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Cocomajobo
03-27-2018, 03:15 PM
NOTE:
This color means a that this thing was not in the first preview.
This color means that this thing was in the first preview.


GENERAL CHANGES

Wild Shape

Animal forms (Wolf, Bear, Winter Wolf, and Dire Bear) will now use the stats of the player's main hand weapon for melee attack purposes, such as Base Damage, Critical Multiplier, Critical Range, all Enchantments, Material traits, procs, etc. The issue with the power level of certain effects not scaling will be resolved by this as well. Primal Avatar form and damage is “currently” not effected by theses changes for this build.
Existing combat style bugs are being fixed.

No combat style specific bonuses will function while in animal forms aside from Natural Fighting, and any bonuses native to the form (no dual wielding, shield bashes or single weapon attack speed).
Using a two-handed weapon still grants the 1.5 damage from your modifying stat, and Power Attack feat adjustments in animal form as well, for its additional bonus.
Shields still grant stat bonuses including armor class (but no shield bashes while in animal form)
Activated Attacks that require a specific weapon to be held in your hand will still not work in animal form (because sometimes these attacks have animation requirements) However things that modify your weapons base stats still work normally such as changing your primary damage stat.

Wolf form attack animations and movement speed has been adjusted.

We are reducing the Basic Wolf Form attack speed bonus to 20%. Winter wolf attack speed has been boosted to 35%. We are also fixing some flaky behavior in the attack chain.
All Wolf Speed increases now stacks with haste and other speed effects
Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid.

The Bear attack animation chain will be improved to make its attack rate match other weapon styles.

This will result in an approximate 15% increase in attack speed.
Bear form gains glancing blows as if it was using a two handed weapon. Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on
All animal forms (Wolf, Bear, Winter Wolf, and Dire Bear) now have an animation for reading a tome.
Wolf and Dire Wolf jump animations have been polished to remove hitching.
All animal forms (Wolf, Bear, Winter Wolf, and Dire Bear) have had their sit, kneel, and sleep animations polished
Weapons and shields should no longer erroneously display while in animal shape under certain conditions
Wolf and Bear shadows should now appear correctly if you log in with their Wild Shape already toggled on.
Bears should now apply visual effects from spells like Bark Skin correctly
Wolf and Winter Wolf forms have had a texture makeover
Water and Fire Elemental form will now grant 65% Absorption to their element, instead of Damage Reduction, and 15% Vulnerability to their opposite element. The bonus will not stack with Fire Shields or Fire Energy Sheath. Absorption from items and other abilities still work.
There is a new toggle feat that druids get at level 13 (with their first elemental body pick) that disables the textures for elemental forms





Specific Spell Changes


Wild Shape Spells

The following druid innate animal spells will now work regardless of rage, feeblemind, quell or anti magic.

Maul
Great Maul
Take Down
Pack Presence
Baiting Bite
Shred
Harrowing Pack
Rising Fury
Cold Breath
Tenacious Pack
Tremor
Jaws of Winter
Rising Fury
Relentless assault
Howl of Terror
Unstoppable
Snow Slide

Wolf Form Spells

Baiting Bite will now use your spot score for the bluff role. This is still considered a bluff skill check.
Take Down's cooldown increased to 8 seconds
Take Down no longer erroneously grants +4[W] and instead properly grants +2[W]
Take Down's DC scales with highest of STR,DEX, or WIS modifier.
Jaws of Winter is now a level 6 spell instead of a level 7 spell (This will require players who had it memorized before the update downtime to need to adjust their memorized spells)
Jaws of Winter DC scales with the higher of STR, DEX, or WIS modifier
The following Wolf Spells gain +1 Critical Damage Multiplier and Critical Threat Range

Baiting Bite
Jaws of Winter
Snowslide

Bear Form Spells

Rising Fury's cooldown will be reduced to 30 seconds
Rising Fury will now accept the "Extend Spell" Metamagic Feat
Tremor damage increased to 2[W] and correctly describes itself as an attack.
Tremor DC scales with the higher of STR or WIS modifier
Maul no longer erroneously grants +4[W] and instead properly grants +2[W]
Maul no correctly attempts an Intimidate check on the target.
Great Maul damage increased to +3[W]
The following Bear Spells gain +1 Critical Damage Multiplier and Critical Threat Range
Shred
Great Maul
Relentless Onslaught

Regular Spells

Reincarnate's casting time and cool down will be put on par with Raise Dead.[/INDENT]
Creeping Doom will now do acid damage and benefit form acid spell power. Each character can have their own copy of this dot on a target.
Enveloping Swarm has been re-designed as a single target instant application dot instead of a damage shield effect. Each character can have their own copy of this dot on a target. Target is enveloped by insects taking 2d8 acid damage + 1d8 for every 3 druid levels every 2 seconds for 16 seconds. SP Cost: 10 Meta Magics: Max, Intensify, Empower, Enlarge, Heighten Reflex save for half each tick
Produce Flame Projectile speed is being increased
Creeping cold and Greater creeping cold will now stack with each other when cast by other druids (two can each have their own copy on a target now)
Anger of the Noon Day Sun Creatures affected who were immune/resistant/healed by to fire now take full damage. Will not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%. -8% fortification
Mantle of Ice Creatures affected who were immune/resistant/healed by to cold now take full damage. Will not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%. 10% attack speed slow 25% movement speed slow -4 to fort/reflex saves
Elemental Toughness Target: Self DR removed. Now grants 1 physical resistance per druid level for the duration of the spell. Lasts 30 seconds a druid level Costs 25 spell points Metas: Quicken Extend
Fires of Purity Fire DR penalty has been changed to a 10% vulnerability penalty
Salt Ray now causes the helpless state when enemies fail their save.
Spike Growth visual has been adjusted to reduce the amount it blocks view
Shillelagh is now a self buff that enchants any wooden weapon you wield for it's duration. While the enchant stays on the player casting other weapon enchants will suspend it until the weapon is re-equips and it clears other temp weapon enchants.
Call Lightning Storm now deals 1d10 Electric Damage per 2 Caster Levels each time an enemy is struck with Lightning.
Storm of Vengeance now deals 1d3 Acid Damage per Caster Level every two seconds to enemies in the area.
Storm of Vengeance now deals 1d10 Electric Damage per 2 Caster Levels each time an enemy is struck with Lightning.



Wolf Pet

The death of a Druid's Wolf pet will no longer cause the Druid to lose hit points and spell points
Druids now have 3 pet revivals each rest instead of 1


Feats

Natural Weapon Fighting has been changed to the following: "You have grown accustomed to fighting with claws, paws, and jaws. While in a Druid animal form, such as Bear or Wolf, you receive +4 to melee power, physical resistance rating, and Doublestrike chance. In bear form your glancing blow damage is increased by 10%. This feat can be taken up to three times. This feat gives no benefit to Druids in elemental or none animal forms."
The Epic Feat "Master of the Wilds" now includes the spell "Salt Ray"

Cocomajobo
03-27-2018, 03:16 PM
NATURE'S WARRIOR

Cores

Nature's Warrior: You gain 8 hitpoints and +1 to hit and damage in an animal form for this and every other core taken in this tree. In Wolf or Winter Wolf form you also gain +1 Sneak Attack Die for this and every other core taken in this tree.
Nature's Senses: Your attacks penetrate 10% of your enemies Fortification. You gain a +3 bonus to Listen, Spot and Search
Nature's Bounty: You have mastered the art of wielding divine magic in animal forms, and using it to empower your body in physical combat. While in an animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 2.0.
A True Hunter: While in an animal form you gain a +1 competence bonus to critical damage multiplier of your weapon. Requires a weapon to be equipped.
Howling Frost: Casting Howl of Terror now grants you "Winter Hunt" for 10 seconds which grants +10 exceptional bonus to Doublestrike, a 25% bonus to spell critical chance, and +50% to spell critical multiplier to all cold damage spells. This will only occur once every 30 seconds.
Beast Form Mastery: You have mastered the art of wielding divine magic in animal form, and using it to empower your body in physical combat. While in an animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 1.5. Does not stack with Nature’s Protector cores. Passive: +2 strength and wisdom and +10 to double strike and physical resistance rating



Tier 1

Extra Wild Empathy: +1/2/3 Wild Empathy uses per rest. +1/2/3 Improved Wild Empathy uses per rest (if you have this ability). +5/10/15 Positive Spell Power. AP COST: 1
Snapping Jaws: Whenever you bluff or use an ability that triggers a bluff check such as baiting bite your target is debuffed losing -2 AC and you gain a stack of "Snapping jaws" for +2 AC for 15 seconds. Stacks 1/2/3 times. AP COST: 1
Take Down: Increase trip DCs by 1/2/3, AP COST: 1
Bestial Nature: Increase reflex and fortitude saves by 1/2 AP COST: 1
Athletic Hunter: +1/2/3 bonus to Balance, Jump, Move Silently, and Hide Skills. Tier 3 grants one charge of wild empathy AP COST: 1


