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View Full Version : Sentient Light Mace of DR-breaking .. where are you?



Bjond
01-25-2019, 07:58 AM
One of my planned (future/eventual) builds is for an Aasimar Scourge Swashbuckler, thus mandatory light-mace. Among other things, I'd like it to have neg-immunity and be mostly a bard. Here are some thoughts I had, none of which come without large caveats.

Scourge wants 8~19 AP; 8 buys Healing Hands with 3m regen + Good for Lmace. 9 AP gets 5% double and more after that earns Hamp and a stacking 1+Mult for Lmace. So, Scourge has a lot of alignment covered for DR and mostly wants metal breaking.

Bard has UMD. Artificier scrolls cover byeshk & adamantine, but the others are rare drops (can't plan on keeping stacks around). L26 feat can pierce silver or cold-iron for one missing metal, but doesn't help sub-26.

-- building over gaps costs a lot of AP or "bardness"

Cleric 9 (death domain) Bard 9~10 Art 1 | Rog 2 with non-sentient crafted. Solves drain & DR-break. Likely extremely efficient solo. Gives up 9~34% runspeed and 1~2 no-save CCs compared to Bard+Barb. Is it still a bard?

VKF 23 AP (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/502741-VKF-quot-Draino-quot-Build-Stub?p=6176523#post6176523) buys: drain, 25% neg, 9 MPRR, 10% double, Fan of Knives, Quick Draw, Deflect Arrows, & 30% action haste. Add a crafted breaker and it's perfect. BUT. Not enough AP for Racials, VKF, and T5 Swash without racial completionist. Never enough for T5 WC. Ignoring racial effort, VKF is in too damn many builds as-is. It's the swiss-army knife of build solutions. Like to avoid if possible, probably can't.

Occult Slayer T5 32 AP buys: metalline and knock-out, but that rips the heart out of bard (no T5 swash or wc) and the entire tree is VERY fluffy: 6 AC 12 PRR 15 MRR 6 Poison/Disease/Elemental are the only gains enroute with this tree. End result is barely a bard, but it gets to use a drow light mace as a DR breaker.

-- finding a sentient DR-breaking Lmace as an item is *hard*

Crafted has metalline, but can't be sentient. That leaves named and there's a serious shortage of light maces L20+ that accept sentience, plus the named don't break anything useful or are too-high level to see much use on a character that will be TR'ing instantly @ L30 for a very long time.

I only see two Lmaces that can break metal and go sentient: L29 Barovian (https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_37_named_items), which can give Evil or Silver+Good + redslot for another break or L20&24 Cormyrian Weapons (https://ddowiki.com/page/Eveningstar_Challenge_Pack) which (after enough farming) can yield a single metal, but has no augment slot for more DR.

By far, my preference would be to handle drain & DR with items because the end-result can be MUCH more of a Bard with a lot less effort. But, items seem lacking in that regard. Do any of y'all see a way through to a Sentient Light Mace that can break at least a very large subset of DR if not all of it? I'm thinking Cold-Iron on L20 Cormyrian is as good as it gets for epic leveling + random raiding. Any other thoughts?

AbyssalMage
01-26-2019, 05:07 PM
Most people just carry a DR breaker for the rare times you may need one.

DR /Good;Silver is the most common with DR /Adamantine probably being next.

TF (or Possibly LGS, honestly I don't know if LGS can break DR) is the most common DR breaker 22+

Epic Skullcracker (sp?) can accept sentience and has a decent profile in the hands of a Bard.

Saekee
01-26-2019, 05:22 PM
you could do a Mournlode light mace from Cannith Challenges

Bjond
01-27-2019, 06:26 AM
you could do a Mournlode light mace from Cannith Challenges

Mornlode (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Mournlode_Weapons) L16 can break everything, but can't be sentient. L20 can only break one thing via augment, unless the wiki is in error and it really can be crafted on like the L16 version. 'Dunno why they removed craftable between 16 & 20, it would have been perfect.


Most people just carry a DR breaker for the rare times you may need one.

I'm worried there either is or will be a boss fight that applies negative levels. And, I really hate doubling-up on effort. I'd rather do less damage on trash by using a boss-capable weapon than have a great weapon that can only be used on trash.


Epic Skullcracker (sp?) can accept sentience and has a decent profile in the hands of a Bard.

According to wiki, Epic Skullsmasher (https://ddowiki.com/page/Sentient_Weapon/Ineligible_weapons) is one of those bugged? weapons that should but doesn't accept sentience. And, it can't break DR.

I may end up going with one of those anyway, though. Good (from Scourge) + Silver|Cold-Iron (from augment) might be as good as it gets for break+profile on light mace. But, right now I'm thinking VKF (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/502741-VKF-quot-Draino-quot-Build-Stub?p=6176523#post6176523) + Non-Sentient Crafted (TF, LGS, or Cannith). There's not enough for my usual 8 AP into Occult Slayer for Knock-Out, but still gets T5 Swash and C3 from WC.

My concern about using VKF isn't so much the racial completionist effort, but that the vast majority of it's play time will be spent as another race (of course without it's flavor). The entire reason for picking Scourge is to play as Scourge. Once racials are done, it's, well, done. Where to from there? That much effort has to lead to some fantastic use afterwards or it would need to be more about the trip than destination.

