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  1. #1
    Community Member dragonruler's Avatar
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    Default Spell Point Increase for Clerics

    I strongly believe that the devs should increase the clerics spell points. i mean being a cleric is hard when your having to spend a ton of money on wands because you dont have enough spell points to heal throughout a quest. I mean on my lvl 5 clr that i recently made, I have given her every possible item to increase her spell points but its still not enough to last through a quest. i went through almost 15 cure mod wands because her spell points run out so fast. When i made her i gave her the highest possible wisdom so as to get more sp. Also i believe there should be a race that gives a +2 to wisdom just like how other races give a +2 to other stats. That would make things a little better for when you go to make a cleric.

  2. #2
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    SpellPoints are fine.. being L5, you have a long way to go in learning your cleric... What spells to cast when... If all your doing is sitting inthe back waiting for people to take damage.. Then yes.. You will run out of Spell Points Fast....

    QUick Tips.....

    No One Needs a Full red bar.....

    DOnt randomly throw out Buffs.... (This aplies more at higher levels) Many People have Their own resists and situational Clickies... Ask people what the Need

    Crowd Control Crowd Control and Crowd Control.... Clerics have some nicew CC spells.. Use them to mitigate damage.... One Hold Person can save several Cure Mods...
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  3. #3
    Community Member dragonruler's Avatar
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    what you said is true but even my lvl 9 clr has difficulties sometimes with sp especially quests where there are few shrines to regain mana back. i, and others that i have talked with, feel that the clr's have the most difficult time. For instance my lvl 14 wiz has 1300 sp but my friends clr has only like 950 and he did everything to get as much sp as possible too.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonruler View Post
    what you said is true but even my lvl 9 clr has difficulties sometimes with sp especially quests where there are few shrines to regain mana back. i, and others that i have talked with, feel that the clr's have the most difficult time. For instance my lvl 14 wiz has 1300 sp but my friends clr has only like 950 and he did everything to get as much sp as possible too.
    THen he absolutely did not do "Everything"At Level 14 My main cleric sits at 1,270 Spell Points ANd only has a 30 Wisdom and Pop X.

    Clerics and Wizards use the exact same Spell point table now....
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸A R C H A N G E L S °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸
    Thelanis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    We don't envision starting players with Starter Gear and zero knowledge playing on Hard or Elite.
    Sev~

  5. #5

    Default More Team Play Means Less Spell Points Needed

    I agree with the previous poster. I've run clerics since beta and with the last mod change to sp for clerics I'm hard pressed to say we need more.

    Are you running with a group that is Zerg'n through the quest? If so, there aren't enough spell points in the world to keep up.

    If you are running with a guild or a good group that follows good quest protocol (everyone will define "good" differently), you should have ample spell points.

    If you are playing your cleric as a "healbot", you will be broke and broken hearted. As a previous poster noted, you have some nice cc that will help the group significantly more than just healing.

  6. #6

    Default But.....

    If you can convince Turbine to throw a few more our way, I'll take them happily!!!!!

  7. #7
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Since the last spell point increase our clerics & wizards have been on the same SP path. That is as per the PnP SP varient and normally I like to stick with the PnP rules to keep this as close to D&D as possible.

    However...

    I have a L14 cleric and most times the SP is enough. Would it be more fun to have more...yup. Would it be really really really helpful sometimes to have more, especally in bad pugs? yup. The difference between us and PnP is that there were just never be a 500 HP L14 char in D&D. That's INSANE. Our healing therefore doesn't go as far as it should. The enhancements went a long way to address that problem, but still not far enough.

    Would I take some extra SP? sure.

    But maybe what would more sense is beefing up the enhancements a bit so that our bonuses on healing would be more in keeping with the bonuses in HP that our dwarven barbarians are getting. (no I don't mean more higher level ones, we need more healing kick at each level we have now).

  8. #8
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    Rule Number 1 as a healer, If someone expects you to spam heal them don't. Case in point, doing WW last night, My Battle Bard, Three Barbarians, a Ranger and a Sorc, halfway through part 1 I stopped healing one of the three barbarians, when asked why, cause I only got 154 Magic Points, and casting 15 heals on you doesn't help me get through the adventure. After he died once he got the idea.

    Rule Number 2 as a healer you don't have to be broke, have a budget and stick to it. My 14th Level Cleric rarely runs out of SP and has an occasional wand for Backups.

    Rule Number 3 everyone has the ability to buff themselves. Great Players very rarely need more than a buff or two. And this goes for low levels as well as high level.

    Rule Number 4 players die it not your fault.

