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Raiztlin75
08-12-2018, 05:29 AM
First of all Hello Second i know that everyone says ek is subpar but i hate casting that said Im wanting to know if im on track with this build going into my 11th life and want a sorc pl and a wizzie if i can get this to perform in heroics on elite awesome reaper even better although i know reaper will be a stretch i have had luck with a swf fighter in reaper using https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/491276-Mourning-Sword-Fallen-Aasimar-Fighter and it worked well which is what lead me to think i could pull this off
If the build could use something i may have over looked please feel free to point it out. Also iirc spellcraft boosts spellpower does adding say impulse make the cleave from ek hit harder as well im looking at crafting a impulse item but didnt know if doing that would give more force damage on the cleave due to the way its written



12/6/2 Sorcerer/Fighter/Artificer
True Neutral Dragonborn


Level Order

1. Fighter 6. Fighter 11. Sorcerer 16. Sorcerer
2. Fighter 7. Artificer 12. Sorcerer 17. Sorcerer
3. Fighter 8. Artificer 13. Sorcerer 18. Sorcerer
4. Fighter 9. Sorcerer 14. Sorcerer 19. Sorcerer
5. Fighter 10. Sorcerer 15. Sorcerer 20. Sorcerer


Stats
32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 18 18 18 +6 4: STR
Dexterity 10 10 10 +6 8: STR
Constitution 16 16 16 +6 12: STR
Intelligence 10 10 12 +6 16: STR
Wisdom 8 10 10 +6 20: STR
Charisma 16 16 16 +6


Skills
F F F F F F A A S S S S S S S S S S S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Spellcr 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 3 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 22
Jump 2 1 1 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 13
Balance 2 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 11
Intim ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 1 1 10
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
8 3 3 3 3 3 6 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 5 5
Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Fighter: Single Weapon Fighting
2 Fighter: Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
3 : Cleave
4 Fighter: Combat Expertise
6 : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
6 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
9 : Weapon Specialization: Slashing
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing
15 : Quicken Spell
18 : Greater Single Weapon Fighting

1 Dragon : Draconic Ancestry: Black
Spells

Sorcerer
1. Jump (9), Shield (9), Mage Armor (10), Protection from Evil (11)
2. Blur (12), <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
3. Haste (14), Heroism (15), Displacement (17), <Any>
4. Dimension Door (16), Stoneskin (17), Fire Shield (19)
5. <Any>, <Any>
6. Tenser's Transformation (20)
Artificer
1. Enchant Armor* (7), Enchant Weapons* (7), <Any>
Enhancements (80 AP)

Eldritch Knight (Sorcerer) (29 AP)
• Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Acid, Spellsword II: Shock, Spellsword III: Flame
1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness III, Battlemage III
2. Improved Shield III, Light Armor Proficiency, Martial Training
3. Arcane Barrier III, Strength
4. Medium Armor Proficiency, Strength

Kensei (28 AP)
• Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought
1. Weapon Group Specialization, Exotic Weapon Mastery, Haste Boost III
2. Weapon Group Specialization, Ascetic Training: Conditioning III
3. Critical Mastery III, Weapon Group Specialization, Strength
4. Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart, Strength

Renegade Mastermaker (13 AP)
• Renegade Defender
1. Supporting Construction III, Toughness III
2. Kinetic Discharge III, Armor Mastery III

Battle Engineer (8 AP)
• Battle Engineer
1. Hand and a Half Training, Thaumaturgical Conduits III
2. Hand and a Half Training

Dragonborn (2 AP)
• Hardy
1. Draconic Visage I

Hjarki
08-12-2018, 09:14 AM
Sorcerer-based melee really doesn't work that well. It's hard - to the point of impossible - to imagine a Sorcerer-based melee that doesn't work better as a Wizard. I wouldn't think of your goal here as making a decent build, but rather making a build with the bare minimum (8) levels of Sorcerer that isn't too crippled by those Sorcerer levels - and getting out of that build at 20 for the past life.

