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Synthetic
11-20-2020, 12:17 AM
Does anyone know the MCL of the shadow spells from the feydark illusionist?

Researching this I read they increased them so I figured they'd be on the higher side, but the damage in game is not so promising. Is it possible they were never increased?

My initial testing shows them being cast as level 31 spells, but the damage is less than I'd expect if that was true. I didn't take the feat that increases the MCL, but was previously considering it.

J1NG
11-21-2020, 11:27 AM
Think you're not alone there.

It looks like there's a maximum caster level cap of 30 (max average of around 1070 damage, which is roughly 3.5 die + 2 bonus x 30 level x 6.5 spell power), this is despite me (according to the log) attempting to cast them at Caster Level 41 (fourty one). I can't breach the average numbers for use of it for a long while now and just accepted it, because for me, it's miles better than my standard Blade Barrier, where it comes in half of that, and also evadable. But yeah, there's a cap of some kind there.

Incidentally, the Fan of Shadowblades is also a bit funky, but that'll be for another thread I guess.

J1NG

Synthetic
11-23-2020, 02:35 PM
Thanks for the reply. What build are you running? FVS?

For some reason I'm no longer seeing Caster Level in my combat log for the shadow spells.

I did some math and found without the feat I was averaging damage as would be expected if they capped at level 24/25. With the feat I was capped out at 29/30. I'm guessing this is due to the only caster level affecting them on my character is character level. I don't have anyway to boost it higher at this point.

In theory I think you could get over 30 if you were running FvS which would increase the MCL from 35 with master of shadow to 38 (with the force enhancement) and increase the CL to 33. If you went extreme you could get them to 41MCL and 36CL running magister with focus in illusion. I'll have to check if I have any Arcane caster gear to see if it pushes the Caster level higher.

I feel like you could eke a force build out if you went all in on ruin, g ruin etc but I doubt it would be worth it.

J1NG
11-23-2020, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the reply. What build are you running? FVS?

FvS yes.


For some reason I'm no longer seeing Caster Level in my combat log for the shadow spells.

Odd. Mine are still working.


I did some math and found without the feat I was averaging damage as would be expected if they capped at level 24/25. With the feat I was capped out at 29/30. I'm guessing this is due to the only caster level affecting them on my character is character level. I don't have anyway to boost it higher at this point.

In theory I think you could get over 30 if you were running FvS which would increase the MCL from 35 with master of shadow to 38 (with the force enhancement) and increase the CL to 33. If you went extreme you could get them to 41MCL and 36CL running magister with focus in illusion. I'll have to check if I have any Arcane caster gear to see if it pushes the Caster level higher.

I feel like you could eke a force build out if you went all in on ruin, g ruin etc but I doubt it would be worth it.

Yeah, I have the FvS Cha build so it fits in nicely with using Feydark Illusionist and also why my numbers are a bit higher than yours.

Caster Level is 20 as FvS (FvS Level 20), +3 from Enhancement for increasing Force spells in AoV, +5 from being in Fatesinger (because it counts as caster levels that count for the spell, despite it being different from main class caster type, likely due to the Universal nature of it), and +3 from helm (Faedark Faerielights), giving Level 41 as Caster Level.

But from the numbers I have (given in previous post) it seems to top out at around Caster Level 30 and won't go higher. Which is still dissapointing in terms of numbers, as with 500 odd Force Power (including Max and Emp), I'm only looking at around 1k force damage on average.

:: edit ::

Ah, but I see now there's the new Master of Shadowblades Feat, I don't have that. But +10 MCL, should add to that nicely then. So there is a way to increase it further from MCL of 30 to 40 then. It's just it doesn't seem that useful considering that it's in need of an Epic Feat.

J1NG

droid327
12-03-2020, 11:46 AM
Caster Level is 20 as FvS (FvS Level 20), +3 from Enhancement for increasing Force spells in AoV, +5 from being in Fatesinger (because it counts as caster levels that count for the spell, despite it being different from main class caster type, likely due to the Universal nature of it), and +3 from helm (Faedark Faerielights), giving Level 41 as Caster Level.

But from the numbers I have (given in previous post) it seems to top out at around Caster Level 30 and won't go higher. Which is still dissapointing in terms of numbers, as with 500 odd Force Power (including Max and Emp), I'm only looking at around 1k force damage on average.

Ah, but I see now there's the new Master of Shadowblades Feat, I don't have that. But +10 MCL, should add to that nicely then. So there is a way to increase it further from MCL of 30 to 40 then. It's just it doesn't seem that useful considering that it's in need of an Epic Feat.


20+3+5+3 = 41? o.0 Am I missing an unstated +10 assumption somewhere?


Also the presence of a Master of Shadowblades feat would seem to imply the skills should cap out at ML20 without the feat...otherwise the feat would really be pointless and just a trap.

But from what I've heard, and what I saw testing it on Lama...the Shadowblades are just not good damage regardless, certainly not enough to provide the core DPS for an Illusionist build.

