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jskinner937
06-25-2019, 06:58 AM
The goal of this build is to synergize Inquisitor better than what I have seen mechanic do thus far. The problem with mechanic and DWS is maintaining SA to contribute to the DPS and it requires too much tactic/investment to do so on such a build. I do not see diplomacy working like it should (at least the stance) when in a party. So I decided to build something that more heavily invests into base damage and ranged power....hence the Kensai Inquisitor.

New Build
12/6/2 Fighter/Rogue/Artificer
True Neutral Gnome


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Fighter. . . . 16. Rogue
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Fighter. . . . 12. Fighter. . . . 17. Fighter
3. Fighter. . . . .8. Artificer . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Fighter
4. Artificer . . . 9. Fighter . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
5. Fighter. . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Fighter . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .6. . . .+8. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 16. . . .+8. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . .+8. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . .+8. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . R .F .F .A. F. R .F .A. F. R .F .F .R. F. F. R .F .F .F .R
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5. 6 .7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4 . . . .3. . .2. . .2. . .2. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 1. 3 .23
Open Lo . 4 . . . .1. . .4. . .2. . .2. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
Search. . 4 . . . . . . .4. . .2. . .2. . . . 4 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
Spot. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .8. . . . 4 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
Diplo . . 4 .½ .1½. . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 .1 . . 1. . .3. 1. 1. 1. 1 .23
Balance . 4 .1 .1 . . . . . ½. . .1 . . 2. 4. . .3½ 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1. 23
UMD . . . 4 . . . . . . .5. . .2. . .2. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 2. 2 .23
Jump. . . 1 .4 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . 22
Concent . . . . . .7. . . . . .4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
Heal. . . 2 .½ .½ . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . . . . . . . .3 . . 1. ½. ½. . .11
Move Si . 4 . . ½. . .½ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. . .1 .3 . . . .10
Listen. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Bluff . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Hide. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Perform . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .52 .8 .8 11 .9 15 .9 12 10 16 10 11 17 11 11 18 12 12 12 19


Feats

.1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.2 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.3 Fighter: Precise Shot
.6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
.7 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
.9. . . . : Precision
11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Dodge
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
17 Fighter: Mobility
18. . . . : Shot on the Run
19 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Conjure Bolts (4), Enchant Weapons (4), Enchant Armor (8)

Enhancements (81+14 of 80+14 AP) Errors

Inquisitive (41 AP) Inquisitive, Hit the Streets, Mind Like Iron, True Seeing, Undaunted, Master Inquisitive Dual Shooter, Eye for Accuracy I, Law on your Side
Crossbow Adept, Observation, Improved Law
Crossbow Adept, Ask Questions First, Improved Observation, Intelligence
Crossbow Adept, Shoot Later, Martial Inquisition, Greater Law, Intelligence
No Holds Barred, Arresting Assault, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Jaded, Diplomatic Immunity
Kensei (26 AP) Kensei Focus: Crossbows, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization
Weapon Group Specialization
Critical Mastery III, Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Shot III
Weapon Group Specialization, Strike at the Heart
Gnome (15 AP) Gnomish Perserverance, Intelligence, Gnomish Perserverance II, Intelligence II, Retain Scroll Essence Wand and Scroll Mastery III, Gnomish Weapon Training
Gnomish Weapon Training
Nimble Reaction I, Gnomish Weapon Training
Harper Agent (13 AP) Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought Legendary Tactics II, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Constitution
Critical Damage III, Constitution
Constitution
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer
Twists of Fate (36 fate points) Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)


This is a build I do plan to do soon, however is still just theory at this point. Playing kensai many times before in the past, I think it will perfrom as intended however and I am excited to try it.

*do not pay attention to alignment...no restrictions and I personally will probably go lawful neutral or true neutral.
**I understand the competence bonuses from kensai and inquisitor will not stack for L or Hxbow, however if you prefer to switch to GXbow for NHB, the inquisitor version will not work. For me it was more a means to better stuff in the Kensai Tree.

Garix
06-25-2019, 07:23 AM
Why start with dex so high?

Dropping it to 14 wouldn't hurt you, with the tome you've listed you'll still qualify for Combat Archery (could drop to 13 but doesn't really get you anything in return). A strength of 6 (even with tomes and items) at low level is going to be painful. The amount of mobs spamming Ray of Enfeeblement could leave you in a precarious position.

Those extra 4 points from dex may just save you a lot of swearing :)

cru121
06-25-2019, 07:28 AM
I did the math of a feat-heavy kensai inquisitive, and I was not impressed.

If you take full weapon specialization line and shot on the run, you gain from the feats:
+6 to hit (+2 static and +4 while moving)
+4 damage
+11 ranged power

Kensai enhancements grant iirc +4 to hit, +10 damage, that's kinda nice. Opportunity Attack is melee only unless I am missing something

jskinner937
06-25-2019, 08:47 AM
Why start with dex so high?

