PDA

View Full Version : DC Casting Alchemist Apothecary



slarden
02-18-2020, 12:12 PM
I am still working on my alchemist past lifes, but I am seeing great potential in Alchemist. I really wanted to make an arcane warrior type build that focused on both casting and martial dps. The problem I run into is that the legendary set bonuses are so strong and throwing requires so many feats. I want to revisit hybrid at some point, but this is what I've come up with so far with pure casting with party healing as a secondary focus- focused on transmutation first but I might also take spell focus conjuration to twist in 2 more conjuration DC from draconic.

I am starting out with a basic template for now and if the build proves to be a solid solo build at level 30 after my alchemist lifes I'll update the build with many more details. I have no doubt a caster alchemist will be a solid build for party play, but the lack of MRR is a problem for soloing. I do have 20% force absorb in my int artifact necklace which helps and evasion - but not sure if I'll get one shot with a 70MRR - will report back in a few weeks.

Race: Gnome

Int
----------
Base:20
Level Ups: 7
Tome: 8
Completionist: 2
Racial Lifes: 2
Racial Completionist: 2
Enhancement Bonus: 22
Insight Bonus: 10
Quality Bonus: 5
Exceptional Bonus: 1
Profane Bonus: 2
Festival Bonus: 2
Artifact Bonus: 3
Reaper Helm Bonus: 2
Apothecary Enhancements: 2
Harper Tree Enhancements: 4
Falconry Enhancements: 1
Apothecary Capstone: 4
Sentient Filigree: 6
Reaper Enhancements: 5
Magister Destiny 4:
Destiny Twists: 2
Ship Buffs: 2
Yugo Potions: 2
Remnant Potions: 2
Total: 122

Transmutation DC

Base: 10
Spell Level: 6
Int Bonus: 56
Focus Feats: 3
Past Lifes Alchemist: 3
Past Life Wizard: 1
Embolden: 2
Scion of the Plane of Earth: 2
Enhancement Bonus: 7
Insightful Bonus: 4
Quality Bonus: 2
Profane Bonus: 2
Augment Bonus: 2
Artifact Bonus: 4
Sentient Bonus: 4
Reaper Enhancements: 4
Magister Cores: 5
Transmutation Specialist: 3
Master of Transmutation: 3
Master Apothecary: 2
Apothecary Cores: 3 (3 from Verdanite)

Total: 130 (127 when not verdanite)

Alchemical Spellcasting Feat - Verdanite reaction: 5 (5 from Verdanite for first 12 seconds - should be sustainable with some practice)

Total: 135

Feats:
1) Maximize
3) Empower (for leveling - might change it later)
4A) Quicken
6) Completionist
8A) Accelerate
9) Spell Focus Transmutation
12) Past Life Wizard
12A) Liquid Courage (int for will saves)
15) Heighten
16A) Liquid Luck (evasion)
18) Greater Spell Focus Transmutation
20) Toxic Tonic (poison immunity)
21) Epic Spell Focus Transmutation
24) Embolden
26) TBD
27) TBD
28) Mass Frog
29) Arcane Pulse
30) TBD
30L) Scion of the Plane of Earth

Not focusing on spell pen but I think there are enough non-spell pen cc spells not to worry about it - with gear I am still looking at a solid spell pen that will even get past drow but won't be no-fail against drow.

For soloing I like ruin and greater ruin for sure @ 27/30. For group play I like enlarge and possibly burst of glacial wrath. If content changes I might focus more on spell pen. The caster level feats are interesting but I don't want to be bothered with constantly worrying about the colors although I need verdanite for 3 transmutation DC so my thinking on that might change. Also, keeping 2 cheap spells on hotbar can quickly activate it.

Dissolve instakill dc can be much higher as its based on heal skill (despite using wisdom for stat) and color spray has daze so dissolve synergizes nice with gnome. The short cool down on turn to frog is amazing- love it.

For elements I like cold/electric because it synergizes well with the cc. Can heal the party if needed - really like the utility of this class so far!

Overall DC potential is quite a bit higher than a warlock and even higher than wizard/favored soul when verdanite is active. I suspect I'll keep my character randowl at cap as an alchemist once I finish his alchemist lifes.

Please note: focus here is on play at level 30 not leveling although leveling with an alchemist isn't bad after the first few levels.

I give the anti-caster/ranged crowd and "anti-anything-new crowd" 2 weeks before they start spamming anti-alchemist nerf posts.

Zaalaos
02-18-2020, 01:00 PM
Your dc's will be a little bit higher, since Verdanite reaction actually gives 1+1 per 5 alchemist levels, not 1+1 per 10. Correct numbers are in feat description of alchemist spellcasting.

Also quick question - does any of alchemist cc spells actually work on reapers? I tried almost everything up to level 5 spells and nothing sticks, since they are incorporeal. Does turn to frog work on them? It starts to annoy me a lot, since reapers got more hp than before patch and i just can't burst them down.

