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Tussle
12-30-2018, 11:50 AM
Hello DDO Family,
My play group and I transitioned from Pen and Paper to DDO game nights. After leveling a few different pure classes to the 10-12 range I have desire to build a multi-class for trap reasons. [The reason is we die to traps all the time!!]
I prefer to play basic fighters, I like having the extra beef, and I've never been particularly clever with min/maxing.
I recently tried a pure rogue Mechanic and was very happy with how ranged combat felt and with the elf racial "Nothing is Hidden" [actually I LOVE THIS!, never take it away] but I die ALOT because I just am really squishy...and again, my heart belongs to Fighters.
My recent rogue was modeled loosely after this thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/473059-Self-Healing-Halfling-Mechanic-For-New-Players/page2
And I should also probably give props to Unbongwah, CDog, and the other posters who have shared many other build threads me and my fellows have used for inspiration.

Here are my specific questions:
What would be the minimum amount of Rogue levels a Fighter could take if they planned on maxing out Crossbow Combat? [I know Tier 5 Mechanic is 5 Rogue levels, but is 12 Rogue necessary for dmg reasons? 18 Rogue necessary for Expert Builder?]
Assuming a Fighter / Rogue split... Should I be using Great Crossbows or Heavy Repeaters?

I'm VIP [so Harper 12 is possible, I'm assuming I'll need it since most int builds show it...I'm guessing b/c I switch from Ranged to Melee occasionally?] and have Drow.
I consider "Nothing is Hidden" a firm requirement because most of these maps I'm seeing for the first time and I personally have found it to be so helpful I'll not drop it. I'm my groups only willing Trapper, so again I need at least some Rogue.
I have Drow if the community suggests it, but since I'm doing 8 in a Racial Tree Khorvaire Elf seems better because of the Point Blank Shot Bonus and extra Dragon Mark use.
I would love to know that 12 Fighter / 8 Rogue would be viable... But as I said earlier I'm not a Min/Max specialist so am not sure how critical the 12 and 18 mechanic cores are.

I don't need a full build to be shown, though that'd be appreciated; I'm really just more concerned with how far I need to go with Rogue to not gimp my Xbow dmg.

cru121
12-30-2018, 12:01 PM
do you have tomes?
are you leveling 1-20 or up to 30.

Tussle
12-30-2018, 12:06 PM
I don't 'have' tomes; but I'm perfectly willing to buy them.... my builds are 28-pointers by default.
My hope is to level to max and still be viable...obviously though I have no experience with anything above about level 10.

Bozone
12-30-2018, 02:00 PM
Welcome to the game.

I've recently returned from an extended break from the game. I was never an expert builder and there have been numerous updates that may have changed things, so don't take my advice without confirming it.

You said you want a trapper, like to play fighter types and like ranged combat. Have you considered a Ranger/Rogue? Rangers are full BAB class, get a good number of skill points to help keep the trapping skills up, and are auto-granted a number of feats that make them viable for ranged and melee. Since the feats are auto-granted, you don't have to meet minimum ability requirements.

I haven't played a mechanic crossbow build, so can't help there. If you want to use crossbows rather than bows, the ranger/rogue is probably not your option. If so, sorry to distract the thread with an irrelevant alternative.

Since you said your group is new to DDO, if you haven't bought MOTU and Shadowfell expansions yet, don't miss the 75% of sales in the DDO market.

I hope you enjoy the game.

unbongwah
12-30-2018, 02:15 PM
What would be the minimum amount of Rogue levels a Fighter could take if they planned on maxing out Crossbow Combat? [I know Tier 5 Mechanic is 5 Rogue levels, but is 12 Rogue necessary for dmg reasons? 18 Rogue necessary for Expert Builder?]
Broadly speaking, there are two types of Mechanic builds: those with at least 5 rogue levels for tier-5 abilities (6 if you don't have Harper to get INT to damage from Targeting Sights); and those with at least 18 rogue levels for Expert Builder (+2 crit multiplier to great xbows, +1 crit multiplier to all other ranged/thrown weapons). Of the former, the most common MC splits involve fighter 6 for Strike w/No Thought (+1 crit multiplier to make up for no Expert Builder); and/or artificer 4 for Endless Fusillade (tier-4 Battle Engineer).

