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  1. #1
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    Default Dwarven Enhancements

    I do not know about every other Dwarf out there but I personally feel slighted majorly by Turbine's change to our "Search" enhancement. Dwarves have an intuition with Stone and its workings. This includes secret doors, hidden compartments and even traps found within the stones itself. The fact they took away our Dwarven "Search" enhancement which I think was called stonecunning or something like that and Gave us Kundak Search is not a big deal except they FORCE us to take feats to get these.

    So they took away our Racial Search in order to mplement Dragonmarks and give us Kundark Search. But let's be completely honest how utterly and completely worthless are the abilities of the Dragonmarks of Warding.... a little worthless fire trap for, if I figuerd it out correctly, 2d4 damage, Glyph of Warding for yet more fire damage and then there is greater Glyph of warding for even more fire damage.. what exactly does magical floating runes have to do with stone. Yes I understand the fact of Dragonmark of "warding" but the effects are horrible in the playing environment when compared to other dragonmarks... heals, trapsortations, combat prowless and stealthly stuff for pathetically damaging traps... which they force Dwarven Rogues to take IF they want a higher search... can you say no Dwarf = red-headed step-child.

    Show us some love Turbine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drailog View Post
    I do not know about every other Dwarf out there but I personally feel slighted majorly by Turbine's change to our "Search" enhancement. Dwarves have an intuition with Stone and its workings. This includes secret doors, hidden compartments and even traps found within the stones itself. The fact they took away our Dwarven "Search" enhancement which I think was called stonecunning or something like that and Gave us Kundak Search is not a big deal except they FORCE us to take feats to get these.

    So they took away our Racial Search in order to mplement Dragonmarks and give us Kundark Search. But let's be completely honest how utterly and completely worthless are the abilities of the Dragonmarks of Warding.... a little worthless fire trap for, if I figuerd it out correctly, 2d4 damage, Glyph of Warding for yet more fire damage and then there is greater Glyph of warding for even more fire damage.. what exactly does magical floating runes have to do with stone. Yes I understand the fact of Dragonmark of "warding" but the effects are horrible in the playing environment when compared to other dragonmarks... heals, trapsortations, combat prowless and stealthly stuff for pathetically damaging traps... which they force Dwarven Rogues to take IF they want a higher search... can you say no Dwarf = red-headed step-child.

    Show us some love Turbine

    Dwarves get PLENTY of love in DDO....in fact, they make the best _____ for like 2/3 of the classes in DDO...
    Argonnessen | Legendary Knights of Mabar | Couresan | Courage | Plat | Torgo

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by oronisi View Post
    Dwarves get PLENTY of love in DDO....in fact, they make the best _____ for like 2/3 of the classes in DDO...
    That is because the people playing the Dwarves know what they are doing.



    Barbarian - a good pick due to high Con
    Bard - Not really a good pick due to low Cha
    Cleric - Enhancements try to make up for NO racial Follower enhancement AND low Cha hurts some
    Fighter - a good pick due to high Con
    Paladin - Enhancements try to make up for NO racial Follower enhancement AND low Cha hurts some
    Ranger - nothing of benefit here from a Dwarf to my knowledge
    Rogue - High Con for more survivability, low Cha for pained UMD, No more Stonecunning for search now forced to take crappy Dragonmark feats for Kundark Search enhancements.
    Sorcerer - Low Cha for the lose
    Wizard - um yeah.. high con I guess helps when you **** the mob off.... for a whole whopping 14 extra HP with no armor class.


    so it looks like we are good at melee type classes. NOT 2/3... 1/2 with a hit to 2 of the 4
    Last edited by Drailog; 07-31-2007 at 04:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Twerpp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drailog View Post
    Wizard - um yeah.. high con I guess helps when you **** the mob off.... for a whole whopping 14 extra HP with no armor class.
    Hehe it adds up to a little more than 14 hit points. +2 to base CON, access to +2 more Dwarven CON, and if you take one toughness feat you can access Dwarven Toughness 1-4 for an extra 50 HP. Thats 94 hit points counting the toughness feat itself. Thats an entire extra mage lol.

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    But Twerpp as a caster would you really take a race that only supplies you with HP and takes enhancements away from your damage output?

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    Community Member Twerpp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drailog View Post
    But Twerpp as a caster would you really take a race that only supplies you with HP and takes enhancements away from your damage output?
    Well I dont usually max out any enhancement it's too expensive and you always pay for it by a sacrifice somewhere else. Just pointing out that its a lot more than 14 hp, and if you build smart Im sure you wouldnt sacrifice too much to be a little more crunchy. Any successful Dwarf Wiz's out there want to chime in?

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    Haha yeah I understand Twerp, as for successful Dwarven Wizzies... I do not think I have seen even one on Xoriat.. well what was once known as Xoriat.

