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Muykul
01-05-2007, 02:45 PM
I've been reading forum posts on Hagglebots and descided to do a little homework on the highest possible haggle builds possible. There are many different ways to go, but I think it comes down to Human, Drow, Rogue and Sorceror. Human Drow takes the top spot with the highest possible haggle in game, but ultimately might not be very playable (unless your idea of play is sitting around watchign everyone else kill things! =p )

The following are avalible to any character that wants a high haggle:

15 Base (1 lvl or Rogue or Bard for class skill)

+15 - Price Warfare (from Rogue)
+4 - 18 Charisma
+1 - +2 CHA Lvls
+1 - +2 CHA Tome
+3 - +6 CHA Item
+4 - Greater Heroism
+10 - Item (Coin Belt)
+1 - Luck Bonus (Prayer / Rabbit Gloves)
+3 - Skill Focus Haggle
+2 - Negotiator Feat
Total: 59

Thats NOT BAD AT ALL providing you don't mind being a fighter (etc..) with 20 CHA (base!)

You can enhance that with your race as follows.

Human
+5 Human Versatility V
+.5 - +1 Cha - Human Charisma

Drow
+1 - +2 Max CHA

Also Rogues and Sorcs get the following enhancements:

Rogue
+10 Action Boost

Sorc
+7 Skill Interction V
+1.5 - Sorcerrer's CHA III

Granted I could be wrong but it looks to me as if the highest possible haggle possible in game currently is a Human Rogue 11 / Sorc 1 with 77 - Burning 2 Feats and 3 Enhancements to get it.

15 - Base
+15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
+4 - 18 Charisma
+1 - +2 CHA Lvls
+1 - +2 CHA Tome
+3 - +6 CHA Item
4 - Greater Heroism
10 - Item (Coin Belt)
+1 - Luck Bonus (Prayer / Rabbit Gloves)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
+5 Human Versatility V
+10 Rogue Action Boost (lvl 10)
+3 Skill Interaction I (lvl 1)
77 - Total

A more playable close second is a Human Rogue 1 / Sorc 11 with 75.

15 - Base
+15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
+4 - 18 Charisma
+1 - +2 CHA Lvls
+1 - +2 CHA Tome
+3 - +6 CHA Item
4 - Greater Heroism
10 - Item (Coin Belt)
+1 - Luck Bonus (Prayer / Rabbit Gloves)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
+5 Human Versatility V
+3 Rogue Action Boost (lvl 1)
+7 Skill Interaction V
+1.5 - Sorcerrer's CHA III
75.5 - Total

There are a multitude of ways to build your haggle bot, and I don't think most will go for the max haggle build because of how poorly it will do everything except haggle. I'm building a haggle bot tonight and leveling him this weekend... so I'll let you know what I come up with.

Min/Maxers did I miss anything?

Mad_Bombardier
01-05-2007, 02:51 PM
Ranger Action Boost has a boost for skills as well. Although, I don't know if it works on all skills or just class skills and you need to MC in rogue/bard too.

Kargon
01-05-2007, 02:52 PM
Min/Maxers did I miss anything?

Coin belt have Command on it for +2 all charisama skill, yes?

And yes, Ranger skill boost work just like rogue skill boost.

Muykul
01-05-2007, 02:55 PM
Any MCs out there know if its even possible to double boost? Do they stack? Good catch! I'll checkout command later tonight. I'm not sure if it stacks w/ Heroism.

Mad_Bombardier
01-05-2007, 02:56 PM
Command +2 to CHA skills does not stack and is overwritten by the +10 Haggle (also overwritten by a common +3 Haggle item).

Kargon
01-05-2007, 02:57 PM
Cant double boost. using a ranger boost will grey out the rogue boost while coolmadown timer refresh (and they use the same 5 per day, using ranger boost 5 time mean cant use rogue boost till shrine)

Kargon
01-05-2007, 02:58 PM
Command +2 to CHA skills does not stack and is overwritten by the +10 Haggle (also overwritten by a common +3 Haggle item).

Well that just silly! belt overmawriting its own other buff!

MysticRhythms
01-05-2007, 03:04 PM
Since youv'e checked out the bonus that Price Warfare gives, did you manage to see the duration? I'm curious about that.

My Bard is currently sitting at a 40 Haggle with no Greater Heroism clikie (scrolls get him 2 more) and I'm trying to take advantage of it as much as possible.

Do note that you can't cast Prayer in a town setting - you have to use it in a hostile area, so you might have to leap down into a PvP tavern before running over to the vendors. Easy to do in House Phiarlan, Deneith and the Marketplace, but less feasible in House Kundarak and Jorasco.

geoffhanna
01-05-2007, 03:12 PM
I believe you've covered everything. Very thorough!

