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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by EightyFour View Post
    So now I'm going to have some bothersome box pop up every time I want to use it? I feel every time I read these the state of the game is worse and worse. And I feel as most of the things on there is just someone spinning there wheels.
    No, there'll be four different icons in your "Enhancements" window and you'll drag the ones you want to your hotbar.
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  2. #22
    Community Member The_Cataclysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EightyFour View Post
    So now I'm going to have some bothersome box pop up every time I want to use it? I feel every time I read these the state of the game is worse and worse. And I feel as most of the things on there is just someone spinning there wheels.
    If there is a pop up box you would only have to see it once see you would be able to throw the options into your hotbar.

  3. #23

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    I do agree that the Dev's need to stop changing things around so much, or come up with a total respec function if they do.

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  4. #24
    Community Member Grenfell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    While certainly helpful to fighters, I doubt this small change will affect the mindset many have that dwarves are THE race in DDO.

    Many, many players dislike boosts. Dwarves still can have a higher unboosted AC than a human.

    And of course you'll have to choose one boost to crank up, you don't get them all for one enhancement. Having ALL the boosts would be a bit too AP expensive for effectiveness.
    The way it's written, Asp, you get ALL of the boosts for one enhancement. You just can't USE all of them, or more than one at a time. But you do in fact get ALL of the boosts. Maybe I'm misreading the description, but that does seem like a really good deal to me.

    Maybe you're right -- people won't see the value of this... yet. Until the next generation builds are fully active, they won't see it.

    My problem is that practically every patch invalidates some builds and makes others stronger; maybe that's the goal, but man, in a MMO, that's just painful.

    /gren

  5. #25
    Community Member Grenfell's Avatar
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    First, most of my current guys are 32pt dwarves. I know all about Dwarf love, and the new master race.

    Second, I was just using one example of the Dwarf DEFENSIVE tank; the guys who are all about swinging greataxes (like me) aren't affected much at all. The tactics guys are still tops. The defensive tanks, I think, are hurtin' in comparison to their human counterparts.

    I'm not criticizing any particular build/race/whatever -- just pointing out that these enhancements change things.

    We'll see how dramatically they change things, but I'm already seeing some real possibilities for my battlecleric, for bard, for evasion barbarian, for arcane melees, for paladins, for straight barbs, etc. etc.

    But the point is... when does it stop? When can we get some stability in the core system so we know what to expect? Right now, I feel like every patch day is "Let's see what build got nuked" day.

    /gren

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grenfell View Post
    The way it's written, Asp, you get ALL of the boosts for one enhancement. You just can't USE all of them, or more than one at a time. But you do in fact get ALL of the boosts. Maybe I'm misreading the description, but that does seem like a really good deal to me.

    Maybe you're right -- people won't see the value of this... yet. Until the next generation builds are fully active, they won't see it.

    My problem is that practically every patch invalidates some builds and makes others stronger; maybe that's the goal, but man, in a MMO, that's just painful.

    /gren
    I agree they should try to make DDO a bit more stable that's their job, they wouldn't make something that would make us unhappy would they?

    About Dwarven Tank shaking, I don't.
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  7. #27
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    Based on the builds I've seen up to now, no one builds a character around boosts. They just don't last long enough to have a significant impact. And getting all of the boosts is a good deal, provided you plan on using boosts at all. Most builds I've look at use at most one boost, if they use any at all.

    Since you already have all the information you need, what new build is now available using HV that will overpower existing builds?
    Freeman - Human Bard - Thelanis Fulfilling my duty to the ladies of Stormreach
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  8. #28
    Community Member Pellegro's Avatar
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    I tend to think that these boosts will change the min/max analysis and builds more than maybe meets the eye now.

    I guess we'll see as the builds start coming in and the numbers get crunched.

    Regardless, as for the OP's point - I kinda like that they keep changing things around as it keeps the game fresh, and hopefully, constantly getting better.

