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Grenfell
01-29-2007, 11:54 AM
In the year or so that I have been playing this game, I realized that one of the things that interested me most has been creating (and in many cases, testing) different builds. Over time, I have posted a number of builds, some of which became quite popular, and collaborated on a number of builds to the point of explaining the what-to-do, and how-to-do-it for the DDO community.

I wanted a single place to put all of the builds, as some of them get lost in the respective forums. Besides, my signature file is getting far too long. :)

I realize that many, if not all, of these builds may become completely obsolete with Mod 4 and the new enhancement system, but still, it will be (I hope) a useful reference document for other builders.

I have reserved the first bunch of pages as the place where I will post many of my public builds, and this first post as the index to them.

I have to mention that Ron's Character Generator (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO) is an essential tool for anyone interested in creating DDO builds. There is no way that I could have done all of the tweaking necessary to make some of these builds work without his incredible tool. Turbine should pay the guy for his contribution. And then give me a free account or two so I can keep creating and testing new builds. :D

Many thanks to my guild, The Fellowship of the Bling, for their patience with all of my numerous alts. :o

/gren

Grenfell
01-29-2007, 11:55 AM
Personally-Tested Builds

The Warpriest (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35580)- 11C/1P - Heal/DV Spec Battlecleric
Mod 3 Warpriest (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84790) - 12C - Heal/DV Spec Battlecleric

The original Warpriest, a 28-point, pre-Mod 3 build, is one of the most viewed threads in the Cleric forums. I think it's fair to say that it has become one of the two standard builds for clerics, the other one being your standard zero-combat healbot build. The updated Mod-3 build also takes 32point builds into consideration -- I haven't personally tested the post-Mod 3 version, as I'm out of slots, but I can't imagine it being worse than the 28pt relatively gimped version I have played to 12.


The Batman (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58347) - 6F/2P/4R - TankEngineer, Intimidate Tank w/ Full Trap & Lock & UMD skills

Probably my best work to date, and definitely the most difficult build to get right. Also extremely controversial as many people see the build as exploiting Evasion, or putting full Rogues out of business. That was never my intent, of course, but in final analysis, the Batman utilizes two of the strongest feats (Divine Grace and Evasion) in DDO and the best skill to have, period (UMD), to bring a level of flexibility and utility to an often ignored role: the IntimiTank.

Ironborn (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67888)- 12F - Drow DPS/Strategist, Flex DPS or Off-Tank

This is a decent Drow fighter build that blends elements of the Strategist build (an extremely influential build by Kraze Nightwielder) with solid DPS and off-tank abilities. The high Intel and Dex, and high Str, does mean that it is possible to build a fighter that can do both Combat Expertise-based tank-work, as well as Power Attack based DPS work.

Round Mound of Astound (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79517) - 1R/11N - Dwarven TWF Rogue/Ranger w/ UMD

Another personal favorite, this is a dramatically different approach to the TWF Rogue, which is essentially what this build is. But it can bring far stronger melee abilities than a typical TWF Rogue, with Greater TWF, 24+ Str, Improved Precise Shot, and AC in the 50's in TWF mode. Think of it as a blend of Tesyus and your typical 1R/11N utility builds.

The Juggernaut (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83493) - 1P/11F - 32 pt Dwarven THF DPS Specialist

This is my current choice for my DPS specialist, having more or less retired my Ironborn DPS'er for it. It is an adaptation of the concepts in the Tesyus build to fit THF. I believe this is possibly the best THF non-Barbarian build out there, and it can be done with Dwarf, Human, and Warforged without losing too much in the translation. Again, its strength is having normal DPS AC in the 40's in THF mode, and defensive DPS AC in the high 40's or low 50's in THF mode, and Sword & Board mode clearly in the 50's. It addresses the biggest problem with THF builds -- not enough defense -- while having most of the tools for dishing out the damage in big numbers.

