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  1. #1
    Community Member Relenthe's Avatar
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    Default Is my wiz doomed?

    I made a drow wizard 2 weeks ago with starting stats 18 dex and 20 int and 8 con, thinking that i would make up for that con with thoughness and its enhancements, but ive soon figured out that wizards dont get an enhancement to the toughness feat, so when im lvl 14 the feat will have given me only 17hp.

    Should i reroll this wizard or continue on with 8 con and the feat or exchange toughness for a better feat and try to survive with 8 con + items?

  2. #2
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    I vote reroll. Mages don't need dexterity.

  3. #3
    Community Member MrWizard's Avatar
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    No, don't reroll him.

    You will be fine. And you will find +6 con items and a con tome as you go.

    You do not need a gazillion hit points...and even with the 8 con, once you add all the other stuff you will be around 150 or so...more than enough.

    Your ac will be much better with your dex, and you can use ranged weapons even....and multi as a rogue for a level also....

    If neutral you can wear the stability stuff to increase AC, and you can find some great bracers as you go along.

    I have a wiz I played with, just to mess around, who has max dex and int...

    and 8 everything else just about....

    He is fine.

    You are still powerful, now you are just harder to hit.

    It is like the old battle...

    fighter: I have 400 hit points and a 28 ac
    fighter 2: I have 2288 hit points but a 51 AC

    which one would the cleric want to be with?

    You are easy to heal and easy to raise...and your dex should help you quite a bit..

    Have fun with him, just do not melee a lot....
    Cannon fodder build The Stalwart Defender, Raid Tank
    Worst Shroud PUG EVER!!!!!! Epic Fail (started 1/13/10, necro'd 3/9/10, 4/20/10, raised dead 3/ 9/11, necro'd 4/9/11, 5/28/11, fame petition necro 8/5/11, necro'd 9/30/11, KIA 10/3/11, True reincarnated famed (by cleric Cordovan) 10/4/11,

  4. #4
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    Reroll. AC on a mage is completely irrelevant.

  5. #5
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    Default Bleh

    Somehow my old post disappeared. In it, I included all kinds of insightful information on the OP's conundrum, and also happened to include the secret of eternal life and an easy way for men to understand women. I don't feel like typing it all out again, but let's do the short version and answer the original question:

    You aren't screwed. I recommend 12 or 14 Con for a wizard, but mine only started with 10 and he's working out great. Just keep your Con item up to date and don't be an aggro monkey. Expect to die occasionally no matter what - but who doesn't?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    Reroll. AC on a mage is completely irrelevant.
    I vote reroll too.

    In the current end-game particularly, under 150-ish hitpoints is bad news... You'll have a tough time keeping yourself alive in the demon queen and reaver, and dying is more penal on a wizard than a fighter as you have more buffs to recast.

    Each death at minimum costs you 100 spellpoints to rebuff.

    And Aspenor is right; you'll always have better things to do with your equipment slots than wear +AC items, so the extra few dex AC mean that instead of getting hit on a 2 or better... You'll get hit on a 2 or better.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averroes View Post
    And Aspenor is right; you'll always have better things to do with your equipment slots than wear +AC items, so the extra few dex AC mean that instead of getting hit on a 2 or better... You'll get hit on a 2 or better.
    Exactly. Casters in DDO need two things as defense: DR via magical means (displacement, stoneskin, spearblock, etc) and hit points. Expecting to die every once in a while is one thing, but dying every time you attract attention is something else. The highest AC you could ever attain as a wizard (and maintain 0% asf, which will cost you mega enhancement points) is:
    10 base
    9 Armor (+5 mithral chain)
    6 Shield (+5 light mithral shield)
    6 dex
    2 chaosguards
    5 +5 protection item
    2 Natural armor ring from invaders (few people will have the +3 from DQ)
    1 Dodge
    ----
    41 AC

    And that's with AC items taking up more than half your inventory slots. A caster with AC this high will lose the bonus DCs from bracers, will need to carry a shield (can't dual wield scepters), will have very limited slots for resistance, con, wisdom, and greater false life items.