Dropping it to 14 wouldn't hurt you, with the tome you've listed you'll still qualify for Combat Archery (could drop to 13 but doesn't really get you anything in return). A strength of 6 (even with tomes and items) at low level is going to be painful. The amount of mobs spamming Ray of Enfeeblement could leave you in a precarious position.

Those extra 4 points from dex may just save you a lot of swearing :)

I am racial completionist and never had any problems with starting at a low strength. Get hit by a ray and I have enough left to drink a restore potion if needed. Str becomes useless at end game for my almost uber completionist honestly with no benefit whatsoever since swim will be fine and jump maxed anyways. Dex of 16 is not the most useful stat, but taking con to 17 in lieu is not much use either. I tend to prefer the +2 AC, Rogue Skills vs going 13 and only +1 vs 14. As a side effect, it is my to hit until I can afford Harper enhancements and can qualify to pick up some feats earlier. More of a personal preference. If I were to take DEX to 14, I might pump WIS up to 12 as this would net +2 Will saves, +2 Heal & Spot (Useful for auto detect).

Garix
06-25-2019, 09:23 AM
I am racial completionist and never had any problems with starting at a low strength. Get hit by a ray and I have enough left to drink a restore potion if needed. Str becomes useless at end game for my almost uber completionist honestly with no benefit whatsoever since swim will be fine and jump maxed anyways. Dex of 16 is not the most useful stat, but taking con to 17 in lieu is not much use either. I tend to prefer the +2 AC, Rogue Skills vs going 13 and only +1 vs 14. As a side effect, it is my to hit until I can afford Harper enhancements and can qualify to pick up some feats earlier. More of a personal preference. If I were to take DEX to 14, I might pump WIS up to 12 as this would net +2 Will saves, +2 Heal & Spot (Useful for auto detect).

Fair enough :)

jskinner937
06-25-2019, 09:42 AM
I did the math of a feat-heavy kensai inquisitive, and I was not impressed.

If you take full weapon specialization line and shot on the run, you gain from the feats:
+6 to hit (+2 static and +4 while moving)
+4 damage
+11 ranged power

Kensai enhancements grant iirc +4 to hit, +10 damage, that's kinda nice. Opportunity Attack is melee only unless I am missing something

Yes in addition you have an extra 5% dodge (although you might already be at cap).

You might be right about opportunity attack.

But Kensai gives you so much more than you list. I think that's the hardest thing to understand about Kensai is all the addys and stacking stuff from the cores.

From the 4 cores I gain:
4% doubleshot
+1 to hit
+4 to hit/dmg from spiritual bond (not hard to get this to max and maintain)
+4 to hit/dmg from Power Surge for 5min total in between shrines (60 sec/5 times per rest)

Then other mentions
Improve Destruction stacks to 15 (-15% AC and -15% Fort debuff on hit)
+3 Stacking Seeker (would swap this in for Opportunity Attack)
+3 Action Boosts (although could gain from Arty Tree as well)
Pretty good attack with Shattering Shot
And I am swapping Ascetic Training I for Imp Dodge for an extra 1% Dodge Cap and MDB. (Since likely I would be over cap for both)

So over 12R Mech Inquisitor you lose:

7d6 Sneak Attack Die (24.5 dmg when eligible....essentially useless when soloing and semi-useless unless have aggro magnet)
+5 to hit
+9 to dmg
20m PBS and SA range
Improved Evasion
Improved Uncanny Dodge
*no other worthwhile mentions to survivability or offense

But gain of depending on split of rogue (assuming 12R/6F/2x)
+2 BAB (+2 to hit and +2% attack speed *honestly not sure how this affect xbows anymore after U25)
+24 HPs
+11 to hit (-4 static)
+14 damage
+11 Range Power (nets another 11 damage on base and extra 11% damage to law dice and rune arm imbues)
4% doubleshot
+8 to hit/dmg situationally from Power Surge (5min/rest) and Spiritual Bond (recharges easily)
Improve Destruction stacks to 15 (-15% AC and -15% Fort debuff on hit)
+3 Stacking Seeker
+3 Action Boosts
Pretty good attack with Shattering Shot
+1% Dodge Cap and Max Dex Bonus

Personally I feel as though Kensai wins and even though +8 damage is situational, it can be maintained pretty easily (at least half of it). You lose 24.5 SA damage (situational) from going 12R vs 6R and heavily investing in Mech tree vs Kensai, but gain 16 damage overall (non situational) +11% bonus damage to law dice and rune arm imbues (and other extra proc damage). I think this is enough to win by itself. But then throw in the +4 doubleshot, full time improved destruction, +3 seeker and +8 situational damage (power surge and spiritual bond), +8 to hit (including +2BAB) and adding a pretty good extra +3W attack with -15% fort debuff. Also with 3 more ABs, you can keep NHB up longer than as a heavily invested mech can (50% longer heroic (6 vs 9 charges) and 25% longer epic (12 vs 9 charges). That's where it starts becoming a no brainer. And if someone can verify that BAB affects xBow attack/reload speed, then that would be another good benefit.