Holy Avenger - 10P/2R - 28pt Human DPS Paladin
Post Mod3 Holy Avenger (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84294) - 10P/2R - 32pt Human DPS/Utility Paladin
Shadow Avenger (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53262) - 10p/2R - 28 pt Drow DPS/Utility Paladin

I have contributed heavily to the original Holy Avenger thread, and since jinx's retirement from DDO, have been maintaining it to a large extent. The entire Avenger line of Paladin builds (I have played the original 28pt Human variant to 12; many guildmates have played the Drow version; and some guildies are now levelling up the 32pt variant) is one of the premier DPS builds in the game with a special emphasis on killing caster mobs and bringing unparalleled utility in the endgame.

The Zealot (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35138)- 6p/4f DPS Melee

This was one of my first builds. Truly an excellent build all around, but ultimately, I think it represented just the first step forward to the Avenger series -- which was born out of discussions that jinx and I were having about the Zealot build. I have played this to 10 (pre mod-3) and always thought it was a great DPS build. However, its time is past, and I keep this link as historical reference.

Non-Personally Tested Builds

The Robin - 1R/11N Drow RogueRanger - DPS/Utility (link forthcoming)

This build is extremely popular among Blingers (my guildmates) and is one that I think really shines at the endgame. The way the feats, stats, and skills all blend together is quite amazing. It is essentially a variation of the Tempest Ranger that sacrifices a touch of offense and defense to bring a whole level of utility to the group. It isn't a tank, but it is a great DPS build, and it plays quite a bit like a Batman might, so I thought I would call it Robin. 32 Dex, robe-wearing finesse fighter with Greater TWF, and all Ranger bow abilities, as well as full Rogue skills and UMD? Why not? Probably the most flexible, most nerf-proof of the utility rogues out there.

Xoria (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80691)- 10Bard/2Rogue - Pacifist Ultimate Support Character

This is a build I created for a guildmate who wanted a character that could quite literally hit every rune in Xorian Cipher, disable the traps, and still be useful to the group as a whole. I thought it an interesting challenge, and the result is Xoria. Quite literally, there isn't anything outside of fighting that Xoria can't do one way or another. He heals, he disarms traps, he sings bard songs, he fascinates, he buffs, he hastes... this is probably your best sixth man ever. However, it's a TOUGH build to play because it is so passive. Good for the healbot cleric lover who wants to do more than just sit back with a wand.

Miscellaneous Fun Builds and Not-So-Good Builds


Builds for New Players to DDO (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85940)

This is a recent piece of work where I tried to get some builds posted for the newcomer to DDO who doesn't have 32 point builds, doesn't have uber mains to supply them, and need to think about available items. The goal was to create friendly, easy-to-level builds that would still be decent in the end-game even if not supremely min-maxed.

Two-Blade Sorceror (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84795) - 8Sorc/3Pal/1F - Melee/Arcane DPS/Buff/Fun!

This is an admittedly non-uber build that tries to adapt the Longblade Sorceror to the TWF platform to take advantage of the higher Dex = higher AC notion. I'm dyin' to try the build myself, even though I know it wouldn't stand up to the top end content.

Two Ranged Cleric Builds (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62068)

These two builds -- a Bow-based cleric and a Heavy Repeater based cleric -- were in response to people in the Cleric forums wanting a ranged cleric solution. As I believe clerics should melee, I wasn't particularly fond of these, but still... if you're going to range, might as well give these two a shot. (Pun!)

The Ironman (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71484) - a WF Fighter/Barb build - Not Primetime material

Just a fun/silly concept build that was created around a paralyzing maul I had acquired in trade.

The Ravin (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64249) - The Batman-ified Cleric Build - In honor of Ravi, the popularizer of the original Rogue/Cleric build

This was something I created to honor Ravi, who has left DDO. His work with Rogue/Cleric was hugely influential in creating the Batman, and I thought it worthwhile to pay tribute with this Cleric version of the Batman concept.

Ravitus (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52323)- This was my first attempt at Batman, and it isn't particularly good, but as historical background material, I thought it worth saving.

The Colossus (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68832) - Warforged EvasionTank

I was on a Warforged kick for a while, thinking about 32-point builds, and this is an attempt at creating an evasion-tank, WF style. I ultimately decided against rolling this character, as I didn't feel it was prime-time, but there's some interesting thinking going on in the discussions.