Montegue
02-18-2020, 02:13 PM
Your dc's will be a little bit higher, since Verdanite reaction actually gives 1+1 per 5 alchemist levels, not 1+1 per 10. Correct numbers are in feat description of alchemist spellcasting.

Also quick question - does any of alchemist cc spells actually work on reapers? I tried almost everything up to level 5 spells and nothing sticks, since they are incorporeal. Does turn to frog work on them? It starts to annoy me a lot, since reapers got more hp than before patch and i just can't burst them down.

That might be why we have the spell that puts out a cloud of iron filings. It makes incorp critters corporeal. Turn your reapers into gold!

Zaalaos
02-18-2020, 06:11 PM
That might be why we have the spell that puts out a cloud of iron filings. It makes incorp critters corporeal. Turn your reapers into gold!

I checked that spell before expecting it to work the way you describe it, and revisited it again after your post. It does not work. I get "immune" pop up over reapers whenever I try to make them corporeal.

slarden
02-18-2020, 06:56 PM
I checked that spell before expecting it to work the way you describe it, and revisited it again after your post. It does not work. I get "immune" pop up over reapers whenever I try to make them corporeal.

There is a fix tomorrow and the spell is specifically listed as fixed - not sure if it will work on reapers. I've been beating them through brute force but I will make a better effort to test what works and what doesn't as I start my next life.

Pilgrim1
02-18-2020, 10:59 PM
couple of thoughts from playing my alchemist (lvl 18 atm).

1) I agree magister is the only destiny you can be in, and the focus on transmutation is key.
2) I don't think its viable to maintain the reaction based DC bonus, maintaining your green color will be hard enough as is.
3) Alchemists have very limited CC at range, i think glue bomb is the only consistant one (tho its great!)
4) im thinking of going fire because it has aoe ranged blind (combined with ranged stun from flashbang) make it the only way to get ranged helpless.


Also quick question - does any of alchemist cc spells actually work on reapers? I tried almost everything up to level 5 spells and nothing sticks, since they are incorporeal. Does turn to frog work on them? It starts to annoy me a lot, since reapers got more hp than before patch and i just can't burst them down.

As far as what i have found, only color spray works on reaper. Some instances of spill the bad stuff work, and blind from cindersmoke works to. Also LGS salt is an option. I am thinking about taking a dragonmark feet for mark of stunning in the gnome tree as an option.

slarden
02-19-2020, 09:29 AM
2) I don't think its viable to maintain the reaction based DC bonus, maintaining your green color will be hard enough as is.
.

Not 100%, but if you lead with cure light sla + bottled boost defense right before entering a fight the first spells you want to land are likely yellow and blue anyhow so you can easily have that DC when you need it most - at the beginning of mob fights. So a rotation like:

right before entering combat
cure light SLA + bottled boost defense (7 sp)

start of battle
Turn to frog most dangerous looking enemy from distance
glue bomb
flesh to gold and/or vein feeze
turn to frog enemy that isn't cc'd

dps spells + epic aoes if @ epic levels

reset with cure light sla + bottled boost defense

Zaalaos
02-19-2020, 02:57 PM
There is a fix tomorrow and the spell is specifically listed as fixed - not sure if it will work on reapers. I've been beating them through brute force but I will make a better effort to test what works and what doesn't as I start my next life.

I've checked after todays update - Iron Shavings do turn reapers corporeal, meaning you can hit them with non ghost touch weapon, and debuff shows up if you open their details.
Even in this state they are still immune to - glue bomb, flash freeze, hypnotic combination, flesh to gold, flesh to gold mass and flashbang (stun if blinded, didn't check if it can blind since i was triggering blind with cindersmoke) and vein freeze. Took my time, all those spell end up triggering "immune" popup over reapers. So alchemist has exactly 0 cc options against them. Did not check turn to frog yet, anybody can report on it's effect on reapers?

Also my pet peeve - lvl 3 spell "flash freeze" hits every single corporeal type of enemy - undead, elementals, oozes you name it. Lvl 5 spell "flesh to gold, mass" hits only humanoids/classical undead that have flesh/some outsiders. Can't hit elementals, can't hit twig blights etc. Which is pretty dumb. Just rename "flesh to gold, mass" into "Turn to gold, mass" and let it hit everything flash freeze does. Same goes for single target version of that spell.

EDIT. typos
EDIT2. more typos

capsela
02-20-2020, 07:31 AM
I've checked after todays update - Iron Shavings do turn reapers corporeal, meaning you can hit them with non ghost touch weapon, and debuff shows up if you open their details.
Even in this state they are still immune to - glue bomb, flash freeze, hypnotic combination, flesh to gold, flesh to gold mass and flashbang (stun if blinded, didn't check if it can blind since i was triggering blind with cindersmoke) and vein freeze. Took my time, all those spell end up triggering "immune" popup over reapers. So alchemist has exactly 0 cc options against them. Did not check turn to frog yet, anybody can report on it's effect on reapers?