Edit...If anything I understated the 16 damage overall since I just considered 1 RP as 1 extra damage. My experience at end game is 1 RP typically will equate to 1.5 damage or more. So this really should be +22.5 damage+ vs +16 damage.

Hobgoblin
06-25-2019, 10:04 AM
also it doesnt matter for the op - but for anyone copying his build....... it makes it much easier to get combat archery

jskinner937
06-25-2019, 10:35 AM
also it doesnt matter for the op - but for anyone copying his build....... it makes it much easier to get combat archery

Yes good point. You will want to shoot for DEX 19 for Imp Precise Shot at least by level 18. As level 19 fighter feat will be the only opportunity to take Greater Weapon Specialization. But most will try to take IPS sooner anyways. And 21 DEX is required for Combat Archery. So if you do not have +5 tomes or better, you will certainly want to start at 16 DEX in that case. And if you do not have +5 tomes, you will have to take some level ups in DEX to get there or drop INT a few points at roll screen.

Also since Hobgoblin brought it up, this is built as a racial completionist (+12 RAP +2 RAP tome = 14 free RAP) and has an extra UAP tome, but not much would need to be changed to build as something without all the bonuses. Drop the 1 extra point I had allocated in Gnome and spend whatever AP you have available in Gnome and you will not exclude yourself from anything else. And if you have another race you want to use, I think any race is fine although I doubt I would ever build as a H-Orc. And I would have a slightly different version I would build for WF, BF (heavier investment in RAP for Weapon Attachment and Reconstruct SLA, Aasimar or Aasimar Scourge (Falconry in lieu of Harper).

unbongwah
06-25-2019, 10:37 AM
Why so many rogue levels when you take no rogue Enhancements? I thought it would be for the Mechanic cores but you didn't even take them.

Pretty sure Opportunity Attack is melee-only, but whatever - it's only 2 APs either way.

jskinner937
06-25-2019, 11:36 AM
Why so many rogue levels when you take no rogue Enhancements? I thought it would be for the Mechanic cores but you didn't even take them.

Pretty sure Opportunity Attack is melee-only, but whatever - it's only 2 APs either way.

Opportunity attack has been removed on updated build after someone else pointed out.

Fair question on the rogue levels. I weighed in these pros for class granted feats...evasion, trapping, skill points to make trapping viable, 3d6 sneak attack and uncanny dodge. If I were to replace the 6 rogues levels with something else....

Fighter grants me 3 extra feats (completionist, superior weapon focus and ????Toughness????), a few extra HPs, +2 BAB and lose everything above.

Going 8 arty grants me 2 extra feats (completionist and ????Toughness????) no option for Sup WF because it takes 16F. Gain access to level 2/3 spells. I can only think of Adamantine weapons being a benefit. Also gain a few extra SP. Lose everything above except trapping skills but skill points stretched thin and likely would have to sacrifice other skills to make work.

Otherwise I consider Ranger 6 (probably the best alternative in my opinion), which gives me favored enemy x2, 2 feats (completionist and ???Toughness???), Rams Might, a few more HPs, +2 BAB, a few more SP and Diehard. I also gain access to 1st core in DWS for 1AP that I can shuffle easily to gain back +1 SA die and additionally gain +10 positive SP and 5m to PBS and SA range.

Any other options that 6 levels of rogue would be good to trade off without giving up Kensei tree? I simply looked at the benefits that just taking levels in a specific class would give without sacrificing point in Kensai. Or I would consider trading some points in Kensai for another enhancement if I seen the benefit outweighed the cons...I just do not see it for the purpose of this build.

jskinner937
06-25-2019, 12:14 PM
Here is a Bladeforged version which I will actually try after the fleshy version. It might be superior TBH because you pick up .5W weapon damage, Inherent Adamantine Weapons, Reconstruct SLA with Endless Faith, Some extra survivability and Power of the Forge AB over Kensai Power Surge (much better but is now an AB so shares cooldown with NHB). You could always swap these around and pick up an extra AP to spend elsewhere too. But I sort of like the them of a LoB xBow and Power of the Forge sort of fits that. I think the only negative to consider is that compared to the fleshy, you are giving up -8 to hit. I still think that this will not be a problem although.


*Keep in mind this build does require a +1 Lesser Heart to remove the first paladin level and replace with rogue.

