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  1. #1
    Community Member Blind_Skwerl's Avatar
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    Default Ultimate DPS 2 hander weapon?

    I have noticed a lot of dps talk mentioning the Sword of Shadows. Is that the best there is atm? What am I missing that makes it so good?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Skwerl View Post
    I have noticed a lot of dps talk mentioning the Sword of Shadows. Is that the best there is atm? What am I missing that makes it so good?
    Regular Greatsword: 2d6, 19-20 crit range, x2 crit multiplier
    SoS: 2d6, 18-20 crit range, x3 crit multiplier

    Bumping the crit range is already a huge benefit, because now Improved Critical will take that to 15-20. In the hands of a 14th level Barbarian that's 13-20 crit range, with a x3 crit multiplier.

    The crit range of a Rapier, the base damage of a Greatsword, and the crit multiplier of a Greataxe.

  3. #3
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Made out of adamantine to boot!

    *drool*

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    Oh yeah, and Carniflex from Delera's suffers from this problem a little bit too...though not nearly as bad...it's 19-20 crit range, and Keen...so 17-20...and useable at level 4! 17-20, x3 at level 4 is pretty horrible. Silver Longbow is another...

  5. #5
    Community Member Harbinder's Avatar
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    Ayye, I lost a roll for it the other day to a barbarian.

    So I guess Cloudburst will have to suffice until I win my SoS. *sigh*

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    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    Oh yeah, and Carniflex from Delera's suffers from this problem a little bit too...though not nearly as bad...it's 19-20 crit range, and Keen...so 17-20...and useable at level 4! 17-20, x3 at level 4 is pretty horrible. Silver Longbow is another...
    I have ran Deleras 15 times looking for Carnifex. Got it on my Rogue/Paladin, go the Cartouche on my barb...mebbe I run it again tonight on my barb. Its a matter of principle now....
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    Hall of Famer Cupcake's Avatar
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    I started Deleras on my baby Barb. She's lvl 4. Held her own pretty well with a party of 3-6's. We decided to hold off on the Necro.

    I'd like to get carniflex.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Default +1 seeker +10 Falchion

    Picked up a +1 seeker (+10) falchion the other day off the AH...

    It seems like this weapon should hit pretty darn hard... SOS is still better, but for a melee type without SOS or a Bloodstone, would this come in better than say a +5 Holy Greataxe? Can someone do the math?

    +1 Seeker +10 falchion
    Crits on a 15-20
    2x on a crit
    +20 damage from seeker on a crit


    +5 Holy Greataxe
    Crits on a 19-20
    3x on a crit

    Now I'm thinking the +5 Holy GreatAxe is still better... +11 extra damage on EVERY hit (+4 from difference in plus, assuming average of 7 for 2d6 from holy), but the falchion crits 2.5x times as much, and that seeker bonus (x2) gets added to crit...

    What's the link to that weapon comparison web program?? Does it calculate seeker bonuses correctly?
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  9. #9
    Community Member D'rin's Avatar
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    Default just got carniflex

    I just got carniflex on my 8th lvl barb. Dang that is one nice weapon. I figure that will be my primary until I get the SOS or maybe cloudburst. In the hands of a dwarf you are looking at a +4 great axe with a crit range of 15-20 are 14th lvl.
    There is nothing like running around sorrowdusk one shotting ogres.

  10. #10
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Really greater banes edge out the SoS in dps in the end game.

    When your killing stuff so fast you don't even need crits, its better to just have more consistant damage.

    So +3 or better greater bane, esp with dwarven axe dmg/attack does out DPS a Sword of shadows.

    One like a +5 adamantine greater giant bane greataxe of maiming, rr dwarf would probably be best. Equiv to a +11 axe in the hands of a dwarf, and still crits often at 17-20 x3, with massive dmg +bane/maim dmg.
    SoS can max crit around 200 with pwr attack 3, bard buffs, bloodstone.
    Good greate banes getting you over 250 with all the mods.

    Then if you consider some targets have light/mod/heavy fort, the greate bane becomes far superior. Againts undeads there no comparison.