I thought Price Warfare was a Bard thing tho. Maybe the Character Planner has it wrong?

Also, if you go sor9/rog3 you lose half a point off the Sorceror Charisma but gain a point in Skill Interaction. I think?

MysticRhythms
01-05-2007, 03:13 PM
I will say that I found a Haggle +11 item in Auction House for my Bard.

There's also Bardsong that inspires Competence to increase an allie's skills by +2 but that may not stack with enhancement items. Something to test out from a friendly low-level Bard.

Riddikulus
01-05-2007, 03:47 PM
I don't think the rogue action boost is +10 anymore.

Edit: Yeah, according to this (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51829) both rogue and ranger action boosts are +7 max now.

shiffd
01-05-2007, 07:42 PM
What are the percentages etc. that haggle earn you.

For example my level 5 with a 27 haggle or so, how much more money will they save/earn for transactions at a haggle of 50 or 70? Will items cost 2% less, 10% less? how about sales? I've looked for this answer before. It would be really nice to know waht haggle amounts to in change of price, is it worth it or would we save more plat in the long run with a stronger toon that died less/used less wands?

MysticRhythms
01-06-2007, 10:01 AM
I tested this with my 40-Haggle Bard and my 0-Haggle Warforged test character.

With Haggle <=0 (Having a negative score does nothing different from having a zero score) ...

When I use the term VALUE I mean the gold piece value listed when you examine an item.

When buying items, here are the markups:

Regardless of item type (clothing, armor, weapon, etc):
Fine Enchanted Broker = VALUE*1.35
Magical Broker = VALUE*1.30
Quality Broker = VALUE*1.275
Any Vendor = VALUE*1.20

When selling items, here are the payoffs:
ANY Broker = VALUE*0.15
Any Vendor = VALUE*0.10

So with Zero Haggle, you really should try buying as many things from vendors as possible instead of brokers and you should make every effort to sell to brokers instead of vendors as you will make an extra 5% per item. For example, for +5 weapons, you'll be making at least an extra 2500 gold per sale with 0 Haggle.

Now I did tha math and regardless of whom you SELL something to, each point of Haggle is worth an increase of 0.25%. That means 4 points of Haggle corrsponds to 1%. That means that my Bard Khalmyr gets an extra 10% with his 40 Haggle when selling things.

Someone with a theoretical 80 Haggle would make an extra 20% above the 15% that vendors give.

The easiest thing to remember when selling is that each 4 points of Haggle corresponds to an improvement of 1%.

Now the math is quirky with buying thnigs with Haggle. I know that my Bard with a 40 Haggle can buy from Vendors at 0.951746*VALUE of the item. That leaves room to figure things out because 4 points of Haggle does NOT correspond to 1% here - it's actually a little better.

With 0 Haggle I'm buying at 1.2*VALUE of the item. With a 40 I'm buying at 0.951746*VALUE. That seems to follow a different pattern. It's also different when I buy from the various brokers. I'll have to investigate more.

But one quickie example of best versus worst case:

Selling a 50k item to a Broker with 40 Haggle = 12500 gold
Selling a 50k item to a Vendor with 0 Haggle = 5000 gold

So when you are selling items, try getting the best Haggler in your guild to sell to the brokers whenever possible. You could be making up to 2.5 times more money and that's not with an extreme Haggle skill.

Mad_Bombardier
01-06-2007, 12:23 PM
[When buying items, here are the markups:]
Regardless of item type (clothing, armor, weapon, etc):
Fine Enchanted Broker = VALUE*1.35
Magical Broker = VALUE*1.30
Quality Broker = VALUE*1.275
Any Vendor = VALUE*1.20
Any Vendor = VALUE*1.175 (upon completion of reputation quest)Mystic, this is twice now that I've seen these base numbers posted (other time was on the DDOwiki) and I can't say that I've ever seen it in game. What I have seen is 125% +haggle%, across the board for all brokers. I will check again to put this issue to bed and followup later today.


When selling items, here are the payoffs:
ANY Broker = VALUE*0.15
Any Vendor = VALUE*0.10
Any Vendor = VALUE*0.125 (upon completion of reputation quest)
You also missed Vendor price after completion of the reputation quest (theres one for each House/city ward). Eg., "No more cultists, eh Skarn?" for House K and "You can thank Harbormaster Zin for these discount prices" in the Harbor. I have added those base percents in red to your list.

Lastly, you are correct that Haggle skill = +0.25% / point for selling (up from trade-in) and close for buying and haggle = -0.625% / point for buying (down from markup). So, 2 points of haggle = -1.25%, 4 points of haggle = -2.5%, and 8 points of haggle = -5% (for a nice round number).

geoffhanna
01-06-2007, 04:57 PM
Huh. None of my numbers match any of these.