The Lord of the Bolts

Lord of the Bolts
12/6/2 Fighter/Rogue/Artificer
Lawful Good Bladeforged


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Fighter . . . .11. Fighter . . . .16. Artificer
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Fighter . . . .17. Fighter
3. Fighter. . . . .8. Fighter. . . . 13. Rogue . . . . .18. Artificer
4. Rogue . . . . . 9. Fighter . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
5. Fighter. . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Fighter . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+8. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 18. . . .+8. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .+8. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . .+8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . R .F .F .R. F. F. R .F .F .R. F. F. R .F .F .A. F. A .F .R
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5. 6. 7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Repair. . 4 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 . . 2. . .2 .1. 23
Disable . 4 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . .2. . .2. 23
Open Lo . 4 . . . .2. . . . 2 . . . .2. . . . 2 . . . .2. . .2. . .7. 23
Search. . 4 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . .2. . .2. 23
Spot. . . 4 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . .2. . .2. 23
Diplo . . 4 .1 .1 . . . .2 . . ½. 2½ 1. ½. 2½ . .2 .1 . . 2. . .2 .1. 23
Balance . 4 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 . . 2. . .2. 1. 1. . .2 . . 2. 1 .23
UMD . . . 4 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .2. . .3. . .2. 23
Jump. . . 4 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 . . 1. . . . . .19
Hide. . . 4 .½ .½ . . . . . . . . . . . . .1½. . . .2 . . . .1. ½. . .10
Bluff . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Perform . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .48 .7 .7 14 .8 .8 14 .9 .9 15 .9 10 16 10 10 13 11 13 11 18


Feats

.1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.2 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.3 Fighter: Precise Shot
.6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
.6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
.9 Fighter: Precision
12. . . . : Dodge
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
15 Fighter: Mobility
18. . . . : Shot on the Run
19 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Repair
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Holy Strike
30 Epic . : Construct Exemplar
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Conjure Bolts (16), Enchant Weapons (16), Enchant Armor (18)

Enhancements (81+14 of 80+14 AP) Errors

Inquisitive (41 AP) Inquisitive, Hit the Streets, Mind Like Iron, True Seeing, Undaunted, Master Inquisitive Dual Shooter, Eye for Accuracy I, Law on your Side
Crossbow Adept, Observation, Improved Law
Crossbow Adept, Ask Questions First, Improved Observation, Intelligence
Crossbow Adept, Shoot Later, Martial Inquisition, Greater Law, Intelligence
No Holds Barred, Arresting Assault, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Jaded, Diplomatic Immunity
Kensei (24 AP) Kensei Focus: Crossbows, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization
Weapon Group Specialization
Critical Mastery II, Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Shot III
Weapon Group Specialization, Strike at the Heart
Bladeforged (18 AP) Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution, Improved Fortification II, Warforged Constitution II, Error Mechanist III
Communion of Scribing III
(none)
Communion of Handling, Weapon Attachment, Power of the Forge
Harper Agent (12 AP) Agent of Good I, Intelligence Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought Legendary Tactics II, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Constitution
Critical Damage III, Constitution
Constitution
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer
Twists of Fate (36 fate points) Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)

Net loss/gain over Gnome is:
gain +1 seeker
+4 Constitution (net 40 HPS and +2 Fort Save)
Immunity to Hold, Sleep, Energy Drain, Exausted, Nauseated, Paralyzed
75% inherent fortification
Reconstruct SLA with 40% Repair Amp and Endless Faith keeps SP pool around to use. Pretty nice self heal but lose ability for others to heal you unless they reconstruct.
+5 dmg from .5W on HXbow + additional 5 dmg (assuming 5W) from using HXbow over LXbow
Inherent Adamantine Weapons
***not including Power of the Forge vs Kensai Power Surge because either could be taken
-4 Intelligence (-2 to hit and damage)
-5 UMD
Loss of Wand & Scroll Mastery (self heal better with the reconstruct SLA although) and 15% chance not to consume the scroll
-4% dodge
-1% dodge cap and MDB
-4 to hit and dmg with LXbow (more than made up for above even with the loss of 4 intelligence and not limited to LXbow)
-2 to hit and dmg evil (sacrifice from Harper) *+10 damage from Weapon Attachment and using HXbow still outweighs the overall loss of -8 damage but overall net is +2 dmg and -8 to hit
Loss of cocoon (again reconstruct SLA better for self heal)
-1% doubleshot and -1 to hit and dmg from spiritual bond (loss from 4th core kensai)

Bunker
06-25-2019, 12:54 PM
Here is a Bladeforged version which I will actually try after the fleshy version. It might be superior TBH because you pick up .5W weapon damage, Inherent Adamantine Weapons, Reconstruct SLA with Endless Faith, Some extra survivability and Power of the Forge AB over Kensai Power Surge (much better but is now an AB so shares cooldown with NHB). You could always swap these around and pick up an extra AP to spend elsewhere too. But I sort of like the them of a LoB xBow and Power of the Forge sort of fits that.