The Stingray (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51241) - Drow Fighter Light Tank

I believe this was my first hack at the Ironborn build, and boy is the original not-good. :D But the discussions are interesting.

Dark Zealot (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50848)

This ultimately became the Prince of Darkness, but the discussions in the thread were interesting and instructive.

Tempest Aelasyl (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54133)- 2rogue/8ranger - Utility Ranger

This is what evolved into Robin; it would have worked prior to mod-3, but the changes in mod3 are what made Robin into the superbuild it is today. Some historical material.

Brieg the Bold (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=930464&postcount=30) - 2fighter/9ranger/1pal - Tank

This is my latest -- a tribute build created for the contest that Illuminati is running in honor of Maldini, who has left DDO to pursue a career in medicine. While it is a bit of a "flavor" build with lots of restrictions, I think this guy can be a scary little monster with an incredible amount of flexibility for being a full 12 BAB tank.

More to Come...

/gren

Grenfell
01-29-2007, 11:56 AM
The Robin
Level 12 True Neutral Drow Male
(1 Rogue / 11 Ranger)
Hit Points: 114 +24 (14 con) = 138
Spell Points: 95 +50 (Wiz II) = 145

Strength 14 +4 (item) = 18
Dexterity 18 +3 (levels) +3 (Ranger Dex III) +2 (Elven Dex II) +4 (item) = 30 (+10)
Constitution 10 +4 (item) = 14
Intelligence 16 +4 (buff) = 20 (+5) for disabling; 9 skill points/ranger level.
Wisdom 10 +2 (item) = 12 (+1); cast lvl 2 spells.
Charisma 10+4 (buff) = 14 (+2); for UMD

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Max all relevant skills.

Level 2 (Ranger) -- each ranger level, raise UMD (2), Disable (2), OpenLock(2), Search(1), and Spot (1). The last point goes into Jump, or Balance, or Hide/Move Silent
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength

Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX

Level 5 (Ranger)

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precision

Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot

Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX

Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion (Ranger) -- WOOHOO!

Level 11 (Ranger)

Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
(Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting(Ranger) -- 7 attacks/round!
(Automatic) Precise Shot
(Automatic) Improved Precise Shot

Final Enhancement:
Elven Dexterity II
Favored Attack III
Ranger's Dexterity III
Ranger's Action Boost IV

This is probably the best hybrid Rogue build in DDO today, at least if you want to do reasonable DPS. Max ranks in Spot, Search, Disable, Open, UMD, and a few ranks in Jump/Hide/Move Silent would yield a fully functional DPS ranger with full rogue skills.

For example, look at this To Hit using Precision (probably with +1 stat damage weapons):

11 BAB
10 Dex bonus (finesse!)
4 Precision
1 Weapon bonus (+1 Rapier of Puncturing, etc.)
4 Greater Hero
-----------------
+30/+30/+30/+35/+35/+40/+40

That's a very serious To Hit bonus when dual-wielding a Rapier of Puncturing with a Wounding dagger/shortsword; very very few builds can compete with a dual-wielding ranger going with stat damagers and Precision on.

Precision also makes your main attack do half-damage. Turn that to your advantage by going with stat damagers or bursting/elemental of pure good weapons.

But if you want to do actual DPS damage, then try weapons with multiple effects on a hit: e.g., +1 Shocking Burst Rapier of Pure Good. Without Precision, you're still looking at +26 on the first swing, and you swing seven times.

Significant UMD means this build can self-cast incredibly cheap Shield scrolls and just about any equipment in game:

15 Ranks
3 Skill Focus
3 Golden Cartouche
1 Rabbit Gloves
4 Greater Hero
2 Charisma Bonus (Eagle's Splendor)
6 Ranger Skill Boost
-----------------
34 UMD -- uses Raise Dead scrolls on a roll of 2.

Favored Enemy: Undead, Evil Outsiders, Aberrations (Scorrow and Beholders) -- grants +9 TO HIT with FE Attack III enhancement.

With 30 Dex, you can and will hotswap robes constantly. Need Greater Fire Resist? You can self-cast it, or you can swap to the robe. Need a Rage or a Divine Power? Robe it up!

It's an awesome build.