    That said, I've *always* been a huge advocate for respecs. I'm resolved, however, to the fact that they never will permit it - not because of some slavish adherence to PnP or any of the other equally silly arguments against respecs.

    They won't let us respec (IMO) because that would mean players would not have to reroll to min/max under the new rules. If players aren't continually rerolling, you're going to end up with servers populated with nothing but capped characters (or at least, you lose out on all those potential rerolls by letting them respec).

    And that is a problem, I would think, because I suspect Turbine likes having lots of experienced players running around at the low levels so that when newbies hop on for the first month or so, they have a better experience.

  9. #29
    Community Member Mercules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grenfell View Post
    But the point is... when does it stop? When can we get some stability in the core system so we know what to expect? Right now, I feel like every patch day is "Let's see what build got nuked" day.
    Um... Gren... how many MMOs have you played on? It seems this way on most of them at least through the first year or so of growth. After a bit they all settle in a bit and the changes are only every so often but since DDO came out "lacking" a few things that probably should have been there at release I am willing to bet this flux state lasts a good deal longer.

    You make great builds Gren, but if you build on the fine line of the cutting edge you are going to find your builds slipping over that edge every so often in an MMO.
    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment."
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  10. #30
    Community Member Pellegro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
    Since you already have all the information you need, what new build is now available using HV that will overpower existing builds?
    I haven't done the numbers, but how about a bard/rogue, or even pure bard who wants to do some melee? Won't human be preferable to drow now?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grenfell View Post
    Yes, your Human Barb can now rage and hit the to-hit boost and attain to-hits that non-humans can only dream of. +5 to hit, btw, equates to +10 in Strength. For 20 secs, sure, but there it is.
    /gren
    Every game that lasts any amount of time changes. It's the duty of the players to adjust and adapt to those changes. It's ridiculous to demand that the developers of a game cease changing it.

    A +5 to hit doesn't equate to +10 STR. That is absurd. A +10 STR also would give a damage boost, a bonus to resist Trip, among other things. While +5 to hit is substantial, it's not anywhere near what +10 STR is, so don't overrate it. Also, Barbs can already get extremely high attack bonuses, so damage boost is more advantageous in almost every fight in this game. The more damage you deal, the more benefit you get from Crit Rage.

    All this does is make Humans more attractive and...versatile, which is supposed to be the strength of the race. Mission accomplished it seems to me.

  12. #32
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinwulf View Post
    I do agree that the Dev's need to stop changing things around so much, or come up with a total respec function if they do.
    I definatley agree with this.

    I do like that the devs are buffing HV up a little bit. But changing core game mechanics without a respec function is bad form.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pellegro View Post
    I haven't done the numbers, but how about a bard/rogue, or even pure bard who wants to do some melee? Won't human be preferable to drow now?
    Humans were always preferable to drow for bards, at least for me For a melee-oriented bard, the Inspired Attack and Damage lines are a much better choice, since they give +6/+6 attack and damage bonuses for over 7 minutes with the Lingering song enhancements. The AC and saves boost might be useful at times, but most bards and rogues are better off not drawing aggro in the first place. The biggest issue would be for a bard or rogue, two classes that have plenty of useful enhancements already, to try to buy the full line of HV without losing other useful enhancements. My bard currently has HV II, and I don't have any other enhancements I would give up for more boosts. Drow still get weapon enhancements as well as Dex enhancements that are on all the time, so that will have to be weighed in if you are considering them also.

    As I said earlier, this boost is an improvement, and it will have uses. I just don't see it changing the overall power dynamic in the game. It will simply be a matter of trading off HV for other enhancements.
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  14. #34
    Community Member Grenfell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercules View Post
    Um... Gren... how many MMOs have you played on? It seems this way on most of them at least through the first year or so of growth. After a bit they all settle in a bit and the changes are only every so often but since DDO came out "lacking" a few things that probably should have been there at release I am willing to bet this flux state lasts a good deal longer.

