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  1. #1
    Community Member Azara's Avatar
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    Default Action Points, Enhancements, and why things that used to stack don't anymore?

    OK, been a while since I had played my original character who was a Bard/Sorcerer, so I didn't realize just how badly the new Enhancements had crippled her. I had built her on the 4 Enhancements Energy of the Dragonblooded, Energy of Music, Sorcerer's Charisma, and Bard's Charisma. I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I respeced her enhancements to the new system only to find that I can either buy the Sorcerer enhancements OR the Bard enhancements, but not the ones for both classes, as I had originally built her. My question to Turbine is:

    If WE are WILLING to spend the AP's for the enhancements on a multi-class character, who are YOU to tell us we can't when our money for our subscriptions pay your salary?

    I know this has probably been discussed before, but it just royally bugged me when I logged onto her for the first time in months only to find she was no longer the character I had built and that I could never even have the option to attempt to get her close to resembling that character. My personal opinion is, if a character is multi-class, and enhancements duplicate for each class, then that character should be able to purchase it once for each class if the player is willing to spend the AP's. Just a thought, but then I'm just a paying customer...

  2. #2
    Stormreach Advisor
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    The most logical way to do it would be to cumulate sorcerer and bard levels to gain access to the highest "class charisma" enhancements. It's something hsinclair said she wanted to do but hadn't time for the initial release. Unfortunately she does not work for Turbine anymore and I'm afraid we'll never see it.

    Other than that, you'll live with it, just like everyone else. And it's likely that you'll find out the new system gives you more overall than you had before.

  3. #3
    Community Member Vinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azara View Post
    OK, been a while since I had played my original character who was a Bard/Sorcerer, so I didn't realize just how badly the new Enhancements had crippled her. I had built her on the 4 Enhancements Energy of the Dragonblooded, Energy of Music, Sorcerer's Charisma, and Bard's Charisma. I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I respeced her enhancements to the new system only to find that I can either buy the Sorcerer enhancements OR the Bard enhancements, but not the ones for both classes, as I had originally built her. My question to Turbine is:

    If WE are WILLING to spend the AP's for the enhancements on a multi-class character, who are YOU to tell us we can't when our money for our subscriptions pay your salary?

    I know this has probably been discussed before, but it just royally bugged me when I logged onto her for the first time in months only to find she was no longer the character I had built and that I could never even have the option to attempt to get her close to resembling that character. My personal opinion is, if a character is multi-class, and enhancements duplicate for each class, then that character should be able to purchase it once for each class if the player is willing to spend the AP's. Just a thought, but then I'm just a paying customer...
    Who are the cops to ticket us when we speed? WE pay thier salary after all. But back on point it's not YOUR game it's thiers. You pay a subscription to play thier game. It's not YOUR cable tv it's the cable companies. I don't know your level progression with your bard/sorc but I fail to see how you are crippled since the raised SP for sorcs big time. You probably have more than when you did when you stopped playing. Give it a try you may find you're not as "crippled" as you think.

  4. #4
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    I think the point is more that after a year of playing one way, things are being drastically changed. Some for the good, some for the bad. All you can do is grit your teeth and go with it until you adapt, or you can quit the game. I usually do a little of both. Take a break for a month or so then come back to see how I like the changes made to the game (usually do to burn out, not the changes themselves).

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azara View Post
    OK, been a while since I had played my original character who was a Bard/Sorcerer, so I didn't realize just how badly the new Enhancements had crippled her. I had built her on the 4 Enhancements Energy of the Dragonblooded, Energy of Music, Sorcerer's Charisma, and Bard's Charisma. I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I respeced her enhancements to the new system only to find that I can either buy the Sorcerer enhancements OR the Bard enhancements, but not the ones for both classes, as I had originally built her. My question to Turbine is:

    If WE are WILLING to spend the AP's for the enhancements on a multi-class character, who are YOU to tell us we can't when our money for our subscriptions pay your salary?

