PDA

View Full Version : Switch the bonus from 3rd Racial TR with the 1st one



Miahoo
08-15-2018, 07:49 PM
Since I started playing DDO (8 years ago), DDO has changed. It used to be that DDO was about knowledge and skills, with some grind.
Lately, the game has become more and more about the grind, leading to more power creep that is inaccessible to newer players.

Racial TR was one of the final nails for the endgame content coffin, and most especially for new players. You get an insulting bonus for the 1st rtr, a nice ability point for the 2nd, and an awesome tree point for the 3rd. Making the triple rtr something very hard to pass up.

My suggestion is to switch the bonuses, so you get the racial tree point 1st, then the ability and the skill for the 3rd tr. This would make the power and benefits from these tr's far more accessible to new players, as well as returning players.

Thoughts?

Discpsycho
08-15-2018, 08:16 PM
I would sign this petition, but I think it's more realistic to have the Racial AP for RTR #1, the skill for #2, and the stat for #3.

Racial AP are really appealing for the vets and min-maxers, but also for the folks who want to try flavor builds. Performing a second RTR for the stat would also be universally appealing, but I don't think there are enough folks for whom Racial Completionist is worth another 11 TRs, and I feel like people who go through that many deserve an extra bone

Amundir
08-15-2018, 10:18 PM
Lately, the game has become more and more about the grind, leading to more power creep that is inaccessible to newer players.

Of course it's accessible. They just have to put in the time.
Also nothing about anything you get from RTR bonuses are a requirement for playing the game. They are nice bonuses that can increase your build options, but the game is not unplayable without them.
You put in the time, you get the rewards, you feel rewarded because you earned it.

cru121
08-16-2018, 01:55 AM
An alternative solution would be to give out racial AP for each third completed racial PL.
For example if I have 2 gnome lives, 1 human life and 3 dwarf lives, I would get 2 AP.

unbongwah
08-16-2018, 10:05 AM
An alternative solution would be to give out racial AP for each third completed racial PL.
For example if I have 2 gnome lives, 1 human life and 3 dwarf lives, I would get 2 AP.
Considering how everything in the codebase appears to be jury-rigged thru duct tape and wishful thinking, I shudder to imagine how many bugs would be introduced by trying to recode racial TRs at this point.

Right now I'd settle for not playing Russian Roulette with the TR cache every time I reincarnate.

Lagin
08-16-2018, 10:48 AM
Lately, the game has become more and more about the grind, leading to more power creep that is inaccessible to newer players.
Thoughts?



https://i.imgur.com/YJmYkiw.gifv



https://i.imgur.com/J9uD13y.gif

Hipparan
08-16-2018, 10:56 AM
I would sign this petition, but I think it's more realistic to have the Racial AP for RTR #1, the skill for #2, and the stat for #3.

Racial AP are really appealing for the vets and min-maxers, but also for the folks who want to try flavor builds. Performing a second RTR for the stat would also be universally appealing, but I don't think there are enough folks for whom Racial Completionist is worth another 11 TRs, and I feel like people who go through that many deserve an extra bone

I 100% agree with this. I have multiple characters and a lot of flavor builds that I want to use racial AP on (Elf Paladin with Fey Sight, Half-Elf Sorcerer with Greater Dragonmark of Storm, etc.). I dislike how this system seems to favor one type of player over another, kicking the alt-character-flavor-build-players to the curb.

However, I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of someone who has done all of that work to get all of those AP, only to find out they didn't really need to put in that much effort.

The skill bonus is laughably disappointing though. It should have been at least +2 to the respective skill.

Lagin
08-16-2018, 11:50 AM
In no way am against most of the marketing choices and direction SSG has gone. We're still here and so are they.

If my hamster wheel meme offend some of you, after you read my disclaimer above. Then its' all you.

As for the concept of people that go through the RTR wheel, no sir, as stated; there's too much power creep.

tafla421
08-16-2018, 12:23 PM
the way they implemented racial past lives make me think they meant it for those players that are already done with the other past lives to give them more things to grind so they keep playing so they spend more on the ddo store. while the shinies are desireable, to eliminate the grind kind of defeats the purpose of keeping the grindfest going. the sensible compromise might be to having a bonus days event where you get 2 for 1 heroic lives so new players can get a little help getting through the older parts of the grindfest

Arch-Necromancer
08-18-2018, 11:14 AM
Or maybe just allow a racial and heroic TR at once like it already exists with iconics?

That would reduce the grind new players need to catch up...

Discpsycho
08-18-2018, 12:05 PM
Or maybe just allow a racial and heroic TR at once like it already exists with iconics?

I'm...surprised at how appealing that sounds. That'd give people incentive to mix up their builds a little bit. HTRs don't have much oomph anymore, and RTRs only have power with successive ones

MrTrolol
08-18-2018, 12:18 PM
So a fat middle finger to everyone who has done 33 lives to get all the racial points? No, racial action points are too powerful to have done after doing one life of each race, this is a lazy request.

Iriale
08-19-2018, 07:29 AM
Since I started playing DDO (8 years ago), DDO has changed. It used to be that DDO was about knowledge and skills, with some grind.
Lately, the game has become more and more about the grind, leading to more power creep that is inaccessible to newer players.

Racial TR was one of the final nails for the endgame content coffin, and most especially for new players. You get an insulting bonus for the 1st rtr, a nice ability point for the 2nd, and an awesome tree point for the 3rd. Making the triple rtr something very hard to pass up.

