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View Full Version : Bring howl of terror in line with the other innate abilities



Maelodic
06-03-2018, 01:14 AM
The level 18 core incentiveses it's use, just like the level 18 core incentiveses the use of the bear equivalent spell tremors.

In its current incarnation it's unusable competitively for both pure melees and wolf hybrids:

No druid is going to boost enchantment school
No melee druid is going to add spell pen, add most caster druids don't touch it either.
Every other innate ability scales on str and wisdom (or spot) making them accessible to both hybrids and pure melee wolves.

Howl is an awesome ability. Don't make your level 18 core useless for melee druids. Increase the cool down if you need to, but let me use a str based howl, and give caster wolves another tool since they miss out on mantle.

PsychoBlonde
06-03-2018, 09:29 AM
Nah.

Will saves are WAY lower than other saves (except on a very few casters that you're going to destroy with your other abilities anyway) late in the game, and Howl makes enemies helpless. The 18 core isn't based on the howl *hitting*, just you *casting* it. If you want to use it significantly, do a wis build.

I use color spray at legendary levels on my arti even though I have NOTHING toward illusion stuff so it's a good 20 points of DC behind my other spells, and it lands perfectly well. So you don't even have to devote that much effort into it.

Maelodic
06-03-2018, 09:46 AM
Nah.

Will saves are WAY lower than other saves (except on a very few casters that you're going to destroy with your other abilities anyway) late in the game, and Howl makes enemies helpless. The 18 core isn't based on the howl *hitting*, just you *casting* it. If you want to use it significantly, do a wis build.

I use color spray at legendary levels on my arti even though I have NOTHING toward illusion stuff so it's a good 20 points of DC behind my other spells, and it lands perfectly well. So you don't even have to devote that much effort into it.

Howl does not make enemies helpless. Neither does tremor.

Color spray uses int which is a common main stat for a gnome, can cause helpless, doesn't have spell resistance,and costs very little. A standard melee wolf won't be investing enough in wis to make howl hit reliably and it's not worth using without the cc for just 10% ds short term since you have to stop and cast it. This makes the level 18 core on a melee tree useless for melees on a recently revamped tree.

PsychoBlonde
06-03-2018, 10:47 AM
Howl does not make enemies helpless. Neither does tremor.

Color spray uses int which is a common main stat for a gnome, can cause helpless, doesn't have spell resistance,and costs very little. A standard melee wolf won't be investing enough in wis to make howl hit reliably and it's not worth using without the cc for just 10% ds short term since you have to stop and cast it. This makes the level 18 core on a melee tree useless for melees on a recently revamped tree.

So do a non-standard build. Pretty much every class has to pick between doing maximum damage and having max CC. That's just how it is. You can't always have everything. Take a level of favored soul to get Divine Will, and do a wis build.

Maelodic
06-03-2018, 02:07 PM
So do a non-standard build. Pretty much every class has to pick between doing maximum damage and having max CC. That's just how it is. You can't always have everything. Take a level of favored soul to get Divine Will, and do a wis build.

By picking 18 druid you're already picking the druid goodies (heals and cc) over maximum damage (a dedicated melee class)

The rest of the druid class changes brought all innate abilities in line for melee druids to use. They even removed the save from cold breath.

It's entirely possible that we're not going to agree on this, which is totally fine.