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mistress_minx
12-21-2018, 01:34 AM
I am about to do my 2nd ever TR, going from lvl 30, back to lvl 20, then back to lvl 1.

I already used my seeds for the Epic Heart, now I need to use my tokens for the other one. I'm not sure my best course for going about this though, and would like some thoughts, opinions, and ideas.

My 1st life I was a human, & pure rogue. I did a racial TR from 30 back to 1.

My 2nd life is a human, & barb 15/ rogue 5. I'm at 30 now.

For my 3rd life, I'm either going pure rogue, pure barb, or barb/rogue mix again.

Reason for these choices for my 3rd life are that I love trapping : I play with just myself or 1-2 other ppl sometimes, and it's handy to be a rogue on these occasions : my fighting style is I use great swords only, or great axes, and I like to barrel in and smack em close up. Sometimes I like to run a bit to get a few of em in a group so I can hit more of em at once.

All my gear I've been gathering (for lvls 5-30) is geared for both Barb n Rogue. Legendary Blackrazor, L Precision Lenses, 4 diff lvls of Treasure Hunters Spyglass, Manuel of Stealthy Pilfering, L Mantle of Fury, L & H Keylock Ring, L Bracers of Fallen Hero, L & Heroic Coat of the Traveler med armor, Epic & Heroic of Dream Visor, E & H Bracers of Twisting Shade, just to give an idea. Plus numerous regular, non-named helms, gloves, goggles, etc all geared with spot, search, disable, constitution, strength (also augs and tomes)

So my questions are :

1) what might be a good idea for my 3rd life class or classes ? R20, B20, B15/R5, or R15/B5

2) since I already did 1 racial TR, should I go ahead and keep doing it until the human reincarnation is capped, or should I do a class TR (which would be barb as that has the most lvls in it) ?

3) Should I wait to do a class TR until I'm either pure rogue or mostly rogue so it helps with those skills ?

My goals are these :

1) I'd like to be able to hit harder, and take less damage, as I have trouble doing my part sometimes in parties, and have to be saved or rezed a lot. I love joining LFM's, but I want to be useful & not a burden.

2) I'd like to improve my rogue skills, as I had lots of trouble using spot, search, disable running at lvl from about 15-24. I couldn't do them at all running on Elite or R1. I could only do them 1-2 lvls below. Since getting all the named gear though, I've had no probs at all, but all that stuff is lvls 26 - 30. That doesn't help me in in the mid range levels.

Thank you very much in advance :)

mistress_minx
12-21-2018, 01:42 AM
When doing the reincarnation back from 20, does it make a difference if I go to 1, 7, or 15 for what my goals are ?

AbyssalMage
12-21-2018, 05:31 AM
When doing the reincarnation back from 20, does it make a difference if I go to 1, 7, or 15 for what my goals are ?
If you choose an Iconic Character, you are bestowed enough xp to reach level 15, at creation. You must also wait until level 30 before you do either a TR or RR.

If you do not choose an Iconic Class, you always start at level 1. You can then do a RR or TR at 20. Or go to level 30 and do an ER followed by a RR/TR.

AbyssalMage
12-21-2018, 05:50 AM
So my questions are :

1) what might be a good idea for my 3rd life class or classes ? R20, B20, B15/R5, or R15/B5
I like pure Barb
Some people like pure Rogue (Vastani Tree is really nice to combo this with. You will be using daggers though, not swords).
Others like 18 Barbarian/2 Rogue although I think this has fallen out of favor with most players.

Play what you gain the most enjoyment out of. You are going to TR again (or at least this sounds like your plan).



2) since I already did 1 racial TR, should I go ahead and keep doing it until the human reincarnation is capped, or should I do a class TR (which would be barb as that has the most lvls in it) ?
Personally I am saving my Racial TR's for after I am done doing Class TR's. Racial TR's are backloaded. By this I mean you don't gain anything substantial until you do the 3rd one for each race which is a shame. Most of the Class TR's are front loaded (you can take almost immediate advantage from them).

Do what feels best for you.


3) Should I wait to do a class TR until I'm either pure rogue or mostly rogue so it helps with those skills ?
Passive Rogue Life is +1 (3 max) damage to all sneak attacks. Nothing great but it is damage. Other than that not sure what you are asking about "skills." Pure Rogue, or not, as long as you have gear and tomes, should be fine to trap.


