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  1. #1
    Community Member skraus1's Avatar
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    Default Suggestion: Alignment changes

    With the coming of monks, I have been thinking that there needs to be an alignment change possibility in DDO. For example, allow a dragonshard to change alignment as long as you still qualify for all your classes. For example, a ranger/rogue can change to lawful neutral but a pally/rogue couldn't because palidans must be lawful good.

    In pnp, alignment changes were possible simply by roleplaying and changing the alignment. In DDO, there needs to be some way to do this as well.

    Is there a desire for this? Yes, I think there will definitally be once monks come out as monk should mix well with finesse builds like rogues and rangers. Also, I can see some players wanting to take bard or paladin in the middle to late game but not meeting alignment restrictions.

    Only alignment changes within the allowed alignements of a class should be allowed, so no palidin/barbs and whatnot.

    This should be a fairly simple mechanic to put in and it would increase people's enjoyment of the game.

    What do you guys think about this?

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  2. #2
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    Why? doesnt fit to me. Just have to be some kind of lawful to be a monk you just want to add some monk to an old character because its new? Sorry not trying to be rude but dont need this just so some people can add the new flavor of the month to themselves. I planed for a mutli-class monk from the start plus saved a slot for one so should everyone else that wants a monk besides most of the time Lawful good is proably your best choice in ddo for an alignment. you can be a ranger or rogue/monk no problem just be lawful good or lawful netural


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  3. #3
    Community Member Deriaz's Avatar
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    Actually, it would be nice to see. Both from a viewpoint of being a Monk, and a roleplaying point of view.

    If your character becomes evil, or just more chaotic, it'd be nice to have your actual character sheet reflect it, in my opinion. So you aren't running around doing. . . Chaotic things, but you say Lawful Good.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deriaz View Post
    Actually, it would be nice to see. Both from a viewpoint of being a Monk, and a roleplaying point of view.

    If your character becomes evil, or just more chaotic, it'd be nice to have your actual character sheet reflect it, in my opinion. So you aren't running around doing. . . Chaotic things, but you say Lawful Good.

    -D
    I dont we will ever see evil and the quests dont take in to account if you act lawful or chaotic and dont see them ever doing anything to change that just to much work for the pay off.


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  5. #5
    Community Member Deriaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska d'Orien View Post
    I dont we will ever see evil and the quests dont take in to account if you act lawful or chaotic and dont see them ever doing anything to change that just to much work for the pay off.
    Well, you don't have to have "Evil" there to be evil. Ragyr, for example, I consider to be evil, though the best I can get is Chaotic Neutral. But it would still be nice to get close to it, if let's say Deriaz turned evil. I could switch him to Chaotic. . . Whatever. Chaotic Good, or Chaotic Neutral to represent the changes.

    Though seeing it in the quests as well would be nice too, now that you've brought it up.

    It might seem like too much work, but some players do appreciate the finer details. (Example: If your Intelligence is extremely low in NeverWinter Nights 1, I believe it was, your character talked like an idiot.) It doesn't always need to be huge quest chains, or uber weapons and armors, or new zones. Sometimes, little things like this make mods that much more worth it.

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  6. #6
    Community Member skraus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska d'Orien View Post
    Why? doesnt fit to me. Just have to be some kind of lawful to be a monk you just want to add some monk to an old character because its new? Sorry not trying to be rude but dont need this just so some people can add the new flavor of the month to themselves. I planed for a mutli-class monk from the start plus saved a slot for one so should everyone else that wants a monk besides most of the time
    So you expected turbine not to do anything....so this means they shouldn't do anything?

    Turbine is supposed to do things that would increase players' enjoyment, because it's a game.

    I, and I would estimate a significant proportion of others, would have their enjoyment increased by allowing this, which is allowed in core pnp as well.

    Thus, 1) I am asking turbine to try to implement this and 2) for a discussion about the topic so they can figure things out quicker.

    This, I believe, is EXACTLY what this forum is for.

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  7. #7
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    D&D does allow for alignment change. In PnP it is done through RP over time and can be as dramatic as a LG Pali turning and becoming a LE Blackguard.

    Obviously RP won't get you there in DDO but I have no problem if they allowed you to respect your alignment ONCE per char. They would then have to either allow you to only change to a compatible allignment (ie - Palis are stuck as LG, Barbs can't be Lawful) or they will have to code closer to PnP in that if you stop being a requirement you lose the associated class abilities (eg - the newly Lawful Barbarian can no longer take Barb levels and loses their rage)

    I think the alignment question and its impacts are a bit confusing for people who aren't into D&D before they get here. Even for D&D experts, I have never encountered treasure chests with so many alignment based weapons in my life in PnP so the choice matters way more here. For that reason alone one "gimme" may make sense and really doesn't hurt the game.