Tier 2

Flight: Gain an uncapped dodge bonus of 20% for 10/20/30 seconds, costs 1 wild empathy to activate. 1 Minute 30 seconds cooldown. AP COST: 1
Improved Dodge: +1/2/3 Dodge. AP COST: 1
Ghost Wolf: Passive: Gain ghost touch on your melee attacks while in wolf forms AP COST: 2
Brother Wolf: While your wolf pet is alive and within 40 meters it gains 5/10/15 hp every 12/9/6 seconds and 10/15/20 magical and physical resistance rating and you gain 1/2/3 to hit and damage AP COST: 1 (Update: Moved down from Tier 3)
Action Boost: Double Strike: Activate to gain a +[10/20/30]% action boost bonus to Doublestrike for 20 seconds. AP COST: 1


Tier 3

Fight: +1/2/3 damage and AC while in an animal form AP COST: 1 (requires: flight)
Prey on the Weak: 8/15% Damage Bonus against helpless targets AP COST: 1 (Update: Moved up from Tier 2)
Ghost Wolf Pack: Wolf Form Melee Attack: When you trigger this spectral pack mates appear to assault all foes before you. On Hit: +2(W) and a +2 critical threat range. This also applies a 5 second confusion effect with no save. Bosses are immune to the confusion. You gain 35% Incorporeal defense for 20 seconds. AP COST: 2
Essence of the Shrike: Striking a blow focuses your mind and body. When you critically hit an enemy while in any Wolf form, you gain 10/20 temporary spell points for 8 seconds. Passive (Permanent): +5/10 Positive Spellpower AP COST: 1
Strength or Wisdom AP: 2


Tier 4

Fatal Harrier: Killing an enemy grants you a 5% enhancement bonus to attack speed for 20 seconds. You also gain a +1 bonus to reflex saves. Stacks up to 1/3/5 times. Enemies your own level or higher have a 100% chance of activating this ability. For every level below you, the chances are reduced by 20%. A monster two levels below you only has a 60% chance of creating this effect. AP COST:1
Four Legs Good: You become immune to most knock down effects in animal forms AP COST: 2
Ferocity: You gain +2/4/6 melee power in bear or wolf form. This bonus is doubled if an effect is preventing you from casting. AP COST: 1
Great White Wolf: +10/20/30 cold spell power, while in winter wolf form you gain 10/20/30% cold absorption. AP COST: 1
Strength or Wisdom AP: 2



Tier 5

Alpha Strike: Area Melee Attack: Deals +2/3/5[W] You fight for leadership. AOE melee attack. On targets above 85% health it reduces their Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Spell Power by 25 for 15 seconds. Activation Cost: 12/9/6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 18/15/12 Seconds. Requires any of Wolf, Bear, or Tree forms to activate. AP COST: 1 (requires: fight)
Swift Hunter: Wolf forms gain evasion. Armor restrictions apply as normal. AP COST: 2
Throat Rip: Requires Wolf Form. Melee attack that strikes 3 times, adds 6 sneak attack dice on each attack. Each hit on a living target inflicts a Bleed that causes 1d6 damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Bleed stacks up to 10 times and scales with 200% Melee Power. Target must make a fortitude save (DC: 15+Highest of WIS/STR Mod + Stun Mods) or will be silenced for 15 seconds. Bosses are immune to silence but take a 25 point spellpower debuff.
Jaws of the Great White Wolf: The spell Jaws of Ice now grants Temporary Hit Points equal to 10 times your character level. AP COST: 2
Go for the Kill: "Requires Wolf Form. You charge your target for +4[W], +5 to Critical Threat Range, +1 Critical Damage Multilpier, and knock them down (Save neagtes trip. DC: 15 + Highest of STR/WIS mod + trip bonuses) and grant yourself a +15 bonus to Melee Power for 30 seconds. If charging from a distance of over 10 meters the Melee Power bonus is doubled. Deals an additional 50 points of damage to helpless targets (scales with Melee Power). Cooldown: 20 Seconds. Activation Cost Cost: 15 Spell Points

Cocomajobo
03-27-2018, 03:16 PM
SEASONS HERALD

Cores

Child of Summer: You gain the ability Child of Summer: Activate to grant +5 Spellpower when casting fire, force, light, sonic and positive spells. This seasonal Spellpower is multiplied by one for every Core enhancement possessed in Season's Herald (starting with this one), up to +30 when you have all six Enhancements. Lasts until death or change of season. Fire Elemental form changes you into this season automatically. Passive: +1 Universal Spellpower per AP spent in this tree.
Elder of Winter: You gain Child of Winter: Activate to gain +5 Spellpower when casting Cold, Acid, Electric, and Negative spells per core in this tree. Lasts until death or season change. Water elemental form changes you into this season automatically. Passive: +1 caster levels to spells in your active season.
Wellspring: +1 Max Caster Level for spells appropriate to your season. The effects of your shillelagh spell are doubled.
Sun Burst: Gain Sun Burst as an SLA, SP: 4, Cooldown: 20 seconds (new – lowered cooldown)
Storm of Vengeance: Gain Storm of Vengeance as an SLA, SP 20 cost. 2 minute cool down.
Hierophant: You are wise and skilled in the art of wielding divine magic to summon aid and change the world around you. +2 Wisdom & Constitution. Your Conjuration and Evocation spells gain +1 DC, +1 caster level, and +1 max caster level in both seasons.


Tier 1

Beguile: Whenever you attack or cast a spell on an enemy, there is a 50% chance to Beguile an affected enemy [1/1-2/1-3] times for 3 seconds. Beguile: -2% attack speed, -2 Spellpower. Beguile stacks up to 25 times, and one stack fades every few seconds. Up to one enemy affected each second (by up to [1/2/3] stacks). Does not affect bosses. AP COST: 1
Shared Spirit: Your wolf pet gains 3/6/10% bonus to its maximum hit points. Passive: You gain 1/2/3 spell power. AP COST: 1
Produce Flame: Spell Like Ability: Produce Flame. Cost: 6/5/3, Cooldown: 10/6/4 AP COST: 1
Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic
Druidic Wisdom: Gain a +1/2/4 to heal, spellcraft, and diplomancy skills. AP COST: 1


Tier 2

Efficient MetaMagic: Reduce the cost of a meta magic, empower, enlarge, maximize, quicken AP COST: 2
Efficient MetaMagic: Reduce the cost of a meta magic, empower, enlarge, maximize, quicken AP COST: 2
Creeping Cold: Spell Like Ability: Creeping Cold (Cost: [6/5/3] SP. Cooldown: [12/10/8] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires produce flame
Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic
Action Boost: Spell Power: Action boost grants 10/20/30 spell power for 20 seconds. 30 second cool down. AP COST: 1


Tier 3

Autumn Leaves: Toggle to be shielded by autumn winds. Under this effect gain feather fall, +3 dodge, and a 10% chance to knock down any enemy that strikes you in melee. Costs: 8 SP Lasts until death or toggled off AP COST: 1
Efficient Heighten AP COST: 2
Call Lightning: Spell Like Ability: Call Lightning (Cost: [10/8/6] SP. Cooldown: [12/8/6] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires: Creeping cold
Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic
Wisdom +1 AP COST: 2


Tier 4

Spring Resurgence: Fill an ally with the vitality of spring. When that ally falls below 50% hit points, that ally and any other allies near him are healed by 20d6 positive energy, and receive a +2 primal bonus to attack rolls. (Lasts 5 minutes or until triggered.) (Activation Cost: [8/6/4] Spell Points.) Cooldown: [8/4/2] seconds) AP COST: 1
Strength of the Solstice: +1 to the save DC's of your Evocation and Conjuration spells AP COST: 2
Salt Ray: Spell Like Ability: Salt Ray (Cost: [12/10/8] SP. Cooldown: [12/10/8] seconds) AP COST: 1
Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic
Wisdom +1 AP COST: 2


Tier 5

Crown of Summer: A target of your choice is filled with the light and vitality of summer. That target gains a 15% enhancement bonus to Healing Amplification, 10 Melee Power, and 5 Ranged Power. (Activation Cost: 1 Spell Point. Cooldown: 6 seconds) Only one target can have the crown at a time. AP COST: 1
Master of the Elements: Gain 5/10/15 spell power in your season. Passive rank 3: Changing into Fire Elemental form now grants you the "Anger of the Noon Day Sun" effect. Changing into Water Elemental Form now grants you the "Icy Mantle" effect. (Update: Removed the 17 Druid levels requirement for the rank 3 passive.)
Word of Balance: Spell Like Ability: Word of Balance (Cost: [12/9/6] SP. Cooldown: [20/15/10] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires: Salt Ray
Time and Tide: Increase your Caster Level and Max Caster Level by +1 AP COST: 2
Armor of Winter: Gain 8 times your wisdom in temporary Hit points that lasts 60 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds, Sp Cost: 12) AP COST: 2