My goals are these :

1) I'd like to be able to hit harder, and take less damage, as I have trouble doing my part sometimes in parties, and have to be saved or rezed a lot. I love joining LFM's, but I want to be useful & not a burden.
5k Favor, get lucky on tome drops, or buy tomes in store
3 x Monk PL's
3 x Arcane ED PL's
3 x Martial ED PL's
3 x Iconic PL's (Deep Gnome, PDK, and possible Shadar-Kai if your dodge isn't capped)



2) I'd like to improve my rogue skills, as I had lots of trouble using spot, search, disable running at lvl from about 15-24. I couldn't do them at all running on Elite or R1. I could only do them 1-2 lvls below. Since getting all the named gear though, I've had no probs at all, but all that stuff is lvls 26 - 30. That doesn't help me in in the mid range levels.
Gear and tomes are your answer to this problem.

Kenpai
12-21-2018, 06:14 AM
Racial #2 for Human is +1 WIS and #3 is +1 racial AP, the former is situationally useful (can bump up spot depending on if wis is even or odd) and the latter is almost universally useful. Meanwhile PL Barbarian is 10 HP/stack. Very useful in lower levels where you go from 50 to 60/70/80 hp, not so much going from 975 to 985/995/1005. Since you already have 1 Human past life, I'd strongly recommend grabbing the next 2 Human PLs.

I would not grab any Rogue or Barbarian past lives on your character--not until you get more useful lives out of the way first. Artificer nets you +1 Search and Disable Device per PL. Drow PLs give you +1 Search then +1 INT. Elf gives +1 Spot and +1 DEX. Halfling also gets DEX. Dwarf and Warforged(if you own it) both give CON, less useful for HP in the early levels than Barbarian but shines in epics and also gives fort saves. Paladin gives you healing amp which lets you potion/wand/scroll heal yourself better and lets the healers in the party hit you to full easier. Ranger gives +2 to elemental resists, useful against multi hit spells and DoTs. Warlock gives MRR which helps against most spells. Those are all about in the order I'd do the lives in. Maybe move the CON/HAmp up if the Arti lives+gear you acquire running them lets you hit traps sufficiently. Running all of these gives:
+4 Search, +3 Disable Device, (+5 and +4 if the INT pushes you to an even number), +1(or +2) Spot and maybe +1 Will save, +1 Open Lock and Reflex save, +30 HP at cap and +1 Fort save, +30% Heal Amp, +6 Fire, Acid, Cold, Sonic and Electricity resists, +9 MRR, and 6 Racial AP if you do all 3 lives for the listed races, which can be used for Human Skill Boost+Awareness, Drow/Elf Keen Senses, Aasimar Healing Hands to keep yourself up better, etc.
In comparison, 3 Barb lives give +30 HP. 3 Rogue lives give +6 saves vs traps and +3 sneak attack damage. Neither are bad, but imo they're tiered behind Racials, Arti, Paladin and Ranger.

mistress_minx
12-21-2018, 10:19 AM
AbyssalMage : Yes, I plan to TR many times, as this is my main. My alts will be TR-ing maybe 5 times tops, then parked at different lower lvls just for use as openers for the people I know who are F2P, and to help people out if my main isn't within level to do so. So the knowledge I'm gaining through all of you via this thread will help me with those characters as well :) Skills I mean are the spot, search, disable, open lock. Since I've gotten better at those after gaining better gear and tomes, I see what you mean about that having been my problem before then. I just used my saved points last night for the greater tomes of Epic & Heroic Learning that are on sale, but am considering buying more points to get a tome of supreme ability, and the +5 tomes of skill x 6 pack that are both also on sale. I've recently been doing sagas as a true elitist to gain tomes that way as well, thanks to the assistance of some great players that I've met.