Of course, there are always exceptions...

Assuming a Fighter / Rogue split... Should I be using Great Crossbows or Heavy Repeaters?
That's up to you, although for any great xbow build Mechanic has the best tier-5 abilities IMO: Mechanical Reloader's +30% Ranged Alacrity with non-repeating crossbows is the highest Ranged Alacrity bonus available; and Sniper's "Great Crossbows now vorpal on a 19-20" effect means twice as many free knockdowns as well as any other vorpal effects you might have (e.g., Manslayer).

For repeaters it's more of a wash: tier-5 Kensei gives you +10 extra Ranged Power and +1 crit range; tier-5 Mechanic gives +10% Doubleshot and a bit more sneak attack. The build I posted below combines tier-5 Kensei with tier-4 Mechanic; reversing that is simply a matter of resetting Enhancements.

I would love to know that 12 Fighter / 8 Rogue would be viable... But as I said earlier I'm not a Min/Max specialist so am not sure how critical the 12 and 18 mechanic cores are.
Without the level 12 Mechanic core or an Artificer splash, you'll have to take the heavy repeater proficiency feat, but that's no big deal as you'll have plenty to spare. You also give up a lot of sneak attacks, but you have Power Surge and Greater Weapon Specialization to help make up for it. You can also dip into Stalwart Defender for the survivability bonuses.

Given your goals and constraints, here's a pretty straight-forward build for heavy repeaters.

Drow Kensei Mechanic
12/8 Fighter/Rogue
True Neutral Drow


Level Order

1. Rogue 6. Fighter 11. Rogue 16. Fighter
2. Fighter 7. Fighter 12. Rogue 17. Rogue
3. Fighter 8. Rogue 13. Fighter 18. Rogue
4. Fighter 9. Fighter 14. Fighter 19. Rogue
5. Fighter 10. Fighter 15. Fighter 20. Rogue


Stats
28pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 4: INT
Dexterity 17 +2 8: INT
Constitution 14 12: INT
Intelligence 18 16: INT
Wisdom 8 20: DEX
Charisma 10 24: DEX
28: INT

Skills
R F F F F F F R F F R R F F F F R R R R
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Disable 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Open Lo 4 7 3 1 ? ? ? ? 3 1 1 1 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Hide 4 2 1 8 8 23
Move Si 4 ? ? 8 1 7 1 1 23
UMD 4 3 7 1 5 1 1 1 23
Balance 4 1 5
Jump 4 1 5
Swim 4 4
Tumble 4 4
Haggle 4 4
------------------------------------------------------------
48 6 6 6 6 6 6 13 7 7 13 13 7 7 7 8 14 14 14 14


Feats

1 : Rapid Reload
2 Fighter: Exotic Weapon: Rpt Hvy Crossbow
3 : Point Blank Shot
3 Fighter: Precise Shot
5 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
6 : Precision
7 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Ranged
9 : Improved Critical: Ranged
10 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
12 : Improved Precise Shot
14 Fighter: Rapid Shot
15 : Insightful Reflexes
16 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
18 : Toughness OR Power Critical <filler feat>
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver
27 Epic : Watchful Eye
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane


Enhancements (80 AP)

Kensei (35 AP)

Kensei Focus: Crossbows, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge

Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Exotic Weapon Mastery, Haste Boost III
Weapon Group Specialization
Critical Mastery III, Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Shot II
Weapon Group Specialization, Liquid Courage, Strike at the Heart
Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Deadly Shot, Keen Edge



Mechanic (25 AP)

Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights

Sharpshooter, Mechanics III
Sharpshooter, Wand and Scroll Mastery III, Skill Boost III
Sharpshooter, Intelligence
Fletching III, Leg Shot