*Keep in mind this build does require a +1 Lesser Heart to remove the first paladin level and replace with rogue.

The Lord of the Xbow

Kensai Inquisitor
12/6/2 Fighter/Rogue/Artificer
True Neutral Bladeforged


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Fighter. . . . 16. Rogue
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Fighter. . . . 12. Fighter. . . . 17. Fighter
3. Fighter. . . . .8. Artificer . . .13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Fighter
4. Artificer . . . 9. Fighter . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
5. Fighter. . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Fighter . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+8. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 18. . . .+8. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .+8. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . .+8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . R .F .F .A. F. R .F .A. F. R .F .F .R. F. F. R .F .F .F .R
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5. 6 .7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4 . . . .3. . . . . .4. . .2. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
Open Lo . 4 . . . . . . . . . .3. . .6. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
Search. . 4 . . . . . . .5. . . . . .4. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
Spot. . . 4 . . . . . . .5. . . . . .3. . . . 4 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
Repair. . . .2 .4 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . 22
Diplo . . 4 . . 1. . .2 . . 2. . .2½. . 2½ 1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . 22
Jump. . . . .5 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . 22
Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . 1. 3. . .1½ 3½ 3 . . 19
UMD . . . 4 . . . . . . .4. . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . .5. . . . . .2. 18
Concent . . . . . .7. . . . . .4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
Listen. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Bluff . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Hide. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Move Si . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Perform . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Swim. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .48 .7 .7 10 .8 14 .8 11 .9 15 .9 10 16 10 10 17 11 11 11 18


Feats

.1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.2 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.3 Fighter: Precise Shot
.6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
.7 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
.9. . . . : Precision
11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Dodge
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
17 Fighter: Mobility
18. . . . : Shot on the Run
19 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic . : Mithral Body
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Conjure Bolts (4), Enchant Weapons (4), Enchant Armor (8)

Enhancements (81+14 of 80+14 AP) Errors

Inquisitive (41 AP) Inquisitive, Hit the Streets, Mind Like Iron, True Seeing, Undaunted, Master Inquisitive Dual Shooter, Eye for Accuracy I, Law on your Side
Crossbow Adept, Observation, Improved Law
Crossbow Adept, Ask Questions First, Improved Observation, Intelligence
Crossbow Adept, Shoot Later, Martial Inquisition, Greater Law, Intelligence
No Holds Barred, Arresting Assault, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Jaded, Diplomatic Immunity
Kensei (24 AP) Kensei Focus: Crossbows, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization
Weapon Group Specialization
Critical Mastery II, Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Shot III
Weapon Group Specialization, Strike at the Heart
Bladeforged (18 AP) Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution, Improved Fortification II, Warforged Constitution II Mechanist III
Communion of Scribing III
(none)
Communion of Handling, Weapon Attachment, Power of the Forge
Harper Agent (12 AP) Agent of Good I, Intelligence Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought Legendary Tactics II, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Constitution
Critical Damage III, Constitution
Constitution
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer
Twists of Fate (36 fate points) Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)

Net loss/gain over Gnome is:
gain +1 seeker
+4 Constitution (net 40 HPS and +2 Fort Save)
Immunity to Hold, Sleep, Energy Drain, Exausted, Nauseated, Paralyzed
75% inherent fortification
Reconstruct SLA with 40% Repair Amp and Endless Faith keeps SP pool around to use. Pretty nice self heal but lose ability for others to heal you unless they reconstruct.
+5 dmg from .5W on HXbow + additional 5 dmg (assuming 5W) from using HXbow over LXbow
Inherent Adamantine Weapons
***not including Power of the Forge vs Kensai Power Surge because either could be taken
-4 Intelligence (-2 to hit and damage)
-5 UMD
Loss of Wand & Scroll Mastery (self heal better with the reconstruct SLA although) and 15% chance not to consume the scroll
-4% dodge
-1% dodge cap and MDB
-4 to hit and dmg with LXbow (more than made up for above even with the loss of 4 intelligence and not limited to LXbow)
Loss of cocoon (again reconstruct SLA better for self heal)


Due to the bladeforge and first level being pally, you cannot have 3 classes till after level 15. Basically you would have to hold off taking artificer till level 16 for this to work. That is if you want to take rogue at level 1 and use only a +1 heart of wood.

Also, a minor note of if you want to save 500tp, keep the alignment Lawfulgood.

jskinner937
06-25-2019, 02:46 PM
Due to the bladeforge and first level being pally, you cannot have 3 classes till after level 15. Basically you would have to hold off taking artificer till level 16 for this to work. That is if you want to take rogue at level 1 and use only a +1 heart of wood.