Also my pet peeve - lvl 3 spell "flash freeze" hits every single corporeal type of enemy - undead, elementals, oozes you name it. Lvl 5 spell "flesh to gold, mass" hits only humanoids/classical undead that have flesh/some outsiders. Can't hit elementals, can't hit twig blights etc. Which is pretty dumb. Just rename "flesh to gold, mass" into "Turn to gold, mass" and let it hit everything flash freeze does. Same goes for single target version of that spell.

EDIT. typos
EDIT2. more typos

Frog does nothing to reapers.

Zaalaos
02-20-2020, 07:53 AM
Frog does nothing to reapers.

Cool, this means alchs have exactly 0 ways to deal with them, making them obsolete in high R content, especially after ninja hp buffs. Wizards/sorcs will do more spell damage, crowd control more stuff (well reapers at least, alchs do have better options against corporeal undead, golems and vermin), and bring nothing to a party buff wise since all their buffs are self only. Unless there is some hidden top secret op build I don't see them competing with classical arcanes since their spells don't really scale too well with levels and they need to keep not 1, not 2, but 5 spell powers up at all times. I also find Vile Chemist tree to be significantly worse than EK for melee. Gonna check how knife thrower alchemist fares after reincarnation.

slarden
02-26-2020, 09:57 AM
Cool, this means alchs have exactly 0 ways to deal with them, making them obsolete in high R content, especially after ninja hp buffs. Wizards/sorcs will do more spell damage, crowd control more stuff (well reapers at least, alchs do have better options against corporeal undead, golems and vermin), and bring nothing to a party buff wise since all their buffs are self only. Unless there is some hidden top secret op build I don't see them competing with classical arcanes since their spells don't really scale too well with levels and they need to keep not 1, not 2, but 5 spell powers up at all times. I also find Vile Chemist tree to be significantly worse than EK for melee. Gonna check how knife thrower alchemist fares after reincarnation.

At least for heroic levels dps is enough. I am seeing reapers cc'd from color spray and I would expect to see cc from spill the bad stuff but never do - not just reapers in general color spray is way more effective which seems wrong. So it seems something is wrong with this part of spill the bad stuff spell: " Blinded, Dazed, Silenced, Tripped, Stunned, or Paralyzed. (Fortitude save negates)."

SerPounce
03-01-2020, 06:24 AM
This is good stuff. Thanks for posting. What's exactly is your enhancement set up? Looks like 41 in apothecary with most of the rest in racial and universals for max INT? I would think the +MRR cap in t2 bombardier would be really tempting even if it meant losing a point of DC or so.

ChemE
03-03-2020, 06:23 PM
I would assume since you went gnome then deep gnome will be just as good to knock out a past life. I have several hearts to get rid of the wizard level.

slarden
03-04-2020, 10:46 AM
This is good stuff. Thanks for posting. What's exactly is your enhancement set up? Looks like 41 in apothecary with most of the rest in racial and universals for max INT? I would think the +MRR cap in t2 bombardier would be really tempting even if it meant losing a point of DC or so.

Initially was super focused on dc and went harper as my secondary tree but now it's as follows:

Apothecary: 42
Vile Chemist: 4 (basically for super cheap 2 spell point blue sla for resetting to green)
Bombadier: 31
rest: racial tree (and falconry if extra points)

But I am planning to go T5 Apothecary with Bombadier capstone next life to see how it works. So that will be 41 Bombadier, 36 Apothecary and 4 Vile Chemist. Frogging should be solid even with a slightly lower DC.

I agree Stone of the Savant is the way to go for the MRR cap increase which stacks with the esoteric MRR cap increase. 90 in a robe with evasion and out-of-this world saves isn't so bad.


I would assume since you went gnome then deep gnome will be just as good to knock out a past life. I have several hearts to get rid of the wizard level.

probably better because the pk sla is useful in many places while leveling.

ChemE
03-06-2020, 02:50 PM
This is a very helpful thread and thank you for that. If you get time, would you mind updating us with the spells you took leveling up?

lillentle
03-07-2020, 01:57 AM
I am still working on my alchemist past lifes, but I am seeing great potential in Alchemist. I really wanted to make an arcane warrior type build that focused on both casting and martial dps. The problem I run into is that the legendary set bonuses are so strong and throwing requires so many feats. I want to revisit hybrid at some point, but this is what I've come up with so far with pure casting with party healing as a secondary focus- focused on transmutation first but I might also take spell focus conjuration to twist in 2 more conjuration DC from draconic.

I am starting out with a basic template for now and if the build proves to be a solid solo build at level 30 after my alchemist lifes I'll update the build with many more details. I have no doubt a caster alchemist will be a solid build for party play, but the lack of MRR is a problem for soloing. I do have 20% force absorb in my int artifact necklace which helps and evasion - but not sure if I'll get one shot with a 70MRR - will report back in a few weeks.