My suggestion is to switch the bonuses, so you get the racial tree point 1st, then the ability and the skill for the 3rd tr. This would make the power and benefits from these tr's far more accessible to new players, as well as returning players.

Thoughts?
It's something I've been asking for since the first day. Devs really do not need to create abysses of power between powergamers and the rest of the players, and measures like front-loaded systems help this. And do not fear, there will be many people who will want to make the final 11 lives to get the complecionist. A free feat of complecionist is well worth those 11 useless lives.

Iriale
08-19-2018, 07:36 AM
So a fat middle finger to everyone who has done 33 lives to get all the racial points? No, racial action points are too powerful to have done after doing one life of each race, this is a lazy request.
not at all, they still have all the rewards, including the free feat of complecionist. And realistically, those who have rushed to do the grind so quickly would have done it equally for that feat. nobody loses anything with this proposal.

Miahoo
08-20-2018, 11:18 AM
So a fat middle finger to everyone who has done 33 lives to get all the racial points? No, racial action points are too powerful to have done after doing one life of each race, this is a lazy request.

The reward is too powerful to give it for a pure grind mechanic. No skills involved, its all pure time consuming.
Why did people rage and asked for the melee's suvivability feat to be lowered? (One of the reasons:) They afraid the content will be adjusted around this feat - so lowering it to 25% will be more forgiving.
Same goes here, people who can't afford the time or can't stand the grind shouldn't be punished.

Most of the people (if not all) who did all the rtr lives would have done them anyway, even if it was like the suggestion in the OP.

MrTrolol
08-20-2018, 11:30 AM
The reward is too powerful to give it for a pure grind mechanic. No skills involved, its all pure time consuming.
Why did people rage and asked for the melee's suvivability feat to be lowered? (One of the reasons:) They afraid the content will be adjusted around this feat - so lowering it to 25% will be more forgiving.
Same goes here, people who can't afford the time or can't stand the grind shouldn't be punished.

Most of the people (if not all) who did all the rtr lives would have done them anyway, even if it was like the suggestion in the OP.

An MMO is farely time consuming if you want a good character in one, and those points are pretty dang strong and awarding them at the 3rd racial TR seems fair to me, making it the first TR reward could kick up powercreep a notch now that people could do 11 lives and have a powerful thing, this game awards grinding.

Miahoo
08-20-2018, 02:05 PM
An MMO is farely time consuming if you want a good character in one, and those points are pretty dang strong and awarding them at the 3rd racial TR seems fair to me, making it the first TR reward could kick up powercreep a notch now that people could do 11 lives and have a powerful thing, this game awards grinding.

DDO is not a regular MMO. It has a mature community (work + family).

tbh I would simply remove rtr all together, but I'm pretty sure most people don't agree with me.

Making it the 1st reward will make it so more people will be able to allow the time to get it, and it will lower the gap between a working-family man and a power gamer.

MrTrolol
08-20-2018, 02:08 PM
DDO is not a regular MMO. It has a mature community (work + family).

tbh I would simply remove rtr all together, but I'm pretty sure most people don't agree with me.

Making it the 1st reward will make it so more people will be able to allow the time to get it, and it will lower the gap between a working-family man and a power gamer.

With 100+ lives and many items that people want I would say DDO is pretty grindy, I don't agree with RTR either it just adds powercreep but making it an easy snag is too much for minimal effort.

Iriale
08-20-2018, 04:43 PM
DDO is not a regular MMO. It has a mature community (work + family).

tbh I would simply remove rtr all together, but I'm pretty sure most people don't agree with me.

Making it the 1st reward will make it so more people will be able to allow the time to get it, and it will lower the gap between a working-family man and a power gamer.
+1

janave
08-21-2018, 06:53 AM
I would maybe think about participating in this grind if this suggestion happens. Right now, I wont get started because I cannot allocate as much time as a well kept teenager. :)

I main a build that is perhaps the most penalized by not having enough r.ap, yes an elven AA. I could of course play the meta and be fine with ~60 aps as a shuriken build doing 2x as well as i could with a 90 aps AA setup...

I also agree how far DDO fell from the initial no-grind promise...that pretty much convinced me to play in the beginning.

PsychoBlonde
08-21-2018, 08:13 PM
Considering how everything in the codebase appears to be jury-rigged thru duct tape and wishful thinking, I shudder to imagine how many bugs would be introduced by trying to recode racial TRs at this point.

Right now I'd settle for not playing Russian Roulette with the TR cache every time I reincarnate.

You must spread reputation around before giving any more to unbongwah.

kain741
08-23-2018, 09:57 AM
My suggestion is to switch the bonuses, so you get the racial tree point 1st, then the ability and the skill for the 3rd tr. This would make the power and benefits from these tr's far more accessible to new players, as well as returning players.

Thoughts?

I think it makes far more sense to auto-grant all three tiers by just loading the character creator page for each race. Why work towards the best reward when you can get it instantly?

Miahoo
09-01-2018, 05:54 PM
I think it makes far more sense to auto-grant all three tiers by just loading the character creator page for each race. Why work towards the best reward when you can get it instantly?

Are we back to the DDO is not a work argument?
Your post basically proves my point.

janave
09-04-2018, 07:58 AM
Are we back to the DDO is not a work argument?
Your post basically proves my point.

There are a lot of players who cant see anything but black or white, see the general discussions on the related topics.

Front loading the action points is a superior system in every sense (i think it is a tie on exp pot sales too after all variables are factored in). It is in sync with accessible enough, yet hard to get the last few %, and that is reserved fro the most dedicated players. -> Leads to a far more balanced landscape.