    Jeff

  9. #9
    Founder joker965's Avatar
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    Default Well

    First, I have like 1200+ SP as a level 14 cleric. It is usually enough unless I get a little crazy and start killing everything in sight.

    Second, I don't really care what costs what at this point. If I'm in a party I do my cleric thing and try to keep everyone alive no matter what. If I'm in a group that is sucking 50 heal scrolls out of my pocket evey quest then I might get a new group. If they are a fun group I'll stay anyway. From my experience in the end quests it is usually the wiz/sorc that is sitting with 10% spell points 5 minutes into the quest because managing SP for them is not seen as life and death for the party.
    Anything that doesn't kill us can still hurt really bad.

    The Joker

  10. #10
    Community Member narizue's Avatar
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    Default Clerics don't need more spell points!!!

    Non clerics need to come to parties prepared.

    There are certain staples that all characters should have with them, these include Healing Pots, Lesser Restoration Pots, Blindness Removal Pots, Remove Curse Pots, Remove Disease Pots, and Neutralize Poison Pots. Clickies of the same effect work just fine too.

    In addition to this characters should attempt to aqquire preventative items such as blindness ward, poisonproof and disease immunity are musts after about level 7-8.

    Beyond that try to hunt down an elemental resistance item for at least one or two elements if you can't buff yourself.

    If players arrive at the quest with the right equipement, none of which is uber, then the cleric has plenty of spell points. As long as the party plays at the pace that the cleric can heal. If they don't arrive at the quest properly equiped, they had better pony up some donations, cause wands are not that cheap.

    Another tactic to assist with clerical mana is to have everyone who is not the cleric do as much of the buffing as possible. Rangers have elemental resists as a level one spell. Let them handle those. Pallies and rangers can both use wands, as can bards and anyone who has decent UMD. Let everyone share in the post fight patch up.
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  11. #11
    Stormreach Advisor
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    Default

    So everyone forgot they just increased the clerics' SPs significantly?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonruler View Post
    what you said is true but even my lvl 9 clr has difficulties sometimes with sp especially quests where there are few shrines to regain mana back. i, and others that i have talked with, feel that the clr's have the most difficult time. For instance my lvl 14 wiz has 1300 sp but my friends clr has only like 950 and he did everything to get as much sp as possible too.
    If you think you are a cast happy cleric, you can do some very simple things to help deal with that. From taking mental toughness and Imp MT for more sp to taking spell focus and spell penetration to help make sure you are not wasting many sps by having to double cast. My clr sits at 1298 with a 32 wiz and only a PoP6. It was a must I get as many sp as possible as I know I like to be more proactive in my "healing".

    Now if only they allowed clerics the improved metamagic enhancements Id be all set.

  13. #13
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tihocan View Post
    So everyone forgot they just increased the clerics' SPs significantly?
    Umm nope.

    Current SP are perfectly adequate. More than enough for most quests unless stupid is ruling the day. Enable stupid and you will breed more stupid. Curtail stupid and it dies from the gene pool.

    I cannot think of any quest run by a 5th level where it would even be possible to run through 15 wands of anything, let alone more than 1 wand

    if you really ran thru 15 wands (lets see that 50 charges/wand for about the equalvalent of 750 mana worth of healing spells per wand, that would mean to support the "play style of the group you were in" would require over 10,000 spell points for a level 5 cleric.....

    We got a problem here....or some severe exageration....
    Sarlona - The Ko Brotherhood :Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8+4E; Hennako-Human Cleric22; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15; lots more

  14. #14
    Founder Vi'Aed's Avatar
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    There is a lot of response here which is very good along the line of Clerics should expect some mana management support form the rest of the party in terms of pots, clickies, and buffs from other party members. In addition other heal capable party members (even via wands) should pitch in. That is all very true.

    Personally I would kinda like to see the problem approached from the other end. I would love to see heal/cure serious/cure critical/raise dead scrolls/wands non-buyable. There is only so much expected from a cure moderate wand. The problem, as I see it, isn't too few spell point, it is unreasonable expectations by a segment of the population.

    Personally, even when I'm not playing a cleric, it annoys the bejeezus out of me to see the two handed fighting barbarians using clerics as extended hp pools.