Also, a minor note of if you want to save 500tp, keep the alignment Lawfulgood.

Very good points Bunks. I will probably not switch alignment. And I would have been cursing after I realized that I need to take the two artificer levels after 15. I will redo on the above post based on your insight. Thanks.

droid327
06-26-2019, 01:08 PM
I think that, while the idea is perfectly workable, there's four basic problems with the idea that make it less than optimal compared to the alternatives...

1. You're undervaluing SA damage, even while solo. Sniper Shot gives you 66% uptime on Sneak. You can get even more if you mixed in an Improved Deception item like the Sharn ring. That also lets you take advantage of sizeable item-based bonuses to Sneak damage, which ends up effectively becoming additional stacking Deadly.

2. Kensei is largely based around crits - its got crit bonuses in the cores and the T5s, and several enhancements meant to break fort. However, until there are more crossbows with improved crit profiles, I dont think a crit-focused build is as rewarding as it is with other weapon types. Epic Ratcatcher, or something like that, would make this build way more effective.

3. Along the same lines, Inquis already have access to a LOT of fort reduction even without relying on Kensei enhancements. 25% Observation, 25% Precision, 10% Opportunist if you go Mechanic Inqui, 10% DWS core if you go Ranger Inqui, 33-35% from gear, Piercing Clarity (10%) or Grim Precision twist (15%), 5% guild, 10-20% filigrees, 15% Deconstructor that's non-stacking with Strike at the Heart. That can easily get you to where nearly everything is sneakable and crittable even without needing to hit it with a Shattering Shot.

4. Both Kensei and Inqui are heavily top-loaded in their T5s. That means if you're T5ing Inqui, you're losing out on a lot of the point of running Kensei, and that's your primary class. Pairing Inqui with a second tree that offers more just as a T4 (DWS, Mech, BE, heck even War Soul) is a more synergistic match. It seems like you're devoting the central identity of your build to a smattering of passive +damage/doubleshot/RP bonuses. Killer in DWS alone gives you a 20% bonus to Doubleshot, and that's pretty easy to keep maxed out in practical play (except maybe on raid bosses) and could conceivably outweigh all the passives from Kensei combined.

Selvera
06-26-2019, 04:14 PM
not saying I heavily theorycrafted it; but I'm currently working through a kensai inquisitor myself; planned as my 3rd human life just 1-20; and it's working pretty well (solo r3 sharn with minor difficulty at level; beat down r7 damsel in I dream of Jeets in what felt like a minute). Just going pure fighter; although perhaps rogue would have been worthwhile for a couple levels.
For low levels I picked up a vorpal repeating crossbow and used it until about level 8. Didn't care enough to swap out the feat, but it would be a good idea of doing an endgame build.

Heavy armor + fighter heavy armor feats (just the higher prr/mrr ones; not the lower ones)
Rush Improved Precise shot and Improved critical asap; like usual. (With a bab class level you can get this at 11; otherwise it's at 12)
Take some thrower feats at higher levels just to cash in 2 RP per feat mostly; if doing a endgame build you can swap these out for dodge feat chain for 1 RP per feat; but gaining MDB = dodge cap.

Don't forget to use KTA when you're in power surge to make it +6 damage instead of +4; and that extra +2 damage lasts for 2 minutes instead of 1.
One cut would have been nice if I could get it; but with the AP spread (which looks pretty similar to yours excluding racial); not enough points in Kensai to get One Cut until you're level 20 (at which point I've TR'd).

I'm sitting on about 1.1k HP and 120 PRR at level 18 here; with damage numbers like 2d10+78 before activating power surge or know the angles; it feels sort of like doing a melee build except that you can kill everything in the room while running backwards.

jskinner937
06-26-2019, 06:11 PM
I think that, while the idea is perfectly workable, there's four basic problems with the idea that make it less than optimal compared to the alternatives...

1. You're undervaluing SA damage, even while solo. Sniper Shot gives you 66% uptime on Sneak. You can get even more if you mixed in an Improved Deception item like the Sharn ring. That also lets you take advantage of sizeable item-based bonuses to Sneak damage, which ends up effectively becoming additional stacking Deadly.

2. Kensei is largely based around crits - its got crit bonuses in the cores and the T5s, and several enhancements meant to break fort. However, until there are more crossbows with improved crit profiles, I dont think a crit-focused build is as rewarding as it is with other weapon types. Epic Ratcatcher, or something like that, would make this build way more effective.

3. Along the same lines, Inquis already have access to a LOT of fort reduction even without relying on Kensei enhancements. 25% Observation, 25% Precision, 10% Opportunist if you go Mechanic Inqui, 10% DWS core if you go Ranger Inqui, 33-35% from gear, Piercing Clarity (10%) or Grim Precision twist (15%), 5% guild, 10-20% filigrees, 15% Deconstructor that's non-stacking with Strike at the Heart. That can easily get you to where nearly everything is sneakable and crittable even without needing to hit it with a Shattering Shot.