Kenpai : Since my ultimate goal is the be a strong trapping and melee character, what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me. I was under the mistaken impression that I had to keep doing rogue and barb only to do that, but am understanding now through this that it's based on the lvls of things like wis, dex, con, str, etc that will make the difference, as well as the spot, search, disable, open lock. Thank you so much for looking all those stats up for me, as I can now refer to this post for my lvl-ing and TR's. I did read the wiki stuff on it all, but there was so much info that I was a bit confused still. You've condensed it nicely in an easy to understand way. The saves vs traps and sneak attack do not do me much good after lvl 26, as you predicted. I have on items that protect me well from all elements anyways, so I tend to run through those traps if by myself. I do disable them if in a party, as I'm not out to zerge along getting those with me killed in traps. I just get killed by them on lower lvls, so upping those saves will help during those times. Since my fighting style is melee/tank, I don't know if I've actually used my sneak more than a handful of times, so I agree, that's not very useful to me at this time.

Thank you both so very much ! I really appreciate what you've both said, and will do as you've both suggested

Selvera
12-21-2018, 02:48 PM
I'll preface this by saying that gear is one of the biggest factors between being a strong character and a weak character. Check out this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzQkxvaQFxI) of me soloing quests on R1 with a first life melee character using top tier gear.

Build and past lives are both important; but IMO not as important as gear is, especially if you're a melee trapper.

If you're locked into wanting to do a barb/rogue greatsword build; then 18 barb /2 rogue is probably your best bet if you have the harper tree. You'll want most of your enhancement points in barbarian class trees; with a smattering in harper (for int to hit/damage) and mechanic (for +6 skills action boost) if you can afford the points. If you don't have harper for int to hit/damage, then you might want more rogue levels to have enough skill points to trap properly.

But if you're willing to try out new builds; you could consider things like 18 fighter/2 rogue greatsword + heavy armor, int based. Very similar to barbarian; but you'll have to rely on scrolls/potions/hirelings for healing, and it should be a bit tankier and dish out maybe a little more damage. Or a 20 rogue theif acrobat (light armor, quarterstaff, dexterity build)

mna
12-22-2018, 06:49 AM
Kenpai : Since my ultimate goal is the be a strong trapping and melee character, what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me. I was under the mistaken impression that I had to keep doing rogue and barb only to do that, but am understanding now through this that it's based on the lvls of things like wis, dex, con, str, etc that will make the difference, as well as the spot, search, disable, open lock.

There's also the problem that melee trappers, at least those not going primarily TA with quarterstaff, are easier done as something other than two-hander builds. Rangers (TWF Tempest/DWS - the "Tempest Trapmonkey" is a long-running concept for that) and bards (SWF Swashbuckler) with their better skill point allotments and stat-to-damage synergies, and even druid (wolf)...

I've been able to do all traps on elite on a first-life mostly-melee build all the way up to high epics... but it was a mostly-ranger thing, and since then that build (Tempest Warpriest) was hit particularly hard by the Ameliorating Strike nerf. Besides, maxing trap skill bonuses from enhancements to compensate for lack of gear meant a huge hit in melee effectiveness, but... well, priorities... 3 classes with relevant enhancements available and stacking (meaning not exactly alike) from each, and then racial too... oh well, reset enhancements when you get better gear and such.

Then again, with a 34/36 point Human (+1 skill point/level) or an Int-bonus race (+2 Int giving +1 skill point/level and +1 bonus to Int skills) and a +2 Int tome from 1750 favor once, you should be able to get enough skill points to make do anyway.



1) what might be a good idea for my 3rd life class or classes ? R20, B20, B15/R5, or R15/B5
There's also the option of going 2 rogue / 18 barb, and if you happen to have a higher than +2 Int tome already and no fancy quarterstaves in the bank... well, I'm considering doing that one myself on a second life. Uneven Int tome (+3 from the cards the other year in my case) means the level 4 stat point goes in Int, and I figure I probably could get away with not using the Harper tree too if I play it smart.



2) since I already did 1 racial TR, should I go ahead and keep doing it until the human reincarnation is capped, or should I do a class TR (which would be barb as that has the most lvls in it) ?
Eh, strictly minmaxing for this, the human past lives should be slightly better. If you'd planned to do some sort of a complex character build (or a squishy caster) next that has problems surviving at low levels, then the barbarian.


3) Should I wait to do a class TR until I'm either pure rogue or mostly rogue so it helps with those skills ?
Well, since rogue past lives don't help with skills... only saves and sneak damage...


My goals are these :

1) I'd like to be able to hit harder, and take less damage, as I have trouble doing my part sometimes in parties, and have to be saved or rezed a lot. I love joining LFM's, but I want to be useful & not a burden.

