personal builds i tend to squeeze every possible thing into, and out of, them as i can, both for power, and sometimes silliness (for example, my stick build rogue... has zen archery and 3 points spent in AA for unlimited arrows, for those pesky ledge perching mobs! XD)... usually leaving me wanting for points, enhancement points, and feats. i know that there are people for whom concentration is an absolute MUST... but i typically ignore it unless i'm playing a caster as a caster. heal is good to squeeze in nowadays if you are blue-bar healing in some manner (doesn't effect wands/potions/scrolls) but in my opinion can still be back-burnered for skills you may find more important.


    for the build in question... would you prefer to go more bard, or more rogue? any particular race preference?

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  20. #2180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soraksis View Post
    I was toying around with the idea of a thief acrobat, but have a few questions. Do I splash monk or go pure and what race would I use? What feats should I be looking for and is dex based now better than str based because of the acrobat enhancements that use dex for atk and dmg with quarterstaves.
    There are more STR bonuses than DEX bonuses in DDO; plus Overwhelming Crit req's base STR 23. So in the long run STR-based melee builds have higher DPS, all other things being equal. The main reasons to go DEX-based on an Acrobat build are: higher AC & Reflex saves; easier to get Improved Sneak Atk (req's base DEX 21) if you have no tomes and/or using 28-pt build; higher DCs on Sweeping Strikes & Executioner's Strike (the former is also based on # of rog lvls).

    Here's a sample build of what a DEX-based Acrobat might look like:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    
    Level 28 True Neutral Halfling Female
    (20 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 296
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 22
    Will: 7
    
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             13                    15
    Dexterity            18                    27
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         12                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Hamstring
    
    
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    
    
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    
    
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
    
    
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Feint
    
    
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    
    
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Cartwheel Charge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Followthrough (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Trip Focus (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Trip Focus (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Trip Focus (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Nimbleness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Lethality (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Execute (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    
    
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack
    
    
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip
    
    
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    Primarily focused in Acrobat tree, ofc, but also with heavy investment in Assassin for extra sneak atks, a couple more special atks (Shiv & Execute), and Lethality. There are a few feats to spare, I spent them on some tactics: Hamstring, Imp Feint, Imp Trip (the DC boost from IT applies to Sweeping Strikes, AFAIK).

    A druid splash makes sense if you have it, particularly if you want to take the halfling DMs for self-healing. Druid gets you Ram's Might, Shillelagh, access to Heal skill & Emp Heal to boost DMs. Main drawbacks are losing the capstone and having to give up APs from Acro and/or Assassin to put into halfling tree instead; need at least 12 APs to get Gtr DM. So here's an example of that:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    
    Level 28 True Neutral Halfling Female
    (19 Rogue \ 1 Druid \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 298
    Spell Points: 210 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 21
    Will: 9
    
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             13                    13
    Dexterity            18                    26
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         12                    12
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    
    
    Level 7 (Druid)
    
    
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    
    
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    
    
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
    
    
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    
    
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Cartwheel Charge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Vault (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Nature's Warrior (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Seasoned (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
    
    
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack
    
    
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    I delayed the druid splash and Least DM feat in order to frontload the PA/CL/GC chain; but that means delaying your self-healing as well. So you may wish to tweak the class & feat order, depending on which is a higher priority.

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