  11. #11
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    I want to see a greataxe like the sos from the new raid coming out soon, 19-20 crit x4 crit damage. The dwarves are missing out all the 2 handers from raids are greatswords.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casta View Post
    I want to see a greataxe like the sos from the new raid coming out soon, 19-20 crit x4 crit damage. The dwarves are missing out all the 2 handers from raids are greatswords.
    There was a dev post awhile back about mobs with Fortification and mention of items that could reduce someone's fortification.

    Would be kind of funny to see a 19-20/x4 great axe come out, but all of the new mobs are wearing heavy fort and wielding weapons that cut through player fortification.

    I think the dev's have caught on to the idea that we started with items that were too powerful, and just making each new mod have more powerful weapons is not the way to go. I think these new round of weapon effects (maiming, shattermantle, everbright, etc) are a result of the dev's trying to bring out new gear for everyone to play with, without having to bring out items that even more overpowering.





    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Picked up a +1 seeker (+10) falchion the other day off the AH...

    It seems like this weapon should hit pretty darn hard... SOS is still better, but for a melee type without SOS or a Bloodstone, would this come in better than say a +5 Holy Greataxe? Can someone do the math?

    +1 Seeker +10 falchion
    Crits on a 15-20
    2x on a crit
    +20 damage from seeker on a crit


    +5 Holy Greataxe
    Crits on a 19-20
    3x on a crit
    Here's a program that does calculations that seems to be pretty decent as long as you don't need many of the new enhancements.

    Here's a spreadsheet that I use to calculate damage. Takes all the new stuff into account, but not quite as easy to use as the other page and doesn't give an option for weapon speeds.

    Assuming you're level 14, have STR:38, Power Attack, and Critical Rage II - fighting Gianthold mobs with an AC of 40ish, and mobs that take full damage from the Holy on the axe, I get the following for HP damage / Round:
    Code:
    		Unbuffed	Buffed
    Falchion	151.33		185.37
    GreatAxe	169.58		219.45
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  13. #13
    Community Member Jaysensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    One like a +5 adamantine greater giant bane greataxe of maiming, rr dwarf would probably be best.
    Isnt that a double suffix?

    Since Maiming takes the place of Greater Bane, I always considered it a "junk" mod. What is better, Maiming or PG?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble
    The crit range of a Rapier, the base damage of a Greatsword, and the crit multiplier of a Greataxe.
    It's the Falchion it's imitating (which does have the same threat range). The Falchion is a 2 hander though, so the SoS is the combination of the Falchion, GS, and GA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysensen View Post
    Isnt that a double suffix?

    Since Maiming takes the place of Greater Bane, I always considered it a "junk" mod. What is better, Maiming or PG?
    You're right. Greater Bane is a suffix. So that weapon cannot exist. Would be nice if it could. Maiming is only good for weapons that crit x3 or x4. A Maiming Scythe would be quite good in a Barb's hands. Add some Burst to that and you got an insane dps weapon right there. Now if Scythes would ever show up...

    SoS is nice for sure. It's actually way too good. It's not necessary for a barbarian to have one to kill stuff with amazing speed though.

    Like Shade stated, greater banes are really the best dps you can get. For non critable targets, undead, elementals, and non WF constructs this is a no brainer. Shade is also right that you can hit over 250 with some good greater banes, with the ole Bard's help of course. The Bard is the Barbarian's best friend.

    Greater banes aren't necessary though. You can pump out some incredible dps with other weapons. The higher the bonus to hit and damage though...the more damage you will deal; the more damage fuels the bigger crits. It's all about fueling the crits right now. If we ever see heavy fort on mobs, greater banes will be even better.
    Last edited by GramercyRiff; 08-09-2007 at 12:57 AM.

  15. #15
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    There was a dev post awhile back about mobs with Fortification and mention of items that could reduce someone's fortification.
    Yea that could be sweet.

    +2 greataxe of fortification rending.. -25% to targets fortification while wielding this weapon. Would rock heavy fort targets.. But vs some WF with 125% fort... It wouldn't help hehe.

    Very powerful, would be a nice raid item for mod 5.