2) I'd like to improve my rogue skills, as I had lots of trouble using spot, search, disable running at lvl from about 15-24. I couldn't do them at all running on Elite or R1. I could only do them 1-2 lvls below. Since getting all the named gear though, I've had no probs at all, but all that stuff is lvls 26 - 30. That doesn't help me in in the mid range levels.

Thank you very much in advance :)
For trapping gear... Cannith Crafting, and constant watch with the auction house. Maybe even run challenges or some such.

mistress_minx
12-22-2018, 10:10 AM
I'll preface this by saying that gear is one of the biggest factors between being a strong character and a weak character. Check out this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzQkxvaQFxI) of me soloing quests on R1 with a first life melee character using top tier gear.

Build and past lives are both important; but IMO not as important as gear is, especially if you're a melee trapper.

If you're locked into wanting to do a barb/rogue greatsword build; then 18 barb /2 rogue is probably your best bet if you have the harper tree. You'll want most of your enhancement points in barbarian class trees; with a smattering in harper (for int to hit/damage) and mechanic (for +6 skills action boost) if you can afford the points. If you don't have harper for int to hit/damage, then you might want more rogue levels to have enough skill points to trap properly.

But if you're willing to try out new builds; you could consider things like 18 fighter/2 rogue greatsword + heavy armor, int based. Very similar to barbarian; but you'll have to rely on scrolls/potions/hirelings for healing, and it should be a bit tankier and dish out maybe a little more damage. Or a 20 rogue theif acrobat (light armor, quarterstaff, dexterity build)

I've played around with using quarter-staffs, 2 weapons, and a weapon with a shield, and I've found I am pretty locked on using great swords and great axes, primarily with vorpal. From time to time I will use a quarterstaff or great club. The great sword is so satisfying though, lol. I feel like one of those female warriors you see in all the fantasy art I like https://art.alphacoders.com/arts/view/64981. I do carry around a lot of pots, wands, and scrolls to help heal myself if the party is full so I can't bring a hire. I always put into my umd just for this reason, and so I can use rez scrolls on players or hires. The only thing I'm hard set on when it comes to class for now is that I want to be a melee tank, and be able to trap. So fighter may not be a bad idea. I know I'll eventually have to do classes such as cleric, ranger, wizard, etc to get completionist, but for now I'm sticking with that type of build while I become more comfortable and confident with the quests. I don't want to go in somewhere with a build that can't handle herself if I don't know which paths to take, and how to complete the quest. Running around aimlessly trying to figure out how to open a door when too squishy wouldn't be good :) I know, as I spent my 1st year playing doing exactly that, until I met a cpl players during this yr's CC event (we'd been trying to go at the challenge area by ourselves until someone sent a pm asking if we wanted to join them. We'd never run with other people before, but have been doing so since), who told me there was something wrong with my build and equipment for me to do so little damage, take so much damage, and not be able to trap as pure rouge. I'd never run with anyone but my husband until then, so had no idea what I was capable of. They guided me through using my lesser heart, and redoing my enhancement tree, and explained things like fort, and the fact that it did no good to have on 3 items with search as they don't stack, and I've been so much happier with her since then. I also end up going solo or with just the hubby a lot still, as nobody seems to want to do all the quests, just certain ones, and most parties skip the optionals. I sometimes enjoy the lesser run quests, and getting the opts. It's not always abt the named chest rewards or exp for me, but the adventure and fun as well.