So you might consider something like so:

8/6/6 Sorcerer/Ranger/Rogue
True Neutral Gnome


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Ranger . . . . 11. Rogue . . . . .16. Sorcerer
2. Ranger. . . . . 7. Rogue. . . . . 12. Ranger. . . . .17. Sorcerer
3. Rogue . . . . . 8. Ranger . . . . 13. Sorcerer . . . 18. Sorcerer
4. Ranger. . . . . 9. Rogue. . . . . 14. Sorcerer . . . 19. Sorcerer
5. Rogue . . . . .10. Ranger . . . . 15. Sorcerer . . . 20. Sorcerer


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .6. . . .+8. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+8. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 14. . . .+8. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . .+8. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . 15. . . .+8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . .Rg Rn Rg Rn Rg Rn Rg Rn Rg Rn Rg Rn Sr Sr Sr Sr Sr Sr Sr Sr
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . . .5. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Disable . 4 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 1. 1. 1. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 21
Spot. . . 4 . . 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Listen. . . . . . .3. 1 .5. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Jump. . . 4 . . . .3. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . .5. . .4. . .2. . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Balance . 4 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
Tumble. . 4 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
Concent . . .5. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
Bluff . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .½. 1 .½. . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Diplo . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Intim . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .52 12 14 13 15 13 15 14 16 14 16 15 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 13


Feats

.1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.3. . . . : Precision
.6. . . . : Dodge
.9. . . . : Quicken Spell
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Heighten Spell
21 Epic . :
24 Epic . :
26 Destiny:
27 Epic . :
28 Destiny:
29 Destiny:
30 Epic . :
30 Legend :

.2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
10 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vistani Knife Fighter (42 AP) Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Knife Master Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost III
Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Intelligence
Vistani Knife Training, Celerity, Mist Stalker, Double Daggers, Intelligence
Vistani Knife Training, Blessed Blades, Vendetta
Gnome (13 AP) Gnomish Perserverance, Intelligence, Gnomish Perserverance II, Intelligence II, Retain Scroll Essence (none)
Color Spray III
Illusion Focus III
Harper Agent (12 AP) Agent of Good I, Intelligence Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat
Tempest (12 AP) Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III
Storm Dancer
Deepwood Stalker (1 AP) Far Shot

Note that Tempest T5 is generally a better choice, but the Gnome/VKF/Harper AP are prioritized so you wouldn't hit it until you were just about ready to TR.

This is what might be termed a 'TR build'. You've got a basic framework of 6 Rogue/6 Ranger that delivers decent damage and trapping. The Gnome lets you blind/stun enemies reasonably well. The Harper lets you focus on Intelligence and get additional damage on attacks. Vistani Knife Fighter grabs you all the features you really need from your weapon (improved critical profile, improved attack rate, etc.). Essentially, those 12 levels are a self-contained melee build that functions very effectively.

Then you just paste on 8 levels of whatever. The whatever in this case is Sorcerer. While there are some useful features from Sorcerers (Displacement comes to mind), you don't actually need any of them to be successful.

Enoach
08-12-2018, 09:38 AM
First I'm going to try and clarify a point on the EK tree. The issue with the EK tree is that it does not stand on its own. It is however, a good subordinate tree to a primary tree of a melee/range class. I say this as one that has been running a 12/8 Ftr/Wiz using the AA/EK trees.

This is hopefully going to change with the Wizard/Sorcerer Pass with hopes that they add the spell power scaling similar to what was done with the AA's elemental imbues.

---
Now I'm going to disagree that Sorcerer's don't mix well for melee. Mind you at this time the synergy of the PDK racial using Charisma with Swords is really nice, other races like Dragonborn and even Aasimar have their advantages for this type of build.

The disadvantage of the Sorcerer mix over Wizard is spell availability, depending on your split between caster class and melee class will determine not only the spell level but number of spells.

The advantage of the Sorcerer is multiple elemental sla choices for cheap spells and the spell point pool.

---
Advice: Don't look towards melee DPS as your primary goal. Look towards secondary effects and don't neglect what your spells can do for you.

IE at low levels the use of Hypnotism to make the fight more in your favor by having the rest stand there and watch, or later when you have access to AoE lingering damage effects, or Cloud spells. Don't discount charms and holds as these are your counterparts to stuns and trips.

Basically, don't think of your spell points as buffs only but consider the ability to enhance your melee prowess even if it is simply to negate the mobs melee prowess.