    Along that line, I would be very interested in some sort of temporary debuff type thing happen when a character absorbs a lot of healing. An exhaustion sort of thing or a 10 second helplessness. Something to take the onus off the healer and put it on the idiot zerger where it belongs.
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  15. #15
    Community Member narizue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llevenbaxx View Post
    I know I like to be more proactive in my "healing".
    I totally agree.
    At level 1 I was throwing out Command on tough low will save mobs(ogres).
    At level 3 it was Command, Hold Person and Soundburst
    At level 5 it was Command, Hold Person, Sound Burst as well as party buffs of Magic Circle Against Evil and/or Mass Aid
    At level 7 I add Recitation to the mix.
    At level 9 its all about Greater Command as crowd control, and other buffs as needed.
    At level 11 Cometfall, Blade Barrier, Symbol of Fear, Symbol of Persuasion, Banishment, all as needed.
    At level 13 we add in Destruction, Mass Spell Resistance etc.

    I am a huge proponent of preventative action. With proper buffs and crowd control I can avoid spending too much mana on healing and concentrate on putting the battle back into my cleric.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Oh and don't forget the Divine Enhancements like Divine Healing which uses turn attempts to power. My cleric has 10 turns and with DHIII doing about 90 points of healing a pop, that can account for a lot of healing at any level of quest.


    Facing Giants....Greater Command...facing groveling giants begging to be pounded to pulp....
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  17. #17
    Community Member Mercules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonruler View Post
    what you said is true but even my lvl 9 clr has difficulties sometimes with sp especially quests where there are few shrines to regain mana back. i, and others that i have talked with, feel that the clr's have the most difficult time. For instance my lvl 14 wiz has 1300 sp but my friends clr has only like 950 and he did everything to get as much sp as possible too.
    Level 14 Clr with 950? My level 13 has about 1K+. I don't think he did -everything- possible.
    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment."
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  18. #18
    Community Member flash145's Avatar
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    Default Nice but not necessary

    Those who play on Khyber know who I am. For those that don't, I am not bragging when I attest to having ~1400 sp on each of my clerics. This is with only pearls of power 10. For 95% of the missions I have run since I started playing in Alpha, I have never had issues with spell points. With the recent increase, I can boost the 95% number even higher.
    If you are having issues keeping up healing on your party, its the people you are running with that are at fault. Yes clerics have nice crowd control, but sorcs and wizards have even better ones. And, they have far more spell points to utilize and faster cast times on CC.
    Lastly, I will not speak for other clerics or other servers however; I have asked groups that drain my resources severly to pitch in on costs. 5-10 heal scrolls and a few charges of wand is easily recoverable. 15 wands is a serious cost investement, and the party should defray that cost. Dumping the burden on you should make you rethink running with these people again.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Grivnar's Avatar
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    I have to agree with most of the above people, I have a 25 wisdom and I still blow out about 1278 Spell points on Modelpee. If your blowing through that many wands at low level your setting a bad precedent for yourself.
    ModeleM, Cleric 13 / Wizard 1 / Fighter 1 Warforged ._._._._._._.._. ModelPee, Cleric 15 / Sorcerer 1 Warforged ,~,~.~.~.~.~..~. Rodrick, Sorcerer 15 / Ranger 1 Human [=,=,=,=,=,=,=,=,] Femalee Von Holdenstuff, 14 Wizard Warforged (/\/\/\/\/\/\/\) DINGOS ATE MY BABY, fighter 10 / rogue 1 human |_|Burning Legion Lhazaar

  20. #20
    Community Member JosephKell's Avatar
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    Healing isn't efficient. From my experience (haven't done endgame stuff yet), under most circumstances, PCs that are regularly taking rediculous amounts of damage messed up.

    But in all cases, damage prevention is fastly superior to damage repair. Greater Command puts a mob of mobs on their butts. Energy Resistance can neuter some quests (hello, f***ing Fire Caves should be a huge red light saying, "PREPARE FIRE RESISTANCE"). Mass Aid is Temp HP (pre-healing). Clerics can even team with Paladins to both Mass Aid AND Virtue the party (they stack!).

    The problem isn't Cleric Spell Points it is PUGs.

    Lately, I've been using a new measuring stick for PUGgers.

    0. You get an invite to a group without being sent a tell first. Blind Invites are a sign of a HORRIBLE group. I have never had a Blind Tell work out for the best, not even on the simplist quests.

    1. If they are in a guild, and no other guildies are in the group, they are bad.
    1b. If they are in a guild and invite you to a guild without talking with or playing with you first, they are worse.

    2. If they don't use complete sentences, they are bad. Now this doesn't necessarily apply to people that don't speak English or are ESL (Who tend to have BETTER written English), but when someone leaves out nouns/pronouns, verbs, etc. They should be avoided. I've played with non-english speakers and it has been fine. They understand requests for spell preparations and have even been able to share Fire Arrows.

    3. They are playing a Cleric or Wizard and they never prepare Energy Resistance.
    3b. They prepare Prot Energy when you specificially ask for Energy Resistance.

    -JK

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