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  1. #1
    Community Member Dworkin_of_Amber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    1,110

    Default Battle Rogue Build

    Ok, with the gutting of the Forums, I can't really see what the current "template" build should be, so I'll ask...

    Looking for a melee-oriented Rogue Build. 32 point, with +1 Dex and +1 Cha tome available. Assume the +1 CHA could be traded for WIS or INT if needed.

    Needs: Maxxed out OL/DD/Search/Hide/Move Silent/UMD. High Spot. Decent Balance. Mostly Rogue (at least Rogue 10 for Improved Evasion), 2-Weapon Fighting

    Preferences: STR-based, Decent AC (35-40 standing & unbuffed & unstanced), +6 Stat Items are ok to factor in, No Raid Loot in base build decisions.

    Not Allowed: Raid Loot, More than 2x +1 Tomes and 1750 Favor Tome

    Unimportant: Race

    Can I get some ideas?

    My thoughts are either Human (planning for the newer Human Versatility instead of Rogue Boosts, the extra Feat, and skill point/level) or Drow... halfling would be nice, but I don't think that will work.


    Idea #1: Human Rogue 13 / Fighter 1
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70 
    DDO Character Planner Home Page  
    
    Level 14 Lawful Good Human Male 
    (2 Fighter / 12 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 140 
    Spell Points: 0 
    
    BAB: 11/11/16/21 
    Fortitude: 9 
    Reflex: 13 
    Will: 3 
    
                  Starting      Ending     Feat/Enhancement 
    Abilities    Base Stats   Base Stats    Modified Stats 
    (32 Point)    (Level 1)    (Level 14)      (Level 14) 
    Strength           17             22                22 
    Dexterity          16             17                20 
    Constitution       14             14                14 
    Intelligence       11             12                11 
    Wisdom              8              8                 8 
    Charisma            8              8                 8 
    
    Tomes Used 
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 14 
     
                  Starting      Ending    Feat/Enhancement 
                 Base Skills  Base Skills  Modified Skills 
    Skills       (Level 1)    (Level 14)      (Level 14) 
    Balance            7              12               12 
    Bluff              -1             9                9 
    Concentration      2              2                2 
    Diplomacy          -1             -1               -1 
    Disable Device     5              18               27 
    Haggle             -1             5                5 
    Heal               -1             -1               -1 
    Hide               7              20               20 
    Intimidate         -1             -1               -1 
    Jump               6              21               21 
    Listen             -1             -1               -1 
    Move Silently      7              20               20 
    Open Lock          7              20               26 
    Perform            n/a            n/a              n/a 
    Repair             1              1                3 
    Search             5              18               22 
    Spot               3              14               16 
    Swim               3              6                6 
    Tumble             4              6                6 
    Use Magic Device   3              16               19 
     
    Level 1 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Balance (+4) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+4) 
    Skill: Hide (+4) 
    Skill: Jump (+3) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+4) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+4) 
    Skill: Search (+4) 
    Skill: Spot (+4) 
    Skill: Tumble (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) 
    Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers 
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting 
     
    Level 2 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Balance (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+2) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 3 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Balance (+1) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device  (+1) 
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device 
     
    Level 4 (Rogue) 
    Ability Raise: STR 
    Skill: Balance (+1) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 5 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+2) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 6 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Haggle (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device 
     
    Level 7 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Haggle (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 8 (Rogue) 
    Ability Raise: STR 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Haggle (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 9 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Haggle (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge 
     
    Level 10 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Haggle (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 11 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Haggle (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Jump (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 12 (Fighter) 
    Ability Raise: STR 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons 
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting 
     
    Level 13 (Fighter) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Devicee (+1) 
     
    Level 14 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Bluff (+1) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+3) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I 
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I 
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I 
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I 
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I 
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II 
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III 
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV 
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II 
    Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Search I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Search II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Idea #2: Drow Rogue 10 / Fighter 2 / Paladin 2