Race: Gnome

Int
----------
Base:20
Level Ups: 7
Tome: 8
Completionist: 2
Racial Lifes: 2
Racial Completionist: 2
Enhancement Bonus: 22
Insight Bonus: 10
Quality Bonus: 5
Exceptional Bonus: 1
Profane Bonus: 2
Festival Bonus: 2
Artifact Bonus: 3
Reaper Helm Bonus: 2
Apothecary Enhancements: 2
Harper Tree Enhancements: 4
Falconry Enhancements: 1
Apothecary Capstone: 4
Sentient Filigree: 6
Reaper Enhancements: 5
Magister Destiny 4:
Destiny Twists: 2
Ship Buffs: 2
Yugo Potions: 2
Remnant Potions: 2
Total: 122

Transmutation DC

Base: 10
Spell Level: 6
Int Bonus: 56
Focus Feats: 3
Past Lifes Alchemist: 3
Past Life Wizard: 1
Embolden: 2
Scion of the Plane of Earth: 2
Enhancement Bonus: 7
Insightful Bonus: 4
Quality Bonus: 2
Profane Bonus: 2
Augment Bonus: 2
Artifact Bonus: 4
Sentient Bonus: 4
Reaper Enhancements: 4
Magister Cores: 5
Transmutation Specialist: 3
Master of Transmutation: 3
Master Apothecary: 2
Apothecary Cores: 3 (3 from Verdanite)

Total: 130 (127 when not verdanite)

Alchemical Spellcasting Feat - Verdanite reaction: 5 (5 from Verdanite for first 12 seconds - should be sustainable with some practice)

Total: 135

Feats:
1) Maximize
3) Empower (for leveling - might change it later)
4A) Quicken
6) Completionist
8A) Accelerate
9) Spell Focus Transmutation
12) Past Life Wizard
12A) Liquid Courage (int for will saves)
15) Heighten
16A) Liquid Luck (evasion)
18) Greater Spell Focus Transmutation
20) Toxic Tonic (poison immunity)
21) Epic Spell Focus Transmutation
24) Embolden
26) TBD
27) TBD
28) Mass Frog
29) Arcane Pulse
30) TBD
30L) Scion of the Plane of Earth

Not focusing on spell pen but I think there are enough non-spell pen cc spells not to worry about it - with gear I am still looking at a solid spell pen that will even get past drow but won't be no-fail against drow.

For soloing I like ruin and greater ruin for sure @ 27/30. For group play I like enlarge and possibly burst of glacial wrath. If content changes I might focus more on spell pen. The caster level feats are interesting but I don't want to be bothered with constantly worrying about the colors although I need verdanite for 3 transmutation DC so my thinking on that might change. Also, keeping 2 cheap spells on hotbar can quickly activate it.

Dissolve instakill dc can be much higher as its based on heal skill (despite using wisdom for stat) and color spray has daze so dissolve synergizes nice with gnome. The short cool down on turn to frog is amazing- love it.

For elements I like cold/electric because it synergizes well with the cc. Can heal the party if needed - really like the utility of this class so far!

Overall DC potential is quite a bit higher than a warlock and even higher than wizard/favored soul when verdanite is active. I suspect I'll keep my character randowl at cap as an alchemist once I finish his alchemist lifes.

Please note: focus here is on play at level 30 not leveling although leveling with an alchemist isn't bad after the first few levels.

I give the anti-caster/ranged crowd and "anti-anything-new crowd" 2 weeks before they start spamming anti-alchemist nerf posts.


I dunno, I'm at cap now as an alchemist and I don't see how I'd get those kinda DC's.. or that kind of INT. I don't think you can get +22 enchantment and +10 insight, because you can't use two artifacts. I didn't even know you could get +2 abilities in reaper mode, that must be insanely rare, even harder to fit it on your alchemist gear. You've gone 24 points into harper for +4 int.. which is ?? Where are you getting the +3 artifact? I don't think you can even pull a set off with the gear you'll be using.. Also +6 from sentience? Which is that from? And who would use 2 twists slots for +2 int?
Yugo pots don't stack with the +4 alchemist bonus that alchemists get.

It seems like you haven't actually ran these stats, I want to know how high I can get my DC's and INT without sacrificing all my other skills.

2 4 AP for 4 int ****

ChemE
03-07-2020, 06:30 AM
I dunno, I'm at cap now as an alchemist and I don't see how I'd get those kinda DC's.. or that kind of INT. I don't think you can get +22 enchantment and +10 insight, because you can't use two artifacts. I didn't even know you could get +2 abilities in reaper mode, that must be insanely rare, even harder to fit it on your alchemist gear. You've gone 24 points into harper for +4 int.. which is ?? Where are you getting the +3 artifact? I don't think you can even pull a set off with the gear you'll be using.. Also +6 from sentience? Which is that from? And who would use 2 twists slots for +2 int?
Yugo pots don't stack with the +4 alchemist bonus that alchemists get.

It seems like you haven't actually ran these stats, I want to know how high I can get my DC's and INT without sacrificing all my other skills.