HuneyMunster
08-12-2018, 02:59 PM
I would take an Artificer level earlier and get extend instead of combat expertise. Would be useful for extended Displacement, Rage and Haste. You can then take cleave with fighter feat instead.

unbongwah
08-12-2018, 06:10 PM
Do you have Warforged? They would be a better choice for a melee sorc to bang out a past life.

We have a few threads about arcane melee builds (mostly ftr / wiz):

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/476982-The-Arcane-Warrior-3-different-builds
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/481700-Wraith-THF-Centered-Build-Works-for-First-Lifers
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/477252-March-of-the-Bladesingers!

Katalissa
10-19-2018, 03:09 AM
I would say:

1. I Agree with the above post - drop combat expertise for either extend for longer buffs, or take great cleave for two cleaves on seperate timers - with the basic EK cleave you have 3 cleaves on seperate timers and can pretty much constant cleave if you want.

2. Forget about Mage Armor as a spell. The +4 bonus doesn't stack with other armor anyway, plus once you have Improved Mage Armor you don't need it. The main benefit of Improved Mage Armor is the +10% to AC, which stacks, and being a percentage increases along with your base AC. Same issue with Shield spell and the Improved Shield SLA. You can't use both.

3. What armor are you planning to wear - medium? heavy? I don't see any other T5 enhancements, so if you can put another 3 points into EK T5 Still, you can get 0% arcane spell failure with heavy armor. Maybe drop the Battlemage enhancements for it, or less points into Arcane Barrier? Or do you have an ASF reducing augment available?

4. Finally, it's worth at least taking a look at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/462314-Gwhyn-build-melee-wizard-EK for a somewhat tankier version of what you're doing here. One big problem with melee-casters in general is lack of HP, especially at higher levels. Fighter levels will help some, but I fear this build might end up somewhat squishy, albeit with better DPS from Kensei. I guess you can always re-spec those enhancements if you find it to be the case.

Tlorrd
10-19-2018, 06:15 PM
A build I once did when cap was 25 I think was

12/x/x

With T5 eldritch knight for tempest
12 wiz for wraith form

25% incorporeal and 50% displacement give 62.5% miss chance without any dodge, which is icing on cake.

Great CC spells like sleet storm and others that don't have a save

Tempest T5 and lay waste, you can knock down groups of mobs and clean them up with momentum swing and a few cleaves.

Self heal as pale master.

Its definitly not FOTM, but very serviceable as a solo build mixing might and magic for elites or R1.

...


I've also done a monk EK build for shadow veil and displacement

As the saying goes ... offense is exciting but defense wins championships.

Raiztlin75
01-16-2019, 05:02 AM
With the new update to EK is there now a viable EK build full on sorc/wizard or are we still multi classing

FuzzyDuck81
01-16-2019, 05:47 AM
With the new update to EK is there now a viable EK build full on sorc/wizard or are we still multi classing

Don't know about sorcerer yet but I've had a lot of fun with a pure wizard warforged EK, will update later with more details but the core things i can remember off the top of my head at work:
- 2hander line (g2hf at 21 thanks to BAB issues)
- adamantine body (requires inscribed armour at low to mid levels until the EK ASF reduction cores catch up)
- quicken, extend, maximise, heighten
- precision
- mental toughness
- toughness & epic toughness
- construct exemplar
- wellspring of power
- spell penetration
- dire charge
- scion of fire
- enhancement lines are exclusively racial, EK & harper... racial include the memories of the last war ones for spellpower & melee power, harper for int to hit & damage plus a couple of other things & was just able to cram in throat dagger (range is limited by the stance but it does good physical damage, is boosted by kinetic crit chance & disables enemy casting

didn't actually take power attack & cleave since i've already got good methods to attack multiple enemeies (aoe spells) & a couple of cleave-type attacks from enhancements (and I'm not using those attacks from dreadnaught or even that destiny at all), also I remember I ditched improved critical too once I capped since I didn't bother to take overwhelming criticals & legendary echo of blackrazor (my primary weapon) has keen built-in anyway - the weapon style line was more important overall than these since it boosts survivability through epic defensive fighting stance.