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70 
    DDO Character Planner Home Page  
    
    Level 14 Lawful Good Drow Male 
    (2 Fighter / 2 Paladin / 10 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 120 
    Spell Points: 0 
    
    BAB: 11/11/16/21 
    Fortitude: 10 
    Reflex: 13 
    Will: 3 
    
                  Starting      Ending     Feat/Enhancement 
                 Base Stats   Base Stats    Modified Stats 
    Abilities    (Level 1)    (Level 14)      (Level 14) 
    Strength           17             22                22 
    Dexterity          16             17                20 
    Constitution       10             10                10 
    Intelligence       14             14                14 
    Wisdom              8              8                 8 
    Charisma           11             12                12 
    
    Tomes Used 
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 14 
     
                  Starting      Ending    Feat/Enhancement 
                 Base Skills  Base Skills  Modified Skills 
    Skills       (Level 1)    (Level 14)      (Level 14) 
    Balance            7              20               20 
    Bluff              1              1                1 
    Concentration      0              0                0 
    Diplomacy          1              1                1 
    Disable Device     6              18               27 
    Haggle             1              2                2 
    Heal               -1             -1               -1 
    Hide               7              21               21 
    Intimidate         1              1                1 
    Jump               6              9                9 
    Listen             -1             -1               1 
    Move Silently      7              21               21 
    Open Lock          7              22               28 
    Perform            n/a            n/a              n/a 
    Repair             2              2                4 
    Search             6              18               24 
    Spot               3              15               19 
    Swim               3              6                6 
    Tumble             4              6                6 
    Use Magic Device   5              18               21 
     
    Level 1 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Balance (+4) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+4) 
    Skill: Hide (+4) 
    Skill: Jump (+3) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+4) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+4) 
    Skill: Search (+4) 
    Skill: Spot (+4) 
    Skill: Tumble (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) 
    Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers 
     
    Level 2 (Fighter) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting 
     
    Level 3 (Paladin) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device 
     
    Level 4 (Paladin) 
    Ability Raise: STR 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 5 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+4) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device  (+1) 
     
    Level 6 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+2) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+2) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+2) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device 
     
    Level 7 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+3) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+2) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 8 (Rogue) 
    Ability Raise: STR 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+2) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+2) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+2) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 9 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+2) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+2) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+2) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting 
     
    Level 10 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Balance (+3) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 11 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Balance (+3) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 12 (Rogue) 
    Ability Raise: STR 
    Skill: Balance (+3) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons 
     
    Level 13 (Rogue) 
    Skill: Balance (+2) 
    Skill: Disable Device (+1) 
    Skill: Haggle (+1) 
    Skill: Hide (+1) 
    Skill: Move Silently (+1) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Search (+1) 
    Skill: Spot (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
     
    Level 14 (Fighter) 
    Skill: Open Lock (+1) 
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) 
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting 
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III 
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I 
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II 
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I 
    Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II 
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I 
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I 
    Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor 
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I 
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Acccuracy I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III 
    Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Search I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Search II 
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I 
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

    I'm not married to either of these ideas... just some to start


    1) I like the idea of Strength-based TWF
    2) I was also thinking maybe 2 Rng instead of 2 Pal - To get Favored Enemy, TWF, Rapid Shot for free, instead of Divine Grace (although +4 to all saves would be nice)
    3) I also thought of Pal 3 / Fgt 1 for Disease/Fear Immunity... but I don't think it's really worth it.
    4) I am not opposed to pure Rogue, but it seems that MC helps get to GTWF by L14
    5) I am not stuck on all the feats either... SF: UMD and SF: DD may not be necessary... for a Human Least & Lesser Dragonmark of Passage would also be nice..

    Just some thoughts for you all to chew on and help me out with.
    Dworkin, Benedict, Gerard, Vialle, Beldin... too many to list
    Founder: Guild of Amber (Mabar/Argo)
    Now Living on Orien

  2. #2

    Default

    I really like that second build. I worked up a drow rogue 10 fighter 4 that was rather similar.

