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View Full Version : Inquisitive Weapons - I'm Missing Something?



Clemeit
04-11-2019, 12:46 PM
tl;dr Only two new light/heavy crossbows after debuting a fighting style that uses them exclusively?

I just got around to trying the new Inquisitive Tree. I like the dual-wielding crossbows, but I'm seriously struggling with finding any halfway decent crossbow to use with it. While there are plenty of excellent Great Crossbows (Leverage + Epic, Divine Artillery + Epic, Volley), and Repeating Crossbows (Fatal Flaw + Epic, Silver Slinger + Epic, Legendary Heavy Boltslinger), there really aren't any Light/Heavy non-repeating Crossbows. There was The Diplomancer + Epic from the Anniversary for every 5th level, but that's already over - tough luck to anyone who didn't farm for it. There's the Barovian Crossbows, but they are pretty terrible for their level. Then there's Thunderforged for 22-26 (+28 if you have the mats for it).

I figure, well if they're going to release a tree like Inquisitive then they're obviously going to give us some really solid and varied choices of weapons to use with it when Sharn debuts. But instead (and this is assuming I'm not missing something which I totally hope I am!) we got one named Light Crossbow for both level 15 and 29 (I haven't had the opportunity to check on Lamannia, so I don't know how good/bad it is) and one named Heavy Crossbow (from the raid, so I assume it's level 29 only).

If that's the case, and there are only two new crossbows for Inquisitive to use, I feel disappointed. But perhaps someone who has been on Lamannia and has used them could give some feedback on how good they are.

cru121
04-11-2019, 12:56 PM
There's the obscene Ratcatcher.

Barovian is actually decent.

There's Cannith Crafting.

There's random loot, keen vorpal red slot.

Sharn should probably have two heroic and three legendary xbows

Memnir
04-11-2019, 12:58 PM
While it's too late to get it now, the Anniversary event Diplomancer light crossbow is quite good with Inquisitive.

GramercyRiff
04-11-2019, 05:29 PM
I see every xbow ever made as new weapons for Inquisitive because no one has ever used a xbow ever.

Ratcatcher has a great crit profile. Go get one in Threnal. It should kill stuff fast all the way to 20.

Epic is where it's not so great from I can tell, though I could be missing something.

Bolo_Grubb
04-11-2019, 05:42 PM
I use a vorpal or the barovian crossbows.

I think the Bavorian is very good for the level. Level 10 with Silver and good and a red slot, that can be made to work on most mobs

Fedora1
04-11-2019, 06:15 PM
Well essentially every random loot crossbow in the game got doubled in power if I understand Inquisitor correctly. One is now two.

Hjarki
04-11-2019, 07:38 PM
Well essentially every random loot crossbow in the game got doubled in power if I understand Inquisitor correctly. One is now two.

It's more like one is now 1.5.

banjo174
04-11-2019, 07:44 PM
Cannith crafting...

Satyriasys
04-11-2019, 08:42 PM
There's a pretty large gap in gear right now in general. I routinely go from level 10 to the high 20s with very little upgrading. A revamp of the old seal/shard/scroll loot would substantially help close this gap.

C-Dog
04-12-2019, 01:32 AM
tl;dr Only two new light/heavy crossbows after debuting a fighting style that uses them exclusively?
Right, b/c all the old ones had been overlooked until now.

Count those in, and you've got a good mix.

Feralthyrtiaq
04-12-2019, 06:14 AM
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Swift_Demise

Doesn't look bad for the level and probably up to 12/15. I made a level 20 Diplomancer for esses and gees and figured through Cannith Crafting, Heroic GS (have plenty of mats for at least one of w/e type), TF yada yada I'd be fine should I try Inq out. Have a couple rogue lives coming up. I *might* go ranged with Inq but I enjoy melee rogue too much. Prolly do Inq on a future racial life with Arti but that'll be a while down the road.