Last night I tested with my non-haggle specialist. I wasn't very thorough or anything, I was just observing the effect of ranger boost on two transactions.

Character level 8, Haggle only 4. Base sale prices at a vendor 670 and 686. Add a ranger boost, Haggle goes to 8, new selling prices for two items: 710 and 727. That is a 40 (5.970%) and 41 (5.977%) gp increase for 4 haggle, or about 1.5% selling value increase per point of Haggle increase.

shiffd
01-06-2007, 07:08 PM
Good work.

It doesn't matter if our calculations are exact. I just needed rough figures.

I'm trying to figure out if it is always worth mailing items from my low haggle barbarian to my high haggle bard. Further I'm wondering if it is worth having a haggle toon and having my low haggle toons mail stuff to her or if it would be better for all of my toons to have a respectable haggle and just sell their stuff themself.

I figured for now I'm going to go with Haggle bot. Once I get her max leveled it will make playing other toons easy, by conglomerating all my sellable items with one toon (as I also mail collectibles to specific toons to consolidate the workload) I have to make much less runs between brokers etc. (and less collectible runs etc.). Trying to figure out though if this convenience is also earning me money or if it is costing me money.

Anyone of a price range for the postal service. So like heres a calc.

Toon with 4 haggle mails 50k item to bard with 30 haggle, haggler sells it at a broker.

VS

Toon with 4 haggle sells 50k item at broker.

Also if I find an item at a broker for another toon is it better to buy with haggle toon and mail, or should I just have the other toon buy it directly and avoid mailing cost.

Anyway just need a table for mailing prices, I think I can probably find in another thread (if i do I'll try to put link here, or if someone beats me to it).

Distance
01-07-2007, 04:23 PM
Presuasion items, bard songs and the Staff from DQ(good luck +2) for better skills

Thanatos
01-07-2007, 04:36 PM
Do note that you can't cast Prayer in a town setting - you have to use it in a hostile area, so you might have to leap down into a PvP tavern before running over to the vendors. Easy to do in House Phiarlan, Deneith and the Marketplace, but less feasible in House Kundarak and Jorasco.
You can't cast Prayer in PvP, because it has a hostile element to it's AOE. That sucks, because I have to cast it in order to equip my Iron Manacles on my paladin. What you could do is simply pick up quests you have no intention of completing, hop in, buff up, and leave. All zones would be equally accessible that way, but I personally think it's too much trouble to be worth the extra 0.5% that one point will give you.

Thanatos
01-07-2007, 04:46 PM
Good work.

It doesn't matter if our calculations are exact. I just needed rough figures.

I'm trying to figure out if it is always worth mailing items from my low haggle barbarian to my high haggle bard. Further I'm wondering if it is worth having a haggle toon and having my low haggle toons mail stuff to her or if it would be better for all of my toons to have a respectable haggle and just sell their stuff themself.

I figured for now I'm going to go with Haggle bot. Once I get her max leveled it will make playing other toons easy, by conglomerating all my sellable items with one toon (as I also mail collectibles to specific toons to consolidate the workload) I have to make much less runs between brokers etc. (and less collectible runs etc.). Trying to figure out though if this convenience is also earning me money or if it is costing me money.

Anyone of a price range for the postal service. So like heres a calc.

Toon with 4 haggle mails 50k item to bard with 30 haggle, haggler sells it at a broker.

VS

Toon with 4 haggle sells 50k item at broker.

Also if I find an item at a broker for another toon is it better to buy with haggle toon and mail, or should I just have the other toon buy it directly and avoid mailing cost.

Anyway just need a table for mailing prices, I think I can probably find in another thread (if i do I'll try to put link here, or if someone beats me to it).
Mailing costs 2% of the item value, plus one silver.
Each point of Haggle gives 0.5% better prices.
I guess you'd only need a 5-point margin in the haggle scores for the mailing to be profitable.

shiffd
01-08-2007, 03:15 AM
thanks thanatos.

Sometimes I get so use to mailing that I also sometimes accidently place bids with my haggle toon (since she has all the money) for other toons equip. Then I end up having to mail the item unnecessarily costing the mailing cost and stuff.

MysticRhythms
01-08-2007, 09:26 AM
Yes, mailing costs you 2% of what you mail, so you are only making money if you ar mailing to a character whose Haggle is at least 8 points higher than the one doing the mailing.

For high-end items, I actually just bank as many 50K items as I can with a low Haggle guy and wait for a friend to trade them to my high Haggle guy.

The two per cent doesn't seem all that significant but when you play a Bard with a nice UMD and you carry around large stacks of scrolls for emergency use, you really do want to make that cash stretch as far as it can stretch.