The trick I've found so far with them is not to over-focus on the melee capabilities since you'll be getting a significant impact from your spells, but not to neglect them either - embrace the hybrid approach :)

Zretch
01-17-2019, 01:11 PM
With the new update to EK is there now a viable EK build full on sorc/wizard or are we still multi classing

EK wizard with Pale Master (for self healing and wraith form defense) is extremely viable.
EK sorcerer lacks Cha to damage unless you want to go PDK. It also lacks self heal unless you want to go war/blade forged. Either way, sorc AoE hits really, really hard in heroics so all you're really looking for out of EK is enough melee DPS to efficiently clean up any trash that survives your opening volley.

So EK wizard is probably a bit more well rounded with the ability to splash into harper for Int to damage + KTA and pale master for healing. EK sorcerer may be better off using EK as more of a supplemental tree to replace going into a second elemental tree. (ex: rather than electricity / cold, you'd go electricity / EK and melee anything that was resistant/immune to electric)

adrian69
01-17-2019, 02:03 PM
EK wizard with Pale Master (for self healing and wraith form defense) is extremely viable.
EK sorcerer lacks Cha to damage unless you want to go PDK. It also lacks self heal unless you want to go war/blade forged. Either way, sorc AoE hits really, really hard in heroics so all you're really looking for out of EK is enough melee DPS to efficiently clean up any trash that survives your opening volley.

So EK wizard is probably a bit more well rounded with the ability to splash into harper for Int to damage + KTA and pale master for healing. EK sorcerer may be better off using EK as more of a supplemental tree to replace going into a second elemental tree. (ex: rather than electricity / cold, you'd go electricity / EK and melee anything that was resistant/immune to electric)

Yeah, I agree there are two and half spheres of thinking with EK build. Pure(or Purer) builds that focus on dice, T5 abilities, but makes the decision between focusing on melee or magic. I've read arguments from both side arguing for either being better than the other and each make good points, so I chalk it up to what the person is having the best fun or what fits their playstyle best. I.E., If your better at casting than melee, you'd still want too focus on the casting half and use melee to support it or viseversa. .
Then there is still using the EK tree (wizard primarily) to enhance a more meleeish build. 12 wizard 8 ftr and using the kensei t5s in example.

I've been looking 15 wizard/3 bard/2x 12 wizard/6 kensei/2x or 16 sorc/3 bard/1 FvS (maybe 2). I saw partied with a 17 sorc/3 bard in Old Bhabba the Hutt last night and he was just awesome, so I know it works, at least with Ender's Set.

If anyone has videos of Leg. Game Play I'd love a link.

Hjarki
01-19-2019, 02:21 AM
The two approaches I'd use:

Pure Eldritch Knight
- Capstone in a Savant (probably Earth) and 31+ points in Eldritch Knight (5 cores + T5). This maximizes your spellpower/critical while preserving the ability to break immunities.
- Don't worry too much about physical damage. The point of the melee is to deliver Spellsword + Scion damage and set up all the other melee-related effects (additional spellpower, Fetters of Unreality, etc.)
- Warforged/Bladeforged allows taking Beacon of Magic + Heavy Armor (as well as self-healing). However, there aren't AP to spend on racial enhancements unless you've got racial AP. If you've got at least 1 racial AP, you can go with PDK for Cormyrean Knight Training. However, the CKT weapons are a bit limiting.
- Either Magister or Draconic Incarnation for Destiny. I prefer Magister since it allows taking caster level bonuses from both trees.
- Gear for raw spell dps and durability.

This is about as close as you'll get to maximum spell dps on a practical build, although it requires a much more in-your-face playstyle than Sorcerers tend to prefer.

Melee/Control-Focused Eldritch Knight
- 15/3/2 Sorcerer/Bard/Rogue or 16/3/1 Sorcerer/Bard/Favored Soul. The former gives you Evasion, the latter more damage and 8th level spells.
- You can use Hand Axes for 15-20/x4 (before Epic levels) critical profile. However, any finessable weapon would work.
- Damage spellcasting would be far more limited since you wouldn't have all that single school spellpower or the Savant tree to back you up. However, your spell DCs are likely better (due to Spellsinger) so control-focused casting will work better than the above approach.
- For Destiny, Legendary Dreadnought would probably be the best choice. The only arcane destiny that makes much sense would be Fatesinger. That being said, it would require some testing to see how effective the combination of Harmonic Resonance and Fragment of Valor would be (in theory, up to +65% Sonic and +15% Electric vulnerability). It's also questionable what state all the various buggy parts of Fatesinger are in. Note that even under ideal circumstances, Sonic damage spells would still be terrible compared to the post-Update 41 Electric ones.
- Race would probably be Human (for the feat), although AP aren't nearly as restricted as with the first build above. They would be restricted enough that heavy investment in Air Savant (the only Savant that makes much sense, despite the fact that when I last checked the caster level bonuses don't work for Bards in multi-class builds).