(Actually there will be better Lt and Hvy Xbows in game by the time I get around to it)

Gabrael
04-12-2019, 12:07 PM
you can also create one with eveningstar challenges, lvl 16/20/24

Fedora1
04-12-2019, 12:11 PM
I've never made an "alchemical" weapon before, nor do I know how to do so (even the wiki confuses me lol), but I believe this would be another option?

vms4ever
04-13-2019, 12:45 PM
Greensteel still exists. I believe that is the best option for mid-heroics tomid-epic if you didn't plan ahead with diplmancer.

Jetrule
04-14-2019, 05:23 PM
They have only previewed half of the loot that Sharn will have if I recall correctly. I know there is more loot preview coming I hope there are crossbows. There were the syrianna weapons in the Sharn preview at level 15 and 29 a "easy to obtain" option like barovian/macabre/morning lord/night mother. But they will be Adamantium and construct bane and some damage procs

Bjond
05-07-2019, 11:04 PM
I'm seriously struggling with finding any halfway decent crossbow to use with it.

I'm still using Ratcatcher (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ratcatcher) at L27. It handily outperforms an ML22 Thunderforged HXbow. I don't have Diplomancer, but it only has a standard crit profile, which makes it unlikely to beat Rat until late epics. I'm hoping the L29 RL xbows will outperform Rat -- they should even with standard profile.

As far as I can tell, only Epic Storm might beat Rat pre-L29. It has Critical Threat -2 v Rat but more W, Enhance, and Procs. Rat's CT+2 is pretty huge -- adds ~DPS+30% to Rat compared to Epic Storm. Storm might as well not exist, though. It's an insanely rare drop from ADQ which needs even more rare shard & seal from ADQ2. In 13 ADQ2 runs, I've only seen 1 blue, 0 shards, 0 seals. I have one storm scroll, but don't know where I acquired it.

BTW, from what I've seen in the preview, the Sharn Xbows are uninteresting except for the one that adds 2W. Very minor gains when compared to Nightmother, which can break also break DR/evil in addition to everything Sharn breaks. The only thing that would put Sharn ahead in my mind is if there's a Sharn Quiver that adds Slashing type to ranged. Then Sharn would end up breaking more interesting DRs than Nightmother, since it doesn't need epic purifying to add bludgeon (all my chars have epic purifying, which seems to rain down like candy on me when I do that quest).

Bjond
06-06-2019, 07:39 PM
I'm hoping the L29 RL xbows will outperform Rat -- they should

Small update. When my inq/xbow char reached 29, I took her out to Impossible Demands to test Nightmother versus Ratcatcher. Night won by a very small margin -- just a couple seconds on the kill. The extra DR break and tiny vampirics further tipped the scale in favor of Nightmother. So, that's what she uses 29-30.

Finally got all the parts for epic storm (except storm itself). Last part likely has to wait on 20th ADQ run. I'd burn timers to get there if it was possible, but ADQ is bugged, timers don't work on it, and SSG hasn't shown interest in fixing it. So, in 30 days or so I'll post how Epic Storm compares to Ratcatcher.

Rat should beat dumb Epic Storm, but chatty Epic Storm should beat Rat. If not, well, I guess I farmed a very rare skin upgrade.

FuzzyDuck81
06-07-2019, 03:27 AM
With any luck there'll be another 1 or 2 new ones added in the next update, but yeah at the moment your options are pretty limited, though Ratcatcher is a beast - unfortunately, 3 elite runs on a capped toon in the past couple of weeks & still no Ratcatcher in the end list :( Barovian is a good performer though & since I'm running racial reincarnations on that particular character I've invested in a rad2 light xbow & those things are still very solid.

The ones you get from eveningstar challenge turn-ins can be another potential option if you get lucky with the effects, and if you can stand the grind the ToEE crafted ones can be good too - best bet IMO is 2 or 3 full run-throughs of part 2 with a group & everyone calls a different element mushroom if you want to make it more bearable.

GeoffWatson
06-07-2019, 05:28 AM
With any luck there'll be another 1 or 2 new ones added in the next update, but yeah at the moment your options are pretty limited, though Ratcatcher is a beast - unfortunately, 3 elite runs on a capped toon in the past couple of weeks & still no Ratcatcher in the end list :(

Do a bug report, the third list should have all of the available named items.