    I tended to take weapon finesse because even with good starting STR I got a couple to-hit points out of it since dex is much easier to increase for a drow/rogue.

    I have a 28pt character a bit like this at the moment. I really like him, especialy once I hit level 12 (improved crit and a couple very nice rapiers <+1 Flaming +5 sneak attack & +4 Shocking Burst Deception>. With those both in hand I can deal some hideous damage.

    BTW I've found myself just wearing a fearsome robe most of the time (except when faced with critters immune to fear). Ive compared that to running with as much AC as I can muster and I do much much better with the fearsome effect than with 9pts of armor.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
    Member of the Umber Hulks and The Madborn of Thelanis
    You can see my many builds listed in this thread.

  3. #3
    Founder Roguewiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Somewhere between evil and insanity
    Posts
    991

    Default

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Halflings Rule the WORLD!
    Level 14 Lawful Good Halfling Male
    (2 Fighter \ 12 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 140
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 11\11\16\21
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 4
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 14)           (Level 14)
    Strength             14                 19                   20
    Dexterity            16                 17                   22
    Constitution         14                 14                   14
    Intelligence         14                 15                   15
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma             12                 12                   12
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 14
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 14)          (Level 14)
    Balance               7                 19                   19
    Bluff                 1                  1                    1
    Concentration         2                  2                    2
    Diplomacy             1                  1                    1
    Disable Device        6                 19                   25
    Haggle                5                 11                   11
    Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Hide                  7                 22                   24
    Intimidate            1                  1                    1
    Jump                  6                 22                   24
    Listen               -1                 -1                    1
    Move Silently         7                 22                   24
    Open Lock             7                 22                   28
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                  2                    4
    Search                6                 19                   23
    Spot                  3                 15                   17
    Swim                  2                  5                    5
    Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      5                 18                   21
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Hide (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Rogue Search I
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion (Rogue)
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+2)
    Skill: Move Silently (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+3)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+3)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Evasion
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
    Enhancement: Rogue Search II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Using this, you can achieve (With +6 items )

    10 Base
    +1 Size
    +6 Armor bonus (from White Dragonscale Robe...not raid loot )
    +4 Deflection (From White Dragonscale Robe)
    +2 Natural Armor Ring (Invaders)
    +2 Dodge (Chaos Guards
    +9 Dex Mod (+6 dex item)
    +7 Shield Bonus

    34 Standing dual-wielding (close to what you want)
    41 Standing with Shield

    The big downside would be the fact that you would have to take fighter at level 14, to achieve the 11 BAB necessary for GTWF. Doing so, wouldn't allow you to max the number of skills you want to.

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  4. #4
    Community Member Nymie_the_Pooh's Avatar
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    I would bump Int. My first rogue was a halfling with a starting intelligence of twelve. She is level nine now. I have search capped along with rogue skill search III, way of the mechanic, rogue skill boost, and some goggles that boost my search. I forget the exact amount. There are some even level quests that I was not able to find the traps at all until I got way of the mechanic, and even then just barely. I also have a lot fewer skill points than I am really comfortable with. Through that character I have learned that intelligence is just as important, if not more important than dex for a rogue. I will never start another rogue with an intelligence under fourteen. That's my personal feelings, but intelligence is just way too important for a rogue to me.

  5. #5
    Community Member Rindalathar's Avatar
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    Default Just a little food for thought

    I did see that your not opposed to pure builds, so I'd also seriously consider it for a few reasons. I have a pure-class elven 14 (still 28 pt. build too) and he still kicks serious butt. Now upon creation I went a little heavier on str. (14) and con. (14) because I wanted him right behind the fighters for maximum sneak damage. I did have to sacrifice some Int., which for some people is a huge no-no. Personally, I've had little trouble. I still can't get the Cabal trap on elite, but it's close with a 55 search.