4. Both Kensei and Inqui are heavily top-loaded in their T5s. That means if you're T5ing Inqui, you're losing out on a lot of the point of running Kensei, and that's your primary class. Pairing Inqui with a second tree that offers more just as a T4 (DWS, Mech, BE, heck even War Soul) is a more synergistic match. It seems like you're devoting the central identity of your build to a smattering of passive +damage/doubleshot/RP bonuses. Killer in DWS alone gives you a 20% bonus to Doubleshot, and that's pretty easy to keep maxed out in practical play (except maybe on raid bosses) and could conceivably outweigh all the passives from Kensei combined.

Very well detailed feedback and certainly insightful. However I did not abandon SA completely, I am trading 7d6 for some some static damage. and I do plan to use deception/improved deception items for sure. But these give bonuses to anybody and if you qualify for sneak attack at all then it improves to 1.5 from what i understand.

I tried to come up with a good split to maximize SA dmg before and I think the most I could do combining Mech/DWS, assuming that 41 points going inquisitor and 8 points going Harper which means you must put 13 points into mech for int to damage and you must take 6 levels of ranger to get Sniper Shot. So your max SA split on an inquisitor is 13R/6Ra/1x and would net you 13 SA die. I still built with 3 SA die just from the 6 levels of rogue, so my net loss is 10d6 or 35 over a fully maxed build. I know SA scale with RP and helpless but those would actually reduce the numbers since RP scales everything and I will have higher base damage anyways. And unless I am not understanding deception, SA+ damage correctly, this is just a flat bonus that applies at 1.5x even if you qualify for SA, whichever i do (qualify is defined as you can inherently SA and not necessarily meet all the requirements such as range). Although in very high reapers SA die changes much more because it scales differently.

And I have tried to build with killer but it is so point intensive. I would be interested to see how someone else built one on an inquisitor. But 23 points puts you into the same position as I am with this build where you more or less neglect the other trees entirely. Hmmm.

Swimms
06-27-2019, 08:48 AM
Why so many rogue levels when you take no rogue Enhancements? I thought it would be for the Mechanic cores but you didn't even take them.

Pretty sure Opportunity Attack is melee-only, but whatever - it's only 2 APs either way.

With 11 AP minimum to get mech core 3 targeting sights (int to damage) you can drop down to 6 AP in Harper to get 1 point in KtA (assuming you are OK with a recasting KtA all the time) it might be worth freeing up the necessary 5 AP to take dip into mech a bit

Also, this is a personal preference but with so many fighter levels I would want to make sure I had the BAB to take IPS at 12, instead of 15. Especially if it is a heroic build.

droid327
06-27-2019, 08:53 AM
And I have tried to build with killer but it is so point intensive. I would be interested to see how someone else built one on an inquisitor. But 23 points puts you into the same position as I am with this build where you more or less neglect the other trees entirely. Hmmm.

Right now I'm running a 9 Rgr/9 Arti/2 Fig. Its not a split I've ever seen anyone else talk about :) But its not meant to be max DPS, nor is it meant to be optimized for sitting at cap...its an HTR/ETR/ITR build, balanced for solo. 9 Rgr for autogrants, Cures, and Evasion. 9 Arti for autogrants, runearm, and Armor of Speed, which is a huge boon when doing ETRs since its essentially Blinding Speed at L20. 2 Fig for moar feats, and also for PDK ITR. Traps, INT for everything, 41 Inqui 12 Harper 27 DWS. Feats are: everything. Literally everything. Its the most feat-intensive build I've ever put together :D

Swimms
06-27-2019, 09:59 AM
Right now I'm running a 9 Rgr/9 Arti/2 Fig. Its not a split I've ever seen anyone else talk about :) But its not meant to be max DPS, nor is it meant to be optimized for sitting at cap...its an HTR/ETR/ITR build, balanced for solo. 9 Rgr for autogrants, Cures, and Evasion. 9 Arti for autogrants, runearm, and Armor of Speed, which is a huge boon when doing ETRs since its essentially Blinding Speed at L20. 2 Fig for moar feats, and also for PDK ITR. Traps, INT for everything, 41 Inqui 12 Harper 27 DWS. Feats are: everything. Literally everything. Its the most feat-intensive build I've ever put together :D

This sounds very similar to the build in my signature specifically the AP split, I have a variation of the build near cap now and the standing doubleshot with 3x killer from DWS is 97.3%. Are you able to get the BAB with that split to take IPS by 12?

jskinner937
06-27-2019, 10:44 AM
With 11 AP minimum to get mech core 3 targeting sights (int to damage) you can drop down to 6 AP in Harper to get 1 point in KtA (assuming you are OK with a recasting KtA all the time) it might be worth freeing up the necessary 5 AP to take dip into mech a bit

Also, this is a personal preference but with so many fighter levels I would want to make sure I had the BAB to take IPS at 12, instead of 15. Especially if it is a heroic build.

