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jirksa
02-01-2019, 09:16 AM
Hi!

Here am I again asking for advice.
I want to play ranger tempest. I want to have decent dmg and good survivability. Is it better to go heavy armor or light? I now know the super important thing with evasion, but what about incoming melee dmg? Can I survive reaper as dex based tempest? If I understand things correctly, I can have better dmg as STR based in heavy armor.

What are my chances of surviving average dungeon in light armor with evasion compered to heavy armor? And how big is dmg output difference between dualwielding khopeshes and scimitars?

Thanks for help :)

Hipparan
02-01-2019, 09:41 AM
Hi!

Here am I again asking for advice.
I want to play ranger tempest. I want to have decent dmg and good survivability. Is it better to go heavy armor or light? I now know the super important think with evasion, but what about incoming melee dmg? Can I survive reaper as dex based tempest? If I understand things correctly, I can have better dmg as STR based in heavy armor.

What are my chances of surviving average dungeon in light armor with evasion compered to heavy armor? And how big is dmg output difference between dualwielding khopeshes and scimitars?

Thanks for help :)

Personally I would go with light armor over heavy armor for the evasion but also for the dodge/dexterity bonus to AC. Using heavy armor would also require you to use a feat. I know some people have very strong opinions on Dex vs Str for their Rangers. I have a slightly unorthodox way of playing my Tempests, and I can't really talk about reaper survivability. Khopeshes are nice, but it's worth pointing out that Rangers need to spend a feat for proficiency with them. Luckily though, Rangers aren't very feat-starved since they gain the two-weapon fighting line by leveling up.

Selvera
02-01-2019, 10:48 AM
The difference between light and heavy armor is 25-30 PRR at level cap in favor of heavy armor (depending on if you use scrolls of tensors and how often). Meanwhile; tempests typically invest in deepwood stalker; which gives them up to 60 HP and 12 PRR; bringing the gap between armor styles down to 13-18.
Now consider that endgame melee builds typically try to get around 200 PRR in reaper mode; the choice of armor type is less then 10% of this prr. Much more significant are things like reaper points (up to around +40 prr) and pastlives (up to +45 prr) and having the proper items (could well be +75 prr).

But the big choice in armor boils down to the ravenloft sets. The light armor ravenloft set gives +15% doublestrike, 3d6 sneak attack, 25% fortification bypass and 10% helpless damage. The heavy armor set gives +10% AC and +20 prr. In terms of the meta; the light armor set gives so much damage that it dominates the majority of high dps builds (ranger, monk, assassin, even fighter sometimes). Pure ranger Tempests are not really supposed to be tanks; they're a "glass cannon" class.

It's also worth considering that you'll have 20% or so extra dodge in light armor; this is not insignificant.

As for dex vs str rangers; I don't know the precise numbers; but at cap the dps gap evens out a bit, since Dex rangers will have more hide skill = more sneak attack damage from Scion of the Ethereal Plane. In terms of basic damage let's look at critical profiles:

Scimitar:
levels 1 to 8: profile 18-20 x2 = 110% damage
levels 9 to 11: profile 15-20 x2 = 125% damage
levels 12 to 19: profile 14-20 x3 = 165% damage
levels 21+: profile 14-18 x3; 19-20 x5 = 185% damage.

Khopesh:
levels 1 to 8: profile 19-20 x3 = 115% damage
levels 9 to 11: profile 17-20 x3 = 135% damage
levels 12 to 19: profile 16-20 x4 = 170% damage
levels 21+: profile 16-18 x4; 19-20 x6 = 190% damage.

jirksa
02-01-2019, 05:32 PM
The difference between light and heavy armor is 25-30 PRR at level cap in favor of heavy armor (depending on if you use scrolls of tensors and how often). Meanwhile; tempests typically invest in deepwood stalker; which gives them up to 60 HP and 12 PRR; bringing the gap between armor styles down to 13-18.
Now consider that endgame melee builds typically try to get around 200 PRR in reaper mode; the choice of armor type is less then 10% of this prr. Much more significant are things like reaper points (up to around +40 prr) and pastlives (up to +45 prr) and having the proper items (could well be +75 prr).

But the big choice in armor boils down to the ravenloft sets. The light armor ravenloft set gives +15% doublestrike, 3d6 sneak attack, 25% fortification bypass and 10% helpless damage. The heavy armor set gives +10% AC and +20 prr. In terms of the meta; the light armor set gives so much damage that it dominates the majority of high dps builds (ranger, monk, assassin, even fighter sometimes). Pure ranger Tempests are not really supposed to be tanks; they're a "glass cannon" class.

It's also worth considering that you'll have 20% or so extra dodge in light armor; this is not insignificant.

As for dex vs str rangers; I don't know the precise numbers; but at cap the dps gap evens out a bit, since Dex rangers will have more hide skill = more sneak attack damage from Scion of the Ethereal Plane. In terms of basic damage let's look at critical profiles:

Scimitar:
levels 1 to 8: profile 18-20 x2 = 110% damage
levels 9 to 11: profile 15-20 x2 = 125% damage
levels 12 to 19: profile 14-20 x3 = 165% damage
levels 21+: profile 14-18 x3; 19-20 x5 = 185% damage.

