Rogue Mechanic Help
I'm looking to start a rogue mechanic from scratch and I'm needing help building it. First if the people helping me don't mind, I'd like to know the bonuses and faults to building one. I'm also starting at level 7 with the veteran status and I have all the races open to me. I'm just wondering how to make they great or if they are even possible to make great both early and late game. Also how to make their traps do lots of damage and be useful in dungeons both early and late game if possible. Thank you for anyone who helps me out.
3 key feats: point blank shot, precise shot, improved precise shot. Precise shot gives you archers focus..it's a combat stance.. Drop it on your hot bar and turn it on and never turn it off, Until improved precise shot. Then turn that on and try to line up the enemies and target the farthest one away and rip the apart. Intelligence/dex are the key stats. Intelligence increases your damage with your repeaters. That's a perk of mechanic. Switch between archers stance/improved precise shot. Archers if you're focusing on one guy and its for groups. You will never ever have to worry about being able to deal with traps. When you're in a group key thing is to wait for the melee to attack first and then you attack. If they're sneak attack..able.. Get close enough to unleash your ridiculous damage.
Precision is also a nice feat as well as improved critical ranged if you get precision. The damage helps vs the none sneak attack guys.
What he said and...
Originally Posted by EssenceofEvil
Consider halfling. Your racial enhancement lines are DEX and you can put all your level ups into INT. You have cheaper initial DEX, +1 to hit period, and some enhancements that go along with rogue nicely if you chose to invest in them. If you don't go halfling for some reason, select a race with level ups in DEX (Halfling, Elves, Drow, etc.) to let you grow a bit with your defensive attribute while stacking your level ups into your damage stat (INT).
Also, be on the lookout for non-weapon deception/non-deception items, radiance II green steel bows, Doublecross Bow (ML 16)/Slaver's Hand Crossbow (ML 21) with Nightshade Venom, and a Armor Piercing. All of these help you make the most of your sneak attack damage by kicking it in without sneaking. Get the Silver Slinger (at 16) for high end devils and enemies with DR/Bludgeon and a banisher for killing elementals and lesser extra-planars. If you can find one and you're in a party, a Paralyzing bow lets you even do some basic crowd control by spamming shots and toggling the TAB key ditto with the Doublecross. (Nightshade venom puts things to sleep meaning the next hit is worth 150% damage...)
Additionally--skill wise--don't get cheap with Spot (you're ranged), max out Jump and Bluff. Jump lets you "point blank kite" by shooting until you draw aggro and jumping over/away and keep shooting. Bluff lets you solo when you need to like any good rogue. Max UMD as well. (More later)
Set a priority for House Deneith favor. Unless you're splashing Arti, you will go through bolts like crazy. Getting large Thin quivers helps as does Sturdy returning bolts (both from Tier 2 House D favor). Get 3 Thin Quivers, put your equipped one on the hotbar. Stack each quiver with 1000 Sturdy bolts/1000 standard bolts/either 1000 +1 bolts or 1000 of whatever DR breakers you might need (also from House D favor). Leave a few stacks of bolts in open inventory and merely open the quiver from the hotbar and gather them in during lulls in combat.
This keeps you topped off but lets you carry about 9K bolts (effectively more with the 75% returning Sturdy bolts) in only 3 slots.
Keep the highest level INT item and DEX item you can on as well...
Oh, and your priority targets in combat will always be divine casters (which often take advantage of your usually lower will save) followed by arcanes. With a nice, high DEX and evasion, you will (other than will saves) usually be the best equipped to kill these guys fast then you can get on with killing the melee trash. In a party, because both you and the casters are ranged, you can engage them long before the melees and save the melees some real pain.
(And casters are often pretty squishy)
As far as UMD, get and/or craft a set of Goggles of Persuasion and have a equipable CHA item at low levels. Add in the enhancements for scroll mastery and you can heal yourself pretty nicely at middle levels and start throwing raise dead scrolls at around 10-13 with a moderately decent percentage. (Heroism/Greater Heroism, Good Luck, Skill Boost, and Bard songs can boost your chances as well). Because you're ranged anyway, you can often head off a disaster for other people if you need to with a nicely timed Cure Critical/Heal/Raise Dead from a distance before going back to tearing things up. It also is nice when the party almost wipes and you need to get people back alive after sneaking in and grabbing stones...
At higher levels, get a Flameward (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flameward) and make a weapon set on your hotbar with a scroll in the main hand and Flameward offhand. It's an equipable CHA +6 item with a +3 UMD on it. This adds--assuming no other CHA item--+6 or almost 30% to the chance to use a scroll. Put your scrolls on the hotbar seperately from your scroll + Flameward weapon set to use them.
Oh, and Fearsome armor or Air Guard armor are nice. While Fearsome makes them run away, you can hit them at range and they aren't hitting you. Air Guard is also nice by making them so they can't hit you, but you're still able to nail them.
One other suggestion...
Never stand in doorways. You're ranged, stand back a few paces, kill what comes through the door at you, then start on one side and line up distant enemies one-at-a-time so only they can hit you. You won't have a massive number of HP, but this gets the rate you can take damage down to a healable level when you don't need to expose yourself to the whole room.