2 4 AP for 4 int ****

I can hit on a few of these. My last wiz life I could hit 122 intel with completionist and 120 without after the alchemist update wiped it out. You can actually get 9 intel from filigree and have 3 complete 4 item sets in beholder, grave and otto by utilizing a +2 raid filigree on both the sentient weapon and the zakarish ward. All of those will stack. I know what the wiki says but, trust me, its wrong. Having a beholder intel and otto intel in both stack with everything else. You can substitute the robe for the blackmail in both heroic and legendary and get the dreadkepper set for +2/+4 artifact intel, stygian wrath will give you +3/+10 insightful. I dont have a reaper helm so cant count that. You also get 1 static from reaper. I could easily hit 130 necro dc with 1100 necro spell power with about 1060 poison spell power.

SerPounce
03-07-2020, 03:35 PM
I dunno, I'm at cap now as an alchemist and I don't see how I'd get those kinda DC's.. or that kind of INT. I don't think you can get +22 enchantment and +10 insight, because you can't use two artifacts. I didn't even know you could get +2 abilities in reaper mode, that must be insanely rare, even harder to fit it on your alchemist gear. You've gone 24 points into harper for +4 int.. which is ?? Where are you getting the +3 artifact? I don't think you can even pull a set off with the gear you'll be using.. Also +6 from sentience? Which is that from? And who would use 2 twists slots for +2 int?
Yugo pots don't stack with the +4 alchemist bonus that alchemists get.

It seems like you haven't actually ran these stats, I want to know how high I can get my DC's and INT without sacrificing all my other skills.

2 4 AP for 4 int ****

It's more useful to have a complete list of all the possible INT and DC boosts and then work backwards on what you don't think you can get or what you want to trade out for other utility. Personally I don't see myself having either a reaper helm or racial completionist so I'm can't really hit that either, but it's nice to see the list to know what to get and ballpark how close you're going to be (and if that's going to be enough to be effective).

slarden
03-17-2020, 12:02 PM
I dunno, I'm at cap now as an alchemist and I don't see how I'd get those kinda DC's.. or that kind of INT. Thanks for the feedback. This thread was really designed to show what was possible with Alchemist Transmutation DCs It wasn't meant to present a solid build as I and the rest of the community were still learning what was possible.


I don't think you can get +22 enchantment and +10 insight, because you can't use two artifacts.

My most recent build is the one I am most happy with for soloing so far - this isn't a max transmutation dc build - but still with solid dc. It's a poison based bombardier / transmutation DC Focused secondary with heavy investment in apothecary and a few points in vile chemist for stiffen skin as cheap blue sla.




My 22 int came from "The Zarash'ack Ward" which is an artifact that also has +2 quality spell focus dc and holds 3 filigree with 3 different +1 int. The necklace also has a transmutation augment giving another +2 dc to transmutation.
My 10 insightful int came from "Legendary Shattered Onyx" which also includes +2 profane spell focus. There are a number of sharn items that let you craft +10 insightful stat. It also has a festive int +2 augment that stacks with other int sources
Legendary Celestial Sapphire Ring gives +2 profane to all stats and has 21 con crafted. It also has 21 dodge to go with 10 insightful dodge on the legendary shattered onyx.s
Nightmother scepter has 4 piece otto set with + int and 4 piece eye of the beholder set with +1 and +2 int
I use legendary stygian wrath orb and legendary silverthread belt to boost my poison spellpower and crits. The orb has +10 insightful wisdom for heal school and mass frog boost
I use esoteric set with legendary order's garb, legendary aetherband and legendary dusk lenses. Dusk Lenses along with quality spell power from necklace gives good spellpower in all schools. Robe gives a 15% exceptional boost to lore for all spell types and stacks with the orb. Set bonus gives +4 int and +4 to all school dcs. Stacks with everything
Legendary Cloak of the City Champion gives +10 insightful con and +10 insightful bonus to saves + quality prr
Slaver crafted boots and trinket with 27% fire and force lore (gold breath, energy burst, epic force slas and spells), +4 quality int and +4 quality con (opted it over the +5 quality boots which overlap with the goggles). It also gives me sheltering to max out my mrr at 90 and wizardry, spellcraft, concentration
Legendary Hands of House Jorasco to max out heal skill and some heal amp (most likely item to be replaced)
Legendary Drow's Sage Cowl for 80 heal amp, 19 wisdom for mass frog
Run in magister with 4 int, maxed transmutation line, +6 will save and don't fail on a 1, Arcane tempest - spell point discount doesn't stack with bracers so don't take it.



I didn't even know you could get +2 abilities in reaper mode, that must be insanely rare, even harder to fit it on your alchemist gear. It's rare except when there is a loot bonus weekend when reaper bonuses in general drop much more frequently. Loot bonus weekend is a good time farm out hats. Certainly not worth a reroll to try and get it even when there is a bonus...


You've gone 24 points into harper for +4 int.. This was my first thought for a dc focused R10 build. As I solo a lot I obviously want bombardier for the dps.


Where are you getting the +3 artifact? I don't think you can even pull a set off with the gear you'll be using.. Also +6 from sentience? Which is that from? And who would use 2 twists slots for +2 int?

