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  1. #1
    Community Member MrWizard's Avatar
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    Default The Art of Charming

    Figured I would start a thread to help those who want to use charm learn how to more effictively at all levels.
    Hopefully others will add to this, point out better ways, and of course the habitual posters that 'hate charms' and why.

    Charm haters will post, read what they say...for the proper use of charms revolve around helping the party survive, moving them along faster for loot, and completing objectives.

    Low level charming.....

    You can only charm humanoids (humans, elfs, kobalds, hobgoblins, etc) with charm person. The third level spell 'suggestion' allows you to charm humanoids and monsters, but does not last as long. Sorcerers have to wait until 6th level (I think) to get a 3rd level spell.

    a 2nd level spell called comand undead will charm undead critters of all kinds, pick that one up.

    Useful feats include enchantment focus, necro focus (for undead charm) and heighten...heighten, if you have to pick one, is the one I would use as a Wiz...sorc I would go for enchantment focus. Heighten casts the spell as if it were as the level of your highest spells. Since wizzies progress quicker up the level ladder of spells, it is of more benefit.

    High Level Charming

    I would suggest the charm monster and dominate person spells... I find that dominate person works better on humaniods, even though they have the same will save. Also, there is a cool down involved for the spells.

    Mass suggestion and/or symbol of persuasion if you are a wizard is cool too.

    For feats, heighten and enlarge are best. Focuses and spell resistance help too. Definitely get the spell resistance enhancements at the very least.

    For low levels, the enchantments break quickly, for the high levels always carry break enchantment scrolls with you. This is in case you charm something that must die before a door opens.

    Mass charming versus individual charming.....

    Charming a group of monsters is awesome and fun...but the problem is they all pop at once too..not so good at times.
    Charming multiples also means you can pick up unwanted charms, for instance a group fo cleric casters....Having 3-5 cleric casters break charm at once is no fun at all.

    Individual charming means you can select the type you want to charm, and charm a lot of them. They seldom break at the same time and large mobs will thin themselvesl.

    Charming casters
    Unless the party is wiping, I will seldom do this...unless there are a ton of casters we are facing, then you will have to do a few of them. Charming a caster may seem great, but it is a will save and the chances, especially of a cleric, are better for a save and wasting mana. Your team should be concentrating on killing casters/clerics and so will your other charmed.

    I, if facing a group, charm the fighters and rangers. They will engage the casters and draw their aggro from the party... They will help bring down the nastiest casters and the uncharmed casters will usually take out a lot of the charmed too.

    Mobs and more mobs

    If you have a huge mob ahead...or a string of small mobs that you know will just start aggroing on the party, charm one of them using enlarge (if you have that feat)...as long as the mob does not see you, the entire group, or series of groups, will attack the charmed one.

    Once the aggro is on the charmed one, charm a few more fighters as your party attacks. The disarray and aggro of the mob will usually allow your fighters to attack unmolested for a time...this will help the tide turn your way quickly and efficiently.

    If the party is in deep trouble, just spam the heck out of the charm spells until the situation is under control.

    Uses and abuses

    If your party is awesome, and is cutting through the mobs, charming may not be necessary much at all. You can have fun with all your other spells. You will not be helping by doing charms if they do not need it.

    Charming 'just cause you can' is a waste of mana also. Charming some of a mob helps, all of a mob is not....However, if soloing or in a bad pug you can go charm crazy and have your own army.


    How to use charms

    Charms are great aggro magnets. If approaching a mob, use sneak. If you sneak good, the charms do not...thus the approaching mob will attack them and not you. This can help an overpowered group cope with a bad situation and still move forward.

    Always keep charms as far away from shrining party members as you can..tell them to wait until you are done. As soon as they break they can one shot a shrining party member or three...or worse if you had a caster charmed.

    VON3..that room, you know the one..the awful one...if you are level appropriate, it can be nasty. Charm a few of the first mob..chamr as many as you want. Let you pary jump down and kill the rest. Get set up for the second mob that will come from shrine. When ready, use break enchantment scrolls and release the charms..when the last one dies, the next mob comes out. Just charm one of them and kill the rest. Now you have the shrine, have time to heal up and prepare.
    Break enchantment on charmed guy and kill him..now the thrid group comes....do the same thing. Then the fourth is killed.