I didn't know that your favor actually mattered in terms of Haggle prices. I suppose I should have clarified that my Bard has 2nd tier favor with all of the houses.

And yes, I tried the Prayer clickie in a tavern and it didn't do anything. Unfortunately it lasts only a few seconds so I agree that it's just easier to get yourself some Rabbit Gloves for the permanent bonus.

Dielzen
01-11-2007, 10:25 AM
Favor does NOT influence house prices, completing certain quest arcs does.

Talk to the first person you see in each house as soon as you zone in from the Market to see which story arcs they give discounts for. For the most part, it's self-explanatory. Delara for House J, STK for Marketplace Tent, etc.

Thanatos
01-11-2007, 11:25 AM
And yes, I tried the Prayer clickie in a tavern and it didn't do anything. Unfortunately it lasts only a few seconds so I agree that it's just easier to get yourself some Rabbit Gloves for the permanent bonus.Not until Mod4, no. You might get lucky and find a group that has the persistence to get through Eastern 3 on a consistent basis, but most pickup groups lack either the ability to learn and implement a strategy, the guts to keep trying after the 2nd or 3rd attempt, or both.

I tried for either Spectacular Optics or Rabbit Gloves, and I got Retribution. I tried for SO, RG, or a backup Retribution for when my original breaks, and I got the Coin Belt (I already had a +10 haggle helm, but it was halfling only and buffing my UMD to wear it was slightly annoying). I've since helped other groups get Eastern 3 done, but I wasn't at the right point in the chain to get quest advancement myself, so I haven't been back for another shot.

When I tested some haggle values, it's come up as 0.5% per point of haggle. I guess I may have messed up somewhere, so I'll test again.

What they mean by the "reputation quest" is not favor, but the quest that gets you a discount in the zone.
Waterworks (or maybe just the Harbormaster's Seal?) for the Harbor
Shan-To-Kor for the Marketplace
Delera's Tomb for Jorasco
Splinterskull Fortress for Phiarlan
Scoundrel's Run for Deneith
Cult of the Six for Kundarak

Deneith and Kundarak are weird, it seems like Co6 should be Deneith and maybe Kundarak should be Caverns of Korromar, but whatever.

shiffd
01-11-2007, 07:49 PM
Not until Mod4, no. You might get lucky and find a group that has the persistence to get through Eastern 3 on a consistent basis, but most pickup groups lack either the ability to learn and implement a strategy, the guts to keep trying after the 2nd or 3rd attempt, or both.

I tried for either Spectacular Optics or Rabbit Gloves, and I got Retribution. I tried for SO, RG, or a backup Retribution for when my original breaks, and I got the Coin Belt (I already had a +10 haggle helm, but it was halfling only and buffing my UMD to wear it was slightly annoying). I've since helped other groups get Eastern 3 done, but I wasn't at the right point in the chain to get quest advancement myself, so I haven't been back for another shot.

When I tested some haggle values, it's come up as 0.5% per point of haggle. I guess I may have messed up somewhere, so I'll test again.

What they mean by the "reputation quest" is not favor, but the quest that gets you a discount in the zone.
Waterworks (or maybe just the Harbormaster's Seal?) for the Harbor
Shan-To-Kor for the Marketplace
Delera's Tomb for Jorasco
Splinterskull Fortress for Phiarlan
Scoundrel's Run for Deneith
Cult of the Six for Kundarak

Deneith and Kundarak are weird, it seems like Co6 should be Deneith and maybe Kundarak should be Caverns of Korromar, but whatever.

That only effects the merchants right? Those reputation runs don't effect the brokers do they? IF they do I want to know, my haggler hasn't done those quests in K or D yet.

Bluemystic
01-17-2007, 05:24 AM
Granted I could be wrong but it looks to me as if the highest possible haggle possible in game currently is a Human Rogue 11 / Sorc 1 with 77 - Burning 2 Feats and 3 Enhancements to get it.

15 - Base
+15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
+4 - 18 Charisma
+1 - +2 CHA Lvls
+1 - +2 CHA Tome
+3 - +6 CHA Item
4 - Greater Heroism
10 - Item (Coin Belt)
+1 - Luck Bonus (Prayer / Rabbit Gloves)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
+5 Human Versatility V
+10 Rogue Action Boost (lvl 10)
+3 Skill Interaction I (lvl 1)
77 - Total

A more playable close second is a Human Rogue 1 / Sorc 11 with 75.

15 - Base
+15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
+4 - 18 Charisma
+1 - +2 CHA Lvls
+1 - +2 CHA Tome
+3 - +6 CHA Item
4 - Greater Heroism
10 - Item (Coin Belt)
+1 - Luck Bonus (Prayer / Rabbit Gloves)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
+5 Human Versatility V
+3 Rogue Action Boost (lvl 1)
+7 Skill Interaction V
+1.5 - Sorcerrer's CHA III
75.5 - Total

You have only listed 2 CHA from levels. If you put all 3 level points into CHA then your Rogue11/Sorc1 build comes out as 77.5 (effectively 77) and the Rogue1/Sorc11 build come out as 76. Only one point between the two builds.