Most of the damage here would actually be melee, but you'd also have a good chance at landing the various control effects.

adrian69
01-20-2019, 03:04 AM
The two approaches I'd use:

Melee/Control-Focused Eldritch Knight
- 15/3/2 Sorcerer/Bard/Rogue or 16/3/1 Sorcerer/Bard/Favored Soul. The former gives you Evasion, the latter more damage and 8th level spells.
- You can use Hand Axes for 15-20/x4 (before Epic levels) critical profile. However, any finessable weapon would work.
- Damage spellcasting would be far more limited since you wouldn't have all that single school spellpower or the Savant tree to back you up. However, your spell DCs are likely better (due to Spellsinger) so control-focused casting will work better than the above approach.
- For Destiny, Legendary Dreadnought would probably be the best choice. The only arcane destiny that makes much sense would be Fatesinger. That being said, it would require some testing to see how effective the combination of Harmonic Resonance and Fragment of Valor would be (in theory, up to +65% Sonic and +15% Electric vulnerability). It's also questionable what state all the various buggy parts of Fatesinger are in. Note that even under ideal circumstances, Sonic damage spells would still be terrible compared to the post-Update 41 Electric ones.
- Race would probably be Human (for the feat), although AP aren't nearly as restricted as with the first build above. They would be restricted enough that heavy investment in Air Savant (the only Savant that makes much sense, despite the fact that when I last checked the caster level bonuses don't work for Bards in multi-class builds).

Most of the damage here would actually be melee, but you'd also have a good chance at landing the various control effects.

Yeah, I've been toying around with this idea for about 2 weeks. Went Earth instead, but they all have some merit, and electric isn't off the table. Fire is promising too. 4 AP in AoV gets you scourge. You already have 3-4 effects in EK to keep up by spell-casting, may as well add another. It's +30 SP to fire, force, and PSP. Probably will not make any final decisions until I play test it sometime soon.

Warlocks should have an EK tree too. It would really synergize with ES tree.

12 Wizard/8 Wolf is also something I've been messing with.

Dungotrealdum
16/3/1 Sorcerer/Bard/Favored Soul
Chaotic Good Dragonborn


Level Order

1. Bard. . . . . . 6. Sorcerer. . . .11. Sorcerer. . . .16. Sorcerer
2. Bard. . . . . . 7. Sorcerer. . . .12. Sorcerer. . . .17. Sorcerer
3. Bard. . . . . . 8. Sorcerer. . . .13. Sorcerer. . . .18. Sorcerer
4. Sorcerer . . . .9. Sorcerer . . . 14. Sorcerer . . . 19. Sorcerer
5. Sorcerer . . . 10. Sorcerer . . . 15. Sorcerer . . . 20. Favored Soul


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .+8. . . .4: CHA
Dexterity . . . 13. . . .+8. . . .8: CHA
Constitution. . 16. . . .+8. . . 12: CHA
Intelligence. . 10. . . .+8. . . 16: CHA
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 20: CHA
Charisma. . . . 20. . . .+8. . . 24: CHA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA

Skills
. . . . . B .B. B .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .F
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Spellcr . 4 .1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 23
Concent . 4 .1. 1 . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 21
UMD . . . 4 .1. 1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 14
Balance . 4 .1. 1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .17 .4. 4 .3 .3 .2 .4 .2 .4 .2 .4 .2 .4 .2 .4 .2 .4 .2 .4 .2
Max . . .24 .7. 7 .3 .3 .3 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .5 .5 .5 .5 .5 .5


Feats

.1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Power Attack
.6. . . . : Maximize Spell
.9. . . . : Quicken Spell
12. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
18. . . . : Empower Spell
20 Swap. .: Precision replaces Power Attack
21 Epic . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Wellspring of Power
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Harbinger of Chaos OR Deific Warding
30 Epic . : Burst of Glacial Wrath
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Earth OR Arborea OR Plane of Air