  8. #8
    Founder Shaamis's Avatar
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    I'm all for a one-time respec your alignment, or using a dragonshard to do it.

    because of pressing the "back" button during character creation, my Ftr/Bard is Neutral good, instead of Chaotic good, like I wanted.

    it was a careless mistake, but I didnt realize it until third level. I didnt feel like transferring all of my twinked loot, deleting character, re-making character, and re-equipping him, just to change from NG to CG.

    One time free respec for alignment: /signed.
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  9. #9
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    I am all for this, since there hasn't been any progress on the bug where alignment changes after character creation.

    I know there is debate about whether the bug exists at all... But I also know that my alignment was true neutral at 4th level and lawful good at 6th level. Now I can't wield anarchic weapons without getting a negative level.

    Devs, please add some sort of alignment respec mechanism!

    Ink

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by skraus1 View Post
    So you expected turbine not to do anything....so this means they shouldn't do anything?

    Turbine is supposed to do things that would increase players' enjoyment, because it's a game.

    I, and I would estimate a significant proportion of others, would have their enjoyment increased by allowing this, which is allowed in core pnp as well.

    Thus, 1) I am asking turbine to try to implement this and 2) for a discussion about the topic so they can figure things out quicker.

    This, I believe, is EXACTLY what this forum is for.
    What? I bet you there will not be evil!!!!!!!!! they might do an alignment switch sometime but not seeing it alignment in ddo only really determines some equipment use for now and some class restrictions still dont see it doing anything else now or ever


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inkblack View Post
    I am all for this, since there hasn't been any progress on the bug where alignment changes after character creation.

    I know there is debate about whether the bug exists at all... But I also know that my alignment was true neutral at 4th level and lawful good at 6th level. Now I can't wield anarchic weapons without getting a negative level.

    Devs, please add some sort of alignment respec mechanism!

    Ink


    Noone ever has proven that their alignment changed other then the back button bug that has since been fixed. screen shot has been asked for dozens of times would be nice if you were a neutral bard and were now lg and could be a paladin.


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  12. #12
    Community Member blah77's Avatar
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    Heh, why would alignment change not make sense? Just because your character picked one alignment initially, it doesn't mean that they *should* be stuck with it for the rest of their existance. It makes no logical sense and if anyone cares of argue this point, I will refer them to the millions of real life examples of good people turning bad and bad people reforming to become saints. Everyone goes through many experiences in their life time which may drastically alter their viewpoints, morality, or even personality thus to expect our characters to stay the same forever is silly at best.

    With that said, I personally would prefer a series of quests that will change your character's alignment upon completion. The length/content of these quests is up for debate but they should definately be soloable regardless of the class. I would even suggest that these quests be dialogue based and involves some kind puzzle/moral dilemma types of problem solving.
    Last edited by blah77; 07-11-2007 at 02:30 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blah77 View Post
    Heh, why would alignment change not make sense? Just because your character picked one alignment initially, it doesn't mean that they *should* be stuck with it for the rest of their existance. It makes no logical sense and if anyone cares of argue this point, I will refer them to the millions of real life examples of good people turning bad and bad people reforming to become saints. Everyone goes through many experiences in their life time which may drastically alter their viewpoints, morality, or even personality thus to expect our characters to stay the same forever is silly at best.

    With that said, I personally would prefer a series of quests that will change your character's alignment upon completion. The length/content of these quests is up for debate but they should definately be soloable regardless of the class. I would even suggest that these quests be dialogue based and involves some kind puzzle/moral dilemma types of problem solving.



    HUGE HUGE waste of dev time we have enough people complaining about not enough content and you would have them waste dev time on this Yeah right. The main people crying out for alignment changes are

    1. Power gamers wanting to try flavor of the month

    2. People who wont admit their alignment changed do to back button bug and they finally noticed now(should pay more attention but maybe something could be done down the road)

    3. role players who want to do this(again maybe something could be done later)


    BUT something this is a waste of time and 99% of base proably has no need or interest in it. So maybe 2 or 3 years down the road would be good


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  14. #14
    Community Member skraus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska d'Orien View Post
    The main people crying out for alignment changes are

    1. Power gamers wanting to try flavor of the month

    2. People who wont admit their alignment changed do to back button bug and they finally noticed now(should pay more attention but maybe something could be done down the road)

    3. role players who want to do this(again maybe something could be done later)
    So you claim that only powergamers, roleplayers and liars want this change? And this somehow is only 1% of the base?