(Sorry, pet peeve, especially the ambush in Coalescence Chamber.)
I recommend splashing with bard on a rogue mechanic build, Imo bard levels give you a lot of survivality and self suficiency, keeping enough skill points for traps, obviously you lose some sneak attack damage but gain some inspire courage damage and awesome spells like displascement, csw, haste. (if you are experienced with rogues and have gear for survivality, being pure can be good, but if you are not very experienced, 8 bard levels at least give you a lot of survivality and self suficiency, keeping some buff dps when partying).
I have a first life lvl 22 Human Rogue 10/Bard 8/fighter 2, Mechanic I, Spell singer I, Int, Dex and Const based, with umd, traps, improved evasion, 1:30 haste and displacement (with extend spell) , +4 dmg inspire courage, 5d6 +12 sneak base damage (not counting items).
Although i am a first life not top geared and currently leveling through shadowdancer (shiradi will be my main destiny, I believe), I do fine at Epics hards with my slavers hand crossbow and a coruscating of radiance crossbow, I have also diusruption, smiting, banishing weap. etc.
But I am thinking that the Bard 12/rogue 7/fighter I or Artificer I(if have) or Bard 14/rogue 6, Spell singer II (that regenerating sp song is awesome), Mechanic I can be all around a bit more helpful splash.
Do traps or gernades play a part at all in the late or early game of DDO? I don't see how mechanic would play a part other wise except for the intel to damage, but if I wanted that couldn't I just go arti?
You mean traps you put for enemies? that can be helpful especially at lower-mid levels and for some CC at higher levels but I dont bother much with that because of the preparation and timing to put that traps while partying (maybe while soloing you have more time to do that and that can be fun sometimes but I just dont bother with that because dont really need it most of the time, maybe if you are partying with no cc and can coordinate with your group, making traps can be cool)
But yeah, if you are using a repeater crossbow, artificer gives too much imo, i did my mechanic/bard before getting artificer class and it is a good alternative build for those free to play who dont have artificer class (i normally beat on kills other first life artificers i play with but i am a planned build, also i have seen well builded tred artificers in action and they can be very powerful), but besides the sneak attack damage gained from rogue and improved evasion, you dont get much more than an artificer that can self heal, blade barrier, turret, tactical detonation, rune arm, a pet, etc and they even can have evasion and some sneak attack damage multiclassing with rogue.
Should I go straight rogue or dip into other classes if I am still going mechanic? The capstone that gives int and extra sneak die is pretty good considering my bonuses. Also what race should I be or is suggested?
Race and multiclass choices really depend on what you're trying to build for. Crafted traps aren't particularly viable as a weapon or regular tactical option, due primarily to their lack of power and the number of parts needed to craft.
So, the remaining significant traits of a mechanic are the repeater proficiency and Int damage, and bonuses to trap and lock skills. Melee combat is generally more effective than ranged and you don't need the Mechanic bonuses to do traps and locks effectively. If you want to build a primarily ranged attacker, you can, but mechanics still get all the rogue SA ability and can do great damage in melee as well.
Staying pure is nice for the capstone; only consider multi-classing in the context of what you get from it. Typically for a rogue, that would be extra feats (say from a few fighter levels). Mechanic only goes to tier 2, so you *could* go for a deeper splash without losing PRE abilities, though you'd lose out on the extra Rogue abilities.
Race-wise, Human is always a good choice (human enhancements, extra feat, extra skill point). Drow has some benefits with higher base Dex and Int, though you have lower starting Con. Halfling has higher base Dex. Half-elf gives you some of the human traits, plus the dilettante abilities - though this is only worthwhile if you have a specific plan for what you're getting out of the Dilettante.
Honestly, if you're fairly new to a rogue, a very safe choice is to go human pure. I'd probably go with starting stats like the following (Note that I tend towards generalist builds, and lots of people here would have very different opinions):
If you wanted to focus mostly on your ranged attacks, you could drop points from Str and put them in Dex and/or Int (though I'm not recommending that).
Edited to add: You might want to check out some of the discussions on rogue builds in the Specialists class forum. I don't think any of the active ones are about Mechanics (Assassins are the forum-goer rogues of choice), but they might give you a sense of how some of the more active players use their rogues and what abilities they value.
Actually, grenades can be nice in selective situations--like Foundation of Discord's end fight with the nasty caster in the pit--but then you're lobbing in quantity and avoiding line of sight with a caster.
Originally Posted by HolyCat
Traps lose their luster fast because the amount of damage done is quickly swamped by the high HP of enemies.
Also, in addition to INT to damage, the key things about rogue mechs are massive sneak attack damage when you can stick it (i.e. radiance bow, deception/improved deception, nightshade venom as I mentioned earlier) and a much more survivability against non-melees with evasion. Additionally, unlike an artificer who has to split their feat selection between ranged combat, casting/UMD, and trapping support, you can directly focus only on ranged fighting as a mechanic.