/gren

Grenfell
01-29-2007, 11:57 AM
this space not for rent

Grenfell
01-29-2007, 11:58 AM
this space is reserved

Grenfell
01-29-2007, 11:59 AM
that oughta be enough space reserved...

Thrudh
03-08-2007, 02:18 PM
Grenfell... although I understand the service you are trying to provide by posting various builds, I wish you wouldn't name them... especially the more basic ones like the "The Robin"

Being a ranger with a splash of rogue is not a super-original idea... and I hate being asked by other players... "Oh, is that a Robin build?"

"What the heck is that?" I ask... and then I looked it up here. I certainly look at ideas for builds on these boards, but I don't follow any one build exactly... If my character is good, it's because I carefully thought out all my choices... I hate people thinking "Oh, your character is good because you followed some build on the boards"

The Batman is detailed enough and unique enough to deserve a name... An 11/1 Ranger/Rogue is not a hard stretch for most people to come up with. I know you're probably not trying to claim the idea for your very own, but by naming it (and with your reputation from creating the infamous Batman), too many people attribute the idea to you...

Silly of me to care? Probably... I'd just rather you post your rather excellent builds WITHOUT names...

Viglin
03-08-2007, 03:39 PM
Grenfell... although I understand the service you are trying to provide by posting various builds, I wish you wouldn't name them... especially the more basic ones like the "The Robin"

Being a ranger with a splash of rogue is not a super-original idea... and I hate being asked by other players... "Oh, is that a Robin build?"

"What the heck is that?" I ask... and then I looked it up here. I certainly look at ideas for builds on these boards, but I don't follow any one build exactly... If my character is good, it's because I carefully thought out all my choices... I hate people thinking "Oh, your character is good because you followed some build on the boards"

The Batman is detailed enough and unique enough to deserve a name... An 11/1 Ranger/Rogue is not a hard stretch for most people to come up with. I know you're probably not trying to claim the idea for your very own, but by naming it (and with your reputation from creating the infamous Batman), too many people attribute the idea to you...

Silly of me to care? Probably... I'd just rather you post your rather excellent builds WITHOUT names...

I know that feeling all to well

"So Dreaads going the Mystic Theurge? path"....um what the hell is that?
"So Insious is another Batman:rolleyes: "....um no hes just Insious

I dont blame the Op thou, unfortuantely most gamers forget some of us have our own ideas, imagiation and freedom of choice.

Ive never looked at a build......most likely never will.

But nods to the Op for helping others out.

Darkschneider
03-08-2007, 03:49 PM
Grenfell has been posting builds for a LONG time. Many of his builds have become the de facto standard for certain class. If he so chooses to name his build, that's his choice. He is not telling you to build a particular class in a particular way, instead he has broken down the abilities for a particular class/race combo, analyzed them and assembled the results into a reasonable post for others to use a template.

As these builds are HIS creation, he has the right to name. In particular the Ravin is a tribute build to a Cleric/Rogue MC called the Ravi. If you don't like the name given to the build, don't use it. The names given provide a simple way to reference a particular feat/stat selection and give a general idea of a builds capabilities. They do not pidgeonhole your character, irregardless of whether you followed one his templates or you came to the same build conclusions yourself.

If someone recognizes a build that you created by the name of a Grenfell template, then consider yourself lucky to be associated with a talented player.

Thrudh
03-08-2007, 05:04 PM
Grenfell has been posting builds for a LONG time. Many of his builds have become the de facto standard for certain class. If he so chooses to name his build, that's his choice. He is not telling you to build a particular class in a particular way, instead he has broken down the abilities for a particular class/race combo, analyzed them and assembled the results into a reasonable post for others to use a template.

As these builds are HIS creation, he has the right to name. In particular the Ravin is a tribute build to a Cleric/Rogue MC called the Ravi. If you don't like the name given to the build, don't use it. The names given provide a simple way to reference a particular feat/stat selection and give a general idea of a builds capabilities. They do not pidgeonhole your character, irregardless of whether you followed one his templates or you came to the same build conclusions yourself.

If someone recognizes a build that you created by the name of a Grenfell template, then consider yourself lucky to be associated with a talented player.