Is this correct?

DaveyCrockett
01-24-2007, 01:40 PM
A more playable close second is a Human Rogue 1 / Sorc 11 with 75.

15 - Base
+15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
+4 - 18 Charisma
+1 - +2 CHA Lvls
+1 - +2 CHA Tome
+3 - +6 CHA Item
4 - Greater Heroism
10 - Item (Coin Belt)
+1 - Luck Bonus (Prayer / Rabbit Gloves)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
+5 Human Versatility V
+3 Rogue Action Boost (lvl 1)
+7 Skill Interaction V
+1.5 - Sorcerrer's CHA III
75.5 - Total

And to take it a bit higher (assuming you're capable of acquiring nice things):

15 - Base
15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
11 - 32 Charisma (18base/3lvls/3Sorc CHA/+6 Item/+2 Tome)
4 - Greater Heroism
13 - Haggle +13 Item
2 - Luck Bonus (Staff of Arcane Power)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
5 - Human Versatility V
3 - Rogue Action Boost (lvl 1)
7 - Skill Interaction V
80 - Total

shiffd
01-24-2007, 04:04 PM
And to take it a bit higher (assuming you're capable of acquiring nice things):

15 - Base
15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
11 - 32 Charisma (18base/3lvls/3Sorc CHA/+6 Item/+2 Tome)
4 - Greater Heroism
13 - Haggle +13 Item
2 - Luck Bonus (Staff of Arcane Power)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
5 - Human Versatility V
3 - Rogue Action Boost (lvl 1)
7 - Skill Interaction V
80 - Total

The new collectors in House D now give out alchemical bonus potions, so they give buffs that will stack on top of everything above.

So take this 80 and add....

achemical bonus to CHA +2
Alchemical bonus to Cha skills +2

total 84.

Although it would be a pain to collect those collectibles, stock the potions and hte bonus is temporary.

Also couldn't a bard put a skillsong on you? Wouldn't that help? or is that bonus canceled by the haggle item?

hirmor
02-13-2007, 07:17 PM
And to take it a bit higher (assuming you're capable of acquiring nice things):

15 - Base
15 - Price Warfare (from non-self Rogue)
11 - 32 Charisma (18base/3lvls/3Sorc CHA/+6 Item/+2 Tome)
4 - Greater Heroism
13 - Haggle +13 Item
2 - Luck Bonus (Staff of Arcane Power)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
5 - Human Versatility V
3 - Rogue Action Boost (lvl 1)
7 - Skill Interaction V
80 - Total

Revise your numbers people

No more price warfare -15 :eek:

(BTW that's stupid of Turbine cuz I am cancelling my second account... I won't be needing my rogue on that account to boost the haggle of my main... Well, I will be saving "real money" rather than fictitious platinum coins... Lol)

No more Skill Interaction -7 :(

Reduced effect of Rogue Action Boost I -1:mad:

No such item (+13) -3 :confused:

So your maximum is now 54 (could reach 57 with lvl14, 2 more skill pts and 1 more from Human Ver V)

Here is an alternative build assuming lvl 14 in Mod4:

17 - Base (lvl 14)
9 - 28 Charisma (18base/2lvls/+6 Item/+2 Tome)
4 - Greater Heroism
10 - Haggle +10 Item
2 - Luck Bonus (Staff of Arcane Power)
3 - Skill Focus Haggle
2 - Negotiator Feat
6 - Human Versatility V (likely to be in Mod4)
6 - Rogue Action Boost V (likely to be in Mod4)

59

Short of new items, and use of alchemical boosters (hardly worth the money most of the time), this is the maximum haggle score at lvl14.

Another nerfing!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

hirmor
02-13-2007, 09:15 PM
Well it appears that HV and Rogue boost may no stack. Not sure yet but it would knock out another 6 points... Down to 53. By now, better to be a drow rogue... Maximum of 54

Dielzen
02-13-2007, 10:54 PM
No such item (+13) -3 :confused:


+11 items are lvl 11, +13 items exist as lvl 11 items with a RR.

MysticRhythms
02-14-2007, 07:03 AM
I haven't seen the enhancement trees for Bards or Sorcerers yet. I'm gathering that Bards get access to a Haggle enhancement. It's probably not as good as the old sorcerer enhancement, but it should be factored.

hirmor
02-14-2007, 01:42 PM
I haven't seen the enhancement trees for Bards or Sorcerers yet. I'm gathering that Bards get access to a Haggle enhancement. It's probably not as good as the old sorcerer enhancement, but it should be factored.