.1 Dragon : Draconic Ancestry: Black

20 Deity. : Follower of: Onatar


Spells

Sorcerer Acid Bolt (4), Magic Missile (4), Ray of Enfeeblement (5), Acid Spray (6)
Melf's Acid Arrow (7), Gust of Wind (8), Knock (10), Web (12)
Displacement (9), Acid Blast (10), Chain Missiles (12), Haste (14)
Acid Rain (11), Burning Blood (12), Dimension Door (14), Force Missiles (16)
Cloudkill (13), <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Tenser's Transformation (15), Otiluke's Freezing Sphere (16), Chain Lightning (18)
Prismatic Spray (17), Mass Hold Person (18)
Polar Ray (19)
Bard <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Favored Soul <Any>, <Any>

Enhancements (79+12 of 80+12 AP)

Eldritch Knight (Sorcerer) (39 AP) Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon II
Improved Shield III, Mystic Wards III, Spellpower Boost III, Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Arcane Barrier, Eldritch Accuracy, Synergetic Magic
Knight's Transformation, Force's Point
Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III
Swashbuckler (19 AP) Confidence, Swashbuckling On Your Toes III, Blow By Blow: Melee II
En Pointe III
Arcane Marauder, Resonant Arms III, Smooth Flourishes
Earth Savant (13 AP) Earth Savant, Earth Affinity, Greater Earth Affinity Acid Spray III, Spell Critical, Erosion III
Spell Critical
Dragonborn (12 AP) Hardy, Charisma, Hardy II, Charisma Hard Scales III
Harder Scales III
War Soul (4 AP) Smite Foe: Melee Divine Presence III
Warchanter (4 AP) Skaldic: Constitution Rough and Ready III

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost I, Constitution
Constitution
Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop

Hjarki
01-20-2019, 06:02 AM
Yeah, I've been toying around with this idea for about 2 weeks. Went Earth instead, but they all have some merit, and electric isn't off the table. Fire is promising too. 4 AP in AoV gets you scourge. You already have 3-4 effects in EK to keep up by spell-casting, may as well add another. It's +30 SP to fire, force, and PSP. Probably will not make any final decisions until I play test it sometime soon.

Two key issues I always try to keep in mind:

1. You have to cast on a regular basis to keep all those "on spellcast" features alive.
2. You have to cast something worth giving up your melee damage for.

A spell like Acid Spray just isn't going to be able to do enough damage to justify the interruption in your melee. In all likelihood even Acid Rain isn't going to measure up unless you've got a ton of targets or pre-cast it. So you're far more likely to get good use out of control-oriented spells on a multi-class build - especially considering how many spell levels you're losing over a pure build. Consider the first build I outlined. It would have almost double the caster levels of the multi-class build in all likelihood and access to level 9 spells. In practice, this probably means that its Acid Well would be doing 4 - 5 times the damage of anything a multi-class build could toss out.

Some other notes:

- Skirmisher is the standard for Swashbuckler because it adds a pile of Doublestrike/PRR and additional shield bash attacks. There really isn't much reason to bother with Swashbuckler if you're not going to be using Skirmisher.

- Spellsinger has one of those 'control-oriented' spells as an SLA (Sonic Blast) that allows you to throw it around cheaply and regularly. Spellsinger also provides up to +3 DC for relatively cheap. If you can afford the AP/levels to get into 4th tier, it also provides +1 caster level, +3 Spell Penetration and a constantly ticking heal.

- The rationale for Air is because you need Electric/Sonic spells to pump up Electrocution. In contrast, Earth may have some nifty options, but they're almost entirely either long-lasting spells (don't cast them frequently enough) or pure damage spells that lose you dps by reducing the amount of melee damage you do. With Bard, you've got the aforementioned Sonic Blast. If you take 4 levels of Bard, you also have Soundburst (which is admittedly a bit tricky to land with both a Fort save and SR). Potentially Resonant Arms is on the table, which delivers the equivalent of another 2 Spellsword dice of Sonic (which is boosted by Air).

- In theory, you could play Scourge with Lightning Coil. However, this would require an enormous number of racial AP to make work.