Harper Agent (11 AP)

Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III



Stalwart Defender (6 AP)

Toughness, Stalwart Defense

Item Defense I, Durable Defense III



Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)

Staff Control

Fast Movement



Leveling Guide

Mec0 Arbalester; Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat
Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II
Reset Mechanic

Harper Agent: Intelligence

(none)
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat



Mec0 Arbalester; Ken0 Kensei Focus: Crossbows; Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization
Ken1 Exotic Weapon Mastery; Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization
Ken0 Spiritual Bond; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II, III
Ken0 Strike with No Thought; Ken3 Shattering Shot I; Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization
Ken1 Extra Action Boost I, II
Ken1 Extra Action Boost III; Ken4 Strike at the Heart
Ken4 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken4 Liquid Courage; Ken3 Critical Mastery I
Ken3 Critical Mastery II, III; Ken3 Shattering Shot II; Hrp2 Versatile Adept I
Ken5 One with the Blade; Ken5 Keen Edge; Ken5 Weapon Master; Ken5 Deadly Shot
TA0 Staff Control; TA1 Fast Movement; Mec1 Mechanics I
Mec1 Sharpshooter; Mec1 Mechanics II; Mec0 Tanglefoot
Mec2 Skill Boost I, II, III; Mec1 Mechanics III
Ken0 Power Surge; Mec2 Wand and Scroll Mastery I, II, III
Mec2 Sharpshooter; Mec3 Sharpshooter
Reset Harper Agent

Mechanic: Targeting Sights

(none)
(none)
Intelligence
Fletching III




Stalwart Defender: Toughness, Stalwart Defense

Item Defense I, Durable Defense III




Harper Agent: Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat



Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II, III; Hrp2 Versatile Adept I
Hrp2 Versatile Adept II, III; Mec4 Leg Shot



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Attack Boost III, Constitution
Damage Boost III, Constitution
Critical Damage III
(none)
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer


Twists of Fate (22 fate points)

Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)


As a first-lifer I tried to keep things reasonable. :) +2 DEX tome from Favor (https://ddowiki.com/page/Favor#Total_Favor) to meet Improved Precise Shot DEX pre-req; the two level-ups into DEX are to meet Combat Archery's DEX requirement. Adjust base stats as you see fit based on whatever tome(s) you actually have.

Due to AP constraints, I skipped Nothing is Hidden and took Watchful Eye as an epic consolation prize. Adjust Enhancements as you see fit while leveling. But the idea is to grab tier-3 Strategic Combat for INT to damage ASAP (level 3); then drop it when you have access to Targeting Sights (level 6 Mechanic) instead.

Also consider the reverse level split: rogue 12 / fighter 8. You give up a couple of feats (Gtr Weap Spec) and Power Surge; but gain higher sneak attacks, extra runspeed from Fast Movement, and longer PBS range from level 12 Mechanic core.

jskinner937
12-30-2018, 02:50 PM
If you are maxing xbow dmg you would want to go 10R/6F/4A. Fusillade is amazing on a great xbow. Here is a link to build I played although I tweaked AP slightly. I have played many xbow builds and this one by far is top DPS as far as xbow dmg goes. Crazy dmg.


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/493152-The-Never-Ending-Fusilade?highlight=Endless+fusillade

Oh and survivability is no issue. A blindness proc Xbox is pretty good damage control. And the thindeforge at level 23 is pretty amazing as well. Pick up the rune arm run speed enhancement or from acrobat tree when you need to kite, but honestly most things are dead before they get to you.

C-Dog
12-31-2018, 12:14 PM
I don't 'have' tomes; but I'm perfectly willing to buy them.... my builds are 28-pointers by default...
You'll get a +2 free at 1750 favor (easily doable around level 12-16, depending), and you can buy more off the AH. They can be spendy, but if you keep an eye out sometimes you can find rare deals.


...Fusillade is amazing on a great xbow...
Artificer is not free to anyone, including VIP. Guessing the OP doesn't have access, since he didn't mention it.