Yes but bards don't have skill boost. Nope, rogues will now have, and this would appropriate, the highest possible haggle score in the game. Bards are not thieves and peddlers. Rogues are :) Too bad Price Warfare is gone. I used to use it to help guildies... +15 was very appreciated by our clerics :)

MysticRhythms
02-14-2007, 01:45 PM
Yes but bards don't have skill boost. Nope, rogues will now have, and this would appropriate, the highest possible haggle score in the game. Bards are not thieves and peddlers. Rogues are :) Too bad Price Warfare is gone. I used to use it to help guildies... +15 was very appreciated by our clerics :)

Actually, Human Versatility would apply to the Haggle skill and is just as good as a Rogue's Action Boost. And Bards get Charisma modifiers.

I think Bards will become the lead Hagglers in the game and can at best be tied by Charisma-focused Rogues. It's a shame that Rogues don't get a Charisma enhancement, but their skill boost gives them wider racial choices if they wish to stay top-notch Hagglers.

hirmor
02-14-2007, 01:46 PM
+11 items are lvl 11, +13 items exist as lvl 11 items with a RR.

Technically yes, but never heard of even a +11 haggle item dropping. Let me know if you do and we can adjust the score... But I have a feeling that, like UMD, Turbine has capped haggle items to +10. Part of the overall platinum economy... Keeps us running those loot runs...

hirmor
02-14-2007, 01:56 PM
Actually, Human Versatility would apply to the Haggle skill and is just as good as a Rogue's Action Boost. And Bards get Charisma modifiers.

I think Bards will become the lead Hagglers in the game and can at best be tied by Charisma-focused Rogues. It's a shame that Rogues don't get a Charisma enhancement, but their skill boost gives them wider racial choices if they wish to stay top-notch Hagglers.

I couldnt agree more for the CH enhancement... I have Ch 30 on my rogue but it took a lot of sacrifices to get there... My UMD was high enough to make scroll using a viable option... Raise at 6000gp with less than 10% of failure... Not bad. Averal cost 6600gp per raise. Now, with haggle reduced, scroll will cost more and with UMD reduced, probability of failure will increase... Net effect, I won't be raising people as often... This is really a shame... I realize that UMD for items made too many uber toons with RR equipement but UMC for scrolls and wands was hard enough to make it "a very specialized" path...

hirmor
02-14-2007, 02:09 PM
Okay so let's calculate for a bard too

Max charisma is drow 20, +3 lvls, +2 tome (1750 guaranteed), +3 enhancement, +6 item (very rare)= 34 +12

Skills 17 at lvl 14

Feats +3 and +2

Greater Heroism +4

Staff +2 luck

Bard haggle enhancement +4

Item +10 (no indication of items above +10 for haggle at this time to my "limited" knowledge)

Total of 54...

A human bard would have +5 for H.V he must then sacrifice nearly 75% of his enhancement points to achieve this (not a choice that many will make)... But techincally the max would be 58 (losing 1 for 18 base charisma rather than 20of the drow).

So 58 is the max right now... If my maths are correct :)

MysticRhythms
02-14-2007, 02:13 PM
Technically yes, but never heard of even a +11 haggle item dropping. Let me know if you do and we can adjust the score... But I have a feeling that, like UMD, Turbine has capped haggle items to +10. Part of the overall platinum economy... Keeps us running those loot runs...

My Bard has purchased a Necklace of Haggling +11 on the Auction House. I could do a screen shot but I'm at work at the moment. I forget what I paid for it long ago but it has since paid for itself.

MysticRhythms
02-14-2007, 02:16 PM
I couldnt agree more for the CH enhancement... I have Ch 30 on my rogue but it took a lot of sacrifices to get there... My UMD was high enough to make scroll using a viable option... Raise at 6000gp with less than 10% of failure... Not bad. Averal cost 6600gp per raise. Now, with haggle reduced, scroll will cost more and with UMD reduced, probability of failure will increase... Net effect, I won't be raising people as often... This is really a shame... I realize that UMD for items made too many uber toons with RR equipement but UMC for scrolls and wands was hard enough to make it "a very specialized" path...

It will be easier once we get to play to 14th level.

One thing I've noticed is that my Human Rogue still finds herself wanting to purchase Human Versatility even as a skill boost. It's incredible to have twice as many "boosts" for a Rogue. Basically any time you will be disabling a trap box or searching for it, you'll click your boost and anytime you want to Raise someone outside of combat, you'll click it as well.

It's still a very attractive enhancement to get +3 to anything you do for 3 action points.