It should be +4 artifact bonus rather than +3. It's from the esoteric set listed above. For sentience alchemist benefits from eye of the beholder which has both a +1 int and +2 int filigree: +1 int eye, +2 int eye, +1 int otto, 3 different +1 int in necklace for a total of +6.

One of the twist is tier 3 arcane hymn which provides all of this: Arcane Resonance: +1 to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma, +20 Universal Spell Power, +2 Spell Penetration, +4 Use Magic Device, +10% to your Fire, Cold, Acid and Electric Absorption.


Yugo pots don't stack with the +4 alchemist bonus that alchemists get.

My experience is they stack with everything. I am not sure what you mean here, but would appreciate any insights for sure.



It seems like you haven't actually ran these stats, I want to know how high I can get my DC's and INT without sacrificing all my other skills.

2 4 AP for 4 int **** The list was intended to show the art of the possible and nothing more since Alchemist was new and the community was trying to share information - that was my intent - not to present a full build. Obviously few people in the game have all the bonsues and they certainly aren't needed. What I mainly wanted to show that DC potential was super high allowing an alchemist to have a workable dc while still making some trade-offs. I did actually reconcile with my character although I did miss a few things such as greater evolution and has the artifact bonus 1 less than it should have been.

Here is an update adjusting the artifact bonus, removing harper, but adding bombardier and racial. Adding greater evolution and removing 4 from transmutation DC by picking bombardier for capstone and tier 5 rather than apothecary. Still a respectable DC.

Race: Gnome
Int
----------
Base:20
Level Ups: 7
Tome: 8
Completionist: 2
Racial Lifes: 2
Racial Completionist: 2
Enhancement Bonus: 22
Insight Bonus: 10
Quality Bonus: 4
Exceptional Bonus: 1
Profane Bonus: 2
Festival Bonus: 2
Artifact Bonus: 4
Reaper Helm Bonus: 2
Apothecary Enhancements: 2
Bombadier Enhancements: 2
Gnome Enhancements: 2
Falconry Enhancements: 1
Bombadier Capstone: 4
Sentient Filigree: 6
Reaper Enhancements: 5
Magister Destiny 4:
Destiny Twists: 2
Ship Buffs: 2
Greater Evolution: 4
Remnant Potions: 2
Total: 124

Transmutation DC
Base: 10
Spell Level: 6
Int Bonus: 57
Focus Feats: 3
Past Lifes Alchemist: 3
Past Life Wizard: 1
Embolden: 2
Scion of the Plane of Earth: 2
Enhancement Bonus: 7
Insightful Bonus: 4
Quality Bonus: 2
Profane Bonus: 2
Augment Bonus: 2
Artifact Bonus: 4
Sentient Bonus: 4
Reaper Enhancements: 4
Magister Cores: 5
Transmutation Specialist: 3
Master of Transmutation: 3
Apothecary Cores: 1 (1 from Verdanite)
Total: 127 (124 when not verdanite)
Alchemical Spellcasting Feat - Verdanite reaction: 5 (5 from Verdanite for first 12 seconds - should be sustainable with some practice)
Total: 132

Conjuration DC is higher, although very few cc and control spells are conjuration based.

Enjoy Alchemist!

slarden
03-17-2020, 12:57 PM
This is a very helpful thread and thank you for that. If you get time, would you mind updating us with the spells you took leveling up?

Not really a leveling guide, but here are spells I found useful - even if only situationally. Obviously level 1 vial is useful at low levels and less useful at some point.

Level 1:

Fine Dust
Sleep Powder


Level 2:

Glue Bomb


Level 3:

Flash Freeze


Level 4:

Vein Freeze
Voltaic Burst (potential for MRR reduction, haven't used much yet)
Corrosive Dust (constructs)
Bottled Boost: Sprint
Flesh to Gold


Level 5:

Poison Breath
Flesh to Gold Mass
Turn to Frog
Greater Evolution
Multivial of Poison


Level 6:

Gold Breath
Elemental Combination
Dust of Confusion
Goldskin Potion
Greater Soulshatter Poison Imbue


Other

Color Spray - Gnome Tree
Arcane Tempest - Magister
Energy Burst - Twist from Draconic
Insidious Spores - Twist from Primal Avatar
Spill the Bad Stuff - Apothecary - the procs seem less useful than color spray - might be bugged
Cure/Heal SLAs - Apothecary - would never use actual spells
Rejuvenation Cocoon - not critical but helpful.
Bombadier SLAs - cheap dps

Pilgrim1
03-18-2020, 12:58 AM
~snip~

Thanks for sharing your gear list.
Since your going poison have you thought about using dead keeper set instead. You would need to use clouded dreams to get your crit back, but its very posible to make a gear set with that. deadkeeper set also has light armor so you could use that to up your MRR cap.
I have in the past been quite challenged by reapers, this epic life im going to use legendary salt in my off hand to help CC them.