Well, I'll say again that a 11/1 Ranger/Rogue that has UMD, Lock, and Traps skills isn't really anything he CREATED...

Pretty basic idea... pretty easy to implement...

Regardless of how good a player he is, he didn't create such a build... he just named it... and because of his earlier success with the Batman (a Build I WILL give him credit for), some people (morons mostly of course) think that any Ranger with a splash of Rogue is a Robin build...

I can just ignore the morons out there I guess... Not really blaming Grenfall... Just seems silly to me that he gets credit for something he didn't really invent.

At least no one has asked me if my pure drow fighter is an "Ironborn".. heh... because you know Grenfell invented the strategist fighter build :)

Andy_of_GSI
03-08-2007, 05:06 PM
Gren has some wonderfull ideas but if he names them all, people start to recognize the class mixture and then eveyone thinks anyone of that mixture must have used Gren's build. Many people are offended, (including myself) when asked if they are following someone else's build plan.

Vengenance
03-08-2007, 07:26 PM
I agree with Darkschnider, he has the right to call it whatever he wants, and if you want to post your 11 Ranger / 1 Rogue build then you can call it whatever you want. I was thinking of making a similar build and I appreciate Gren's posting of his build to review the choices that he made and the reasons behind it. My build won't be identical to his for one because I refuse to make another drow character and for another I like to add my own spice and flavor, but I do plan on using his recipe :D .

I always enjoy going through Gren's builds because they are well thought out and well reasoned. He provides a service to us people who hate crunching the numbers and I for one appreciate it. Keep up the great work Gren, and don't let the TROLLS get you down.

-Jer

Darkschneider
03-09-2007, 02:31 PM
Well, I'll say again that a 11/1 Ranger/Rogue that has UMD, Lock, and Traps skills isn't really anything he CREATED...


Your build is yours his build is his. Again he can name it whatever he wants. I have never seen a post where Gren steps in and says "That's my build." It's a template.

Robin is A LOT easier to say than "An 11/1 Ranger rogue that has elite trapsmith skills and UMD". It's reference point and has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your build.

GeneFrenkle
03-09-2007, 05:43 PM
Grenfell has been posting builds for a LONG time. Many of his builds have become the de facto standard for certain class. If he so chooses to name his build, that's his choice. He is not telling you to build a particular class in a particular way, instead he has broken down the abilities for a particular class/race combo, analyzed them and assembled the results into a reasonable post for others to use a template.

As these builds are HIS creation, he has the right to name. In particular the Ravin is a tribute build to a Cleric/Rogue MC called the Ravi. If you don't like the name given to the build, don't use it. The names given provide a simple way to reference a particular feat/stat selection and give a general idea of a builds capabilities. They do not pidgeonhole your character, irregardless of whether you followed one his templates or you came to the same build conclusions yourself.

If someone recognizes a build that you created by the name of a Grenfell template, then consider yourself lucky to be associated with a talented player.

Ok I'm sure this guy has paid his dues in terms of "hours logged", and I know he's trying to provide useful information to new players which is cool, but his entire presentation is completely self absorbed. To make blanket statements like "my such and such build has become the standard", is complete BS and misleading to new players. Instead of gloating about how great his "choices" are in character generation/progression, perhaps he could be a bit more humble in his presentation of information. This is a game, there are many ways to play it, and there are plenty of players out there that use their own creativity to come up with ideas about how to play the game, rather than follow some cookie cutter formula. The information here would be much more useful if he presented it in such a way as to point out the strengths and weaknesses of different character choices, and explain why he favors one vs another, and let people decide for themselves. I'm sorry but this guy is really just a legend in his own mind.:eek:

Akerue
03-11-2007, 05:23 AM
Wow, guys you need to lay off. For those of us with jobs and lives outside DDO all of the build guides/templates are a great service that allows us to spend more time playing and less time agonizing over where to spend that skill point. I almost quit the game in the beginning because my first couple of builds were truly terrible, almost unplayable. Being able to build using a proven and tested Template allows us to benefit from all the time others have put in learning the basics. Why do I want to reinvent the wheel when I am just learning to play? How was I to know there were underwater breathing items in the game? I maxed swimming for the first 4 levels of my first build. Talk about a waste.