MysticRhythms
02-14-2007, 02:21 PM
So 58 is the max right now... If my maths are correct :)

That looks about right for a 14th level Human Bard with a +10 item. And actually, it's not that hard to justify paying for Human Versatility and Haggle IV for a Hagglemeister. the Human gets the bonus of being able to afford the Skill Focus and Negotiator feat much more easily. A Human can also take the Human Charisma I enhancement thus obviating the need for a +6 stat item.

This particular Bard could still do well with Healing and Crowd Control since he's so heavily focused on Charisma. And that's even with the Human Versatility "expense."

MysticRhythms
02-14-2007, 02:24 PM
I did the work for my own Bard and wow do I like the changes. Khalmyr will still get to keep 19 Songs with Inspired Attack II and Inspired Damage III (lowered by +1 from what he does now).

As a bonus, he can afford Wand Mastery III which will be very useful as well as Lignering Song II, a few more spell points and higher Charisma.

He'll aslo have Music of the Makers and Music of the Dead which I was routinely swapping in and out.

Come level 14, he'll have enough skill points to make up for the lost bonus of Human Versatility across all his skills and his song bonuses will be right back up to what they are now.

He'll have lots more abilities. The new enhancement system is almost TOO good :)

Bluemystic
02-14-2007, 11:01 PM
Okay so let's calculate for a bard too

Max charisma is drow 20, +3 lvls, +2 tome (1750 guaranteed), +3 enhancement, +6 item (very rare)= 34 +12

Skills 17 at lvl 14

Feats +3 and +2

Greater Heroism +4

Staff +2 luck

Bard haggle enhancement +4

Item +10 (no indication of items above +10 for haggle at this time to my "limited" knowledge)

Total of 54...

A human bard would have +5 for H.V he must then sacrifice nearly 75% of his enhancement points to achieve this (not a choice that many will make)... But techincally the max would be 58 (losing 1 for 18 base charisma rather than 20of the drow).

So 58 is the max right now... If my maths are correct :)

Is the Cartouche included?

hirmor
02-15-2007, 12:33 PM
Is the Cartouche included?

Nope (I assume you're talking about the Cartouche from Deleras) and doesn't participate in the equation.

hirmor
02-15-2007, 12:33 PM
My Bard has purchased a Necklace of Haggling +11 on the Auction House. I could do a screen shot but I'm at work at the moment. I forget what I paid for it long ago but it has since paid for itself.

Well this is indeed a good news. Haggle +11!!! So there is hope for up even higher. :D

hirmor
02-15-2007, 12:38 PM
I did the work for my own Bard and wow do I like the changes. Khalmyr will still get to keep 19 Songs with Inspired Attack II and Inspired Damage III (lowered by +1 from what he does now).

As a bonus, he can afford Wand Mastery III which will be very useful as well as Lignering Song II, a few more spell points and higher Charisma.

He'll aslo have Music of the Makers and Music of the Dead which I was routinely swapping in and out.

Come level 14, he'll have enough skill points to make up for the lost bonus of Human Versatility across all his skills and his song bonuses will be right back up to what they are now.

He'll have lots more abilities. The new enhancement system is almost TOO good :)

Don't say it... "TOO good" is a dangerous comment. You will make others jealous, they will complaint and... Padaboum... Nerfed!

Old proverb from Confucius... "To live happy, live discretly".

Bluemystic
02-15-2007, 06:18 PM
Nope (I assume you're talking about the Cartouche from Deleras) and doesn't participate in the equation.

Oops sorry, late night posting.

Urguloth
02-15-2007, 06:59 PM
well, this is my take on a haggle build, 28 pts. with easily accessible stuff, but not necessarily specc'd for the new enhancement system, so results may vary!

Oddish combo, but interesting nonetheless! (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84752)

iamsamoth0
08-01-2007, 03:36 PM
reviving this thread? I'd like to see what folks have come up with in the interim, it has been 6 months.

Takers?
Any of these people still here?
Not many of the names are familiar.:(

SabinSeptor
01-06-2008, 05:29 AM
I too would like to see this more in depth. The info here now needs a major update because of all the changes recently. Price Warfare is gone, the Sorcs enhancements aren't there. So far the best I have hit is a 63 haggle (not a made character yet), but that is using different builds, but doing so you need to sacrifice so much. I am however working on a build like this. My character is a Lvl 9 Human Bard and can hit a 49 haggle at the current moment. Still quite a few items i need to get, but wouldn't be able to use yet. I'm working on posting up how I figured the 63 haggle. Taking some time to figure out how to type it all up so its not too confusing lol.