mistress_minx
12-22-2018, 10:53 AM
There's also the problem that melee trappers, at least those not going primarily TA with quarterstaff, are easier done as something other than two-hander builds. Rangers (TWF Tempest/DWS - the "Tempest Trapmonkey" is a long-running concept for that) and bards (SWF Swashbuckler) with their better skill point allotments and stat-to-damage synergies, and even druid (wolf)...
I've been able to do all traps on elite on a first-life mostly-melee build all the way up to high epics... but it was a mostly-ranger thing, and since then that build (Tempest Warpriest) was hit particularly hard by the Ameliorating Strike nerf. Besides, maxing trap skill bonuses from enhancements to compensate for lack of gear meant a huge hit in melee effectiveness, but... well, priorities... 3 classes with relevant enhancements available and stacking (meaning not exactly alike) from each, and then racial too... oh well, reset enhancements when you get better gear and such.
Then again, with a 34/36 point Human (+1 skill point/level) or an Int-bonus race (+2 Int giving +1 skill point/level and +1 bonus to Int skills) and a +2 Int tome from 1750 favor once, you should be able to get enough skill points to make do anyway.
There's also the option of going 2 rogue / 18 barb, and if you happen to have a higher than +2 Int tome already and no fancy quarterstaves in the bank... well, I'm considering doing that one myself on a second life. Uneven Int tome (+3 from the cards the other year in my case) means the level 4 stat point goes in Int, and I figure I probably could get away with not using the Harper tree too if I play it smart.
Eh, strictly minmaxing for this, the human past lives should be slightly better. If you'd planned to do some sort of a complex character build (or a squishy caster) next that has problems surviving at low levels, then the barbarian.
Well, since rogue past lives don't help with skills... only saves and sneak damage...
For trapping gear... Cannith Crafting, and constant watch with the auction house. Maybe even run challenges or some such.

Yes, someone else suggested taking past lives of arti, paladin, ranger, warlock and cleric, which will help me to heal myself, and give me some resistance. Drow and elf look to be good first races, as suggested, followed by the dwarf and halfling. I ended up with 15 barb/5 rogue because I was having trouble with my spot, so had to take more lvls of rogue. I could search and disable just fine, but if I didn't already know where the traps were, I was in trouble. That's another reason why I want a non-squishy character right now; so I have a chance to get to know and memorize where these traps and secret doors are. I've gained some better equipment since I was lower lvl and having these probs, so hopefully they will help. I've also gained tomes since then through dice rolls, chests, and sagas. Right now my tomes equipped are (stats) +2 str, +2 con, +4 int, +1 char, and (skills) +3 spot, +3 balance, +3 disable, +3 spellcraft, +2 open lock, and + 1 for tumble, haggle, hide, and intimidate. These have all been gained since being over lvl 20, so I'll find out after TR how much they help out between 1-20. I've definitely started using the auction house in the past 4-5 mths, but I don't craft yet. One step at a time :) I have 2 players who are nice enough to make things for me when I need something though. I just tell them what I'm having problems with (such as spot), and give them whatever mats, shards, essences, etc that they ask me for. I've just been shown crafting in Thunderholme, and have begun gathering dragonscales now as well. I've definitely met some very helpful and generous players on my game world (and on here), as I know doing all this crafting for me takes time, as does explaining to me about the different crafting types, and showing me where they are. I will check out the items from challenges today, as you've suggested. I've never really run them, except Buying Time for mephit wings (guild, exp, and slayer pots). Thank you !

mistress_minx
12-22-2018, 11:06 AM
Check out this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzQkxvaQFxI) of me soloing quests on R1 with a first life melee character using top tier gear.

Holy cow ! I don't kill that fast even now :p And especially not at lvl 15 like you are in the video ! As for Reaper; I'm lvl 30 and can sometimes manage R1 depending on the quest. I might be able to do some on R2 if I'm lucky and the quest base is low enough, but I wouldn't dare go over that like a lot of people I've seen. I saw LFM's up around midnight - 3 am last night for R4 - R6 in RL, and I'm pretty sure you at lvl 24-30 would be able to hang with them doing those lvls no problem :) Nice !!!

PS : Sorry for posting so many replies. I haven't figured out how to quote multiple people in one reply yet :p I thought clicking "muli-quote" would do it, but apparently not :D

C-Dog
12-22-2018, 01:25 PM
When doing the reincarnation back from 20, does it make a difference if I go to 1, 7, or 15 for what my goals are ?
Yes.

First, know that Vet Status (4 & 7) is only for NEW characters, not for any form of reincarnation. Lots of people overlook that little detail.

You go back and choose 1 (Heroic) for TR (class past life) or RR (racial past life), and choose 15 for an Iconic PL plus a Class PL - both. With Iconic, you have to go to 30, but w/ Heroic you can reincarnate at 20 or keep going and get an Epic life (30 back to 20).

(Edit - deleted mistake)


I haven't figured out how to quote multiple people in one reply yet :p
Hit first quote, ctl+c (or ctl+x) what's on that page, go back ("leave page"), hit next quote, ctl+v below what you see, repeat as needed.

