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  1. #81
    Community Member Kistilan's Avatar
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    Heyyy! I got friends at Shady J. F15 Crew Chiefs. If you know Steven Rudolph, slap him with a pimp stick and tell him no more oki h00k3r5 from SSgt Humphrey. He's been cut off.



    And to Mhykke and anyone else that wants to short-man, go ahead and short-man, but you're beating yourself with averages then. I assume everyone wants the best possible outcome, so man-up and fill that group with 12. I guarantee you'll get people that want to come. I have never had a problem with PUG'n the dragon raid. Twilight, well, if you educate, they will come. Need to elevate your fellow servermembers to your level if you want them to run with ya. This community has the skills to do the raids. Invite them and teach.

  2. #82
    Community Member Grimdiegn's Avatar
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    Well, anything that ****es Gol off make me happy so I kinda like the new system.
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  3. #83
    Community Member Mhykke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kistilan View Post
    Heyyy! I got friends at Shady J. F15 Crew Chiefs. If you know Steven Rudolph, slap him with a pimp stick and tell him no more oki h00k3r5 from SSgt Humphrey. He's been cut off.



    And to Mhykke and anyone else that wants to short-man, go ahead and short-man, but you're beating yourself with averages then. I assume everyone wants the best possible outcome, so man-up and fill that group with 12. I guarantee you'll get people that want to come. I have never had a problem with PUG'n the dragon raid. Twilight, well, if you educate, they will come. Need to elevate your fellow servermembers to your level if you want them to run with ya. This community has the skills to do the raids. Invite them and teach.
    But it's not just about "short manning" the raids, unless you consider 11 people "short manning". The moment a raid goes off w/ even 1 less than the full group, that lowers the drops. And there's a fairly significant chance that no named loot drops, at all.
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  4. #84
    Founder Gol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdiegn View Post
    Well, anything that ****es Gol off make me happy so I kinda like the new system.
    And to tie your personal satisfaction to somebody else's dissatisfaction is rather indicative of being incapable of developing your own opinion.

    Plus, as I've stated before, you don't have to worry about me after Tuesday, so you're going to have to figure out sometime soon anyway.

  5. #85
    Founder Gol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kistilan View Post
    I really don't understand how you can make that statement while wrapping yourself up in logic and math. On average there is an 8/9 chance of 1 or more pieces of named loot dropping on a full 12-man raid. On average there will be 200 named items pulled out between 100 12-man group runs. On average there will be 2,000 named items pulled out in 1,000 12-man group runs. On Average there will be 2 items per group, but some groups will take the shaft. On Average.
    Where you're right: the average of 12 man groups will be exactly as stated.
    Where you're wrong: the average group size will probably be 8-10.

    Net Result: Less Loot.

  6. #86
    Founder Osharan_Tregarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kistilan View Post
    And to Mhykke and anyone else that wants to short-man, go ahead and short-man, but you're beating yourself with averages then. I assume everyone wants the best possible outcome, so man-up and fill that group with 12. I guarantee you'll get people that want to come. I have never had a problem with PUG'n the dragon raid. Twilight, well, if you educate, they will come. Need to elevate your fellow servermembers to your level if you want them to run with ya. This community has the skills to do the raids. Invite them and teach.

    At some points, picking up extra(re:random) people for some of the raids just makes it that much harder to run. More people to heal, more chances for someone to mess things up, and more chances for someone who totally ruins the gaming experience for people to come along. Now, I have a pretty extensive friends list these days, so part of that isn't an issue for me. But it can be an issue for other people.
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  7. #87
    Community Member Kistilan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osharan Tregarth View Post
    At some points, picking up extra(re:random) people for some of the raids just makes it that much harder to run. More people to heal, more chances for someone to mess things up, and more chances for someone who totally ruins the gaming experience for people to come along. Now, I have a pretty extensive friends list these days, so part of that isn't an issue for me. But it can be an issue for other people.
    I'll roll the dice man.

    And at the end of VoN 5 I'll definitely do a "status" check to make sure people aren't about to have to leave so we're full-up on 12 players. My friend's list is good too. Maybe we just need more leaders that are well-connected leading the PUG dragon raids so we don't have non-leaders leading (ie very inept at handling any scenario and therefore leading unsuccessful wastes of time).

  8. #88
    Community Member Mhykke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kistilan View Post
    I'll roll the dice man.