- A multi-class build will inherently develop more slowly than a pure build. Couple this with the fact that Swashbuckler builds are very much late-game builds in most cases and the focus would need to be an endgame (which limits some considerations like the exceptional Hand Axes in the teens).

My latest tinkering (which I'm not fully satisfied with):

15/4/1 Sorcerer/Bard/Favored Soul
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Bard. . . . . . 6. Sorcerer. . . .11. Sorcerer. . . .16. Sorcerer
2. Sorcerer . . . .7. Bard. . . . . .12. Sorcerer. . . .17. Sorcerer
3. Favored Soul. . 8. Sorcerer. . . .13. Sorcerer. . . .18. Sorcerer
4. Sorcerer . . . .9. Bard. . . . . .14. Sorcerer. . . .19. Sorcerer
5. Bard. . . . . .10. Sorcerer. . . .15. Sorcerer. . . .20. Sorcerer


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . .4: CHA
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+8. . . .8: CHA
Constitution. . 14. . . .+8. . . 12: CHA
Intelligence. . 15. . . .+8. . . 16: CHA
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 20: CHA
Charisma. . . . 18. . . .+8. . . 24: CHA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA

Skills
. . . . . B .S .F. S. B .S .B. S. B .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S
. . . . . 1 .2 .3. 4. 5 .6 .7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 4 . . . . . 4 . . 2 . . 2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Heal. . . 2 . . 4 .1 . . 2. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Bluff . . . .5 . . 2. . .1 . . 3. 1 . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .2 .23
UMD . . . 4 . . . . . 4 . . 2 . . 2 .½ .1½ 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Diplo . . . . . 3 . . . . . 5 . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
Balance . 4 . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Hide. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Concent . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .36 .6 .7. 7 11. 7 11. 7 11. 7. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9


Feats

.1. . . . : Force of Personality
.1 Human. : Single Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Shield Mastery
.6. . . . : Improved Shield Bash
.9. . . . : Quicken Spell
12. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
18. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
21 Epic . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
24 Epic . : Spell Focus: Evocation
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Precision
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior
30 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
30 Legend : Scion of: Feywild

.3 Deity. : Follower of: The Blood of Vol


Spells

Sorcerer Sonic Blast (2), Jump (2), Tumble (4), Magic Missile (6)
Gust of Wind (8), Electric Loop (10), Knock (12), Web (14)
Displacement (11), Lightning Bolt (12), Sleet Storm (14), Halt Undead (16)
Dimension Door (13), Ice Storm (14), Charm Monster (16), Fire Shield (18)
Ball Lightning (15), Teleport (16), Eladar's Electric Surge (18), Cyclonic Blast (20)
Chain Lightning (17), Greater Heroism (18), True Seeing (20)
Otto's Sphere of Dancing (19), Mass Hold Person (20)
Bard Focusing Chant (1), Detect Secret Doors (5), Feather Fall (7)
Soundburst (9), Glitterdust (9)
Favored Soul Cure Light Wounds (3), Divine Favor (3)

Enhancements (80 AP)

Eldritch Knight (Sorcerer) (39 AP) Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III
Improved Shield III, Spellpower Boost III
Eldritch Accuracy, Synergetic Magic, Charisma
Knight's Transformation, Shield Striking II, Force's Point, Charisma
Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III
Swashbuckler (19 AP) Confidence, Swashbuckling On Your Toes II, Insults: Scathing Words III
En Pointe III
Skirmisher, Resonant Arms III, Smooth Flourishes
Spellsinger (12 AP) Spellsinger, Music of the Sewers Studies: Musical II, Sonic Blast III
Reverberate I, Marigold Crown: Violet
Spell Song Trance
Air Savant (7 AP) Air Savant, Air Affinity Spell Critical, Electrocution III
War Soul (3 AP) Smite Foe: Melee Divine Presence II

Destiny (24 AP)

Fatesinger Allure III, Music of the Spider Queen, Charisma
Charisma
Reign III, Echoes of Arcane, Charisma
Charisma
Fragment of Clarity I, Fragment of Valor II, Charisma
Charisma
Twists of Fate (26 fate points) Energy Burst: Electricity (Tier 4 Draconic)
Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
School Specialist: Evocation (Tier 2 Magister)
Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)

In principle, 5d8 Electric (+15%), 6d6 (30% of the time, +65%) and 2d20 Sonic (+65%) would yield 70.92 average magical damage/attack, slightly above the 66.5 average magical damage/attack from a pure Eldritch Knight (the pure Eldritch Knight would have more spellpower to counterbalance this minor advantage). Being able to roll Reverberate and Eladar's on a single target with those extra damage bonuses would keep everything alive while doing some hefty damage (Reverberate is ordinarily dramatically inferior to Eladar's, especially given the disparity in levels, but the extra +50% goes a long way to make it up).