    And the difference between 41 AC and 16 AC at endgame, Gianthold elite content is that you'll get hit on a mobs roll of 5, instead of getting hit on a 2.

    Using displacement and stoneskin with a robe, I rarely get a scratch on me. I have +1 necromancy and evocation from bracers, room for the +1 to ALL dcs on my cloak when I get the Stormreaver's Napkin, room for a greater false life belt, +5 con item, +5 wisdom, fearsome/heavy fort on the robe (the above AC wizard has NO fortification..ouch). Not only that, I have over 100 more hit points than the AC wizard, who will commonly get crit for 80 points of damage.

  8. #8
    Community Member MrWizard's Avatar
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    Well....

    8 con
    +5 con item
    +1 tome
    ----
    14 con


    10 starting ac
    +6 armor bracers
    +5/6 Deflection bonus
    +7 dex bonus (18 + 6 item or +5 and a tome
    +? Natural armor bonus (does it stack)
    ----
    29+ac, plus blur, stone, etc...

    I am sure some items like chaos guards or something else can stack it up a bit too...so good ac for a caster with blur on....

    not an ac specialitst, by my mages, even at low levels without buffs are usually 21-25 ac..

    Doesn't do much when a 51 does not help...but add a nice heavy fort on and I survive a lot of hits...its the traps that get me bad....but my dex gives me a great reflex on that..(not much saves you on damage from a trap)

    try the dex build, get repeating wounding puncturing crossbow too.....fun times with enlarged hold..
    Last edited by MrWizard; 07-30-2007 at 07:01 PM.
    Cannon fodder build The Stalwart Defender, Raid Tank
    Worst Shroud PUG EVER!!!!!! Epic Fail (started 1/13/10, necro'd 3/9/10, 4/20/10, raised dead 3/ 9/11, necro'd 4/9/11, 5/28/11, fame petition necro 8/5/11, necro'd 9/30/11, KIA 10/3/11, True reincarnated famed (by cleric Cordovan) 10/4/11,

  9. #9
    Community Member Relenthe's Avatar
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    ok i read al your guys input, and i think im going to have to go with the side of not rerolling, and accepting that 8 con + item and tomes is enough, thank you for all your input.

  10. #10

    Default Yay no Reroll

    I made a Drow Wizard myself, tossed in a level of Ranger for soloing some things. (Cure wands, with some swords, weapon finese for when I wanted to feel super kickbutt and slay some Kobolds)

    Around level 6 I realized I for got to give myself some con. (Capped int and dex) to date (Capped char 13 wiz/1 rng) I haven't had any problems. HPs are only an issue if your getting hit. I'm mostly a buffing wizard (My sorc nukes) with the occasional damage spells, so getting a whole bunch of aggro has never been an issue for me.

  11. #11
    Community Member crimsonretribution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    The highest AC you could ever attain as a wizard (and maintain 0% asf, which will cost you mega enhancement points) is:
    10 base
    9 Armor (+5 mithral chain)
    6 Shield (+5 light mithral shield)
    6 dex
    2 chaosguards
    5 +5 protection item
    2 Natural armor ring from invaders (few people will have the +3 from DQ)
    1 Dodge
    ----
    41 AC
    That's... so wrong. We're gonna go with 5% ASF though because FP is my friend, and the AC will make it WELL worth failing 5% of the time...

    10 Base
    13 Armor (+5 Mithral FP)
    6 shield (+5 Light Mithral Shield)
    5 Dex (Mithral FP, Daggertooth's Belt)
    2 Chaosgardes
    3 Natural (Barkskin pots?)
    5 Protection
    1 Dodge
    3 Chattering Ring
    1 Haste

    That gives you 49; blocking with a tower shield: 53. 55 with a Ranger's barkskin, 59 with a Paladin. You're going to have to be an elf for the Arcane Fluidity enhancements and you'll need the Seven Fingered Gloves.