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    That's really not a fair evaluation. Characters aren't 'classes', they are 'roles'. I can make a melee Wizard as easily as I can a caster Wizard (the comparable effectiveness of each is up for debate but irrelevant here). Saying a Dwarf is a bad Bard may be true for offensive caster Bards, but for buffer/melee Bards Dwarf is a bad mutha.

    Dwarves are superior for the vast majority of roles that are played in DDO.

    In response to your list, Dwarves make awesome Clerics and Paladins...everybody loves more Hit Points, Dwarven Armor Mastery can mean as much as +3 more AC, Dwarven Faith supplies more spell points, and then of course there are the axe enhancements...the -2 Cha is fairly irrelevant except for the most Cha-focused of these builds (DV-bots?)

    Dwarves may also be the best Strength-based TWF Ranger race. Again, more Hit Points, higher AC, and axe enhancements.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twerpp View Post
    Well I dont usually max out any enhancement it's too expensive and you always pay for it by a sacrifice somewhere else. Just pointing out that its a lot more than 14 hp, and if you build smart Im sure you wouldnt sacrifice too much to be a little more crunchy. Any successful Dwarf Wiz's out there want to chime in?
    A PUG the other day started asking people's hitpoints. It was amusing when my wizard had similar hitpoints as one of the fighters. The other had 400+ like they're supposed to.

    Dwarves have good enhancements, but they do cost. The second level of axe damage is 4pts, and that's only for a +1 to damage. Nice, but marginal, imo, and that's also only if you use an axe.

    The second level of con sounds good, but points might be better spent elsewhere. The saving throw ones are good, but dwarves already have good saves for free. Some people think the hp enhancements are overpowered, but that's A LOT of points needed (along with the Toughness feat itself) to make good use of them. A dwarf without Toughness or the willingness to spend 1/4 of his enhancement points on hp could arguably be more uber as a different race.

    Dwarves make good pretty much everything since everything can always use more hitpoints and saves, etc, but to say they're the best race for most classes is certainly debatable. As for the original post, he is correct that it's a little surprising there's no search enhancement.

    The thing about dwarves is even in PnP plenty of people think they should be considered a +1 level race. But, again, I think that comes more from dwarves being able to be good at pretty much any class than them necessarily being the best at a particular class and worse at another particular class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deusxmachina View Post
    The thing about dwarves is even in PnP plenty of people think they should be considered a +1 level race. But, again, I think that comes more from dwarves being able to be good at pretty much any class than them necessarily being the best at a particular class and worse at another particular class.
    hehe, yeah, -2 to a dump stat (for most classes) isn't a particularly good balancing factor.

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    the -2 Cha is honestly a bad dump stat in PnP IF your Gm does RP type stuff... but with a Negative stat in Cha people will not like you from initial meeting and it might just stay that way so you character(s) cannot find out the key information you need to press further on in the story arch. So as I said, Cha is only bad with a sucky DM
    Last edited by Drailog; 08-03-2007 at 07:40 AM.

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    Rimble can I ask you why TWF..... When you have spring attack and attack while moving with two weapons you swing as fast as someone with only one weapon. I can understand when the mob is standing still for the extra swing. But you are at a -2 to all attacks AND I have yet to find a mob, except for golems and some raid bosses, that just stand there and let you beat on them and not force you to move with them.

    With all this in mind. the only purpose of TWF in DDO for right now is the additional effect on your off hand.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drailog View Post
    Rimble can I ask you why TWF..... When you have spring attack and attack while moving with two weapons you swing as fast as someone with only one weapon. I can understand when the mob is standing still for the extra swing. But you are at a -2 to all attacks AND I have yet to find a mob, except for golems and some raid bosses, that just stand there and let you beat on them and not force you to move with them.
    You mean, why bother TWF? Or why do I think Dwarves may be the best TWFers? I think you mean why bother...?

    I'm not sure what to say about 'why bother TWF'. THF, TWF, and Sword and Board are all effective styles with different caveats for each. My TWFers get their full attacks often enough, either by standing toe-to-toe with whatever, or tripping it (high Strength AND Dwarves get an Enhancement for this too!). The new AI is kind of weird and things run up to you and circle you...just spinning in circles will give you all your attacks.

    Dual wielding the right weapons is a horrible thing to witness...Greater Banes, Wounding of Puncturing...*shudder*

    I don't know what to say, it sounds like a pretty long discussion to compare the merits of THF, TWF, and Sword and Board.

  14. #14
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    Dwarves should not be complaining about enhancement's, if anything they will be getting a nerf before another up to them. Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Armor Mastery, Dwarven Faith, Dwarven Tactics...It's really quite ridiculous how powerful turbine has made the race with these enhancements...They have now become almost the best race for all classes imho (and many other's).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LastNameRage View Post
    Dwarves should not be complaining about enhancement's, if anything they will be getting a nerf before another up to them. Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Armor Mastery, Dwarven Faith, Dwarven Tactics...It's really quite ridiculous how powerful turbine has made the race with these enhancements...They have now become almost the best race for all classes imho (and many other's).
    And yet our Dragonmark is horrible for game purposes and it is required for our search enhancement. They do not have a Dwarf type religious enhancements for Paladins like follower of the silver flame.