    You make great builds Gren, but if you build on the fine line of the cutting edge you are going to find your builds slipping over that edge every so often in an MMO.
    I've played a few MMO's

    Most of them don't have these sweeping changes every 6-8 weeks. You do have to admit that. You may not see these HV boosts as sweeping changes, but I do. I'm currently looking at my Dwarven BattleBard and going... hmm, that guy is probably better off as a Human under this system... maybe not enough to reroll, but... jeez. Remember when Balance was a throwaway skill? Until that rule/mechanic was changed.

    I really do think though that the flux state you mention isn't necessarily a good thing. If Turbine is willing to acknowledge the flux state, then it should by all rights provide full respecs to let us deal with the flux state.

    In most MMO's, you have sweeping changes once in a blue moon, but for the MOST part, it takes a paid expansion to introduce major game-changing things.

    /gren

  15. #35
    Community Member Boulderun's Avatar
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    I think the biggest problem with this change is the amount of space it's going to take up on the shortcut bars for people who will be using more than one of the options.
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    Still furious about the horrendous CS mismanagement of the so-called Abbot timer "exploit," and not going to let anyone forget it.

  16. #36
    Community Member Grenfell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GramercyRiff View Post
    Every game that lasts any amount of time changes. It's the duty of the players to adjust and adapt to those changes. It's ridiculous to demand that the developers of a game cease changing it.

    A +5 to hit doesn't equate to +10 STR. That is absurd. A +10 STR also would give a damage boost, a bonus to resist Trip, among other things. While +5 to hit is substantial, it's not anywhere near what +10 STR is, so don't overrate it. Also, Barbs can already get extremely high attack bonuses, so damage boost is more advantageous in almost every fight in this game. The more damage you deal, the more benefit you get from Crit Rage.
    You're misinterpreting things. +5 to hit DOES in fact equate to +10 Str when it comes to the TO HIT stat. If 40 Str = +15 to hit, then in order to get +20 to hit, you would need 50 Str.

    Plus, if Barbs can already get such great attack bonuses, then hit the damage boost, and save your Barb boosts for DR boost. Or use both, and have 10 damage boosts to go with your Crit Rage, as compared to non-human barbarians.

    Thing is, the Human Barb can get a +5 Saves boost that no other barbarian can get. Well, that now equates to a +10 Wisdom for 20 secs x 5 per rest. You don't think that's an advantage? /shrug Well, we'll see.

    /gren

  17. #37
    Founder Gol's Avatar
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    Gren, I'll make this short and to the point:

    I respectfully disagree. Humans are simply 'less gimp' for 100 seconds of questing.

  18. #38
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    I guess some of the difference we have here is what you see as a "sweeping change", others view as merely "tweaking the rules" to make an enhancement more attractive and thus a race more competitive. About the only boosts I routinely end up using are skill boosts for working traps/locks and for a boost to Haggle when buying and selling something.

    I am with many others who find clickable boosts to be a lot less important than static boosts in actual gameplay.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gol View Post
    Gren, I'll make this short and to the point:

    I respectfully disagree. Humans are simply 'less gimp' for 100 seconds of questing.
    Yeah, but we are still better looking than dwarves. No enhancement will change that
    Freeman - Human Bard - Thelanis Fulfilling my duty to the ladies of Stormreach
    Yuvben(Halfling Rogue), Acana(Drow Sorcerer), Walket(Human Cleric), Mahoukami (WF Wizard), Knicapper(Horc Fighter), Pyetr(Human Bard), Mazinger (WF Barb), and Belcar(Halfling Ranger).

  20. #40
    Community Member Tanka's Avatar
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    Gren, think of it as a balancing issue.

    Why play a non-Dwarf frontline when you can get more HP, better Tactics DCs and better AC (overall) as a Dwarf?

    Why play a Human at all when various races make for better X than a Human does?

    This is a short step towards bringing Humans back into the "we can do anything you can do" category. It isn't a big step, but a step nonetheless.
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