(Pro tip - editing the quoted text down to only the minimum for what you're replying to avoids WoT and TLDR responses, and generally keeps the post more focused, which never hurts. :cool: )

cdbd3rd
12-22-2018, 01:52 PM
....
PS : Sorry for posting so many replies. I haven't figured out how to quote multiple people in one reply yet :p I thought clicking "multi-quote" would do it, but apparently not :D



Hit first quote, ctl+c (or ctl+x) what's on that page, go back ("leave page"), hit next quote, ctl+v below what you see, repeat as needed. ...

"Multi-quote" should have worked, as I used that for this reply. You hit the "Multi-quote" button for any/all past posts you want copied in, then just "Reply with quote" on the last post you're replying to.

Breaking a longer quote down into separate blocks requires inserting your own [./quote] and [.quote] tags. (without the periods, of course)

mistress_minx
12-22-2018, 02:32 PM
Vet Status (4 & 7) is only for NEW characters, not for any form of reincarnation. Lots of people overlook that little detail. Iconics cannot choose the "30 back to 20" option, only Heroic. WoT and TLDR responses

Does that mean if I go Iconic once, I can only go Iconic every time after ? Or can I do Iconic for 3 lives then switch back to the other so I start at 20 or 1 again ? I have no idea what WOT or TLDR stand for :p


hit the "Multi-quote" button for any/all past posts you want copied in, then just "Reply with quote" on the last post you're replying to. Breaking a longer quote down into separate blocks requires inserting your own [./quote] and [.quote] tags. (without the periods, of course)

Ohhhhhh. Trying it on this, hopefully it works. Tyvm ! I was clicking multi on just one quote, assuming it would bring up other people's comments automatically as well :p I'm great at using the Internet for research and Facebook, and my Family Tree software on my pc, but use only basic Word, and don't believe I've ever used Excel or any of the other programs on my computer. I don't even know how to photoshop, lol

jskinner937
12-22-2018, 02:44 PM
I've played around with using quarter-staffs, 2 weapons, and a weapon with a shield, and I've found I am pretty locked on using great swords and great axes, primarily with vorpal. From time to time I will use a quarterstaff or great club.

If you prefer vorpals, try a repeater build with IPS. Since vorpals do not proc off glancing blows, even TWF is superior to THF for vorpal proc rate. And cleaves/great cleaves can be done on either THF or TWF.

I might also suggest you look at a wolf build. Something like 17D/2F/1R. You can use your two handlers you already have, can spam cleave/great cleave and your doublestrike and attack speed will be light years above a standard THF build. So your vorpal proc rate is ridiculous. Plus you are equipped with a lot more self healing.

jskinner937
12-22-2018, 02:51 PM
Does that mean if I go Iconic once, I can only go Iconic every time after ? Or can I do Iconic for 3 lives then switch back to the other so I start at 20 or 1 again ? I have no idea what WOT or TLDR stand for :p



Ohhhhhh. Trying it on this, hopefully it works. Tyvm ! I was clicking multi on just one quote, assuming it would bring up other people's comments automatically as well :p I'm great at using the Internet for research and Facebook, and my Family Tree software on my pc, but use only basic Word, and don't believe I've ever used Excel or any of the other programs on my computer. I don't even know how to photoshop, lol

First of all you can go iconic go to 30 and ER back to 20. What you can’t do is RTR or HTR at 20 on that life ever until you IR out of that iconic life, which only occurs at 30.

Secondly, no once you IR at 30 from an iconic life, you can resume to a normal life at 1 or Start another iconic life at 15. You won’t be stuck at all, you just have to go to 30 and choose either ER or IR. And just to clarify when you IR, you get both the Iconic past life and Heroic Class past life on your major class, so it’s a double past life feat granted in a sense. IMO it’s better to do your class lives as an iconic and do your epic lives with racial TRs.

Kenpai
12-22-2018, 03:52 PM
Does that mean if I go Iconic once, I can only go Iconic every time after ? Or can I do Iconic for 3 lives then switch back to the other so I start at 20 or 1 again ? I have no idea what WOT or TLDR stand for :p

WoT = Wall of Text. TLDR = Too Long, Didn't Read. In other words, massive paragraphs that are difficult to get information out of, which people stop caring about reading halfway through.