Have you considered going fire instead of poison? Fire allows emperian magic for 10% more universal crit chance. I'm also having good luck with cindersmoke.

slarden
03-19-2020, 06:08 AM
Thanks for sharing your gear list.
Since your going poison have you thought about using dead keeper set instead. You would need to use clouded dreams to get your crit back, but its very posible to make a gear set with that. deadkeeper set also has light armor so you could use that to up your MRR cap.
I have in the past been quite challenged by reapers, this epic life im going to use legendary salt in my off hand to help CC them.


Have you considered going fire instead of poison? Fire allows emperian magic for 10% more universal crit chance. I'm also having good luck with cindersmoke.

You are right! I need to redo my gear with dreadkeeper - I forgot about the 15% exceptional + 10% artifact bonus combo. I use some fire already so can take a look at empyrean magic as a way to possibly get to/near 100% crit chance. Am really liking poison but will take a harder look at fire.

ChemE
03-19-2020, 12:08 PM
You are right! I need to redo my gear with dreadkeeper - I forgot about the 15% exceptional + 10% artifact bonus combo. I use some fire already so can take a look at empyrean magic as a way to possibly get to/near 100% crit chance. Am really liking poison but will take a harder look at fire.

The dreadkeeper set use Blackmail which is medium and the grey leathers which is light. Both have negative healing amp so I am using the dreadkeeper robes which adds a little more dps. Does anyone know if the stygian wrath was fixed today?

ChemE
03-21-2020, 12:21 PM
It was a little rocky getting here but at 29 with full sharn gear and everything else, dvs over a hundred, 1000 poison spell power and 89% poison crits, this thing is near sorc strength on my sorc lives. 4000 so and 1200 hp to boot.

slarden
03-22-2020, 08:15 PM
The dreadkeeper set use Blackmail which is medium and the grey leathers which is light. Both have negative healing amp so I am using the dreadkeeper robes which adds a little more dps. Does anyone know if the stygian wrath was fixed today?

Not yet but I believe lynabel said it was fixed internally and would be in an upcoming patch. The most recent patch was only changes to support the recent announcement on free content according to the devs.

slarden
03-22-2020, 08:18 PM
The dreadkeeper set use Blackmail which is medium and the grey leathers which is light. Both have negative healing amp so I am using the dreadkeeper robes which adds a little more dps. Does anyone know if the stygian wrath was fixed today? I am looking at the robe also - 70MRR isn't so bad with the high reflex save and the 20% force absorb in the necklace - but want to understand my potential for getting one shot with such a low MRR.

DrawingGuy
03-23-2020, 04:54 AM
I've been using the Esoteric setup myself. I like what I run with, and while I know it is sacrilege to Slarden to not run full HAMP 100% of the time (hot keying triple hamp affirmation for the 1k HP procs or for heals works well imo), will list it here anyways:

Armor: Legendary Order's Garb
Goggles: Legendary Dusk Lenses
Helm: Legendary Hardened Hide
Necklace: The Zarash'ack Ward
Trinket: Slave Lords Crafted: WIS 17 / 27% Force Lore / Spellsight 22 / Quality Int 4
Cloak: Legendary Cloak of the City Champion
Belt: Silverthread if Poison, Burnscar if Fire/Acid, Thrummingspark if Cold/Electric
Gloves: Legendary Sunstone Gauntlets
Boots: LGS Crit Damage (haven't tested if Nullification Crit Damage applies to poison as I didn't stay Poison spec long enough to bother) / LGS Unconscious Range if the buffer is needed
Bracers: Legendary Aetherband
Ring 1: Legendary Shattered Onyx
Ring 2: Legendary Celestial Sapphire Ring

Main: Nightmother's Sceptre
Offhands:
-- LGS Affirmation: 1k HP proc or heals
-- LGS Salt when no other CC for Reapers
-- Legendary Stygian Wrath with +10 Insightful WIS for Poison DPS or just for Mass Frog
-- LGS debuffers (Ooze/Ash/Dust)


I haven't really thought about how to fit in Dreadkeepers. My setup can plug and play any element. In regards to Poison vs Fire:

Poison:
Pros:
+ Between Stygian and Dreadkeeper, highest crit chance potential
+ Synergy with heals with Silverthread
+ If running with an Undead Wizard, you can pop on Undeath Salve and heal each other.
+ One of the only two elements with a Breath Attack for Alchemist (Poison Breath attack)
+ Stone of the Savant gives +20 MRR and MRR cap while using obrs, giving you 90 in Esoteric and 70 in Dreadkeepers, and works well with a Stygian Orb main.