MysticRhythms
01-06-2008, 08:54 AM
Human Bard 14

17 - Ranks
13 - Charisma 37 (18 base +3 lvls +3 Bard Cha III +1 Human Cha I +6 Item +3 Tome +3 Deneith Potion)
03 - Feat: Skill Focus(Haggle)
02 - Feat: Negotiator
04 - Enhancement(Haggle IV)
05 - Enhancement(Human Versatility IV)
04 - Morale(Greater Heroism)
02 - Luck(Raid Item)
15 - Competence - Race Restricted Haggle+15 Item
03 - Skill-boosting House Deneith potion
02 - Another Bard Inspiring your competence

= +70 Haggle

Each +4 in Haggle reduces Item prices (or increases sales prices) by 1&#37; so this Haggle grants you a 17.5% improvement on buying and selling (note that the specialized vendors actually give you more for their specialty).

This requires 2 feats and 34 action points with some fairly rare items and a huge stack of rare collectibles, however.

Mad_Bombardier
01-06-2008, 02:37 PM
Human Bard 14

17 - Ranks
13 - Charisma 37 (18 base +3 lvls +3 Bard Cha III +1 Human Cha I +6 Item +3 Tome +3 Deneith Potion)
03 - Feat: Skill Focus(Haggle)
02 - Feat: Negotiator
04 - Enhancement(Haggle IV)
05 - Enhancement(Human Versatility IV)
04 - Morale(Greater Heroism)
02 - Luck(Raid Item)
15 - Competence - Race Restricted Haggle+15 Item
03 - Skill-boosting House Deneith potion
02 - Another Bard Inspiring your competence
01 - Focusing Chant spell

= +71 HaggleNice post, you just missed one. :)

MysticRhythms
01-06-2008, 08:40 PM
Nice post, you just missed one. :)

I thought Focusing Chant gave a luck bonus. My bad.

shiffd
01-14-2008, 07:44 PM
I thought Focusing Chant gave a luck bonus. My bad.

It does I think but it seems to stack. I wear rabbit gloves (+1 luck, threnal) and it stacks with focusing chant. Most the time I'm around 60 I think. Can't do the math so well. I starting building back when you needed sorc levels for sorc haggle enhancement. I'm a bit screwed now that I lost that, but sorc levels help me with mana for other stuff I guess.

Drow Bard 10/sorc 2/ranger 2

Cha- 20 base 3 levels 6 item 2 tome 3 bard 34 total.

17 (17) ranks
+ 12 (29) CHa
+ 13 (42) item
+5 (47) feats (haggle focus and negotiator)
+3 (50) enhancement (bard haggle)
+1 (51) rabit gloves (luck)
+2 (53) goodhope
+2 (55) ranger skill boost
+1 (56) focusing chant

With Alchemical pots that goes up to 60. WIth Greater hero 62, and with bard song 64.

If I get a raid item I could get 65, If I get +15 haggle item thats as high as 67. With the next mod I should be able to get the haggle item and 2 more ranks, as well as bard haggle IV. That will be 70. If I get +3 charisma Item as high as 71, but still evarging around 60, as I wont be able to throw in uber stuff everytime.

If you want to go with the bard cha base of 20, you can make up for the loss of human versatility with 2 thief or ranger levels and use their skill boosts instead of versatility. These boosts will help the same with UMD as well.

Emili
01-15-2008, 02:43 PM
It does I think but it seems to stack. I wear rabbit gloves (+1 luck, threnal) and it stacks with focusing chant. Most the time I'm around 60 I think. Can't do the math so well. I starting building back when you needed sorc levels for sorc haggle enhancement. I'm a bit screwed now that I lost that, but sorc levels help me with mana for other stuff I guess.

Drow Bard 10/sorc 2/ranger 2

Cha- 20 base 3 levels 6 item 2 tome 3 bard 34 total.

17 (17) ranks
+ 12 (29) CHa
+ 13 (42) item
+5 (47) feats (haggle focus and negotiator)
+3 (50) enhancement (bard haggle)
+1 (51) rabit gloves (luck)
+2 (53) goodhope
+2 (55) ranger skill boost
+1 (56) focusing chant

With Alchemical pots that goes up to 60. WIth Greater hero 62, and with bard song 64.

If I get a raid item I could get 65, If I get +15 haggle item thats as high as 67. With the next mod I should be able to get the haggle item and 2 more ranks, as well as bard haggle IV. That will be 70. If I get +3 charisma Item as high as 71, but still evarging around 60, as I wont be able to throw in uber stuff everytime.

If you want to go with the bard cha base of 20, you can make up for the loss of human versatility with 2 thief or ranger levels and use their skill boosts instead of versatility. These boosts will help the same with UMD as well.

I believe chant stacks because it's actually labeled as a circumstance bonus and not a luck bonus.

SabinSeptor
01-16-2008, 03:13 PM
Mystic you also forgot the other eagles influence pot or whatever it is that adds up to a +3 to your Cha, and stacks with everything, there is at least another +1 to haggle :D