So, while theoretically you might create an artificer that could do more damage sometimes, you're going to be stuck very situational to pull it off. For example, a force specced Arti with Lucid Dreams, evocation focus feats and items and a wide open area can do massive damage spamming force shots. Mine--before I TR'ed him back to Arti--was doing between 150 x 5 and 250 x 5 with just the runearm alone without criticals.
To do that, though, I needed to have enough meatshields in front of me so I could charge the rune arm and if I had to move at all--even with 30% striders on--I was trying to play catch up more than fighting.
With one of my rogue mechs, I can stay one or two steps behind the melees and still do massive damage. My last 28-pt character who just hit 20 (http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/eyesblaze/) surprised me when a friend of mine (with a capped ranger) started running the new Gianthold Flags and I was staying almost kill-for-kill with him. Mostly it was letting him get the first aggro and dumping 14d6 +12 sneak attack damage on most hits. And this was without epic bows.
My more "robust" TR-ed Rogue Mech (16)/Arti (2) does less damage per hit sneak attack, but has a little more damage from the rune arm imbue and better bow selection. I also went even more severely INT/DEX but with +2 and +3 tomes on everything and the new augment crystal slots to round up some of my other attributes, life's a bit easier. Even so, I can UMD Raise Dead and Heal scrolls as well as most wands and grind through most enemies with very little overall cost except replacing scrolls as I use them and upgrading gear.
Unlike an Arti which is a platinum sink for consumables.
Still, pure does more damage with the right gear, sneak attack likewise is untyped damage which is really handy sometimes, and unless you have a lot of experience with wizards and rogues, getting Arti right the first time isn't particularly easy for most people. For rogue mechs, it's a whole lot easier as long as you get the attributes right and commit to either a precision/opportunist feat "chain" or the precise shot/improved precise shot chain suggested earlier...
I've heard of rogue mechanics going 14 rogue/6 ranger. What's ranger for? Deepwood sniper increases the range of your sneak attack.(and point blank shot from what I heard) I've never seen such a build in action so I can't comment on the effectiveness.
If you're committed to ranged (and you're starting at level 7), I suggest setting STR for 9, setting CON for 14, consider setting WIS and CHA for 10, but everything else needs to be split between INT and DEX.
Originally Posted by Mercureal
You will never--except for with a weapon like Sky-Pirate's Dagger or Envenomed Blade--do credible melee damage. Your only way of doing decent damage--melee--is going to be either sneak attack or those special DEX/STR weapons which have a min level of 4.
If you were actually going to play through levels 1 to 5, the best thing you could do is actually take point-blank shot then rapid shot, pick up a shortbow of lacerating, and practice your stalking.
You do that with a +1 Shortbow of Lacerating and a 17 DEX, you'll typically hit easily and get:
1 (enhancement) +1d6 (base) + 1d6 point blank (which is, essentially, sneak attack range) + 1d6 sneak attack + 1d8 bleed + 1d4 slicing or about 18.5 damage a non-critical hit.
With 12 STR and a +1 short sword of lacerating, you would get:
1 (enhancement) +1 (STR) +1d6 (base) + 1d6 sneak attack + 1d8 bleed + 1d4 slicing or about 16 damage a non-critical hit.
You might be able to melee faster, but you also lose your higher DEX modifier to hit.
As far as STR goes, you need to carry bolts and repeaters and loot. Add a +1 STR tome to 9 and you have an okay carrying load, even on a halfling if you're careful. The boosts to DEX also increases your survivability directly--through AC bonus--and indirectly through your reflex save and evasion.
A higher WIS is a luxury. 12 WIS means a +1 on your spot rolls. However, you can also add up to +4 to spot with enhancements and shift those 2 build points to CHA to use on your UMD. Unlike Spot which you can use enhancements and easily available skill boosting gear to raise, the only ways to boost UMD on a rogue are going to be gear (with the highest direct boost being a +3 or a +5, CHA items, good luck items, etc.) or raising your CHA.
Not saying dump WIS or Spot, just maybe picking a slightly different priority for raising might be better overall.
Not sure about the 6, but ranger unlocks the use of cure wands without UMD checks. At level 6, you get 2 first level spells which an help with mobility (Jump spell, for example) and damage (Ram's Might adds +2 to STR which doesn't affect XBow damage, but also a base +2 damage boost which should probably work). You can also add to your sneaking ability with some of the 1st level spells.
Originally Posted by EssenceofEvil
Precise shot and Rapid shot become granted feats, although you should probably have those long before you take most of your ranger levels, assuming you want to add INT to damage quicker.
The pre-req's for Deepwood Sniper include a feat you should have anyway--Point Blank shot--as well as one you might consider if you're looking to boost Critical Hit damage--Weapon Focus: Ranged, a pre-req for Power Critical. Supposedly, according to the wiki, Deepwood Sniper's Sniper shot now works with repeaters and increases critical range.
Tempest would be a bit of a waste as it requires two feats (Dodge, mobility) of questionable utility on a primarily ranged rogue. Arcane archer probably not a good fit either.