Cocomajobo
03-27-2018, 03:17 PM
NATURE'S PROTECTOR

Cores


Nature's Protector: Gain 8 hp and 3 MRR. For every additional core in the tree gain 16 hp and 3 mrr.
Nature's Defense: Defensive Combat Stance: +8 Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. Cannot be active with other defensive stances but can be used while raging.
Magical Beast: While in an animal form the penalty on your spell cooldowns is reduced from 2.5 to 2.0. This benefit does not stack with the Nature's Warrior versions of this ability. Grants Heavy Armor Proficiency.
Big Claws: Adds Great Maul to your spell book. Great Maul: Requires Bear or Dire Bear Form: Activate to do an Innate Attack: Deals +2[W] and the target you strike must make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 6 seconds (DC: 13 + Highest of STR or WIS mods + Tactical bonuses). Cooldown: 12 Seconds. Activation Cost: 3 Spell Points. Shares a cooldown with Maul.
Big Bear: The Tremor spell now has a 20% chance to grant you an additional use of Rage. Passive: Grants a 5% combat style attack speed bonus in bear forms.
The Great Bear: Grants a 10% combat style attack speed bonus in bear forms. +2 Strength and Constitution. While in animal forms your spell cooldowns are only increased by 1.5 down from 2. This effect does not stack with the Nature's Warrior version of this ability.


Tier 1

Rage of the Beast: Activate to rage gaining +4 strength and Con, +2 will saves, -2 ac for 40 seconds. You cannot cast spells while raging. This ability shares cool down and charges with Barbarian Rage. Effects that modify Barbarian Rage also affect this and vice versa. Can be used 1/2 times per rest. Grants the Dismiss Rage Feat. AP COST: 1
Bloody Claws: Every time you use maul you gain one stack of Killer Instinct: +1 to damage for 15 seconds. Max stack size: 1/2/3. AP COST: 1
Improved Natural Defense: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in Nature's Defense Stance:

Enchanted Defense: +4/8/12 Competence Bonus to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating
Fierce Defense: +50/100/150% Competence Bonus to Melee Threat Generation
Grizzled Defense: +1/2/3 Sacred Bonus to all Saving Throws
Fey’s Blessing: Gain a +2/4/6 bonus to Magical Resistance Rating AP COST: 1
Animal Brutality: Gain a +1/2/3 skill bonus to intimidate, swim, and jump. Rank 3 grants +1 to hit and damage. AP COST: 1


Tier 2

Primal Beast: While raging in animal form you gain +5/10 Melee Power. AP COST: 1 Requires Rage of the Beast
Sharp Bloody Claws: Your Shred attack now grants you one stack of Killer Instinct: +1 to damage for 15 seconds. AP COST: 1
Improved Natural Defense: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in Nature's Defense Stance:

Enchanted Defense: +4/8/12 Competence Bonus to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating
Fierce Defense: +50/100/150% Competence Bonus to Melee Threat Generation
Grizzled Defense: +1/2/3 Sacred Bonus to all Saving Throws
Thick Hide: +2/4/6 Natural Armor Bonus AP COST: 1
Action Boost: Beast at Bay: Activate to gain an action boost for +5/10/15 Armor Class and +7/14/21 Magical Resistance Rating for 20 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Activation Cost: 1 Action Boost Charge. AP COST: 1



Tier 3

Enduring Beast: While raging in animal form you gain +10/20 Positive Healing Amplification and +1/2 Strength. Grants +1/2 additional uses of rage per rest. AP COST: 1 Requires: Undying Beast
Savage Roar: Using the Roar spell with 1 stack of killer instinct active now triggers a burst of 1-3 sonic damage per wilderness lore feat you have. Scales with Melee Power. If you have 2 stacks it also stuns (DC: 10 + Wilderness Lore Rank + Strength Mod + Stun Mods). At 3 stacks the damage is increased to 5-10 per Wilderness Lore Feat in addition to the Stun. Casting Roar clears all stacks of Killer Instinct. AP: 2 (Update: Moved down from Tier 4)
Improved Natural Defense: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in Nature's Defense Stance:

Enchanted Defense: +4/8/12 Competence Bonus to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating
Fierce Defense: +50/100/150% Competence Bonus to Melee Threat Generation
Grizzled Defense: +1/2/3 Sacred Bonus to all Saving Throws
Ursa Protector: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in either Bear Form with Nature's Defense Stance active:

Ursa's Heart: +15%/20%/25% Competence bonus to maximum Hit Points
Ursa's Spirit: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Constitution
Ursa's Will: +3/6/9 Sacred Bonus to Magical Resistance Rating
Strength OR Constitution AP COST: 2



Tier 4

Undying Beast: While raging in animal form you gain immunity to energy drain and death effects. Grants an additional use of rage. AP COST: 2 Requires: Primal Beast
Spirit Refreshed: Shifting forms when you are below 33% health now heals you to full. This can only occur once every 3 minutes. AP COST: 2 (Update: Moved up from Tier 3)
Spirit Renewed: Shifting forms when you are below 33% health now heals you to full and restores you as per the spell. This can only occur once every 2 minutes. Shape shifting now always removes fatigue and exhaustion. AP COST: 2 Requires: Spirit refreshed
Ursa Protector: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in either Bear Form with Nature's Defense Stance active:

Ursa's Heart: +15%/20%/25% Competence bonus to maximum Hit Points
Ursa's Spirit: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Constitution
Ursa's Will: +3/6/9 Sacred Bonus to Magical Resistance Rating
Strength OR Constitution AP COST: 2



Tier 5

Beast unleashed: While raging in an animal form you gain an additional +25 Melee Power. In addition, if the druid is in a Bear Form they gain a +15% bonus to Armor Class and +50% Melee Threat Generation. Grants an additional use of rage per rest. AP COST: 2
Requires Enduring Beast
Bear Charge: Bear Form Melee Attack: Charge forward dealing +2[W] with a +1 Critical Threat Range and Damage Multiplier to all targets before you. In addition, knock down all enemies that fail a Reflex Save (DC: 15 + Highest of WIS or STR Mod + Trip Bonuses). 15 second cooldown. AP COST: 2
Lightning strikes the Mountain: Bear Form Melee Attack: Activate to call down a bolt of lightning as you launch an attack . On Hit: +3[W] and 5-8 Electric Damage per character level (Scales with Melee Power). You are also granted a +100% bonus to Melee Threat Generation and +20 Magical Resistance Rating for 15 seconds. Bonuses are doubled if Nature's Defense stance is active. Cooldown: 30 Seconds. Activation Cost: 15 Spell Points.
Ursa Protector: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in either Bear Form with Nature's Defense Stance active:

Ursa's Heart: +15%/20%/25% Competence bonus to maximum Hit Points
Ursa's Spirit: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Constitution
Ursa's Will: +3/6/9 Sacred Bonus to Magical Resistance Rating
Force of Nature: You gain 10/15/20% resistance against force damage and 1/2/3 Constitution. AP COST: 1

Cocomajobo
03-27-2018, 03:18 PM
Bugs fixed since the first preview
These are bugs that were in preview 1 but should be fixed and no longer occurring in Preview 2. This list is to let so that you don't have to wonder whether a bug you found on the last preview has been fixed yet or not and also to give you a little glimpse into what the development process generally looks like. There are still many more bugs that we know about and have on the docket to fix before the live release but simply did not make it in in time for this preview.