Cons:
- No level 2 debuff potion spell
- Consider Heartstopper to be the weakest of the Level 3 damage spells
- No level 4 debuff potion spell
- All Reapers are Poison Immune meaning all initial hits are wasted removing immunity and need alternates sub-12
- Stygian competes with LGS offhands


Fire:
Pros:
+ Synergy with Sorcers. Fire is one of the most common Sorc type, and their debuff they use on bosses is giving you 15% more DPS too
+ Cinder + Flash combo for full damage
+ Spells and debuffs through all spell levels
+ Gold Breath is fire + force based
+ Empyrean Magic is easily maintained
+ Tiefling race for more fire Spell Power and early level immunity removals as well as +5% more damage with fire. Or synergy with Tiefling Scoundrel past life grinds
+ 9% crit chance with Energy Criticals
+ Spiral swap for 50 Fire SP and 20% Exc Crit for Fire (only a 20/5 gain, but still something if you are minmaxing)
+ Remove immunities for Draconic Incarnation abilities

Cons:
- No real good Fire (or Ice/Acid/Electric for that matter) set bonus that plays well with INT
- No Insightful Fire Lore items
- More target types have immunity or absorption (though I consider the Reaper poison immunity to be a bigger downside)


Personally I prefer Fire. Removing immunities for Draconic and better fire spells in general for Alchemist has made it feel stronger despite the loss to crit potential. Part of that may be due to my not using Dreadkeeper during my Poison run, but I don't see that extra 10% crit chance being the edge to win over the pros of Fire. I also find I heal for plenty even with Silverthread loss (problem has always been the unquickened throw giving your intended target plenty of time to mess up the pathing along with the general issue of potion throw clunkiness... not the heal amount).

Pilgrim1
03-23-2020, 04:58 PM
Dont forget you can use echo of the tome of strahd to get +5% insightful spell lore (also golden orb of death). You can also get 5% cold on a filigree.

Of course geting insightful lore of any type requires you to give up your off hand witch means no legendary salt or ash.

Tilomere
03-23-2020, 05:55 PM
Why don't you go bladeforged, use the arti set for int/dcs, and then it is 1 feat for adamantine body. Otto's ASF reduction in weapon/artifact for 20% ASF reduction and 2/4 pieces of set, and racial ap for 15 more gives plate with 0 ASF. Then use any ASF reduction augment in a crystaline ward shield. Arti set also has mrr + ins. mrr + shield mrr, doubled vs. reflex.

BF gives you quickened recon, and you can still life salve yourself for non-quickened heal. Since recon is a transmutation spell, you will even add a few more to cap in magistar.

Edit: nvm life salve description or ability is bugged and can't be used on yourself!

DrawingGuy
03-24-2020, 09:22 PM
While Golden Orb and Strahd Tome is 5% more crit to everything, I do question if it would beat out Ooze or Ash for DPS (unless someone else is applying). But for those that don't have LGS, it is a good option. I would go with the Golden Orb of Death for the 20% elemental absorb along with the 5% crit.

I tested LGS Negative Crit damage - it DOES apply to both Nullification and Poison. That means Poison builds can fully take advantage of their 100% crit potential. Fire and the other elements can reach up to 96% currently on a pure alchemist. Personally I sit at 74% with Empyrean stacks, 79% with Golden Orb.

slarden
04-02-2020, 12:32 AM
While Golden Orb and Strahd Tome is 5% more crit to everything, I do question if it would beat out Ooze or Ash for DPS (unless someone else is applying). But for those that don't have LGS, it is a good option. I would go with the Golden Orb of Death for the 20% elemental absorb along with the 5% crit.

I tested LGS Negative Crit damage - it DOES apply to both Nullification and Poison. That means Poison builds can fully take advantage of their 100% crit potential. Fire and the other elements can reach up to 96% currently on a pure alchemist. Personally I sit at 74% with Empyrean stacks, 79% with Golden Orb. Great news on the LGS crit damage - was banking on that. Orbs have some nice incentives for alchemist - if I used LGS it would probably only be very situational. Golden orb is always a great choice, but I'll likely go stygian to max out the poison crit.



Why don't you go bladeforged, use the arti set for int/dcs, and then it is 1 feat for adamantine body. Otto's ASF reduction in weapon/artifact for 20% ASF reduction and 2/4 pieces of set, and racial ap for 15 more gives plate with 0 ASF. Then use any ASF reduction augment in a crystaline ward shield. Arti set also has mrr + ins. mrr + shield mrr, doubled vs. reflex.


BF gives you quickened recon, and you can still life salve yourself for non-quickened heal. Since recon is a transmutation spell, you will even add a few more to cap in magistar.

Edit: nvm life salve description or ability is bugged and can't be used on yourself!

Great creative ideas. I am actually looking at bladeforged for a final life but it would be with the dreadkeeper set and legendary sinsoul docent - mithral plating for evasion. With stone of the savant and mithral plating I would have 120 MRR cap which I think is plenty with evasion and possibly even epic reflexes. 120 MRR gives 54.55% mitigation and 180 MRR gives 64.29% mitigation. That extra MRR Just isn't worth giving up evasion to me. Orb is highly incentivized for an alchemist so I don't see using a shield.

mr420247
04-15-2020, 06:38 PM
Curious did you ever test tier 1 insidious spores is the dps any good with max crits and could a tiefling scorch remove the rust immunity or any way to do that

Gizah
05-07-2020, 12:53 PM
Are there update for maximize dc and dmg?

I decided to roll an alchemist! I think trasmu based for cc but i want make dmg. So what do u think about dragoborn or tielfing (have all races pl) for max dmg as possible and based trasmu for cc obviusly!