These templates allow a noob like myself to get into the game quicker and learn some basics from experts about what is a balanced build. Then, when we are ready we can start building and tweaking ourselves. I am not conceited enough to think that I can build a character as complex as this game requires without some help from people who have been doing it a lot longer.

In fact, I wish we had more builds laid out like the Tempest Aelasyl build guide. A level by level breakdown of how to get the most out of the build during the different levels of the game. My highest char is only lvl 9. I don't know what lvl12 quests are like and I would hate to invest 2-300 hours into a char only to have it unplayable in the end game.

So Grenfell, keep up the good work, It helps me and many other people enjoy the game much more. And don't worry about what GeneFrenkle said. The rest of us understand that it was Darkschneider praising you, not you praising yourself. I am sure if he rereads what he wrote in that context, he will feel very foolish.

Therigar
03-11-2007, 06:12 AM
I just want to say thanks for the effort you have put into these designs. I was really impressed with Illuminati's Tempest ranger build. My current drow fighter is based off ideas he posted there.

I have been thinking for a long time of making a ranger/rogue build to replace my current pure rogue. Your Robin build is somewhat along the lines of what I have been considering.

Work like you have done is a valuable contribution to us. Keep up the work and thanks, again, for doing it.

Therigar

Ghoste
03-11-2007, 08:20 AM
"Juggernaut"? At first I thought this was a WF build (since the juggernaut is a WF only class), but it isnt. Oh well.

ShadowFox1978
03-11-2007, 04:00 PM
Ok I'm sure this guy has paid his dues in terms of "hours logged", and I know he's trying to provide useful information to new players which is cool, but his entire presentation is completely self absorbed. To make blanket statements like "my such and such build has become the standard", is complete BS and misleading to new players. Instead of gloating about how great his "choices" are in character generation/progression, perhaps he could be a bit more humble in his presentation of information. This is a game, there are many ways to play it, and there are plenty of players out there that use their own creativity to come up with ideas about how to play the game, rather than follow some cookie cutter formula. The information here would be much more useful if he presented it in such a way as to point out the strengths and weaknesses of different character choices, and explain why he favors one vs another, and let people decide for themselves. I'm sorry but this guy is really just a legend in his own mind.:eek:


Gren is always open to constructive discussion and critique. He is very helpful.
Cruise the fighter/pally forums, if someone posts a build they almost always ask for Gren's thoughts. Does this make him a "Legend" in his own mind or a Legend because of the respect his voice garners.

For advice:
Ranger=Illuminati
Cleric=Elurian
Fighter/Pally/Utility=Gren
Strat build=Vyyy/Kraze(:( )
Newbie Q/A= Viglin

They have earned respect with their knowledge and willingness to help others.
What have you contributed to the DDO community?

Jericohs
03-16-2007, 10:41 AM
haha

like someone said earlier, this guy is helping out the noobs out there; good job!~ Someone has to do it. Your personally checked builds seem ok, and would help out first time players. Honnestly, i think it takes a lot out the game though. I suggest anyone with a little hint of MMORPG's or DND to create his own character. In the end, isn't that the point? I don't want to see 4 dozen Grenfell's out there.

Secondly, modesty is the best policy. You sound as if your the end all be all character builder. And there's really nothing to it.

Thirdly, If your going to go and copywrite all these builds, realize that most people have already built your creations since day 1 without looking to be praised and might be offended by comments. Ie. "My build has become the standard..." Comon bud, that's a little rough...

Lastly, just to prove a point I'm going to comment on the Illuminati, Tempest Ranger Build (10 Ranger / 2 Fighter) . That's my favorite build of all. When i created my Ranger "Yosei, The Morning Star" a year ago. I built him specifically with soloing in mind. Shot on the Run was the best way around this. The Highest Ranged damage possible while running at the speed of sound --- yes, please. I spent the whole summer last year dedicated to making this build accesible to the DDO community. And in that respect, it has become the most popular build i see today... So will you see me Grenfell as stating that i'm the creator of the Illuminati, that my build has become the standard or was it some other guy 30 years ago who took the reigns and said speed + shot on the run = solo artist extraordinaire? Probably. I'm modest, i'll assume someone else did it.