Wild Shape: Shield Mastery still applying benefits while in Animal Forms.
Nature's Protector: "Nature's Defense" (Second Core) grants Heavy Armor Proficiency. Requires Re-logging to apply.
Nature's Protector: "Magical Beast" (Third Core) causes Bear animal spells to have their cooldowns INCREASED by roughly 33%
Nature's Protector: "Big Bear" (Fifth Core) bonus to attack speed is removed on Rest
Nature's Protector: "The Great Bear" (Sixth Core) bonus to attack speed is removed on Rest
Nature's Protector: "The Great Bear" (Sixth Core) does not grant +2 Strength
Nature's Protector: "The Great Bear" (Sixth Core) does not grant +2 Constitution
Nature's Protector: "Defense Boost" (T2) is simply named "Defense Boost" and not "Action Boost: (Something other than Defense cause that's already taken)"
Nature's Protector: "Enduring Beast" (T3) text states that it grants +10/20 "healing amplification" but only grants "Positive Healing Amplification"
Nature's Protector: "Enduring Beast" (T3) rank 2 does not mention the cumulative +2 rages per rest (+1 for rank 1, and another +1 for rank 2).
Nature's Protector: "Strength" (T3) costs 1 AP instead of the usual 2 AP for an Attribute point.
Nature's Protector: "Constitution" (T3) costs 1 AP instead of the usual 2 AP for an Attribute point.
Nature's Protector: "Strength" (T4) costs 1 AP instead of the usual 2 AP for an Attribute point.
Nature's Protector: "Constitution" (T4) costs 1 AP instead of the usual 2 AP for an Attribute point.
Nature's Protector: "Ability Score" (T4) does not have "Ability Score" (T3) as a pre-requisite like most other trees.
Nature's Protector: "Beast Unleashed" (T5) states that it grants "50% increase to threat." while raging in bear form. It only grants an increase to Melee threat gain and not Magic or Missile threat.
Nature's Warrior: Core 1 Natural Adept is granting +3 spot, listen and search incorrectly
Nature's Warrior: Core 1 Natural Adept description is incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Core 3 Nature's Bounty currently increases cooldown of animal form spells in addition to decreasing cooldown of normal spells
Nature's Warrior: Core 3 Nature's Bounty doesnt have full description
Nature's Warrior: Core 4 A True Hunter description is incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Core 4 A True Hunter crit multiplier is not applying
Nature's Warrior: Core 5 Howl of Winter does not grant +1 damage or +1 sneak attack die for wolves
Nature's Warrior: Core 5 Beast Form Mastery does not gain +1 to hit and damage or sneak attack dice for wolves
Nature's Warrior: Tier 1: Snapping Jaws description on the actual debuff for ranks 2 and 3 are incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Tier 1: Bestial Nature is giving +1 hp per rank
Nature's Warrior: Tier 1: Athletic Hunter description is incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Tier 1: Snapping Jaws description on the actual debuff for ranks 2 and 3 are incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Tier 2: Flight gives 1/2/3 dodge in addition to it's intended effects
Nature's Warrior: Tier 2: Brother Wolf all 3 ranks give the same benefit
Nature's Warrior: Tier 2: Ghost Wolf does not have any active effect
Nature's Warrior: Tier 3: Ghost Pack text is incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Tier 3: Essence of the Shrike description is incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Tier 3: Ghost Pack is dealing incorrect amount and type of damage
Nature's Warrior: Tier 4: Four Legs Good doesnt prevent knockdowns
Nature's Warrior: Tier 4: Fatal Harrier description is incorrect
Nature's Warrior: Tier 5: Alpha Strike seems to be using old form damage values, or at least doing something weird
Season's Herald: Max Caster Level and Caster Level from the Core Enhancements not stacking with those granted by Time and Tide.
Season's Herald: "Wax and Wane" (Tiers 1,2,3, & 4) do not increase Spell Crit Chance for any spell type regardless of which season is active.
Season's Herald: Multiple enhancements do not grant +1 Universal Spellpower per AP spent.
Season's Herald: "Child of Summer" (Core 1) does not grant Force Spellpower while toggled on.
Spells: Maul does not apply an intimidate effect to its target.
Spells: When quickened, Fire Seeds does not hurl three projectiles

SerPounce
03-27-2018, 03:42 PM
Looks like all the DCs for the animal attacks you listed have been significantly reduced since the last update (removing the half druid level bonus and reducing the base). Many others no longer state a DC formula. Has the half druid level part of the formula been removed from all of them?

That's going to be a huge hit to the viability of builds with significant druid levels. You're going to have to take a deep splash to get tactics DCs up.

[edit] also, I guess you looked at the cool down for the animal attacks and determined they were all fine except knockdown which needed something longer? Jaws of winter has about twice the cooldown of most stunning abilities. If animal druids are going to work then the DCs and the cooldowns need to be competitive. It looked like the DCs were in a good place... now not so much. The cooldowns are still ages too long for many abilities.

It's strange that steelstar added half arty level to the mastermaker stun while half druid level was removed from the druid abilities.

Pilgrim1
03-27-2018, 06:06 PM
These changes seam overall solid, especialy thankyou for adding the helpless state to salt ray. Just 2 comments.

(1) could you add wisdom to the bear druid (str/con/wis) as an option? Bear druid’s focusing on wisdom, or caster druids who splash this tree would really apreciate this change.

(2) call lighting has wighted dice 1d5+5, while call lighting storm (and storm of veng.) do not. Is this intentional?

Thank you.

HastyPudding
03-27-2018, 06:45 PM
Will there be any benefit to druids using animal forms to taking the shield mastery/improved shield mastery feats? This is a fairly large loss in PRR compared to other builds, not to mention they'll be 'wasting' feats in order to use legendary shield mastery in the sentinel destiny. What's the point of making a bear druid if you can't go for a tanky build?

Maelodic
03-27-2018, 06:49 PM
1. All animal form spells now have listed DCs except for Howl of Terror - though Howl of Terror seems to be enchantment focused and standard spell DC.

2. Cold breath flat out doesn't work on dragonborn. It doesn't do damage at all. Tested in a variety of places.

bbqzor
03-27-2018, 07:21 PM
Hi Coco,

I just wanted to ask: What is the idea with the druid spell DC direction?

Currently they get bonuses to Conjure and Transmutation in the core, and Evocation and Transmutation in T5. This is being changed to Conjure and Evocation in the core, and Conjure and Evocation in T4 (with a general caster level boost in T5). Okay, so Transmutation is out, and Evocation/Conjuration are the two main groups.

This leaves Ice Flowers and Quench "out in the cold" so to speak; would it be possible to see those changed to Conjure and Evocation respectively? (Conjure Ice Flowers into existence, and Evoke Cold down on someone). Otherwise, Cold druids will have a hard time unifying their spell listing to a uniform dc range.

Likewise, the "Druid" set bonus in the new item listing has a note indicating you are planning to change the Evo bonus to Conjure. While this would help Storm of Vengeance, Creeping Doom, and Fire Seeds... it would hurt Anger of the Noonday Sun, Mantle of the Icy Soul, Snowslide, Earthquake, Body of the Sun, Firestorm, Freezing Spray, Sunbeam, Call Lightning Storm, Flame Strike, Ice Storm, Salt Ray, and more. The latter list is far larger and more important to have; it seems like it would make more sense to keep the item as Evocation.

Finally, there is no real support for a lot of more druid-identity flavored abilities like Entangle, Splinterbolt, Snare, Spike Growth, Enveloping Swarm, Creeping Doom, and Howl of Terror (some of which show up for Rangers and Warlocks as well but are thematically nature-ish). Would it be possible to see some sort of "Plant Affinity" enhancement which either affects these, boosts acid damage, or something? They are across a lot of schools, and basically outclassed in a lot of ways. It would be nice to see some reason to use them or way to make them effective.

Right now, the shift is clearly away from Druid being different, and more towards Druid paralleling Sorc with only two schools supported (Conj/Evo), and then the support being uneven (its really hard to do an Acid sorc since they have spells some evo, some conj, and the tree doesnt allow a toggle or good way to support both; similarly here, druid itemization only really supports evo or conj not both, and schools like transmutation or enchantment arent supported at all). Basically, this directly translates into pigeonholing druids into using a small set of options which have enough support to scale up, rather than being able to choose a variety of school builds like Wizard can.

TLDR: Please be sure key Druid spells arent indirectly left out when changing druid focuses around, and try to look at being sure there is an actual way to use their whole ability set instead of just one slice of it. It would be nice to see different sorts of Druids be options instead of funneling into "Sorc clones" with regen/quake instead of fireball. Thanks.

neain2008
03-27-2018, 07:40 PM
SEASONS HERALD

Wellspring: +1 Max Caster Level for spells appropriate to your season. The effects of your shillelagh spell are doubled.


As a caster druid player I am happy with what for the most part seems to be quality of life changes to seasons herald I just have one question. Why would a caster type druid use Shillelagh after level 3?

I use that spell until I get flame blade which synergises with my decent levels of WIS and my normally abysmally low STR. After this comes out I will play with the spell after I get that core... but unless it out performs WIS to attack and damage I dont see ANY caster type use it even when low/out of SP.

If this is for synergies between natures herald and the other 2 trees... just move it to one of them so they dont have to 'waste' enhancement points in herald just for this. Otherwise will someone please let me know why the caster tree is getting an extra +1[W] to staves?

elvesunited
03-27-2018, 07:56 PM
Well it's official. Essence of Nature, now renamed back to Essence of Shrike only works in wolf form. Which means that bear no longer has any temporary spell points.