That being said, I haven't tried out the new Fatesinger at all and there is some clunkiness I don't like. Stylistically, Tornado is a perfect fit but I'm a bit cautious of an endgame build without a Fetters of Unreality weapon right now. It's also hard to guess whether the spell points would hold out. -15% costs and Sorcerer spell points goes a long way, but pounding away with Quicken'd Soundbursts eats through resources fast. Scrounging up the 6 AP for reduced cost on Quicken is tricky as well - dumping Resonant Arms is the most tempting place, but that probably loses 30 - 40 damage/attack (and significantly more with En Pointe and Eldritch Tempest)

Vs. Legendary Dreadnought, I think it's a toss-up. Against trash, LD would probably be better due to the combination of bonus helpless damage and extra critical multiplier on 19-20. Against bosses, where the stacking vulnerabilities could come into play, I'm not entirely sure. You've got another 3% haste, 21 magical damage/attack (before spellpower), 5 additional caster levels, and +8 Charisma. If Reign scaled off of spellpower, it would be no contest (Reign will deliver an average of ~32 non-scaling magical damage/attack). Sadly, it does not.

My suspicion is that this is one of those "really cool, but not quite there" builds.

adrian69
01-20-2019, 05:15 PM
My latest tinkering (which I'm not fully satisfied with):

My suspicion is that this is one of those "really cool, but not quite there" builds.

I'm about the same, but nothing is off the table until I tinker with it at this point and see how it works. Alternates are just indecisiveness or a reminder I was thinking of trying Air. I was going to write it up in Air Savant first, but Air Savant is missing as a choice in the planner and I got to figure out why.

I was just thinking about something that was spammable every 6 seconds and DoTs versus bosses, and good points, but I'm going to try Fire/Air too. I grouped with a guy running 17 sorc/3 bard and Dashing Scoundrel a week ago in Old Baba's Hut Elite and I was super surprised that he had about 65% of the kill count. I'd like ISM, but I don't know what I'd give up other than BoGW atm.

Hjarki
01-21-2019, 03:28 PM
I'm about the same, but nothing is off the table until I tinker with it at this point and see how it works. Alternates are just indecisiveness or a reminder I was thinking of trying Air. I was going to write it up in Air Savant first, but Air Savant is missing as a choice in the planner and I got to figure out why.

Air Savant just seems to 'fit'. It has one of the few single target spells worth casting in this sort of build (Eladar's), it boosts the Sonic spells/damage that work with Fatesinger (if you choose to go that way), Fatesinger is an Electric/Sonic tree, and Air Savant hits all the key notes for the build in terms of DC/supplemental buffs. If you're going to 4th core or T5, it has the best supplemental abilities (Vulnerability, leaping) there as well. However, it's overall spell complement - especially in terms of AE - is rather poor.


I was just thinking about something that was spammable every 6 seconds and DoTs versus bosses, and good points, but I'm going to try Fire/Air too. I grouped with a guy running 17 sorc/3 bard and Dashing Scoundrel a week ago in Old Baba's Hut Elite and I was super surprised that he had about 65% of the kill count. I'd like ISM, but I don't know what I'd give up other than BoGW atm.

Without seeing the build, it's hard to judge. But I don't see much rationale for such a breakdown. 17 Sorcerer really doesn't get much while 4 Bard or 3/1 Bard/FvS are both strong choices. Are you sure he wasn't running 17 *Wizard*/3 Bard?

If you are running Arcane Marauder, an alternative would be to pick up EWP:Khopesh and Heavy Armor proficiency. You'd have Charisma to hit/damage while SWF and +1/+1 critical from Knight's Transformation.