    By using charm and break enchantment, you are able to completely control the 4 waves of monsters, and your party should not have a bad time there at all. Effective use of charm and break enchantment...and a ton of mana saved by both caster and cleric...and no party wipe with xp loss.

    In the same quest, charming the earth elementals keeps the marut from wiping your party if you are having problems, as they will get the aggro pretty well.

    .....that is all for now, will add, modify this as I go....welcome to add input and I will also add it...

    Until then, good luck charming.
    Cannon fodder build The Stalwart Defender, Raid Tank
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  2. #2
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    Also dont forget that in large groups you can go charm one without aggro'ing the group and the rest will kill the charmed while your party can pick the group off one by one. No one gets hurt, and you just CC'd a group and singled killed one with one spell. Can you say super PK?

  3. #3
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    Charming casters, although difficult, is your ticket to greatly inflated spell points. It may take a few tries, but it will be well worth it (in the right situation) once you see your new caster friend flinging Hold's and Lightning Bolt's on your behalf. One charmed Kobold Shaman (on higher difficulties) can account for multiple Hold Person's from him on your behalf. Keep an eye on him though, he's gonna be really mad at you when that charm wears off.

  4. #4
    Founder Ghoste's Avatar
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    If your group doesnt mind not killing everything, or if you're soloing, charms work great for creating diversions. Charm a baddie to get aggro, then run for it.

    Here's an example.

    For mass charms, I like to charm an individual first, let a mob dogpile him,then hit the mass charm. That way you still have 1 or 2 individuals charmed when the mass breaks, and you hit a whole lot with the mass.
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  5. #5
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    When charming casters, I make sure I always use a fixed-duration charm (Suggestion). That way, you can get the party to surround them five seconds before charm breaks.

    Same applies for particularly dangerous mobs, such as Ogres at lower level, that can take a squishy out with one crit.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  6. #6
    Community Member Tous's Avatar
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    Semi-permanent charming?
    I have been experimenting with ways of charming for extended times.
    The best i have been able to come up with is casting doom on the badie fighter first (reducing saves, attack and skills by -2), then charming, then bullstrength and bears endurance and keeping it healed while it fights.

    Any better suggestions?

  7. #7
    Community Member MrWizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tous View Post
    Semi-permanent charming?
    I have been experimenting with ways of charming for extended times.
    The best i have been able to come up with is casting doom on the badie fighter first (reducing saves, attack and skills by -2), then charming, then bullstrength and bears endurance and keeping it healed while it fights.

    Any better suggestions?
    Use bestow curse? -4 to saves right? If I charm a caster he sometimes uses curse (especially kobald casters) and then I charmed the cursed ones...

    Of course, the attacks they have now are lowered and they die quicker and do less damage....ugh...win/lose...fun.
    Cannon fodder build The Stalwart Defender, Raid Tank
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  8. #8
    Founder Ghoste's Avatar
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    Depends on the group you're playing with, but im not generally concerned with duration. When I charm someone, usually I expect them to die while still charmed, or get left behind in some other way.
    My Videos Shadow Mage (ok, it's a build now)
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
    Depends on the group you're playing with, but im not generally concerned with duration. When I charm someone, usually I expect them to die while still charmed, or get left behind in some other way.
    I can never explain that to pugs.. Like they have to kill everything they see lol..

  10. #10
    Community Member Tous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
    Depends on the group you're playing with, but im not generally concerned with duration. When I charm someone, usually I expect them to die while still charmed, or get left behind in some other way.
    Its nice if I happen to be soloing a quest or a light party, otherwise I agree.

  11. #11
    Founder Ghoste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tous View Post
    Its nice if I happen to be soloing a quest or a light party, otherwise I agree.
    Usually the other way around for me. I charm less the larger the group is. For soloing, I rely on charms more than anything else. In that above vid link I posted of soloing the ore runs, the kill count at the end said:

    Raythe: 3
    Misadventure: 43
    My Videos Shadow Mage (ok, it's a build now)
    A forum post should be like a skirt - long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
    Britches and Hose kidnapped my dog and are forcing him to farm Shroud ingredients.

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