Which means all those low cost / low damage bear innate animal attack spells and abilities? Rapid casting them will drain the spell points fairly quickly for minimal results. So forget about about Killer Instinct. It's unsustainable. The innate animal spell casting bear is the equivalent of the "eldritch knight"!

Forget about rage too. Maximum 6 rages. 1 minute each. Not worth the hefty AP investment as the lack of rages/duration mean the bear will spend 90% of the time unraged. ( and 20% chance with Tremor is not enough especially without temp sp to slow the spell point bleed )

And while your at it forget about spirit refreshed. 33% health is panic time. The next blow could kill you. As such no one intentionally fights at such a low health level and the odds you'd finish a fight at that level are slim at best.

And some Tier 5 enhancements remain considerably subpar to similar enhamcements in Tier 1 and 3!

The Nature Protector Tree has been rendered into a splash tree! Really the only way I think you could make an effective melee bear now is to multi-level deep into fighter or barbarian.

SerPounce
03-27-2018, 08:07 PM
Follow up: tooltips give the formula (though not your current DC) and .5 druid level has been removed from all the animal "spell" attacks. -10 to all DCs for a pure druid. Putting them well out of viability range for most builds.

Welp, at least the artificer tree looks interesting. Druid is DoA.

LrdSlvrhnd
03-27-2018, 08:47 PM
All animal forms (Wolf, Bear, Winter Wolf, and Dire Bear) have had their sit, kneel, and sleep animations polished



By "polished", do you mean they now have them? I think there's a 'sleep', but sit and kneel don't exist, at least for wolves. Is there an animation now for when you're shrining?




Natural Weapon Fighting has been changed to the following: "You have grown accustomed to fighting with claws, paws, and jaws. While in a Druid animal form, such as Bear or Wolf, you receive +4 to melee power, physical resistance rating, and Doublestrike chance. In bear form your glancing blow damage is increased by 10%. This feat can be taken up to three times. This feat gives no benefit to Druids in elemental or none animal forms."



So bears get increased glancing blow damage, but nothing specifically for wolves? Oh well. At least you're not adding extra feats on top of the NWF line...


NATURE'S WARRIOR


Go for the Kill: "Requires Wolf Form. You charge your target for +4[W], +5 to Critical Threat Range, +1 Critical Damage Multilpier, and knock them down (Save neagtes trip. DC: 15 + Highest of STR/WIS mod + trip bonuses) and grant yourself a +15 bonus to Melee Power for 30 seconds. If charging from a distance of over 10 meters the Melee Power bonus is doubled. Deals an additional 50 points of damage to helpless targets (scales with Melee Power). Cooldown: 20 Seconds. Activation Cost Cost: 15 Spell Points



So what's the maximum range on this? And does something need to be targeted? Can breakables, levers, NPCs, PCs, hirelings, etc, be targeted in order to cover distance?


NATURE'S PROTECTOR

Tier 1

Rage of the Beast: Activate to rage gaining +4 strength and Con, +2 will saves, -2 ac for 40 seconds. You cannot cast spells while raging. This ability shares cool down and charges with Barbarian Rage. Effects that modify Barbarian Rage also affect this and vice versa. Can be used 1/2 times per rest. Grants the Dismiss Rage Feat. AP COST: 1


So people complained that 60 seconds wasn't long enough and asking to have it be increased by CON like barb rage, and your response is to *lessen* it instead? Alrighty then. But hey, bears have a "chance" of gaining a rage. So much for my dreams of a mad wolf, I guess.

SirValentine
03-27-2018, 10:00 PM
SEASONS HERALD


Spell Penetration still removed
Enemy save debuff still removed
Transmutation bonuses still removed
Conjuration bonuses still reduced

And still no comment about this giant package of caster Druid nerfs in any of the multiple previous threads.

Also, capstone still adds un-thematic Con instead of being in line with other post-pass caster-focused trees.

(And still two melee trees but only one caster tree on a caster class.)

Why? Why the caster Druid hatred? Where's the evidence & testing of the over-performance that would justify all these nerfs?

edrein
03-27-2018, 10:03 PM
My general feelings for this pass is One Step Forward and Two Steps Back. At each preview you present a pretty solid proposal, we the players with the gameplay experience and even theorycraft on what can be done with this have given you feedback and suggestions to improve. And every single time you've taken that feedback at half measure, you either take it and work with it and then add your own strange twist that defeats the purpose of the suggestion in the first place, or frankly put you do things no one asked for.

No one asked for the rage to be shorter. We all requested for it to be longer and meaningful. What we truly wanted was for bears to be treated the same as Destruction Domain Clerics. We wanted the ability to cast our druidic spells while raged, we wanted to be able to heal ourselves, etc. After all why shouldn't we be able to when our tree doesn't exactly give us good rage effects compared to the three barbarian trees? Now, now we get 25MP which is a great change. In exchange we've got 40 second rages that -MIGHT- regenerate when we cast Tremor. That means 18 levels of druid minimum for Tremor to regen. So I thought to myself, as a pure I can live with this, it's not optimal but it works. Then I considered given everything in this Enhancement Pass environment is so multiclass focused what could I gain from barbarian levels? Well, if I want to make the most usage of the bear abilities and spells I need to go atleast 18 bear, so I've got two levels to play with. Two barbarian will net me a grand total of: +6 rages, +3 strength, +3 constitution, and +75% rage duration (30 seconds).

So for a pure bear that means your grand total power while raging is going to be: +6 strength, +4 constitution, +35MP, +15% AC, immunity to energy drain and death effects, and +20 heal amp + for 40 seconds.
For a bear with the 18/1-2 barb that becomes: +9 strength, +7 constitution, +35MP, +15% AC, immunity to energy drain and death effects, and +20 heal amp + for 70 seconds.
For point of reference a pure barbarian's rage is: +13 strength, +13 constitution, +75% rage duration, and +10MP for a total of 94.5 seconds not including constitution score outside of rage effect. (On live my barbarian rage lasts a whole 360 seconds or 6 minutes.)

The bear is losing a lot of traction on rage off the bat. However, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Because the bear should be able to cast spells and heal itself, something a barbarian can't do. Oh wait nevermind. A barbarian has some of the best self healing in the game. Blood Rage is strong, One Spirit is ridiculous, and while not commonly used Accelerated Metabolism gets the job done for self heals. Let alone the barbarians all have rider effects for their damage output that makes their DPS game far beyond their rage ability. However, rage is the only thing bears got going for them and it's a little weak on its own.

Now not only do bears lack the ability to cast spells while raged, they've now got no way to regen (temp proc) SP like a wolf. So bears are going to be burning through SP like no one's business, especially given the arbitrary and annoying need to maintain stacks of Killer Instinct by casting Maul/Great Maul and Shred just so they can deal sonic damage/stun with Roar. A spell that increases aggro with a duration of 20 minutes for a pure druid. If I'm building a rage bear, I'm going for DPS not tanking, so using Roar is a huge penalty when I'm not really trying to be a tank. I think using Roar is fine. But Roar needs to be either reduced to a temporary buff similar to an intim check or there needs to be a stance built in so that DPS bears can use the abilities in Nature's Defense without becoming hate magnets. This applies to the T5 ability as well.

But let's consider the DPS situation for a moment. Bears are supposed to make use of their glancing blows in the same way as a barbarian. Except the barbarian has access to the full THF line which gives them a base starting point of 50% glancing blow damage, further supplemented by their enhancements up to 60%. Bears have half of that number at a base 30% via natural fighting. Well given my list earlier perhaps bears will manage to pull ahead in raw damage via Melee Power? Nope. Almost all DPS barbarians are going to be running Frenzied Berserker's capstone for Storm's Eye. So we can go ahead and assume they will pick up 25MP from the cores and +10 while raging from Greater Rage at level 11. This puts a pure barbarian at the same base point of 35MP; however the DPS race completely falls apart for a bear at this point.
The barbarian gains: +6 more strength, Vicious (2d6), Greater Vicious (4d6), +1 critical damage multiplier on rolls of 19-20, and when raging your melee attacks have a 5% chance to deal 400 bludgeoning damage.
That's entirely from working to pick up Storm's Eye which gives them an additional 25 base damage clickie that goes down a stack every 3 seconds for a total of 75 seconds providing a large DPS boost.
Now any DPS barb worth their salt is going to grab atleast pain touch from Ravager for a free 1d6 untyped damage and they might even take the second pain touch for 2d6.
All of this scales 100% with melee power by the way. The bear druid doesn't remotely have anything that compares to this. Especially now that Big Bear has lost it's bludgeon damage portion from the first preview. And the bleed effect on Shred doesn't scale.