FuzzyDuck81
06-07-2019, 09:18 AM
Do a bug report, the third list should have all of the available named items.

that might be it then, I ran it on 3 different capped characters so I could also get the favour on them

Bunker
06-07-2019, 09:44 AM
that might be it then, I ran it on 3 different capped characters so I could also get the favour on them

Confirmed that the 3rd completion of Threnal does indeed give the player the option of EVERY named end reward. Must be completed by same character on the same life.

Other xbows: has anyone made an alchemical lately? I have a great crossbow tier 3 alchemical and am in the process of making a light crossbow. If you need a xbox from levels 20-25, I feel it is a good choice. Not sure of the value vs. time to get ratio, but nice all the same.

-Bunk

iPuffinstuff
06-07-2019, 12:13 PM
For heroics not even the ratcatcher competes with them once you hit 12. Greensteel is a weapon that most newer players shy away from but trust me if your doing tr's they are imho bis. As I asked earlier, do dual xbows proc in each hand and was rewarded by Steel that yes they do. Thats a lot of dps. At moment im specced fully in inquisitor tree with only first core in mech taken and leading kill count by almost double. Dual radiance xbows have double the chance to proc blind each shot and thats huge in heroics. Yes kill count does not mean anything since who knows if 90% of my kills were steals which with xbows thats easy to do but I have ratcatcher and I can tell you the damage is not even close to the dual radiance fire/good/fire greensteel. Ive always had a gxbow radiance greensteel, but have passed on making a heavy greensteel xbow. Now I wish id made them two lifes back.

P.s. Make sure your teammates know you are squishy and that you will be taking ALL of the aggro. At lvl 12 you get NHB and trust me, even with diplo as high as can be reached...it will do nothing to keep you alive.

Bjond
06-07-2019, 07:34 PM
Ive always had a gxbow radiance greensteel, but have passed on making a heavy greensteel xbow. Now I wish id made them two lifes back.

I suspect you have rogue as an underlying class. Without sneak attack, blindness won't do anything for your DPS. For instance, my inquisitive has v.little sneak attack (1 bard 2 art 17 ranger). Things like improved deception and blindness are still useful and desirable, but they're not quite the instant win they are for a rogue.

BTW, why no rogue? 'Cuz I didn't care enough to buy a TR+1 to get rid of the bard. And, yeah, it doesn't matter how high your diplomacy is or how much distant diversion. You will pull agro. The only things I've found that can keep stuff away in a party are coffee and/or a timmy-tank.

FuzzyDuck81
06-08-2019, 02:36 AM
I suspect you have rogue as an underlying class. Without sneak attack, blindness won't do anything for your DPS. For instance, my inquisitive has v.little sneak attack (1 bard 2 art 17 ranger). Things like improved deception and blindness are still useful and desirable, but they're not quite the instant win they are for a rogue.


I disagree.. blindness is a 50% miss chance on enemy attacks, meaning you won't take as much damage & as everyone knows, dead characters don't do DPS - also, even if you don't have sneak attack dice yourself, other party members will benefit from mobs being blind too.

There's also the very handy thing that against eyeballs, even on legendary elite (& presumably reaper? don't run reaper much), getting a blindness effect on them is an instakill - and a heroic greensteel radiance is the old style effect which only relies on you scoring a crit, it has no internal cooldown & no save :D

Having said that, I also really like ooze2 on a repeater & figure it'd be great on a regular xbow for an inquisitive too, gunking the place up with puddings is just fun & surprisingly effective crowd control.

iPuffinstuff
06-08-2019, 06:58 AM
I suspect you have rogue as an underlying class. Without sneak attack, blindness won't do anything for your DPS. For instance, my inquisitive has v.little sneak attack (1 bard 2 art 17 ranger). Things like improved deception and blindness are still useful and desirable, but they're not quite the instant win they are for a rogue.

BTW, why no rogue? 'Cuz I didn't care enough to buy a TR+1 to get rid of the bard. And, yeah, it doesn't matter how high your diplomacy is or how much distant diversion. You will pull agro. The only things I've found that can keep stuff away in a party are coffee and/or a timmy-tank.