    Your logic still is elluding me.

    I really don't understand why wanting to mix monk in with established characters is a bad thing for you. FYI, not everyone has to play the same way or for the same reasons.

    Personally anything where powergamers AND roleplayers both want would seem to be a good thing to me, especially if it put things more in line with PnP.

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  15. #15
    Community Member Nevthial's Avatar
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    Default Must vote against...

    Just my opinion, but , I must vote against allowing alignment changes. As stated elsewhere, it would introduce a logistical nightmare for the developers.
    As far as roleplaying is concerned, alignment changes are normally a LONG and arduous process that is governed by character actions. Again, as stated elsewhere, character actions in DDO affect NOTHING.
    My suggestion to anyone who wishes to play a different alignment is to roll up another character.......
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  16. #16
    Community Member Balthazar_No_Oni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skraus1 View Post
    With the coming of monks, I have been thinking that there needs to be an alignment change possibility in DDO. For example, allow a dragonshard to change alignment as long as you still qualify for all your classes. For example, a ranger/rogue can change to lawful neutral but a pally/rogue couldn't because palidans must be lawful good.

    In pnp, alignment changes were possible simply by roleplaying and changing the alignment. In DDO, there needs to be some way to do this as well.

    Is there a desire for this? Yes, I think there will definitally be once monks come out as monk should mix well with finesse builds like rogues and rangers. Also, I can see some players wanting to take bard or paladin in the middle to late game but not meeting alignment restrictions.

    Only alignment changes within the allowed alignements of a class should be allowed, so no palidin/barbs and whatnot.

    This should be a fairly simple mechanic to put in and it would increase people's enjoyment of the game.

    What do you guys think about this?
    Heck no, then think of all the Pal/barbs that will be floating around. SUPER BAD idea.

    Or even worse, Pal/Bard TANKS!!!! Now theres a leet tank! no, this is not a joke.
    Last edited by Balthazar No Oni; 07-11-2007 at 08:58 AM.
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  17. #17
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    One time respec (within the limits of alignment restrictions...although, a Paladin/Bard would be awesome) would be cool.

    However, on the fly, or alignment shifting...No. Too hard to code, and you would have to be careful on what you do or lose access to class features....Fallen Paladins anyone?

    DDO just needs evil alignments, that is all. I'd love to be Lawful Evil

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  18. #18
    Community Member grimblackblade's Avatar
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    I would say I'm a normal player, not a power gamer (I got about a total of 7 PoP runs in over the weekend). I would definetly like to see an alignment change option. For several reasons:

    - People/Characters change over time. It happens. Is your wife/husband the same now as they were before you got married or had kids?

    - When initially building a toon, you may have picked an alignment based on what the notes said, not with any actual playtime to realize what would be best for that build. Once you have some time playing your realize a different alignment would be better suited for your character. Same as with feats. Except that I thing changing your behavior is more realistic that all of a sudden forgetting how to multi-shot and remembering that your much tougher than everyone else (toughness).

    Not a game breaker and we already have Fred there to help. Add another option to his dialog, create a window, and follow the alignment rules (pally = lawful good).
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  19. #19
    Community Member Mad_Bombardier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roguewiz View Post
    One time respec (within the limits of alignment restrictions...although, a Paladin/Bard would be awesome) would be cool.
    True that a fallen Paladin loses all his class abilities (essentially becoming a Fighter with no bonus feats). But, a Bard can "see the light," become LG, train as a Paladin and retain his Bardic abilities. 17 or 18 Bard/3 or 2 Paladin anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
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    A bard who becomes lawful in alignment cannot progress in levels as a bard, though he retains all his bard abilities.

  20. #20
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthazar No Oni View Post
    Heck no, then think of all the Pal/barbs that will be floating around. SUPER BAD idea.

    Or even worse, Pal/Bard TANKS!!!! Now theres a leet tank! no, this is not a joke.
    That wouldnt' be allowed. They have 2 choices if they were to code this:

    1) The easy way -not allow incompatible alignments (ie - if you are a pali you can't change your alignment, if you are a barb you can't select a lawful alignment on respec)
    2) The correct under D&D rules but harder to code way - if you change to an incompatible alignment you lose linked class abilities. So for example the lawful Barb can no longer rage.

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