    Weapon: Superior Potency VI, Swap out Scepter of the Magi for buffs
    Shield: +5 Light Mithral Shield/+5 Mithral Tower Shield
    Body: +5 Mithral FP
    Arms: Chaosgardes
    Ring: Chattering Ring
    Ring: +5 Protection
    Boots: Feather Falling
    Hands: Seven Fingered Gloves
    Belt: Daggertooth's Belt
    Cloak: Stormreaver's Napkin
    Trinket: Kardin's Eye
    Neck: +5/6 Con Necklace
    Head: Black Dragon Helm
    Goggles: Visor of Concentration (+10 concentration, some other stuff)/Sandblast Goggles (Or whatever the perma-blur goggles are called)

    Use a wand/potions for +4 WIS/STR/CHA and you'll be fine. Another option is the Titan Belt instead of the Daggertooth's Belt, but then you lose out on 2 AC.

    Edit: And with this build, all you need is 12 base DEX, +2 Enhancement (elf), +5 item, +1 tome, which allows you to spend some points on CON

    It is possible with 10 DEX though, 2 Enhancement, +6 item, +2 tome.

    Edit: If you started with 14+ DEX, you won't need to use a DEX item, just Cat's Grace, which will free up your helm for Wizardry IV/V/VI, STR, CHA, or WIS
    Last edited by crimsonretribution; 07-31-2007 at 02:24 AM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Relenthe's Avatar
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    what class do you need to splash in to let the wiz wear armour?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonretribution View Post
    That's... so wrong. We're gonna go with 5% ASF though because FP is my friend, and the AC will make it WELL worth failing 5% of the time...

    10 Base
    13 Armor (+5 Mithral FP)
    6 shield (+5 Light Mithral Shield)
    5 Dex (Mithral FP, Daggertooth's Belt)
    2 Chaosgardes
    3 Natural (Barkskin pots?)
    5 Protection
    1 Dodge
    3 Chattering Ring
    1 Haste

    That gives you 49; blocking with a tower shield: 53. 55 with a Ranger's barkskin, 59 with a Paladin. You're going to have to be an elf for the Arcane Fluidity enhancements and you'll need the Seven Fingered Gloves.

    Weapon: Superior Potency VI, Swap out Scepter of the Magi for buffs
    Shield: +5 Light Mithral Shield/+5 Mithral Tower Shield
    Body: +5 Mithral FP
    Arms: Chaosgardes
    Ring: Chattering Ring
    Ring: +5 Protection
    Boots: Feather Falling
    Hands: Seven Fingered Gloves
    Belt: Daggertooth's Belt
    Cloak: Stormreaver's Napkin
    Trinket: Kardin's Eye
    Neck: +5/6 Con Necklace
    Head: Black Dragon Helm
    Goggles: Visor of Concentration (+10 concentration, some other stuff)/Sandblast Goggles (Or whatever the perma-blur goggles are called)

    Use a wand/potions for +4 WIS/STR/CHA and you'll be fine. Another option is the Titan Belt instead of the Daggertooth's Belt, but then you lose out on 2 AC.

    Edit: And with this build, all you need is 12 base DEX, +2 Enhancement (elf), +5 item, +1 tome, which allows you to spend some points on CON

    It is possible with 10 DEX though, 2 Enhancement, +6 item, +2 tome.

    Edit: If you started with 14+ DEX, you won't need to use a DEX item, just Cat's Grace, which will free up your helm for Wizardry IV/V/VI, STR, CHA, or WIS
    ROFL you just assumed somebody has ready access to hand a +5 mithral full plate, chattering ring, 7 fingered gloves and a daggertooths belt to a wizard.
    *removed possible personal insult*
    No offense, but that assumption is fallacious, and completely out of hand. Try being REALISTIC with a build for the new guy, and not coming up with some specialty build out of your rear end just to try proving me wrong.

    I could have come up with all that, but I had the assumption of 0% ASF. Notice it in my original post? Yeah, thanks for reading. Reading Comprehension ftw.

    btw-your AC means nothing when you get one shotted, which will happen often...NO HIT POINTS.
    Last edited by Aspenor; 07-31-2007 at 07:27 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relenthe View Post
    ok i read al your guys input, and i think im going to have to go with the side of not rerolling, and accepting that 8 con + item and tomes is enough, thank you for all your input.
    Have fun dying regularly

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonretribution View Post
    /Sandblast Goggles (Or whatever the perma-blur goggles are called)
    Sandblast goggles are useless for a mage. True seeing does not matter for a mage, it does not give perma blur, it is permanent true seeing. Thanks for playing though.