Spirit Refresh and Spirit Renewal need to just be cut from the tree. They're a poor man's version of One Spirit from Occult Slayer. Except they have an arbitrary and unhelpful rule system in play that makes it literally impossible or unviable to use in the case you need the heal. If you want to give bears a break and add a heal, but not make it entirely free? Then follow your work on Occult Slayer. Add an ability similar to One Spirit that heals the bear and removes charges of Killer Instincts, make it require 3 stacks to compete with making uses of Savage Roar and to build in a sort of internal CD much like One Spirit's 15 second cool down.

Now I went onto the first preview with high hopes, I did as much crash test dummying as I possibly could in the dojo. I tried builds, I tried abilities, I did more QA work than I half-way feel you guys performed. I'm afraid right now that if I log back on Lamannia for another stab at druids, I'm going to find things in a worse shape given the list of bug fixes you've made. You've yet to remotely even address important build making/breaking issues such as Single Dagger from Vistani. It's currently the only enhancement in the game that can make or break druid's using offhand items such as shields. Because frankly you've ruled Shield Mastery out and 'fixed' it from applying to animal forms per your patch notes for V2. Without Single Dagger working for shields and orbs like it does for Runearms, I just don't see any reason we all shouldn't embrace our inner barbarian and run two handed weapons for the 1.5x stat damage.

And speaking of 'viable' choices. You make the change to Shillelagh in this proposal, then you show us the named loot and not a single weapon is made of Wood. A wooden one hander and a wooden two hander should have been paramount on your loot design for this pack, especially if you plan to pair the release of the druid pass with it.

QuantumFX
03-27-2018, 10:11 PM
Is there any way we could get “Natural Fighting” as an alternate prereq for the “Great Weapon Aptitude” enhancements? “Half-orc druid” is literally the definition of a Gatekeeper in Eberron.

Arkai
03-28-2018, 06:40 AM
Are acid or electric spells getting a -3 caster levels penalty when in fire elemental form?

I cannot see that in the feat description, but it's happening at the combat log and in the damage output.

Thanks!

SerPounce
03-28-2018, 06:55 AM
Guys, if the DCs aren't workable the rest of the stuff you're concerned about is just window dressing.

Great maul for example is a fort save for:
DC: 13 + Highest of STR or WIS mods + Tactical bonuses

Even if we assume that's a miss-type and should be "stunning bonuses" rather than just generic tactical bonuses, you need about a 100 DC to make fort saves work in LE/LR, 120 is better. Show me how you can get that on a build with 18+ druid levels? Sure fighters can make stunning blow work at 3 lower, but they get up to +20 from feats, +5 from enhancements, +6 from power surge (with KtA), and +3 from defensive stance. That's 34 DC points that druids don't get any equivalent to. And stunning blow is kind of borderline anyway. Dire charge is more of the standard, and that has another +7, it's AoE, it doesn't cost SP, and has the same cooldown.

The other animal spell attacks are in the same boat: jaws of winter, snowslide, tremor, etc.

These abilities were borderline with the druid level bonus. Now they just aren't going to work. Well maybe with lots of pasts lives, great twink gear, and lots of reaper points, you can land them from time to time in heroic r1. To about the same extent you can make stunning blow work on a say a pure melee favored soul (class with no tactics bonuses).

Tilomere
03-28-2018, 08:26 AM
del

SerPounce
03-28-2018, 08:38 AM
Mmmm.

I was going for 17 D/ 2 bard /1 cleric, with ~90 charisma, ~70 strength base, LD, build Tilo's Stealthy Druidic Annihilator
(https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494863-Scratch-Pad-for-Build-fu?p=6078426&viewfull=1#post6078426)
Divine might will be +40 strength.
Bardic rage will be +4
Rams might will be +2
primal scream will be +5
animal growth will be +4

~125 strength when everything is said and done > 57 modifier

70 + tactics will break 100. They don't want you to AoE permastun by layering this on top of Dire Charge both at 120 DC. Builds like mine built with 4 different AoE stuns are why they won't allow all 4 stuns to be at the 120 DC level.

As a self-healing hybrid class, DCs aree never going to be fully workable. Always marginal. Fighter needs the DCs because their self healing is far more limited.

You got a screenshot of that 125 strength?

ned_ellis
03-28-2018, 09:07 AM
snip

TLDR: Please be sure key Druid spells arent indirectly left out when changing druid focuses around, and try to look at being sure there is an actual way to use their whole ability set instead of just one slice of it. It would be nice to see different sorts of Druids be options instead of funneling into "Sorc clones" with regen/quake instead of fireball. Thanks.

Signed. A million times signed.


Spell Penetration still removed
Enemy save debuff still removed
Transmutation bonuses still removed
Conjuration bonuses still reduced

And still no comment about this giant package of caster Druid nerfs in any of the multiple previous threads.

Also, capstone still adds un-thematic Con instead of being in line with other post-pass caster-focused trees.

(And still two melee trees but only one caster tree on a caster class.)

Why? Why the caster Druid hatred? Where's the evidence & testing of the over-performance that would justify all these nerfs?

Whilst I agree with most of what you wrote, I think we need to see this as basically a 'fix melee animal forms' pass. Seasons herald has essentially recieved a quality of life fix as another poster said earlier. Only the autumn leaves have me a little exicted - useful, not game breaking and flavourfull! Since we have only one tree to play with, a temp hp boost at T5 leaves me dissappointed. Core 3 improved shellilagh...erm, ok...???!? The mantles are still weighed pro-cold for some reason. The DC's based on school are still all over the place but I'm curious to see how the base spell modifications pan out (will probably help some but leave unused spells as it is now sadly). Essentially we gain one sla (which with the helpless issue sorted out doesnt need to be a sla!) and have varied defensive bonuses. It's a shame we'll still be laying down our aoe's or taking down our single target whilst the group has run off to the next encounter; feat spells (ruin, mass frog etc.) are the only ones that break that habit sadly. Oh well, missed opportunity imo but if they sort the animals out some should be happy anyway. I'll take the QofL I suppose...

unbongwah
03-28-2018, 09:28 AM
Is there any way we could get “Natural Fighting” as an alternate prereq for the “Great Weapon Aptitude” enhancements? “Half-orc druid” is literally the definition of a Gatekeeper in Eberron.
<signed>

Although technically, you should be able to take THF feat (if you meet STR pre-req natch) in order to unlock all of the THF bonuses which require it like Mad Munitions etc. Which in theory should carry over to bear form. I meant to test that on my barb / druid bear build during the last preview but didn't have time.

But given that THF does nothing by itself in bear form, it's silly to force players to take that feat just to unlock other goodies. Particularly since melee druid builds are feat-starved already.

Saekee
03-28-2018, 10:07 AM
does the thief acrobat attack speed boost with qstaff work in wolf form?

SirValentine
03-28-2018, 10:17 AM
Whilst I agree with most of what you wrote, I think we need to see this as basically a 'fix melee animal forms' pass.
Seasons herald has essentially recieved a quality of life fix...


I'm failing to see any quality improvement in nerfing the tree. Giving me Feather Fall or SLAs I don't care about at all, while taking away my DCs & Spell Pen, is not an improvement to me.

If the pass really was just fixing the animals, I'd prefer that to the Season's Herald nerfs we're getting. But of course, that doesn't have to be the choice; they could just add whatever supposed quality of life improvements without nerfing existing abilities in SH.

Even if you love the other changes, where's the justification for the nerfs?

Tilomere
03-28-2018, 10:27 AM
You got a screenshot of that 125 strength?

Nope, and considering what they did to monk splashes, not that interested in showing what other class splashes can do instead. :) Let me delete that real fast. Mistake to post it in the first place.

unbongwah
03-28-2018, 10:28 AM
does the thief acrobat attack speed boost with qstaff work in wolf form?
No. Neither does Quick Strike: you get a "you are in the wrong form" error message when you try, IIRC.

[Well, I think you can use QS in humanoid form, then shapeshift into wolf form and the buff will persist. Seems like a huge PITA to micromanage to me, though.]

edrein
03-28-2018, 10:30 AM
del

Before you deleted, just saying that calculation is a bit off. Skaldic Rage won't stack and I wasn't able to proofread any other errors. :(

Tilomere
03-28-2018, 10:35 AM
The fact that some builds like mine and Hjarki's had significantly higher strength than expected of a druid is why your build DCs got nerfed.

Soleran100
03-28-2018, 10:54 AM
Boo, no more wand and scroll mastery.