Ah, well, it will be a month or so before I'll likely make this character and start it on it's path. Maybe someone will post a genius solve that threads the maze for this build. Maybe devs will patch sentience into crafteds. At the very least I'll know more.

Saekee
01-27-2019, 06:55 AM
the ML20 mournlode has righteous which makes it good DR then it has a purple slot & colorless. It is not a great weapon, just saying

Hjarki
01-27-2019, 03:26 PM
- DR breaking isn’t as important as you seem to believe. A simple Barovian’s (whatever) with a red augment can be Silver/Cold Iron. Add in your two scrolls and you’ve covered everything except Crystal and Mithral. If you happen to run across those, you can simply use some sort of crafted weapon.

- Energy Drain immunity isn’t as important as you seem to believe. Death Ward is available from clickies and your local divine caster. There are plenty of ways to deal with this that don't involve warping your entire build: https://ddowiki.com/page/Negative_level

- Scourge/Light Mace is almost exclusively worthwhile for a pure Bard (Sorcerer-based Eldritch Knight builds can also benefit but are beyond the scope here). For almost any other Bard build, you can use Hand Axe instead - and not lock yourself into spending 17+ AP to reach that level of performance. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play a Scourge Bard - just that if you are, you almost certainly want to play a pure one.

- Occult Slayer doesn’t make any sense with Swashbuckling. If you’re using a Hand Axe/Light Pick and taking a T5 Barbarian ability, it should be Focused Wrath. If you’re not using those weapons, Occult Metalline doesn’t increase your critical profile over what Swashbuckling already gave you. Perhaps once Knight’s Training goes live you’ll see PDK Bards with Occult Slayer + Long Swords, but I’m not sure this is a particularly worthwhile approach.

- T4 VKF only makes sense if you’re actually using Daggers. However, VKF runs afoul of the doublestrike cap on Bards with past lives/gear/etc. so it’s more suited to novice or heroic builds.

Bjond
01-28-2019, 11:42 AM
- DR breaking isn’t as important as you seem to believe. A simple Barovian’s (whatever) with a red augment can be Silver/Cold Iron.

Yeah, I've since learned my issue with the raid boss that was causing my weapons to break 1/3 of the way through weren't due to lack of DR-breaking, but just due to naturally high CR on a raid boss. So, I'll have to adamantine-ritual and/or carry 5~6 backup weapons for doing raids at lower levels (before I can use weapons with more natural hardness).


- Energy Drain immunity isn’t as important as you seem to believe. Death Ward is available from clickies and your local divine caster.[/url]

This matches what I've read, but not what I've experienced in game. All my in-game play says Death Ward is pointless because it's dispelled right away. My main has 9 cleric levels atm (just until ITR), and even being able to cast DW & Restoration is not enough. So, my current feeling is that drain immunity is so important that I won't ever EVER play without it for any reason.

However, my experience with other MMOs says "noobness wears off and you will reach a point where your opinions align (more or less) with experienced players." So, I'm wondering more when will I change my mind rather than if. My guess is that will happen once I know quests so well that I know which mobs dispel, which don't, and how close are the shrines after those that do.


- Scourge/Light Mace is almost exclusively worthwhile ..

Yeah, thinking about this and also combining it with the thought that if I play this character enough to want Racial & Heroic PLs, I'd have to play as non-Scourge for a LONG time has made me punt the whole Scourge Light Mace idea. It's attractive, but only for a character that isn't played a lot and can stay scourge.

I think much of my desire to play a Scourge character comes from the nice character models. I know the reason I won't play PDK is due to their absurdly goofy look.


- Occult Slayer doesn’t make any sense with Swashbuckling

Knockout is 8 AP into Occult. It's fantasic is with T5 Swash, but T5 Occult is only for pairing with some WC while Swash gets dumped. And, yeah, it's just too much AP and the entire tree past KO is fairly worthless.


VKF runs afoul of the doublestrike cap on Bards with past lives/gear/etc. so it’s more suited to novice or heroic builds.

AH! Hmm. I didn't realize doublestrike capped at all. I'd read TWF off-hand capped @ 100, or maybe I've confused the two. Doubleshot doesn't cap, too, does it?

Fivetigers33
01-28-2019, 03:31 PM
you could do a Mournlode light mace from Cannith Challenges

For a Light Mace, this is your best bet as a DR breaker until you can grab a Morninglord's Mace at 29.

For DPS (in early/mid epics) a Drow Light Mace of the Weaponmaster is it.

I did a Scourge/Bard/Barbarian life a while back and the melee DPS was pretty nasty. Have fun!

Bjond
01-28-2019, 05:59 PM
For DPS (in early/mid epics) a Drow Light Mace of the Weaponmaster is it.

Ya, I actually have a Drow Light Mace of Stunning. One dropped on me when I was doing the quest on my main. That's what spawned the whole Scourge + Swash idea. Unfortunately, one of the tibits y'all tossed out at me made me rethink the whole "scourge" concept.

I really like the bard/cc play in general and the runspeed and the group aria. So, this char would eventually become an oft-played alt or even replace my main for top play-time if I really like it. That's not good for a build so focused on racial flavor. It needs to not be tied to one race.

Brushhook has the same eventual profile and breaks DR and has ML14~24 versions. Could go with that. And, the build would only need a single feat swap (different ImpCrit) if some other nice weapon lands on me. "Ooh, shiney!" (sorry, latent kobold genes)