    And at the end of VoN 5 I'll definitely do a "status" check to make sure people aren't about to have to leave so we're full-up on 12 players. My friend's list is good too. Maybe we just need more leaders that are well-connected leading the PUG dragon raids so we don't have non-leaders leading (ie very inept at handling any scenario and therefore leading unsuccessful wastes of time).
    But sometimes, you may have all the knowledge in the world leading the quest, if someone doesn't listen, there's nothing you can do about that. If you tell people, multiple times, don't go towards dragon when barrier drops, and they do anyway, doesn't matter how good of a leader you are, your raid is screwed w/ everyone locked out except for 1 against Velah.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gol View Post
    Where you're right: the average of 12 man groups will be exactly as stated.
    Where you're wrong: the average group size will probably be 8-10.

    Net Result: Less Loot.
    And that is okay. Many people play for reasons other than loot. And I will say AGAIN, what is the point of greater loot for a game where people can 2 and 3 man raids? Too make it easier? To haggle more plat when many people complain plat is worthless?
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  10. #90
    Community Member Mhykke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmdag4 View Post
    And that is okay. Many people play for reasons other than loot. And I will say AGAIN, what is the point of greater loot for a game where people can 2 and 3 man raids? Too make it easier? To haggle more plat when many people complain plat is worthless?
    It is ok, for those that don't play for loot.

    What about those that have been in this game a while, created all the characters they want, capped em all, done all the content on elite, etc. etc? Those people, who've done it all in game, and feel like sticking around, what about them? Should we tell em screw off? I mean, let's be honest, DDO isn't exactly swimming in players. Why destroy an aspect of the game that a certain population, a population that has played the game every way it can be played, enjoys?
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gol View Post
    I started a 4 page thread in the Dev forum tonight, but I'll copy my sentiments here...

    Pros: Fix for most of the raid exploitations. Except the VoN one that still really ****es me off. You know who you are (and so do I). I hope you all get banned. I'd name names, but meh...

    Cons: Complete total shaft of running shortman raids. DQ was a guaranteed 2 man victory and raid loot. I'm going to do that on my Cleric until mod 5, and probably never do any raid again aside from once or twice for favor. This new mechanic is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE!!!

    No, I think it's a compromise solution to many different problems. A few very good playrews short-manning raids and getting every piece of raid loot in a very short time frame. It encourages people to run larger raid parties and recreates the rarity of playres having many raid items. How does it encourage larger parties, well say 10 people go in and 3 items drop, 1 person that puled an item already has it, then it can get passed onto a player that doesn't have it.. Not into the vendor trash pile as so many items that I've seen or personally sold off as ****. It does not adress another reason some dont' like large raid parties, you knwo the one about geting people to actually shut the hell up about hwo their new robe looks nice and listen to the leader, so the darned thing will get done in less than 2 hours It also doesn't address the true problem with some fo the raids, and that's design flaws that actually allow them to be run by 1-2-3-4 players instead of an actual raid party of 6-12.

    Although I do run raids in short parties all the time, I'm not so sure that it's very goo dfro the game as a whole to have the highest level quests in the game designed so as to even ALLOW them to be run by 1-2-3-4 man parties with ease. Sure it takes some thought and skill to do it.. BUT... It really takes the challenge away from the idea of a "raid" quest.

    I believe this sytem will work in a positive way overall for the game... To be honest I see too many of the casual players left out of the raids at this point. Why because of the greed of the elitist players that want to shortman so they can run around bragging that they have every piece of raid loot in the game... Sure I may be one of those, although I'm far from actually doing it... But that's besides the point....

    At face value not a bad change in my eyes....

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmdag4 View Post
    What is the percentage of times you run a raid now and get no item? Well, you say, it depends on the number in the group and thus attempt to draw the conclusion that as you will always have a minimum of 1 item you'll get something. It doesn't. It allows a small segment of the elite players to always get something.

    The problem is that Turbine does not want to encourage small groups for Raids - it was never their intended design or intent. Just as importantly, the "guarantee" of raid loot was a mistake to begin with, in my opinion. I think Turbine has come to that conclusion as well and is attempting to make it rarer.

    With the current system, rarer loot would be a problem because players must use an honor system to divide up loot - and the stories of how this does not always happen which have appeared in these threads before.

    The new system will result in the raid loot, and players will still have a chance to transfer or trade it to other party members. It becomes more important than ever to "play nice."
    Nice post... Yes I agree....

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