    As for the overpowered aspect of our enhancements.... yeah we have nice enhancements... BUT.. we cannot pick them all.. we have to be VERY specific with our builds if we want to be good at what we do. So it is not as simple as you say it is. Good enhancements means TOUGH choices.

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    I say give us our stonecunning back and start trapping doors and chests, not just the areas around the doors and chests.. this would make stonecunning null and void. for anything except secret doors in stone and traps set in stone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drailog View Post
    As for the overpowered aspect of our enhancements.... yeah we have nice enhancements... BUT.. we cannot pick them all.. we have to be VERY specific with our builds if we want to be good at what we do. So it is not as simple as you say it is. Good enhancements means TOUGH choices.
    hehehe

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    The dragonmarks do not serve very well for any of the races except in certain cases and certain builds, my Dwarven Ranger/Rouge x/1 likes the dwarven dragon mark well enough

    Seriously dwarves are extreamly well off and if I were you I would just hope they don't get hit with the nerf bat rather than ask for more.

    Currently as things stand only 3 races have tha capability of hitting the search dc of the trap in cabal on elite without access to the top of the line gear and sacrificing almost every other enhancement, Elves, Drow, & Dwarves, don't need it be happy with what they get and hope not to get nerfed back to the stone age would be my advice.
    Last edited by Hvymetal; 08-13-2007 at 01:26 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Ouch Rimble, be nice.. I am not rich.. I am just well off. As for Armor Mastery enhancements, sure it is nice but you are still heavily limited by the number of enhancements you get.....

    SOOOOOOOOO you wanna be a Dex Fighter.. sure no problem... and what's that you have +5 Mithril Chain Shirt that you were lucky enough to afford or find. Nice 9 Armor Class and 6 max dex.. hey let's take Dwarven Armor Mastery II amd Fighter's Armor Mastery II. I now can have a 10 Max Dex on my Mithril Chain Shirt but HEY I am a Dwarf and Limited to 18 starting Dex! I just spent 12 of my 56 Action Points on doing that.... ok so now I need some Con to stay alive and some Strength For damage so Fighter's Strength III for 12 Action Points and Dwarven Constitution II for 6 Action Points. So I have now used 30 of my 56 Action points.... wow now I only have 26 points left for Fighter's Toughness and Dwarven Toughness..... sooooooooo Dwarven Toughness IV for 10 points and Fighter's Toughness IV for 10 points.... hey now I only have 6 point left....


    So yeah it is nice but it is NOT as awesome as alot of people make it out to be. I now need a 30 Dex to fill my armor in so I need to start, as a Dwarf with 18 Dex spend my 3 Ability increases on it, find a +3 Dex Tome AND have a +6 Dex item to fill it in so not my Strength and Con have taken a huge hit unless I want a negative in my mental stats.... So I start out with

    Strength 16
    Dexterity 18
    Constitution 16
    Intellegence 8
    Wisdom 8
    Charisma 6

    so i have a
    Max Strength of 28 with a a +3 Tome, Ftr Str III, and +6 item
    Max Dexterity of 30 with a +3 Tome, +3 from Ability increases, and +6 item
    Max Constitution of 26 with a +2 Tome, +2 Dwv Con II, and +6 item

    so I will have approximately x HP
    20 Hero Feat
    140 14 level Fighter
    112 Con Score
    16 Toughness Feat
    50 Dwarven Toughness IV
    50 Fighter Toughness IV
    10 Argonessian Rep
    398 Total HP

    ... You might think, wow this is a nice build... but realize that this is for a tank type only or maybe a ranged fighter but sucks horribly for a Sorcerer, Wizard, Paladin, Bard, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric

    Yes Dwarves have some great enhancements but, imo, they are meant for tanking purposes because Dwarves are known for their combat prowless no matter what world you look at. So once again I say that Dwarves are NOT the best race for caster type classes unless you plan on an off-the-wall-build
    Last edited by Drailog; 08-13-2007 at 01:52 PM.

  20. #20
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drailog View Post
    So they took away our Racial Search in order to mplement Dragonmarks and give us Kundark Search.
    They did?

    Maybe they took urs.. My dwarf still has his free racial search bonus. Infact its more powerful then the PnP version too. PnP give you +2 search when you search in stone areas.. DDOs version works everywhere.

    We get +2 search for free, and the ability to enhance that further with racial enhancements.. Then if you want to go all out, you can even go the dragon mark, which stacks with all the other mods i mentioned. Good deal imo! Makes dwarf the best searchers next to drow (actualy slightly better if u get the dragonmark I think? )

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