    Thing is, at 13 you get crippling strike (-2 str. on sneak attacks) and who knows what we're getting when the level cap goes up, since we'll get another class feat. Only pures or someone who's taken 1 splash level with most likely get any benefit from it. (Support for your first build there then).

    If you have a few tomes to use, like I had, you'd be surprised what a pure-class can do, especially in the damage category.

    I think a drow or elf make the best pure-class rogues, simply because of the racial bonuses. At that point, you're choosing between spell resist. and longswords with drow or rapiers with elves. Take Improved Crit. Piercing and you're at a 15-20 to crit. with every swing of a rapier (mmmm....wounding of puncturing raps. are unbelievable at this point).

    Anyway, just a few things to consider. Hope it helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rindalathar View Post
    Thing is, at 13 you get crippling strike (-2 str. on sneak attacks) and who knows what we're getting when the level cap goes up, since we'll get another class feat. Only pures or someone who's taken 1 splash level with most likely get any benefit from it. (Support for your first build there then).

    .
    I thought they started getting their rogue special attacks at level 11. Is this not the case?

  7. #7
    Community Member Rindalathar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llevenbaxx View Post
    I thought they started getting their rogue special attacks at level 11. Is this not the case?

    I'm not sure what you mean by "special". A rogue's sneak attack is an integral part of a rogue. He/she has this ability early and it scales up as you level (1,3,5,7,9,and 11) with the top end currently standing at 7d6 damage per sneak attack.

    A rogue's crippling strike is a class ability that kicks in at level 13. This allows a rogue to automatically inflict -2 strength damage to a target, if that target has been hit with a sneak attack.

    Does this answer your question?
    Last edited by Rindalathar; 08-09-2007 at 10:45 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Have I reposted my "Holy" Variant of my Deathdealer yet? I will if I havent....

    STR Based Rogues are tricky.... Especially if Dual Weiling due to Dex Requirements. You lose out on so much to get the STR up to a useable level.

    I fail to see the reasoning behind many of the builds as well... L10 Rogue has 5d6 Sneak Attack Damage, Plus Weapon Damage, Plus any STR Damage already.

    THe diference between a 14STR Rogue With finess vs a 28ST Rogue with Finess is 7pts of Damage per Swing... When you Hit... You give up 3-4 from your attack bonus (36Dex is Possible) over a finesse build as well.

    Edit: Reposted my Hly Variant of Leesa
    Last edited by Impaqt; 08-09-2007 at 11:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Have I reposted my "Holy" Variant of my Deathdealer yet? I will if I havent....

    STR Based Rogues are tricky.... Especially if Dual Weiling due to Dex Requirements. You lose out on so much to get the STR up to a useable level.

    I fail to see the reasoning behind many of the builds as well... L10 Rogue has 5d6 Sneak Attack Damage, Plus Weapon Damage, Plus any STR Damage already.

    THe diference between a 14STR Rogue With finess vs a 28ST Rogue with Finess is 7pts of Damage per Swing... When you Hit... You give up 3-4 from your attack bonus (36Dex is Possible) over a finesse build as well.

    Edit: Reposted my Hly Variant of Leesa
    Well, for one, it saves you from taking Weapon Finesse.

    Also, you're losing more than 7 damage (which, by the way, adds up over time). In order to use Weapon Finesse, you have to use light weapons. If you go with a high strength, you can use better weapons to deal more damage. A dwarven strength rogue with a dwarven waraxe will be dealing some pretty impressive damage (the rapier may crit more, but combine the mere x2 modifier and the lower strength, your damage will be much less).

    As long as you have enough dexterity to take the TWF chain and fill out the max dex on some good light armor...what does the super high dexterity get you aside from some skill bonuses (that are of questionable value)?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seneca Windforge View Post

    As long as you have enough dexterity to take the TWF chain and fill out the max dex on some good light armor...what does the super high dexterity get you aside from some skill bonuses (that are of questionable value)?
    It gets you a SIgnificantly better TO Hit modifier.