Zarkarion
12-03-2020, 11:54 AM
I can confirm from testing that the Maximum Caster level for Shadowblade and Fan of Shadowblades is almost certainly 20.

Tested at level 23 (Fatesinger 5) with effective spell power (including Maximise and Empower) of 729 giving multiplier of 8.29, giving average damage per caster level of 5.5 x 8.29 = 45.595.

The average non-crit damage on non-sleeping mobs in Lords of Dust normal was 910. This would give a caster level of 19.96, which means the Max Caster level is almost certainly 20.

——————————

It appears that Master of Shadowblades probably increases the max caster level to 30, as it should.

Tested again at level 24 with Master of Shadowblades with effective spell power 736 giving multiplier of 8.36, giving average damage per caster level of 5.5 x 8.36 = 45.98

The actual average non-crit damage was 1339.

This would correspond to a caster level of 29.12.

My actual level is 24, so it looks like the arcane caster level bonuses from Fatesinger do apply to Shadowblade spells, which would give me a caster level of 29, closely matching the above calculation.

Note that I am having to calculate my caster level for shadow spells because, like some others, I am not getting the caster level reported in the combat log.

—————————-

Sadly I forgot to test Ring of Shadowblades till after I took Master of Shadowblades, so I cannot test its Max caster level without the feat. However, with the feat the results were similar to the other two shadowblade spells.

————————-

With 1 more point in Fatesinger I will get Intensify Spell, which will increase effective spellpower to 811, and increase the non-crit damage from each of the shadowblade spells to an average of about 1450 per strike. Not at all spectacular, but together with illusory shortsword and colour spray makes a very decent flavour build.

LurkingVeteran
12-03-2020, 04:26 PM
Think you're not alone there.

It looks like there's a maximum caster level cap of 30 (max average of around 1070 damage, which is roughly 3.5 die + 2 bonus x 30 level x 6.5 spell power), this is despite me (according to the log) attempting to cast them at Caster Level 41 (fourty one). I can't breach the average numbers for use of it for a long while now and just accepted it, because for me, it's miles better than my standard Blade Barrier, where it comes in half of that, and also evadable. But yeah, there's a cap of some kind there.

Incidentally, the Fan of Shadowblades is also a bit funky, but that'll be for another thread I guess.

J1NG

What is funky with it? I was half expecting Fan of Shadowblades to also scale with ranged power like Fan of Knives, but I guess we weren't so lucky?

J1NG
12-05-2020, 12:02 AM
20+3+5+3 = 41? o.0 Am I missing an unstated +10 assumption somewhere?

Oops. Forgot to add my assumed +10 from Epic Levels (or 30 total Character levels, because this is the only Enhancement Ability that appears to utilise a cross selection of stuff in its calculations). Which is the only source of a +10 that appears to be appearing along with the Combat Log that I could find on my FvS that would fit the +10.


Also the presence of a Master of Shadowblades feat would seem to imply the skills should cap out at ML20 without the feat...otherwise the feat would really be pointless and just a trap.

But from what I've heard, and what I saw testing it on Lama...the Shadowblades are just not good damage regardless, certainly not enough to provide the core DPS for an Illusionist build.

Pretty much what I was thinking along both those points. :-/


What is funky with it? I was half expecting Fan of Shadowblades to also scale with ranged power like Fan of Knives, but I guess we weren't so lucky?

Actually, no.

The funkiness I was talking about, was actually related to the physics of its use. Funny you should also mention Fan of Knives, because that's also suffering from the same issue I found; Both Fan of Shadowblades and Fan of Knives can MISS targets in front of you if you have not targetted them. And if you have targetted them, there appears to be "gaps" in the Shadowblades version.

Fan of Knives did not have this issue prior to Feywild, so I can only assume either something to do with the physics overall in game was altered, the model for collision detection was altered that both Fans utilise has been altered, or some type of weird lag that got introduced since Feywild update was released was causing the problem. But it's very consistent with it never making contact with enemies just in front you very often now.

J1NG

Hedd
12-06-2020, 03:57 PM
I was testing to see if the Augment Summoning feats were adding DC like the enhancement said it would (Aparently it doesn't matter if your pet is out or not for it so it's hard to say), and ran across a DC issue with the blades in general. The single and AOE shadowblades have the same listed DC but while filling a friend paladin full of holes with them found that while he made the saves where it seemed he would with the fan, he made every save with single. This suggests that the single target shadowblade isn't working on the listed equation for some reason even though it displays otherwise. I had heard that Highten doesn't work with them but the discrepancy seems a bit too wide for that to be the case.

Zarkarion
12-16-2020, 01:12 PM
ran across a DC issue with the blades in general. The single and AOE shadowblades have the same listed DC but while filling a friend paladin full of holes with them found that while he made the saves where it seemed he would with the fan, he made every save with single. This suggests that the single target shadowblade isn't working on the listed equation for some reason even though it displays otherwise. I had heard that Highten doesn't work with them but the discrepancy seems a bit too wide for that to be the case.

I haven’t formally tested it, but what you describe concords with my impression - that the single shadowblade seems to be resisted more often than the fan of shadowblades.