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  1. #1
    Community Member Mhykke's Avatar
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    Jan 2007

    Default New Metamagic system info:

    Quote Originally Posted by Quarion View Post
    These have just cleared QA and I've appended them to yesterday's WDA.

    • NEW - The metamagic system in Dungeons and Dragons Online has undergone significant changes in Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension.

      The biggest change that casters will discover is that each metamagic feat other than Heighten Spell now has a fixed spell point cost increase rather than multiplying the spell point cost of a spell as they did before Module 5.0. These surcharges are as follows:

      Empower Spell: +15 SP
      Empower Healing Spell: +10 SP
      Enlarge Spell: +10 SP
      Eschew Materials: +2 SP
      Extend Spell: +10 SP
      Maximize Spell: +25 SP
      Quicken Spell: +10 SP
      Heighten Spell: Special (Changes base cost of your spell to that of your highest level spells)

      These cost increases are cumulative if multiple metamagic feats are active simultaneously, so a Quickened, Maximized, Enlarged Fireball would cost:
      20 (base) + 10 (Quicken) + 25 (Maximize) + 10 (Enlarge) = 65 Spell Points

      Improved Metamagic enhancements have all been changed to flat cost reductions on these surcharges. Sorcerer Improved Maximizing III, for instance, has become "Using the Maximize Spell feat costs you 9 fewer spell points." Wizard Improved Heightening II is now "Using the Heighten Spell feat costs you 2 fewer spell points per level of heightening."

  2. #2
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    Jun 2006
    Myrtle Beach, SC

    Default Hmmm....

    Without breaking out the calculator, this mostly seems to make higher level spells more relevant. There looks to be a slight penalty on the low level spells versus the current system, but not a terrible amount (although Maximize looks a bit high).

    I'm confused as to the point of this one, since the old system seemed OK to me.

    Overall first impression - "meh, so what?".


  3. #3
    Community Member DemonMage's Avatar
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    Mar 2006


    Scorching Ray = 15 SP | Empowered = 30 SP, 100% more for 50% more damage | Max = 40 SP, 166% more for 100% more damage | Combo = 55 SP, 266% more for 150% more damage

    Fireball = 20 SP | Empowered = 35 SP, 75% more for 50% more damage | Max = 45 SP, 125% more for 100% more damage | Combo = 60 SP, 200% more for 150% more damage

    Firewall = 25 SP | Empowered = 40 SP, 60% more for 50% more damage | Max = 50 SP, 100% more for 100% more damage | Combo = 65 SP, 160%% more for 150% more damage

    Cone of Cold = 30 SP | Empowered = 45 SP, 50% more for 50% more damage | Max = 55 SP, 83% more for 100% more damage | Combo = 70 SP, 133% more for 150% more damage
    Was what I came up with. Makes me want per-spell metamagic even more now. I'm really liking the changes overal. Scorching Ray is actually more efficient fully buffed (55 vs 60). Would love to keep CoC maxed/empowered all the time, so that when I need to throw it out, it's going to be a powerful one. Without having everything always maxed/empowered.

    [Edit] Meh all my combo numbers were off as I made a mistake on Scorching Ray and was being lazy, sorry.
    Last edited by DemonMage; 07-31-2007 at 09:07 PM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member RandomToon's Avatar
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    Nov 2006


    Overall, makes higher level spells easier on the SP total. Makes buffing somewhat more costly on extended low level spells.

    Previously, it cost 15 for level 1 and 23 for level 2 spells extended. Now they will cost 20 and 25 respectively, for a net reduction of -5 and -2 SP per spell. Buffing a full party with each elemental resist and blur (36 level 2 spells), then myself with shield, nightshield, jump, and expeditious retreat (4 spells) costs me a total 92 more spell points than before for that casting routine. Not a big deal at 14, but a pretty big deal at level 7...
    Cost of extending level 3 spells remains the same with a reduction of 0.
    Higher level spells become cheaper:
    Lvl Cost
    1 +5
    2 +2
    3 +0
    4 -3
    5 -5
    6 -8
    7 -10
    8 -13
    9 -15
    Good news for higher level spells, but not so good for lower level ones like resist...
    Last edited by RandomToon; 08-01-2007 at 12:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member RandomToon's Avatar
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    Nov 2006


    ---Maximize/Empower (assuming no equipment/enhancements)
    The big change here is that spells are cheaper to cast. You get way more castings, since the spell point reduction is so large.
    Costs to cast with empower/maximize are cheaper, except for level 1 spells.
    Compared with version 4.2:

    Lvl Cost for Empower/Maximize Per Spell
    1 +5/+5
    2 +0/-5
    3 -5/-15
    4 -10/-25
    5 -15/-35
    6 -20/-45
    7 -25/-55
    8 -30/-65
    9 -35/-75

    This one is where the meat is. It makes casters VERY powerful. In the 4.2 version, you generally had to sacrifice mana efficieny for burst damage. Here is what I mean - lets assume that you had a level 1 spell that did 10 damage. You would have a Damage Per Spell Point (DPSP) of 1 and 100% Spell Point Efficeny (SPE). When you would Empower that spell under 4.2, you would do .75 DPSP, meaning you had a (SPE) of 75%. When under 4.2 Maximize, you did .67 DPSP, for an SPE of 67%. This pretty much holds true regradless of the spell level.