I probably worded that wrong. I wasnt meaning radiance is the be all end all. I meant greensteel as a hole is great for inquisitor. With all the great xbows and repeaters that game out greensteel kind of lost its edge. Even so, gs was still a contender for bis. But now you have two....;). Yes weve had two before with melee but offhands never truly procced like they should. Here though we have 100% proc rate. Like another poster said, like pudding?
I was running madstone crater yesterday on r3 and a teammate asked me what was my bow. After showing him he posted a return of his own. It was also a gs heavy xbow. His was pure dps no radiance. He had 0 rogue. Im also positive the pudding greensteel has no cap or time to summon right? Unlike legendary but thats a lot of hilarity. Ive never made one but I think I will just for the fun of it.

Bjond
06-08-2019, 08:08 PM
I meant greensteel as a hole is great for inquisitor.

Greensteel a special-case. It's more than 30% lower DPS than Ratcatcher, but the extras it can provide can't be found anywhere else and they can be MUCH nicer than more DPS; eg. radiance for sneak+helpless, salt for CC, and ooze for hilarity (and it actually helps survival and dps, especially with druid PLs).

However, I'd always want to use Rat and regret every second I felt compelled to pick greensteel. For instance, got a caster doing mass-hold, sleetstorm, or a solid timmy-tank? Great! Time for a greensteel field goal and good riddance.

I really wish they'd added ANY nice regular xbows, but there are still only two improved profile regular xbows in game: Ratcatcher and Epic Storm. For raw DPS gains, profile stomps out nearly every other consideration for any build that gets it's DPS from a weapon.

It's also likely why SSG seems so wary of adding improved profile weapons near the cap; every time I look for one for a new build, the ones that turn up are VERY old. It's frustrating as a player and makes the new non-profile weapons feel like junk, but I can see why they're doing it (or rather not doing it).

iPuffinstuff
06-15-2019, 08:13 AM
With any luck there'll be another 1 or 2 new ones added in the next update, but yeah at the moment your options are pretty limited, though Ratcatcher is a beast - unfortunately, 3 elite runs on a capped toon in the past couple of weeks & still no Ratcatcher in the end list :( Barovian is a good performer though & since I'm running racial reincarnations on that particular character I've invested in a rad2 light xbow & those things are still very solid.

The ones you get from eveningstar challenge turn-ins can be another potential option if you get lucky with the effects, and if you can stand the grind the ToEE crafted ones can be good too - best bet IMO is 2 or 3 full run-throughs of part 2 with a group & everyone calls a different element mushroom if you want to make it more bearable.

I get Rat has a better chance at doing damage but for me that just is not the case. Whenever I use Rat all I get is yellow numbers. Im sure this is due to me not understanding dr but....? With the increased crit range and multiplier rat does crit more, way more but in heroics it seems the procs from barovian or greensteel more than makes up for the damage loss of crits. Am I doing something wrong? I run armor pierce and fort pass yet still I get yellow numbers. When switching to barovian xbow i get the purple bursts and as I said those extra numbers equal out or surpass ratcatchers damage output in heroics. Maybe they dont and im just thinking it does because i see more numbers, ive never tested it.

Bjond
06-16-2019, 09:56 PM
I get Rat has a better chance at doing damage but for me that just is not the case. Whenever I use Rat all I get is yellow numbers. Im sure this is due to me not understanding dr but....? With the increased crit range and multiplier rat does crit more, way more but in heroics it seems the procs from barovian or greensteel more than makes up for the damage loss of crits. Am I doing something wrong? I run armor pierce and fort pass yet still I get yellow numbers. When switching to barovian xbow i get the purple bursts and as I said those extra numbers equal out or surpass ratcatchers damage output in heroics. Maybe they dont and im just thinking it does because i see more numbers, ive never tested it.

Good tests are hard to come by -- we badly BADLY need a parser. What I currently do is time the solo kill on the Impossible Demands boss. It's has a lot of advantages in ease of access except for one: it's L21. That means you have to play a minimum of 5 levels to get there. You can't just roll up an iconic and stroll out to it.