Seikojin
03-28-2018, 11:09 AM
NATURE'S WARRIOR

Tier 3


Ghost Wolf Pack: Wolf Form Melee Attack: When you trigger this spectral pack mates appear to assault all foes before you. On Hit: +2(W) and a +2 critical threat range. This also applies a 5 second confusion effect with no save. Bosses are immune to the confusion. You gain 35% Incorporeal defense for 20 seconds. AP COST: 2



When you do this attack, you disengage from combat and stop attacking. You cannot perform any combat actions until you move your character. To setup, build a druid with enough points for this enhancement and be in wolf form.
Repro:
1. Hold the attack key down to start swinging.
2. Press the hotkey button for the Ghost Wolf Pack
3. Observe the behavior after the attack animation ends
4. Press the hotkey for any other attack ability, observe the results
5. Press the attack key and observe the results
6. Move the character then repeat step 4 or 5, observing the results.
7. Repeat step 2 when able, and then attempt steps 3 - 5

Expected:
After the cool ghost wolf attack animation has started, the character should continue attacking and being able to use abilities.

Actual:
After the pack appears, the character stands still and combat actions cannot be executed.

Note:
The inability to attack lasted until I moved, I could not use ghost wolf again, until moving either. It looks like some mechanic related to going into incorp.

SerPounce
03-28-2018, 11:10 AM
Before you deleted, just saying that calculation is a bit off. Skaldic Rage won't stack and I wasn't able to proofread any other errors. :(

Rife with errors and made up numbers.

Exactly now things get nerfed. People make up nonsense numbers on the forums and the devs think that druids are running around with 125 strength on a max CHA build.

Maelodic
03-28-2018, 11:17 AM
KTA is not applying the DC boost to druid abilities at the moment - the number does not change when KTA is active.

edrein
03-28-2018, 12:15 PM
So with my last post and review I dug into the issues with bear with a heavy emphasis on DPS and sustainability. I think rather than make a 5 paragraph run on block of text about defenses it'd be better if I gave a proposed revamp of the Nature's Protector tree and feedback as to why I believe these changes would be better. My feedback is in Orange to run counter to the changes in this preview which were Teal.



NATURE'S PROTECTOR

Cores


Nature's Protector: Gain 8 hp and 3 MRR. For every additional core in the tree gain 16 hp and 3 mrr.
Nature's Defense or Nature's Fury: Defensive Combat Stance: +8 Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. Cannot be active with other defensive stances but can be used while raging. (Nature's Defense provides an additional 20 PRR where as Nature's Fury cancels any form of intimidation check or hate gain while using bear form spells and abilities.) #1
(Strong Paws: You deal blundgeon damage type as well as your weapon's damage type in bear form. You additionally deal 1d6 bludgeon damage, this scales 100% by melee power and scales 200% when using Nature's Fury stance. While in an animal form the penalty on your spell cooldowns is reduced from 2.5 to 2.0. This benefit does not stack with the Nature's Warrior versions of this ability. ) #2
Big Claws: Adds Great Maul to your spell book. Great Maul: Requires Bear or Dire Bear Form: Activate to do an Innate Attack: Deals +2[W] and the target you strike must make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 6 seconds (DC: 13 + Highest of STR or WIS mods + Tactical bonuses). Cooldown: 12 Seconds. Activation Cost: 3 Spell Points. Shares a cooldown with Maul. (Additionally your Tremor spell now has a 20% chance to grant you an addition use of Rage.) #3
Big Bear: (You gain a size bonus increase to attack melee attack range. Additionally your strong paws damage increases to 2d6 bludgeon with 100% melee power scaling and 200% if using Nature's Fury stance. When struck in combat you have a chance to gain +1 primal bonus to strength, this stacks up to five times and decays at a rate of one every ten seconds.) #4
The Great Bear: Grants a 10% combat style attack speed bonus in bear forms. +2 Strength and Constitution. While in animal forms your spell cooldowns are only increased by 1.5 down from 2. This effect does not stack with the Nature's Warrior version of this ability. (You have a 2% chance to knock down an enemy with your melee attacks, this has no saving throw attached.) #5


Tier 1

Rage of the Beast: Activate to rage gaining +4 strength and Con, +2 will saves, -2 ac for 40 seconds. (You can cast druid spells while raging.) This ability shares cool down and charges with Barbarian Rage. Effects that modify Barbarian Rage also affect this and vice versa. Can be used 1/2 times per rest. Grants the Dismiss Rage Feat. (While Nature's Fury is active the duration of your rage scales based on Constitution Modifier similar to a barbarian.) #6 AP COST: 1
Bloody Claws: Every time you use maul you gain one stack of Killer Instinct: +1 to damage for 20 seconds. Max stack size: 2/4/6. #7 AP COST: 1
Improved Natural Defense: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in Nature's Defense Stance:

Enchanted Defense: +4/8/12 Competence Bonus to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating
Fierce Defense: +50/100/150% Competence Bonus to Melee Threat Generation in Nature's Defense or +5/10/15% Glancing Blows Damage in Nature's Fury #8
Grizzled Defense: +1/2/3 Sacred Bonus to all Saving Throws
Fey’s Blessing: Gain a +2/4/6 bonus to Magical Resistance Rating AP COST: 1
Animal Brutality: Gain a +1/2/3 skill bonus to intimidate, swim, and jump. Rank 3 grants +1 to hit and damage. AP COST: 1


Tier 2

Primal Beast: While raging in animal form you gain +5/10 Melee Power. AP COST: 1 Requires Rage of the Beast
Sharp Bloody Claws: Your Shred attack now grants you one stack of Killer Instinct: +1 to damage for 20 seconds. AP COST: 1
Improved Natural Defense: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in Nature's Defense Stance:

Enchanted Defense: +4/8/12 Competence Bonus to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating
Fierce Defense: +50/100/150% Competence Bonus to Melee Threat Generation in Nature's Defense or +5/10/15% Glancing Blows Damage in Nature's Fury
Grizzled Defense: +1/2/3 Sacred Bonus to all Saving Throws
Thick Hide: +2/4/6 Natural Armor Bonus and Heavy Armor Proficiency at rank 3. #9 AP COST: 1
Action Boost: Beast at Bay: Activate to gain an action boost for +5/10/15 Armor Class and +7/14/21 Magical Resistance Rating for 20 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Activation Cost: 1 Action Boost Charge. AP COST: 1



Tier 3

Enduring Beast: While raging in animal form you gain +10/20 Positive Healing Amplification and +1/2 Strength. You additionally have a chance to proc (2 x Wilderness Lore) temp HP when struck while raging. Grants +1/2 additional uses of rage per rest. #10 AP COST: 1 Requires: Undying Beast
Savage Roar: Using the Roar spell with 1 stack of killer instinct active now triggers a burst of 1-10 sonic damage per wilderness lore feat you have. Scales with Melee Power. If you have 2 stacks it also stuns (DC: 10 + Wilderness Lore Rank + Strength Mod + Stun Mods). At 3 stacks the damage is increased to 10-30 per Wilderness Lore Feat in addition to the Stun. Casting Roar clears up to 3 stacks of Killer Instinct. #11AP: 2 (Update: Moved down from Tier 4)
Improved Natural Defense: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in Nature's Defense Stance:

Enchanted Defense: +4/8/12 Competence Bonus to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating
Fierce Defense: +50/100/150% Competence Bonus to Melee Threat Generation in Nature's Defense or +5/10/15% Glancing Blows Damage in Nature's Fury
Grizzled Defense: +1/2/3 Sacred Bonus to all Saving Throws
Ursa Protector: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in either Bear Form with Nature's Defense Stance active:

Ursa's Heart: +15%/20%/25% Competence bonus to maximum Hit Points
Ursa's Spirit: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Constitution
Ursa's Strength: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Strength #12
Strength OR Constitution AP COST: 2



Tier 4

Undying Beast: While raging in animal form you gain immunity to energy drain and death effects. Grants an additional use of rage. AP COST: 2 Requires: Primal Beast
Swift Swipes: You gain 5% combat style attack speed while in bear forms. #13 AP COST: 2
Nature's Salve: You expend 6 Killer Instinct charges to lick your wounds. You heal for (10 x Wilderness Lore) HP, this scales at 50% melee power. #14 AP COST: 2 Requires: Bloody Claws
Ursa Protector: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in either Bear Form with Nature's Defense Stance active:

Ursa's Heart: +15%/20%/25% Competence bonus to maximum Hit Points
Ursa's Spirit: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Constitution
Ursa's Strength: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Strength
Strength OR Constitution AP COST: 2