    I know this has probably been discussed before, but it just royally bugged me when I logged onto her for the first time in months only to find she was no longer the character I had built and that I could never even have the option to attempt to get her close to resembling that character. My personal opinion is, if a character is multi-class, and enhancements duplicate for each class, then that character should be able to purchase it once for each class if the player is willing to spend the AP's. Just a thought, but then I'm just a paying customer...
    We are all paying customers. Basing your argument simply on this fact does not offer any evidence or reason to support your point of view.

    Translation of OP:
    I'm mad and I'm paying you guys and if you don't change it I'm quitting and you won't have my 15 bucks!!

    Turbine doesn't care about that sort of thing.

  6. #6
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    I'm still trying to figure out how a sorc/bard would be hurt by the new enhancement system, based on what the OP's enhancements were.
    Freeman - Human Bard - Thelanis Fulfilling my duty to the ladies of Stormreach
    Yuvben(Halfling Rogue), Acana(Drow Sorcerer), Walket(Human Cleric), Mahoukami (WF Wizard), Knicapper(Horc Fighter), Pyetr(Human Bard), Mazinger (WF Barb), and Belcar(Halfling Ranger).

  7. #7
    Community Member Mad_Bombardier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out how a sorc/bard would be hurt by the new enhancement system, based on what the OP's enhancements were.
    Not a splash MC build, but all deep MC builds were hurt by raising the level of certain enhancements. As for the OP, s/he simply doubled up on certain enhancements and can no longer do so. But, now has plenty of APs left for other things.
    Last edited by Mad_Bombardier; 07-02-2007 at 01:09 PM.

  8. #8
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    The best thing you can do is cancel your subscription and only play 1 or 2 months a year...like everyone else in this game seems to do. Think of it as a game you are testing in beta. You will only play it seriously once it is finished. I will watch the boards and play again if/when they add druids and monks to the game.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out how a sorc/bard would be hurt by the new enhancement system, based on what the OP's enhancements were.
    The enhancements were sorc charisma and bard charisma. Those enhancements no longer stack.

  10. #10
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpster View Post
    The enhancements were sorc charisma and bard charisma. Those enhancements no longer stack.
    Ahh, I didn't realize that(I don't multi-class much). I'm betting the OP originally had the second level of each, for a total of +4 to Cha, and now they can only get a +3 max.(Provided they aren't human) Of course, if the character has a fairly even level split(Which would be needed to do this), then they likely only have access to the +2 Cha enhancement in any one class, making it a net of -2 to Charisma. Of course, without knowing the actual level split, we can't say exactly what was lost.

    Still, I love the OP's argument: Since we are paying to play the game, why shouldn't we be the ones who make the rules? I mean, isn't that how it works in every other game in the world? Where's my pony?
    Freeman - Human Bard - Thelanis Fulfilling my duty to the ladies of Stormreach
    Yuvben(Halfling Rogue), Acana(Drow Sorcerer), Walket(Human Cleric), Mahoukami (WF Wizard), Knicapper(Horc Fighter), Pyetr(Human Bard), Mazinger (WF Barb), and Belcar(Halfling Ranger).

  11. #11

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    Wel... basicaly to keep the overall numbers down they had to stop class stacking. The progressive cost system means that multi classing would have subverted the cost structure entirely.

    It might not be what you want in an ideal world, but I offer this. Your character can probably be a lot better than they were with the new system. You might not have quite as many spell points or as high a Cha bonus, but by spending your points on other abbilities, you can probably save more mana than you lost, and increase the power of your spells more. All of my characters (and I have almost all multi class characters) improved dramaticaly in the new scheme. Instead of 4 so-so enhancements I have a dozen of them. Consider how each enhancement might help your character and you can probably make it stronger than it has ever been.
    Happy Host of DDOcast The Dungeons and Dragons Online Podcast
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  12. #12
    Community Member Tavok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
    Ahh, I didn't realize that(I don't multi-class much). I'm betting the OP originally had the second level of each, for a total of +4 to Cha, and now they can only get a +3 max.(Provided they aren't human) Of course, if the character has a fairly even level split(Which would be needed to do this), then they likely only have access to the +2 Cha enhancement in any one class, making it a net of -2 to Charisma. Of course, without knowing the actual level split, we can't say exactly what was lost.