Khopesh:
levels 1 to 8: profile 19-20 x3 = 115% damage
levels 9 to 11: profile 17-20 x3 = 135% damage
levels 12 to 19: profile 16-20 x4 = 170% damage
levels 21+: profile 16-18 x4; 19-20 x6 = 190% damage.


Thanks for reply!

please note: I am not a VIP but a premium, I don't have access to Ravenloft (For now it is pretty expensive compered to anything else, but I can buy it later after some discounts)

Lets say I want to go light armor dex based.

When I look at DWS I dont see any super important enhancements, its mainly for sneak (I don't think its worth it) and bow.
I can get 60HP, 12 PRR, +1 crit threat and Killer
I now that as pure ranger I will not have any other option than DWS.

When I look at kensei tree:
I cen get to-hit/dmg bonuses, dodge cap, dodge bonuses, Reed in the wind for dodge every 15sec,
and opportinuty attack, which i believe (due to dual-wielding = lots of hits per second) can use almost anytime = +20 melee power
If am not mistaken I can get action boosts that have separate uses per rest then the ones from tempest.
I can get cheep 25 prr and mrr from std.

Can this beat the capstones? Probably not...or can they??
Is there something better for dex-based tempest than pure ranger?

Selvera
02-01-2019, 06:37 PM
For dex based tempest; pure ranger is the best.

1) Sneak attack is very good. Not only does it apply on every hit with ranger's insane attack speed; it scales with melee power and it is reduced less in reaper difficulty.

2) Exposing Strike is very good. It lets you apply your full sneak attack damage on every hit on the target for a few seconds; even if it's agro'd on you. It also prevents the target from hitting you for a short time. Also; if you use it with Dance of Death; you can apply it to multiple targets.

3) +1 critical threat is good; the critical damage calculations I showed above assumed you had it by level 12 (might not be possible with availble AP; but you'd get it asap.

4) The capstone for tempests is amazing, the level 18 cores for tempest and deepwood are both decent.

5) Killer, Merciful Strike, Favored Hunter and Thrill of the Hunt and Survivalist are all worth their AP costs.

A fighter splash may increase the durability a small amount, but for dps pure ranger is the way to go.

Hjarki
02-01-2019, 08:20 PM
Scimitar:
levels 1 to 8: profile 18-20 x2 = 110% damage
levels 9 to 11: profile 15-20 x2 = 125% damage
levels 12 to 19: profile 14-20 x3 = 165% damage
levels 21+: profile 14-18 x3; 19-20 x5 = 185% damage.

Khopesh:
levels 1 to 8: profile 19-20 x3 = 115% damage
levels 9 to 11: profile 17-20 x3 = 135% damage
levels 12 to 19: profile 16-20 x4 = 170% damage
levels 21+: profile 16-18 x4; 19-20 x6 = 190% damage.

This likely changes once Knight's Training arrives. Running primary hand Battle Axe and off-hand Warhammer, a Tempest can push their critical profile up to ~210%. Even just running paired Warhammers, they'll be at 205%. Other options like main hand Battle Axe, off-hand Khopesh (for Fetters of Unreality) are an option as well.

Nor does Ethereal even things out much. Even if the Strength Ranger completely dump stats Dexterity (unlikely given it's still used for Ref/AC), you're still likely only seeing a 60 point discrepancy in Dexterity - which translates to +10 Sneak Attack.

jirksa
02-02-2019, 04:33 AM
Should i go PA and both cleaves? Or is it wasting since i can get many active attacks from enhancements? Is precision a better choice for Scimitars TWF?

AbyssalMage
02-02-2019, 07:11 AM
Should i go PA and both cleaves? Or is it wasting since i can get many active attacks from enhancements? Is precision a better choice for Scimitars TWF?
I've done PA + Cleaves

I've done Precision + Dodge

I would argue you want to do Precision + Dodge for two reasons:
A) You said you do not have Ravenloft which means you are going to struggle as you get closer to cap on hitting things (Just means you have to work harder with less options. People have done it, you can too). You want to hit things because your best (and one of the best) AoE attacks requires you to connect on the first strike.
B) More important, Cleave only works on the primary equipped weapon. The Range Tier 5 enhancement is better (if you can hit).

As far as the argument between Strength v. Dexterity:
Strength is better if you have the gear. Dexterity is more user friendly. I would guess Dexterity would be the better bet for now. LGS Scimitars are fairly easy to grind out if you have Vale Pack (and yes, IMO it is a grind). Then jump in a LShroud Raid to craft your weapons.

Sho-sa
02-02-2019, 01:54 PM
The most important thing I would say to is there are many ways to have fun and be perfectly effective without having to be the absolute best at anything or everything.

If you would like to read more I would emphasize that you should think about what brings you joy and play that.

DEX-based is a perfectly fine option and I echo the Precision + Dodge option. Evasion is gold; especially with a high DEX. It is easier to spend points in the lower levels of the Tempest tree if you have Dodge. With the lvl 5 spin attack for Tempest you will not miss Cleave. Combined with Deepwood Sniper tree you have all kinds of useful abilities. If you go Elf the damage values of scimmies go up nicely and there are lots of nice ones in game.