Whenever you do a non-Epic reincarnation, you can choose to start as a level 15 Iconic, or as a level 1 non-Iconic. You can freely alternate between Iconic lives and non-Iconic lives. Some restrictions are:
To Iconic Reincarnate (ie. if you are an Iconic character and want to start a new life) you need to be level 30 whereas True Reincarnation and Racial Reincarnations can be done at 20+.
When you start an Iconic life, your first level has to be in their respective class (ie. Bladeforged have to start as Paladin).

C-Dog
12-22-2018, 06:13 PM
First of all you can go iconic go to 30 and ER back to 20. What you can’t do is RTR or HTR at 20 on that life ever until you IR out of that iconic life, which only occurs at 30.
True, I stand corrected. Fixed above. (Not sure what I was thinking when I typed that :p)


Does that mean if I go Iconic once, I can only go Iconic every time after ?
Since that would, to a large extent, break the game for that character... really?


I have no idea what WOT or TLDR stand for :p
Most common acronyms used on these forums can be found here: https://ddowiki.com/page/Glossary

droid327
12-24-2018, 01:43 PM
Worth mentioning...

If you want to spend a little money to unlock it or buy the quest pack to earn the unlock, artificer also lets you do trapping....And it gives you bonuses to trapping skills and UMD for the past life, plus it has a melee enhancement tree that would fit a little better with great sword, though still not ideal...And some self healing, and another cleave...

mistress_minx
12-24-2018, 02:50 PM
Worth mentioning...

If you want to spend a little money to unlock it or buy the quest pack to earn the unlock, artificer also lets you do trapping....And it gives you bonuses to trapping skills and UMD for the past life, plus it has a melee enhancement tree that would fit a little better with great sword, though still not ideal...And some self healing, and another cleave...

That doesnt sound too bad. Thank you. Spending points on tomes and augment bags this week, so will definitely save up for that, though I have VIP and could possibly earn the favor for the unlock instead. Thank you !

Selvera
12-30-2018, 04:52 AM
Wow, I really should have checked back on this thread earlier.

You could theoretically just copy the build I did in that video and shoehorn in 1-2 levels rogue for trapping; but you'd run into skillpoint issues since it's a low-int build; so you'd have to remove some con to get more int and, as I said, the video is more a display of how good gear is for your character.

Or if you were interested in following up on that fighter/rogue idea; you could go with something like this:

FighterTrapper
18/2 Fighter/Rogue
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Fighter . . . .11. Fighter . . . .16. Fighter
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Fighter. . . . 12. Fighter. . . . 17. Fighter
3. Fighter. . . . .8. Fighter. . . . 13. Fighter. . . . 18. Fighter
4. Fighter. . . . .9. Fighter. . . . 14. Fighter. . . . 19. Fighter
5. Fighter. . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Fighter . . . .20. Fighter


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 17. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . .8. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 14. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .9. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT

Skills
. . . . . R .F .F .F .F .F .F .F .F .R. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . 16
Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . 16
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . 16
UMD . . . 4 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .1 .3 .2. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . .16
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . 2. 2. 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
Open Lo . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8
Listen. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Hide. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Move Si . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Haggle. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .52 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .8 .8 14 .8 .8 .8 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0
Max . . .52 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .8 .8 14 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Cleave
.2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
.3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.3 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
.5 Fighter: Great Cleave
.6. . . . : Weapon Specialization: Slashing
.7 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
.9. . . . : Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
.9 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
12 Fighter: Heavy Armor Master
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
15. . . . : Heavy Armor Combatant
16 Fighter: Heavy Armor Champion
18. . . . : Toughness
18 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing
20 Fighter: Heavy Armor Training
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Bulwark of Defense
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Tactical Supremacy
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements (80 AP)

Kensei (38 AP) Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge, One Cut Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
Tactics III, Weapon Group Specialization
Critical Mastery III, Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Strike III
Opportunity Attack, Weapon Group Specialization, Liquid Courage, Strike at the Heart
A Good Death: Melee, Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Deadly Strike, Keen Edge
Stalwart Defender (25 AP) Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance, Stand Fast Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III
Resilient Defense III, Armor Expertise III
Hardy Defense III, Constitution
Swift Defense, Reinforced Armor III
Harper Agent (17 AP) Agent of Good I, Intelligence Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat, Awareness III
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat, Intelligence

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste, Critical Damage III
(none)
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz
Twists of Fate (22 fate points) Wild Weapons (Tier 4 Fury)
Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
Technician (Tier 1 Shadowdancer)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

(Just a quickly thrown together build; I'm sure there's plenty of optimizations to be made. I don't know precisely your tomes or if you'd be able to get a workable DC with stunning blow or not. Stuff like epic toughness could be possible if you have a con tome, lower starting str if you have a str tome, and blinding speed is situational based on what gear you can work out to work well at cap.)