Furthermore, the way the leveling system and new enhancements system is laid out. How can you possibly screw your build up? Any child with rudementary math skills can come up with something fresh and original.

For new players***

use Grenfell's personal builds for reference. Then think about your play style. Are you a button masher or are you someone that will want to strategize in the heat of battle. With that in mind, pick a class and race depending on the stats you desire. Don't worry about not knowing where to invest your stats. Use the automatically generated stats list, write the stats on a piece of paper and go back. Then go to custom build and min/max your character to your liking. Each stat will have an apropriate def. For example, wiz needs high intelligence, cleric high wisdom, etc. You'll notice this anyhow with the automatically generated stats list.
Next are your skills and feats; always think upside down! (is that how it goes, build from down to up, errr?) Think about the last level spells and feats you want first and go down the necessary ladder from there on out. That's the trick, you set your sight on specific goals for your character and you run with it. From there on, read every skill and every feat and pick them accordingly. This is where Grenfell's builds will help. Any other builds you can find on the forum as well. Cause you'll see what the majority of the DDO community plays with. I.E> strongest skills and feats in the game. THINK outside the box. It's refreshing and makes this game what it ought to be ;-)

Till then, this was your friendly neighborhood stranger sticking it to the man.

wayfairer
03-21-2007, 09:24 AM
I am not ashamed to say that I have been playing DDO for 9 months, and don't have, and never will have Gren's grasp of the game, char building, and probley everything else that goes into being "one of the greats". It's certainly not for lack of trying, I just don't have the mindset (too old? {51}, too much 60's lifestyle?) who knows. i definately thou appreciate your ideas, comments, and builds. I have never felt any conceit in any of your comments. Personally, I didn't make a batman build because I knew it would be too complicated for myself to play correctly. having the rogue skills is one thing, being able to memorize where all the traps in the horde of quests out there and be competitive with the others who do is another. One can imagine the other grp members thoughts while I am scanning my 3rd or 4th wall for the trap, ( how long is this going to take- geesh) LOL. Your breakdown of the offencive abiliteis of "Robin" is enlighting. Keep it coming man, it's a great help too many of us out there who love the game!

Best,
Wafairer

jorebag
03-22-2007, 05:14 PM
Level 12 Lawful Good Drow Male
(4 Paladin / 8 Ranger)
Hit Points: 148
Spell Points: 150

BAB: 12/12/17/22
Fortitude: 17 (+3) 20 (+2 Cha item boost) 22
Reflex: 18 (+3) 21 (+2 Cha item boost) 23
Will: 12 (+3) 15 (+2 Cha item boost) 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 12)
Strength 14 14 (+5)(+1) 20
Dexterity 15 19 (+5) 24
Constitution 10 10 (+4) 14
Intelligence 13 13
Wisdom 14 14
Charisma 14 18 (+5) 23

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 12)
Balance 2 5
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 4 15
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4
Heal 2 2
Hide 6 20
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 4 8
Listen 4 7
Move Silently 6 20
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 5 13
Spot 6 13
Swim 2 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 4 14.5 (+3) 17.5

Notable Equipment

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Ranger Hide I
Enhancement: Ranger Move Silently I

Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Improved Drow Spell Resistence I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Search I
Enhancement: Ranger Spot I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I

Level 5 (Ranger)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I

Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I

Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Improved Drow Spell Resistence II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II

Level 10 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Improved Drow Spell Resistence III
Enhancement:: Ranger Dexterity II

Level 11 (Ranger)

Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore II
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II

+5 Dex item
+5 Chr item
+5 Str item
+1 Str tome
+4 Con item
Golden Catuche +3 UMD

Weps
+1 Sword of Wounding
+1 Holyburst short sword of pure good

Armor +5 Mith Full Plate
Cloak of Protection +4
Ring of Resistance +3

Grenfell
03-26-2007, 11:45 PM
Wow... I didn't realize people were posting on this thread. :) I actually put it up as a placeholder where I can keep updating as time goes on.

Hey thanks to Dark and others for your kind words -- many of them are undeserved.