For DR, especially in heroics, I ignore it and pay attention to the kill time. Most fights, the DR is just flavor and essentially meaningless. Bypass is definitely not meaningless, though, for crit-based. Anyway, what I found in my kill-time tests was that nothing beat Ratcatcher until ML29 Ravenloft. I was surprised that ML22 TF didn't beat it. I do, however, still carry TF just in case I trip over a fight with non-trivial DR.

With all that said, I am testing Rat on a mob that can't be blinded or made helpless. Helpless adds +50%. Rat's profile adds at least +30% (simple calc, not detailed). Radiance is a crit-based proc, so that +50% damage is diluted by f(crit-chance, mob hp). Still, I can see how Green can beat Rat on non-boss fights if radiance blindness proc applies pre-damage rather than post-damage or on trash with high HP.

cru121
06-17-2019, 02:08 AM
Good tests are hard to come by -- we badly BADLY need a parser. What I currently do is time the solo kill on the Impossible Demands boss. It's has a lot of advantages in ease of access except for one: it's L21. That means you have to play a minimum of 5 levels to get there. You can't just roll up an iconic and stroll out to it.

For DR, especially in heroics, I ignore it and pay attention to the kill time. Most fights, the DR is just flavor and essentially meaningless. Bypass is definitely not meaningless, though, for crit-based. Anyway, what I found in my kill-time tests was that nothing beat Ratcatcher until ML29 Ravenloft. I was surprised that ML22 TF didn't beat it. I do, however, still carry TF just in case I trip over a fight with non-trivial DR.

With all that said, I am testing Rat on a mob that can't be blinded or made helpless. Helpless adds +50%. Rat's profile adds at least +30% (simple calc, not detailed). Radiance is a crit-based proc, so that +50% damage is diluted by f(crit-chance, mob hp). Still, I can see how Green can beat Rat on non-boss fights if radiance blindness proc applies pre-damage rather than post-damage or on trash with high HP.

The thing about Ratcatcher DPS.... the better your stats are, the stronger it becomes. If you have high extra damage (high int, kta, deadly, insightful, artifact); high seeker, high fort bypass, ratcatcher shines. If your opponent has high fort, high DR, and ratcatcher only hits for piddly damage, a different weapon could be better. If you have access to a lot of sneak attack but you don't have a way how to apply it to mobs, then obviously blindness is an easy fix for that.

Jeromio
07-06-2019, 07:08 AM
Small update. When my inq/xbow char reached 29, I took her out to Impossible Demands to test Nightmother versus Ratcatcher. Night won by a very small margin -- just a couple seconds on the kill. The extra DR break and tiny vampirics further tipped the scale in favor of Nightmother. So, that's what she uses 29-30.

Finally got all the parts for epic storm (except storm itself). Last part likely has to wait on 20th ADQ run. I'd burn timers to get there if it was possible, but ADQ is bugged, timers don't work on it, and SSG hasn't shown interest in fixing it. So, in 30 days or so I'll post how Epic Storm compares to Ratcatcher.

Rat should beat dumb Epic Storm, but chatty Epic Storm should beat Rat. If not, well, I guess I farmed a very rare skin upgrade.


Have you been able to make an epic storm yet and compared it with ratcatcher?

flotterjohnny
08-17-2019, 12:33 PM
Maybe a stupid question:

What about great crossbows? They should not work with inq. tree afaik but I read somewhere they do (but not intended and fixed in futur)?

Thx!

polymath
11-24-2019, 09:22 AM
Confirmed that the 3rd completion of Threnal does indeed give the player the option of EVERY named end reward. Must be completed by same character on the same life.

Other xbows: has anyone made an alchemical lately? I have a great crossbow tier 3 alchemical and am in the process of making a light crossbow. If you need a xbox from levels 20-25, I feel it is a good choice. Not sure of the value vs. time to get ratio, but nice all the same.

-Bunk

For the ratcatcher, do you have to complete western/eastern and the 3 final quests three times to get all named items?

Stoner81
11-24-2019, 01:34 PM
For the ratcatcher, do you have to complete western/eastern and the 3 final quests three times to get all named items?

Technically yes however, once you have run through it once then open your quest journal and abandon the Eastern one. This will reset it and the South. Run those both again and you will get the end reward. Most folks do it this way because the Western one is much longer.

Stoner81.