IPS at 12 was not a goal of mine since I only have Iconic Lives left, but certainly could be rearranged.

If you are going to take 11AP in Mech to get Int to Dmg, I guess I assumed you would grab the available 2AP Xbox in tier 3 for a total of 13AP in mech. My preference is that once you spend the 13AP in mech, you are wasting the next 7 points to get to tier 4 to grab fletching (only for the 10RP) and the tier 4 xbow feat plus the 4th core. Although now you are at a 26 spend. And if you pick up the core, you must take 12 levels of rogue. These are the considerations of going inquisitor and especially those that rely on int to hit/dmg.

Personally I would never give up the 2 extra AP in Harper regardless of recasting every 30 sec, because I doubt I would be able to afford the 45sp per cast every 30 seconds during a quest.

Swimms
06-27-2019, 11:16 AM
Personally I would never give up the 2 extra AP in Harper regardless of recasting every 30 sec, because I doubt I would be able to afford the 45sp per cast every 30 seconds during a quest.

It's not bad if you have the spell points from past lives and run in reaper where you can "accidentally" snake the occasional SP orb. Easy enough to blame lag when trying to pick up remnants :)

droid327
06-27-2019, 04:53 PM
This sounds very similar to the build in my signature specifically the AP split, I have a variation of the build near cap now and the standing doubleshot with 3x killer from DWS is 97.3%. Are you able to get the BAB with that split to take IPS by 12?

I ran it as iconic so I don't quite remember without looking it up - but I think at 12 it's 2 fig 2 art 8 rgr (take fighter at 12 for the bonus feat for ips) so that hits 11 bab for ips yeah

jskinner937
06-27-2019, 05:56 PM
It's not bad if you have the spell points from past lives and run in reaper where you can "accidentally" snake the occasional SP orb. Easy enough to blame lag when trying to pick up remnants :)

I am guilty of that as well.

Tilomere
06-29-2019, 12:49 PM
0% move speed bonus :(

jskinner937
06-29-2019, 01:46 PM
0% move speed bonus :(

Tilo,

I feel ya. I love the bonus movement to speed as well. But I have noticed in Sharn most of those mobs chase you down anyways and it becomes more of a tactic to out maneuver rather than sheer run speed. None-the-less it is a huge sacrifice still. There is the ability to pick up 10% by giving up arty (lose rune arm, enchant weaps, dog companion, some sp and a feat) and go 12F/7R/1Barb. Then from there you could drop agent of good II and the extra point in gnome and grab another 7% from acrobat tree for a total of 47% vs 30% bonus to base run speed as in the original build. . It wouldn’t be a build changer by any means but would certainly improve your base speed by 17% and put close to monk. I chose to go a different path on this build.

Right now I am coming off 15R/4A/1Barb with 56% bonus to base run speed and that is already a hard life to follow up.

Tilomere
06-29-2019, 03:32 PM
Right now I am coming off 15R/4A/1Barb with 56% bonus to base run speed and that is already a hard life to follow up.

SDK 17 R/2A/1Barb, with racial wings...

If you don't like mechanic as a secondary tree you could just use assassin for killer. I have a feeling you are going to be disappointed how slow you level due to lacking move speed.

Bunker
06-29-2019, 04:39 PM
SDK 17 R/2A/1Barb, with racial wings...

If you don't like mechanic as a secondary tree you could just use assassin for killer. I have a feeling you are going to be disappointed how slow you level due to lacking move speed.

I agree for heroic leveling, I and maybe even epic, it is nice to move fast. Some players however choose to kill monsters faster rather than run faster. 1 level of barbarian does absolutely nothing for increased dps on a ranged build. Nothing at all.

As for the enhancement killer, you have to be able to kill stuff for it to work.

C-Dog
06-29-2019, 06:01 PM
1 level of barbarian does absolutely nothing for increased dps on a ranged build. Nothing at all...
Except that it allows a character to run backwards faster, often exactly as fast as some of the slower enemies (oozes, undead, etc) - which means they die instead of getting close enough to kill you. Ranged DPS drops dramatically when you die. ;)

But more to the point, it's more a playstyle thing. Some use/need that little extra speed more than others.

jskinner937
06-29-2019, 08:27 PM
SDK 17 R/2A/1Barb, with racial wings...

If you don't like mechanic as a secondary tree you could just use assassin for killer. I have a feeling you are going to be disappointed how slow you level due to lacking move speed.

As I mentioned earlier, I have only iconic lives left.