    Example for 4.2:
    I cast firewall. It normally does 22 damage and costs 25 SP, so has a DPSP of .88 and SPE of 100%.
    If I cast the same firewall under empower, it does 33 damage and costs 50 SP, so has a DPSP of .66 and a SPE of 75%
    If I cast the same firewall under maximize. it does 44 damage and costs 75 SP, so has a DPSP of .59 and a SPE of 67%

    With the version 5 system, you get higher DPSP and higher SPE the higher the level of spell. Eventually, you break 100% efficiency, and all you need to do is avoid overkilling mobs. Maximize and Empower are actually WORSE for casting level 1 spells though, as compared to version 4.2.

    Example for 5.0
    I cast firewall. It normally does 22 damage and costs 25 SP, so has a DPSP of .88 and SPE of 100%.
    If I cast the same firewall under empower, it does 33 damage and costs 40 SP, so has a DPSP of .83 and a SPE of 94%
    If I cast the same firewall under maximize. it does 44 damage and costs 50 SP, so has a DPSP of .88 and a SPE of 100%

    Notice that you now deal exactly the same damage per mana under maximize? And you kill stuff faster too...

    ---More Numbers...
    Lets assume that none of the spell damage is changing. Lets look at Spell Point Efficiency as it related to damage. Remeber, this is the ratio of damage that you do per spell point when empowered/maximized as compared to base:

    Lvl Spell Poing Efficiency
    ~ .75/.67 Regardless of Spell Level for 4.2
    1 .6/.57
    2 .75/.75
    3 .85/.88
    4 .94/1
    5 1/1.09
    6 1.05/1.17
    7 1.09/1.23
    8 1.13/1.29
    9 1.15/1.33

    Basically, as long as you aren't going to kill a mob outright, it is always better to Empower a fifth level or higher damage spell, and Maximize a fouth level or higher spell. Also, if Maximize won't kill it outright, it is always better to maximize third level or higher spells as opposed to empower.

    Of course, this is without factoring in items, enhancements, resistances, vulnerabilities, etc. and doesn't consider doing Maximize AND Empower, just one or the other...
    Overall, caster damage per second is the same, we can just cast twice as many Maximized Delayed Blast Fireballs =)

    Disclaimer - I am a product of the public school system. You have been warned...
    Last edited by RandomToon; 08-01-2007 at 01:39 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Lucian_Navarro's Avatar
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    Mar 2006

    Default My 2 Cents

    Look at the bright side!

    At least now Eschew Materials is no longer worthless!

    I just might pick it up again.

    Besides... so you take a penalty for using Maximized Magic Missiles... put a Superior Potency 1 item in one hand and a Superior Kentic Lore item in the other and settle for 1.3 megaton strike rather than a 1.6 megaton nuke.

    "The Angry Blue Faerie"
    Last edited by Lucian Navarro; 08-01-2007 at 04:35 PM.

  7. #7


    It makes stacking metamagic way better than it was, and in some cases it makes the others better.

    It does mean meta magic isn't so great with level 1 and 2 spells, but that more than balances out as you get higher level spells.

    All around: I'd say its a boon for wizards.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Aladon's Avatar
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    Mar 2006


    Hmmm. Extending buffs is just a convenience, increasing the amount of time between the inconvenience of recasting them. There is no game reason that they cannot be cast w/o being extended, then recast when they expire. So raising the cost of extending these kinds of spells adds irritation while making no difference whatsoever to the actual game outcomes. This particular subset of the announced changes doesn't seem likely to win many friends.

    Then of course there is the blinding brilliance of causing massive customer anger by nerfing spell durations of certain AOE spells to reduce their effectiveness, then making metamagic feats to extend, empower and maximize said spells cheaper.

    With these regular and seemingly carefully planned blows to customer morale, we'd best get prepared for player exodus and server merges in the future. No wait...

    Seriously, Turbine, from up here in the cheap seats some of these changes just seem like annoying fiddling with a long established system. It is clear in the last several updates that good and thoughful changes have been made. But at the same time other changes have taken place that seem marginal, contradictory and ill-considered. Since it's pretty clear your resources for this game are shrinking (or so one would deduce from server merge), perhaps a better plan would be to focus on bread and butter improvements to player experience (like, for example, the much needed and appreciated improvement to the auction interface) and on additional content. Messing with the core game system at this point seems petty, wasteful and unwise.

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