    And pls dont post ur dumb spreadsheets here, keep them in the gneeral forum. Falchions are not allowed in this forum, much less numbers saying there even close to greataxes, pfft, no real barb would be caught dead with a falchion. Esp not one for a DPS, maybe for smiting but even then id prefer an axe.
    Last edited by Shade; 08-09-2007 at 07:29 AM.

  16. #16
    Community Member Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Yea that could be sweet.

    +2 greataxe of fortification rending.. -25% to targets fortification while wielding this weapon. Would rock heavy fort targets.. But vs some WF with 125% fort... It wouldn't help hehe.

    Very powerful, would be a nice raid item for mod 5.

    And pls dont post ur dumb spreadsheets here, keep them in the gneeral forum. Falchions are not allowed in this forum, much less numbers saying there even close to greataxes, pfft, no real barb would be caught dead with a falchion. Esp not one for a DPS, maybe for smiting but even then id prefer an axe.
    I agree, the spreadsheets are retarded as they are assuming the mob has 50000hp and never moves thus allowing the falchion to "catch up" on damage, everyone knows greataxes out perform falchions by so much it isn't even funny, and they swing so damn fast! even if the greataxe never crits it is still better!

  17. #17
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    I was going to make a new thread, but I figure I'll ask in this one.

    My question isn't geared towards the end game though.

    Currently I'm level 9 and just picked up a Carnifex, I was previously using a +2 Chaotic Greataxe of Pure Good, and I can't really tell which is the higher damaging weapon.

    I hear people suggest the Carnifex because of the high threat range, but is the extra 2 threat (I have improved critical slashing) worth the loss of the consistent 2d6 to most mobs?

    According to the damage calculator, the Chaotic of Pure good is about 15 dps more than the Carnifex, is the potential burst DPS from the higher crit range worth it?
    Last edited by Xzanthos; 08-10-2007 at 01:07 AM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Thats kinda totally different weapons.

    Anarchic only works on certain enemies, and pure good as well.. So if not as well rounded on carnifex which is great for anything you can crit.
    Also depends on your str... Id say around 32+ str to make the xtra crits carnifex gives really count and beat out nearly any other special effect type weapon in its lvl range.

    But if the mobs imune to crits and weak to anarchic such as the marut in von3, then yep the anarchi is the best wep for there.

    DPS calculators are all wrong, they dont factor half of the game dynamics in, just a bit of very basic math.

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    Thanks for the reply. Just a clarification, the prefix is Chaotic, not Anarchic, I can't recall what Anarchic does off the top of my head, so I'm not sure if it makes a difference in comparing the two.

    What type of mobs are immune to crits? I've only been playing about a month, so I'm not sure if I've run into any yet

    I currently run 32 strength double raged, which is pretty often as I've managed to stock up on rage clickies.

    I just got the Carnifex last night, and didn't get much of a chance to play around with it. In Sorrowdusk it seemed to definitely out perform the Chaotic/Good axe just for the shear fact that mobs would die in one crit, completely negating the damage I would take from the a few more consistent hits with the Chaotic/Good axe, which I was quite happy with. I'm certain that is different at higher levels though.

  20. #20
    Community Member Slayer918's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xzanthos View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Just a clarification, the prefix is Chaotic, not Anarchic, I can't recall what Anarchic does off the top of my head, so I'm not sure if it makes a difference in comparing the two.

    What type of mobs are immune to crits? I've only been playing about a month, so I'm not sure if I've run into any yet

    I currently run 32 strength double raged, which is pretty often as I've managed to stock up on rage clickies.

    I just got the Carnifex last night, and didn't get much of a chance to play around with it. In Sorrowdusk it seemed to definitely out perform the Chaotic/Good axe just for the shear fact that mobs would die in one crit, completely negating the damage I would take from the a few more consistent hits with the Chaotic/Good axe, which I was quite happy with. I'm certain that is different at higher levels though.
    Anarchic is 2d6 against lawful mobs, true chaos (what you have) is 1d6 against lawful and neutral mobs.

    Some constructs, undead, oozes are all I can really think of off the top of my head that have fortification.
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