For the record, I believe that Elurian, Illuminati, Kraze (when he was playing), and Maldini are probably the best build artists in DDO. If I do anything at all, it's just tweaking ideas here and there, explaining some things, clarifying things that might be a bit harder to understand. I wouldn't personally put me in their category.

Also, on the naming issue... I just name my builds for reference. Batman is the only build name I like to defend because it's such a precise combination: an INTIMIDATE Tank with Rogue abilities. Not all Melee DPS with Evasion and UMD is a "Batman" build.

Finally... if you can find ONE post in which I claim "hey, that's my build" or "this is just a copy of my XYZ build"... uh... let me know. All builds at the end of the day are just ideas, not engineering schematics. I assume everyone takes whatever build -- mine or anyone else's -- and makes it his own, especially now in 3.3.

/gren

PS: By the way... if you think I do this for some sort of ego thing... man... seriously, stop playing video games so much. It's really a sad thing if you base your self-esteem on accomplishments in a game world.

PPS: I will eventually get these updated to 3.3 -- still learning some of the issues myself right now.

stormcrow82
06-22-2007, 11:36 AM
I don't think Gren means to take credit for the different types of builds on DDO. Now him INFORMING people of what can be done is a very nice service, that he doesn't have to do. I appreciate that Gren takes his time to do this periodically. I checked out some of his builds and a lot of others to make several characters of mine. As far as naming a build goes, what's a guy supposed to do? Call it "The Intimidate, High-Attack, High Armor-Class, High-UMD, Use Wand, Ect., Ect., Ect. Character". Name your builds, Gren. More power to ya, and thank you for posting ideas that are very helpful to DDO in general. I'm sure many players other than myself wouldn't have thought about making a Power Gamer build of some sort. Thank you Gren, your time used on the posts is appreciated by at least one player, and I'm sure many, many more do as well.

Ezimachia
08-01-2007, 02:47 PM
Hi Gren!
I love the Holy Avenger build that specializes in UMD. It was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much for posting!!!

Your design recommends that at level 11 & 12 is the first time to take rogue and put all skill points into UMD. I find your reasons for doing this (instead of starting out with rogue at lvl 1) understandable. But I do have one question. A toon can use a raise dead scroll at lvl 7 with a successful UMD check. My question is, why wait until lvl 11 & 12 to do the 2 levels of rogue? Why not do them at lvl 7 & 8, then continue with pally levels after that?

Nodoze
05-02-2009, 12:45 AM
A freind asked me to come back to DDO to help him so I was reviewing the builds in the forums...
~~~
Just checking to see if some of the original contributors and people whose comments I enjoyed learning from are still around...
~~~
Are any of the following still playing?:
Elurian, Gren, Obitus, Trist, & Croix, Maldini, Riot, & Illuminati (sorry if I forgot some names)...

Elurian
07-13-2009, 12:57 AM
A freind asked me to come back to DDO to help him so I was reviewing the builds in the forums...
~~~
Just checking to see if some of the original contributors and people whose comments I enjoyed learning from are still around...
~~~
Are any of the following still playing?:
Elurian, Gren, Obitus, Trist, & Croix, Maldini, Riot, & Illuminati (sorry if I forgot some names)...

Hey Nodoze! I'm back - couldn't resist the pull of 20 levels and 2 new classes to tinker with. And thanks for the kind words, Gren. Are either of you guys still around? :)

Comfortably
07-15-2009, 01:50 AM
Hey Nodoze! I'm back - couldn't resist the pull of 20 levels and 2 new classes to tinker with. And thanks for the kind words, Gren. Are either of you guys still around? :)

2 new classes eh?

Elurian
07-20-2009, 11:23 PM
I've been gone awhile... favored soul and monk both new to me in DDO.

Nodoze
09-04-2009, 03:59 PM
Hey Nodoze! I'm back - couldn't resist the pull of 20 levels and 2 new classes to tinker with. And thanks for the kind words, Gren. Are either of you guys still around? :)Hey Elurian!

Good to see more folk from the old days. Especially some of the original master build crafters AND the ones that were helpful & respectful to others.

I have been settled into a static group with my old HS buds from the old P&P days and having great fun.