  16. #16

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    Low HP /= Death for an arcane caster. Perhaps for a tank, a rogue, or a ranger. But between False life (+20 HP) and herosim (or greater herosim) those rare times a monster hits you you can always keep your life up. During quests I always keep false life up. On the rare occassions when I am hit I recast.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    Although I personally prefer CON based casters all the way ..

    AC? Who cares about AC? I would have thought reflex save and attack bonus would be the two things to salvage out of this. With Elven dex enhancements you will be taking less damage from AOE spells than the CON wizard.

  18. #18
    Community Member FoxOne's Avatar
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    Default reroll

    a caster with dex is useless + your spell failure rises with armor.no brainer really.

  19. #19
    Community Member crimsonretribution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    ROFL you just assumed somebody has ready access to hand a +5 mithral full plate, chattering ring, 7 fingered gloves and a daggertooths belt to a wizard.
    *removed possible personal insult*
    No offense, but that assumption is fallacious, and completely out of hand. Try being REALISTIC with a build for the new guy, and not coming up with some specialty build out of your rear end just to try proving me wrong.

    I could have come up with all that, but I had the assumption of 0% ASF. Notice it in my original post? Yeah, thanks for reading. Reading Comprehension ftw.

    btw-your AC means nothing when you get one shotted, which will happen often...NO HIT POINTS.
    If you're gonna pull off an armored wizard, it's going to take time. I was simply saying that's the max ac you can get. More realistically, yes, you can go to +4/5 Mithral Chain Shirts and have no UMD while using them (since you have the elven feats)

    And wow, calm down. You can still get way more than 41 AC with 0% ASF too, since a +5 armor robe and really high dex (16 base, +5 item, +2 enhancement, +1 tome) will get you +7 (+8 is possible, but I wouldn't dare mention a +2 tome because that would be fallacious!) for dex bonus, almost equal to the +5 MFP. Another possibility is the Titan Half-Plate, since that only has 10% ASF too. In fact, since I'm already fallacious, now I'll just go insane and say we're going to assume they can get +5 Twilight Mithral FP!

    When building your character you need to build it with an end goal in mind. Of course he won't have +5 MFP as soon as he hits level 8, but it's something to work towards, something to keep him playing. If you know you can always get a little better, you have motivation to try harder.

    Doing Titan runs is EASY now, so getting a Chattering Ring isn't entirely ridiculous, but yes, it will take time. Same with the Seven Fingered Gloves, but those seem to drop more often AND your group will more readily give them to a caster.

    HP isn't an issue at all, because like I said, DEX only has to be at 12 (+1 tome for dodge), which means that CON can start at 16. With 22 CON (16 base, +5 item, +1 tome), False life (spell), Aid (potion), and 150 Agents favor, HP will not be an issue. If I'm not mistaken that's 170+31 HP, pair that with constant blur (spell) as insurance and you'll be fine.

    If you know how to play right you won't die often. Use potions when needed, but CC is much more useful than pure damage most of the time. Banishment, Flesh to Stone, Dancing Sphere, and Finger are all extremely useful, and none of those will result in you getting 'agro'. Although this build WILL allow a caster to cast a maximized/empowered wall of fire, displace themselves, and just turtle up behind a tower shield and survive.

    And as for the goggles, sorry, I made a simple mistake, something I'm sure you've never done though.

    Also, I perfectly understand you being rude to me, but why be a jerk to the OP? All he was asking for was some advice, not some snide remarks.

  20. #20
    Community Member crimsonretribution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relenthe View Post
    what class do you need to splash in to let the wiz wear armour?
    You don't need the armor feats because all they do is give you an attack and skill penalty (I think there's a skill penalty at least), neither of which are important for a wizard.

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