The idea behind this build is that you'd want to get int to hit/damage as soon as possible; then fill in Kensai. Spellpoints can be a problem for Know the Angles early on; but later you'll be able to easily slot on SP gems into your gear for 20 minutes of KTA per shrine or so.

It's quite possible that a strength-based variant on this with lower int could do well; getting higher tactics DC's and higher STR then is possible for int (Kensai and Stalwart defender can both give nice str boosts). But doing this could make your trapping skills lower. Not sure which balance is best for you.

mistress_minx
12-30-2018, 10:06 AM
Thank you for such an in depth and time consuming reply ! I very much appreciate it !

One of my alts is a crappy 12 Fighter/2 Rogue build right now, so I'll test this on her for use on my main when she does Fighter class for sure ! She has a lesser heart I was about to use on her anyways.

Christmas Eve I took the safe TR route, and my main's 3rd life is once again a Barb/Rogue, lol. But instead of 5 lvls Rogue, I'll be trying just 2, as everyone has suggested. She's also human again, just so she can finish out the racial reincarnation she's been doing.

I gained 4 character slots via the 2 expansions I just bought, so I will use those to try out some of these classes, races, and builds people have been nice enough to share ideas for (paladin, wizard, cleric, arti, ranger - drow, elf, halfling, dwarf, warforged). I've been scared of any spellcasting, as I assumed it would be complicated, so this will be a good way to get used to it before my main takes those classes, for sure. I also created an Iconic to test out using 2 weapons instead of 1.

I know I've been taking the safe route, and been stuck in my ways, with my weapons and classes (slowly dipping my toe in, instead of just jumping in fully) so I'm trying to rectify that so I can more fully experience everything this game has to offer. It was just difficult to do with no gear, and no plat for gear at the AH. Being on life 3 now means I'm stronger, and have the gear I need to start farming items to help with the other classes once I take them.

I also gained tomes with the expansions & saga rewards, and a bought stat one with the points in the store, so my applied tomes are now as follows :
6 for Str, Con, Int, Char, Dex, and Wis
3 for Balance, Jump, Disable, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, and Swim.
2 for Concentration, and Open Lock.
1 for Hide, Intimidate, Tumble, and Haggle
None for any others ..... yet

Selvera
12-30-2018, 06:55 PM
I also gained tomes with the expansions & saga rewards, and a bought stat one with the points in the store, so my applied tomes are now as follows :
6 for Str, Con, Int, Char, Dex, and Wis
3 for Balance, Jump, Disable, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, and Swim.
2 for Concentration, and Open Lock.
1 for Hide, Intimidate, Tumble, and Haggle
None for any others ..... yet

If you have a +6 Str tome; then you won't need so many points in starting strength (they were there as prerequisites for the THF feats), so you can start with a stat line that's a little sturdier and prettier if you want.

Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 13. . . .+6. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . .+6. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .+6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 13. . . .+6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

The total benefits to this would be +1 HP/level, +1 fortitude, +2 UMD, while the drawbacks are -2hit/-3 damage before you get int to hit/damage (should be around level 4 or 5) and -2 to the DC of stunning blow (if you take it). In all, pretty small changes across the board; but I feel like the higher con/cha stat spread is strictly better.

Another optimization due to tomes is you'd qualify for epic toughness. +50 HP isn't a top priority feat, but it may take precedence over the likes of bullwark of defense (if you find your saves are fine (or hopeless) without it), or Tactical Supremacy (again, if you're finding that you land every dire charge, or none of them, without it).

C-Dog
12-31-2018, 11:36 AM
...while the drawbacks are -2hit/-3 damage before you get int to hit/damage (should be around level 4 or 5)
If you beeline to Int to damage from Level 1, it's only 12 AP, so you'll have it at the end of Level 3. Just don't take anything except the minimum to start, and worry about any more than those 12 points later.