    THe damage your "Gain" from using heavy weapons doesnt add up as much when your missing...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    It gets you a SIgnificantly better TO Hit modifier.

    THe damage your "Gain" from using heavy weapons doesnt add up as much when your missing...
    I have a paladin that runs around with a 20 strength and doesn't have a problem connecting with enemies. A 28 strength is plenty. If you're having trouble hitting, use some simple buffs -- heroism, etc. If you still can't hit, then you're probably doing something too far over your head.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seneca Windforge View Post
    I have a paladin that runs around with a 20 strength and doesn't have a problem connecting with enemies. A 28 strength is plenty. If you're having trouble hitting, use some simple buffs -- heroism, etc. If you still can't hit, then you're probably doing something too far over your head.

    SOme folks (Myself included) believe there is no such thing as "Over your head"...... Especially once your capped.....
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  13. #13
    Community Member Dworkin_of_Amber's Avatar
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    I don't remember the exact stats at the moment (as I am at work), but I went with a Human 10 Rog / 2 Rng / 2Fgt design.

    STR: 17 + 3 (Levels) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 1 (Human Str 1) + 1 (Fighter's STR 1) + 6 (Item) = 30 (+10)
    DEX: 16 + 1 (Tome) + 3 (Rogue's Dex 3) + 6 (Item) = 26 (+8)
    CON: 12 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Human Con 1) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)
    INT: 13 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)
    WIS: 8 + 6 (Item) = 14 (+2)
    CHA: 8 + 6 (Item) = 14 (+2)

    Planned Level Progression
    Rogue @ L1
    Ranger @ L2-L3 (Get 2WeaponFighting for free)
    Rogue @ L4-L12 (Get Improved Evasion)
    Fighter @ L13-L14

    Planned Feats:
    L1 - Nimble Fingers
    L1 - Skill Focus: Disable Device
    L3 - Weapon Focus Slashing
    L6 - Toughness
    L9 - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    L12 - Improved Critical: Slashing
    L13 B - Power Critical: Slashing
    L14 B - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting


    Planned Enhancements:
    Rogue Skill Boost III
    Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
    Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Fighter Item Defense I
    Human Adaptability Constitution II
    Human Adaptability Strength I
    Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
    Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Way of the Mechanic I
    Rogue Disable Device II
    Rogue Open Lock II
    Rogue Search II
    Rogue Dexterity III
    Fighter Strength I
    Fighter Toughness I
    Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

    -------------------------

    Should work out to be a 30-Strength Two-Weapon Fighting Battle Rogue, with 4d6+6 Sneak Attack Damage, and 60% Subtle Backstabber.

    Disable Device:
    ---------------------------
    17 - Ranks
    3 - Skill Focus Disable
    2 - Nimble Fingers
    2 - Way of the Mechanic
    2 - Rogue's Disable Device 2
    2 - INT Bonus
    13 - Disable Item
    7 - +5 Thieves Tools
    4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 3
    ---------------------------
    52 Disable Device / 55 with +6 INT Item

    Search
    ---------------------------
    17 - Ranks
    2 - Way of the Mechanic
    2 - Rogue's Search 2
    2 - INT Bonus
    13 - Search Item
    4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 3
    ---------------------------
    40 Search (Is this enough?) / 43 Search with +6 INT Item

    Open Lock
    ---------------------------
    15 - Ranks
    2 - Nimble Fingers
    2 - Way of the Mechanic
    2 - Rogue's Open Lock 2
    8 - Dex Bonus
    13 - Open Item
    7 - +5 Thieves Tools
    4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 3
    ---------------------------
    53 Open Lock

    UMD
    ---------------------------
    15 - Ranks
    2 - Charisma Bonus
    3 - Golden Cartouche
    4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 4
    ---------------------------
    24 UMD - Enough to wield any race/alignment restricted items, and use Cure Mod Wands.
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