Sephiroth this will be my last reply to you in this thread since your not at all fun to argue with since you keep basically saying:
Next thread offer compelling proof to back up your arguements and I might consider them.
Your wrong and I'm right, but I won't offer any evidence why your wrong
Link a single decent Monk, Ranger, Wizard or Bard build with higher reflex save vs traps (rhetorical jab there you can't). Paladins might indeed have higher, but they are poor scouts for other reasons (Slow, only effective vs certain enemies, moderate HP at best, lack of skill points to gain spot/listen, etc)
Originally Posted by sephiroth
You won't be able too. You don't know much about the Barbarian class if you thought otherwise. We have a +12 to reflex saves vs traps that no other class other then Rogues can come close to (+6 trap sense +6 IUD), and in fact Rogues gain the bonus slower (Improved uncanny dodge at 8 vs 5), leaving Barbarians with the single strongest saves versus Fort/Will traps, but Rogues win vs Reflex thanks to a higher base.
Sure some bad barbarians completely ignore saves, some bad rogues do to. That's probably what your thinking of. None of my builds do and my guide certainly doesn't recommend to.
You really need better reading comprehension on this one. I'm not recommending anyone purposely run into traps. That's a worse case scenario. Say the player DOES accidentally hit the trap, What will happen?
- So, if you have a Rogue, Ranger, Monk or Bard the party can likely avoid dying in traps entirely, or at least avoid dying in unknown traps, rather than plunging through the dungeon hoping to not get surprised with death. Being the best scout in a party without a better scout doesn't mean that barbarians make the best scouts.
That's what the point is about. I think that's clear to most people.
No you can't if you could understand the basic concept of this point. This is a theoretically situation where 1 player accidently runs into the trap. No matter what class he is playing, the result would be the same, he gets hit by it.
Post level 9 with Access to Raise dead: The Barbarian dies: Gets Rezzed, rages back up and is back in the fight almost instantly. The Rogue dies in the trap? Back up, but suffering a -1 penalty to skills from death, has no GH or other buffs to his skills and may not be able to find the trap box or disable the trap for a full minute - wasting time on everyone else buffs and slowing down the quest. Sure it might seem dumb for the Barb to die in the trap, but actually in many cases, it saves time. Orrrrrr...you could simply have a character in the party who won't die when they find a trap. Ooh! No lost 10% XP penalty, no wasted SP on raising, healing and rebuffing the barbarian.
For most traps in the game a Barbarian is the least likely to die from them, so there is no "character that won't die" better then a Barb.
Then you don't understand the spot skill. Very little is needed to see 99% of monsters in the game. If you follow my build guides, 8-10 wisdom + ponts in spot + item = Enough to see everything. Some classes like Fighter and Paladin simply don't have the skill points to put in there is what this point is getting at.
-Useful, but not as much as Spot for spotting monsters, which many other characters will have more of.
Blantantly false. Your sig lists a Barb.. You not have sprint boost or you just never figure out how to use it?
- Fastest run speed period via 10% base and sprint boost will let Barbs get out of dangerous situations fast. Unless you are running around with Sprint Boost IV, barbarians are not the fastest characters. Monks are faster all the time except when you're using an incredibly expensive enhancement line that lasts for only 20 seconds out of every minute, and in an emergency are much faster at getting out of trouble from level 12 on (Abundant Step is faster than running and offers a more useful form of movement when in a bad spot most of the time).
No sprint - Monks are slower until level9+ in which case they have very small lead (10% base vs 15-30% base depending on level, level1-8 a Barbarian is faster or equal) (Monk gets 5% at 3, and 5% more every 3 levels thereafter)
Sprint Boost 1 - AP Cost: 1 AP. NOT IV = Barbarians is MASSIVELY faster then any pure Monk at every level. Sprint boost gives allot more speed then the official description makes it out to be. There have been many threads on this subject, do a search.
I've raced level20 monks vs my Barb in Prey on the hunter to the end where we both go the same way and he uses his abundant step non stop. I've always won. They are not faster even counting my cooldown on my sprint and their abundant step.
No they don't. This point mainly a skill useful at lower levels since at high level access to the jump and haste spell more then covers this. Low level monks have neither a high strength nor the abundant step ability. High levels the only place I know a monk can reach that a sprint jumping barb cannot is Titan preraid levers, and while that does save time, it doesn't count as a useful scouting location. Barbs can do it with a single lever pull which is fine.
- High strength means a high jump skill, combined with the highest movement speed lets the Barbarian get up to places other classes simply can not do. In many quests this even means getting up to places to kill dangerous monsters, or spot extra enemies or chests in the distance. Other characters can and will have the same Jump. Other characters can combine jump and speed in this way. Monks still win here.
Anoter "im right your wrong" with no evidence. Surprising. What other characters? Why so vague? Can't win the argument so you post vague and pointless things.
- Superior will saves then a Rogue while raged means if you run into enemy casters, your much less likely to get hit by a nasty dibilitating spell like hold/dominate/command/etc. This is true for barb vs. rogue in a general sense, though other characters will have higher Will saves than both, and rogues can avoid the issue by sneaking and simply not getting targeted with the spells.
Barbarians are the best scouts. The guide is correct.
You have lost the arguement.