    Still, I love the OP's argument: Since we are paying to play the game, why shouldn't we be the ones who make the rules? I mean, isn't that how it works in every other game in the world? Where's my pony?
    I don't think that its really a joke. We quite literally, pay their salaries. I work in the food industry and if a customer came up and asked for their hot dog with pickles and tomatoes, and I said, well I think I'm gonna put some onions and mustard on it, and if your lucky, I might throw half a pickle on there. There would obviously be some problems.

    Now I know we have different opinions than each other, which is why putting a post on the forums saying "who wants such and such to happen" would not be very useful because we would all say different things. But if something like this, which obviously is NOT game breaking, is effecting how players see the game, and in turn, PAY turbine's salaries, there is every reason to change it. I think that it is a valid point, because as you are saying "thats stupid, turbine makes it how we they want, and we sit quiet and listen". This mentallity removes the need for forums in the first place, because they shouldn't even consider our input. I don't know what change will finally send this game over the edge, but I can guarentee, whatever that change is, there will have been people on the other end, who didn't want the change, saying I told you so to all the fanbois out there.

  13. #13
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavok View Post
    I don't think that its really a joke. We quite literally, pay their salaries. I work in the food industry and if a customer came up and asked for their hot dog with pickles and tomatoes, and I said, well I think I'm gonna put some onions and mustard on it, and if your lucky, I might throw half a pickle on there. There would obviously be some problems.
    So with this analogy Turbine should develop a different version of DDO for EVERY player... That would be cost effective.

    Vordax

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  14. #14
    Community Member Kawiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavok View Post
    I don't think that its really a joke. We quite literally, pay their salaries. I work in the food industry and if a customer came up and asked for their hot dog with pickles and tomatoes, and I said, well I think I'm gonna put some onions and mustard on it, and if your lucky, I might throw half a pickle on there. There would obviously be some problems.
    What if the customer asked for his hot not made out of whatever its made out of but gave you his own recipe for make said hot dog. Would you actually alter your hot dog making recipe? Of course you would because he is paying your salary.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawiki View Post
    What if the customer asked for his hot not made out of whatever its made out of but gave you his own recipe for make said hot dog. Would you actually alter your hot dog making recipe? Of course you would because he is paying your salary.
    Id like my hotdog with liquid gold on it and to have it ride in on a unicorn.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azara View Post
    OK, been a while since I had played my original character who was a Bard/Sorcerer, so I didn't realize just how badly the new Enhancements had crippled her. I had built her on the 4 Enhancements Energy of the Dragonblooded, Energy of Music, Sorcerer's Charisma, and Bard's Charisma. I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I respeced her enhancements to the new system only to find that I can either buy the Sorcerer enhancements OR the Bard enhancements, but not the ones for both classes, as I had originally built her. My question to Turbine is:

    If WE are WILLING to spend the AP's for the enhancements on a multi-class character, who are YOU to tell us we can't when our money for our subscriptions pay your salary?

    I know this has probably been discussed before, but it just royally bugged me when I logged onto her for the first time in months only to find she was no longer the character I had built and that I could never even have the option to attempt to get her close to resembling that character. My personal opinion is, if a character is multi-class, and enhancements duplicate for each class, then that character should be able to purchase it once for each class if the player is willing to spend the AP's. Just a thought, but then I'm just a paying customer...
    Okay, I know how you feel. I had a lvl 4 sorc/4 cleric. I lost a lot of spell points. I got so frustrated that I deleted the character. Now I wish I had not. With the increases to spell points, and the bonuses increases from magic items my character would have been much better. Not only that but with the new system I could have the devotion series, and had the other sorc spell increases. Oh well maybe I will make another eventually.
    Lo there I see my father, and my mother, and my sisters and my brothers. Lo there I see the whole line of my people, all the way back to the begining, in the kingdom of Valhala, where we may live forever.

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