Tier 5

Beast unleashed: While raging in an animal form you gain an additional +25 Melee Power. In addition, if the druid is in a Bear Form they gain a +15% bonus to Armor Class and +50% Melee Threat Generation. Grants an additional use of rage per rest. AP COST: 2
Requires Enduring Beast
Bear Charge: Bear Form Melee Attack: Charge forward dealing +2[W] with a +1 Critical Threat Range and Damage Multiplier to all targets before you. In addition, knock down all enemies that fail a Reflex Save (DC: 15 + Highest of WIS or STR Mod + Trip Bonuses). 15 second cooldown. AP COST: 2
Lightning strikes the Mountain: Bear Form Melee Attack: Activate to call down a bolt of lightning as you launch an attack . On Hit: +3[W] and 5-8 Electric Damage per character level (Scales with Melee Power). You are also granted a +100% bonus to Melee Threat Generation and +20 Magical Resistance Rating for 15 seconds. Bonuses are doubled if Nature's Defense stance is active. Cooldown: 30 Seconds. Activation Cost: 15 Spell Points.
Swifter Swipes: You gain 5% combat style attack speed while in bear forms. AP COST: 2 Requires: Swift Swipes
Ursa Protector: AP COST: 1 Choose one of the following three bonuses which apply while in either Bear Form with Nature's Defense Stance active:

Ursa's Heart: +15%/20%/25% Competence bonus to maximum Hit Points
Ursa's Spirit: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Constitution
Ursa's Strength: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to Strength
Force of Nature: You gain 10/15/20% resistance against force damage and 1/2/3 Constitution. AP COST: 1


1. This change is to give bear druid tanks the bump they lose in PRR now that Shield Mastery is officially not a wildshape compatible ability. Where as Nature's Fury distinguishes further changes in the tree to facilitate the dual-identity crisis of the tree and further pushes Tank vs DPS into more refined roles. These are to be two seperate defensive stances. The only difference being that Nature's Protector remains the same as now with the additional 20PRR and Nature's Fury stands to be a DPS stance with less hate gain/aggro management.
2. This change is to give a more 'beneficial' core at level 6. This helps mirror Barbarians (Ravager's Pain Touch/Frenzied's Frenzy) and reintroduces the blunt damage breaker portion of bear form. It also moves Heavy Armor profiency to T2, better aiding caster druid splashes as it's tucked into Thick Hide. (Net gain difference 11AP vs the new 8AP cost)
3. This change is due to the fact Tremor is unlocked at druid level 11. The original position of Big Bear made it useless for splash builds and worse for pure builds. Placing it here gives the smaller barbarian splashed builds a break, helps bear druids along earlier, and leaves room for more substantial bonuses for pure druids at level 18.
4. The idea for this change was to take a bit from the rules of size modifiers and use it for an unique effect. The range increase should only be about as far Dark Imbuement from Shadow Dancer, though I'd argue a bit shorter is fine. You also build upon the damage proc in the Core 6 and round off with a bonus similar to the druid spell Rising Fury, but one that doesn't need to be cast. Or perhaps this should just provide a permanent Rising Fury spell effect.
5. Just a small flavorful change. Adds more CC to bears without being too powerful.
6. This is an obvious change to myself. If we can now have Destruction Domain, there's no reason to prevent a raging druid from casting their own spells. Particularly heals. If you want to penalize DPS casting then add a DC hit similar to Tenser's. Additionally by tying the timer bonus to the DPS stance you solve the desire for longer rage.
7. This change is based on the slight annoyance of gaining and maintaining stacks for the use of Savage Roar, while increasing the cap for both damage purposes and a new T4 ability.
8. Again a small quality of life change for the DPS stance. This puts the bear at 45% glancing blows, 5% below Greater Two Handed Fighting and 15% below barbarians.
9. Already touched this one, but merely a reshuffling of the Heavy Armor proficiency to match the Core 6 change.
10. This change is to give a bit more survivability to a raging bear. Not as powerful as Blood Strength or I Like Pain but a small thematic boost.
11. Changing the damage to better scale based on my observations from both Lamannia previews. Clarified that it only removes 3 stacks of Killer Instinct due to the new T4 ability.
12. Removed the MRR bonus to instead have a Strength option. There was already an overkill of MRR in the tree.
13. This is just movement of the original 5% attack speed from Big Bear at core 18.
14. The heal. I wanted to see something more similar to One Spirit from Occult Slayer to replace the mess that is Spirit Renewal. I decided ultimately that with the change to being able to cast spells while raged, that this doesn't need to be neither a T5 nor super powerful. At a pure base of 200HP before melee power this will work in all heroic levels as a solid panic heal. It'll continue to work in epics as well. With the melee power scaling it should last until legendary. Once you reach Reaper it diminishes a bit, but becomes another good panic/top off ability. It also keeps the heal's usefulness tied to primal classes. With the Wilderness lore use barbarian splashes benefit.

edrein
03-28-2018, 12:31 PM
Weapons and shields should no longer erroneously display while in animal shape under certain conditions


Afraid this is still occurring. I see my dethek runestone poking out of my direbear body.

edrein
03-28-2018, 01:04 PM
New round of bugs:

Confirmed Dethek Runestone does not stack with any weapon that has Impact, Keen, etc. If it adds +W then Dethek Runestone will only provide +1W. This also includes Vistani Deadly Blades.
Vistani Single Dagger no longer works with wildshape forms at all. However, Vistani Double Daggers applies the 20% offhand chance. As does Aasimar Scourge's past life offhand doublestrike.
Big Bear erroneously states it still gives the 5-8 damage and scales 300% with melee power. (I was hoping that was true!)
Confront Any Foe and Strike Down still have animation/activation issues in bear form. If you move Strike Down will miss no matter what and Confront Any Foe seems to freeze up and delays about 2-3 seconds before delivering damage. Strike Down also removes momentum/stops you in place similar to the bug with Battle Engineer attacks.
Unyielding Sentinel's Smite Evil has a damage delay in bear form.
Cleave and Great Cleave in bear form use a forced animation which breaks attack flow substantially compared to cleaving non-wildshaped.
The cleave animation problem is worse while moving as it performs a long wind-up leap.
Great Cleave seems to be doublestriking/hitting twice. Figured this out. Only occurs when no mainhand item is equipped.
Great Maul is currently broken and doesn't deal damage.

edrein
03-28-2018, 01:27 PM
Additional suggestions:

Beyond reworking the DCs to actually be functional in content beyond normal as pointed out several times over. There still needs to be a reduction in the cooldown on animal form spells.
It takes way too long to use the animal attacks in comparison to every other clickie-heavy class combo out there. This wouldn't be bad if it wasn't for adding mechanics like Killer Instinct that requires maintaining stacks.

The animal attacks don't proc Arcane Warrior which is a huge oversight. Well, they proc the spell power portion not the melee power portion as if they were normal melee attacks.

I'd also suggest changing the bear form attacks to be cleaves.
Maul should work on par with normal cleave, Shred could function as Great Cleave. Allow Great Maul to work as a great cleave as well if possible. Tremor is now working as an AoE attack so that's fine.

Torc
03-28-2018, 02:00 PM
Just dropping in to thank you for all the feedback and bug reports. We haven't had time to post much because are very busy fixing things and getting the dungeons ready for this update.

I confess we are behind on bear issues somewhat and haven't had time to re-evaluate some enhancements in view of feedback. That should change soon.

We should have more progress there by next week.

Clarify a few things...

1> Innate attack DCs - The whole use wilderness lore thing had some problems which made us "reset" them as it were. They're not final and we're evaluating what to boost.

2> Beast Rage duration wasn't nerfed as far as I can tell.... (not sure where that 40 seconds came from, maybe an old preview post?) Anyway... that whole line is getting reviewed, as is renewed spirit.

-T

Avocado
03-28-2018, 02:08 PM
Seems the nature's protector stance is buggy. Tier 1 stance improvement adds 50% threat regardless of what you actually choose (saves or prr/mrr). Tier 2 only gives prr/mrr and tier 3 gives the saves.

edrein
03-28-2018, 02:32 PM
Just dropping in to thank you for all the feedback and bug reports. We haven't had time to post much because are very busy fixing things and getting the dungeons ready for this update.

I confess we are behind on bear issues somewhat and haven't had time to re-evaluate some enhancements in view of feedback. That should change soon.

We should have more progress there by next week.

Clarify a few things...

1> Innate attack DCs - The whole use wilderness lore thing had some problems which made us "reset" them as it were. They're not final and we're evaluating what to boost.

2> Beast Rage duration wasn't nerfed as far as I can tell.... (not sure where that 40 seconds came from, maybe an old preview post?) Anyway... that whole line is getting reviewed, as is renewed spirit.

-T

That's good news to hear, I hope my proposal will be highly considered.

But seriously. One Dagger: Can we please get this to work with offhands beyond just runearms? Even if it won't work for druids. Swashbucklers could use it, as could anyone running an orb. (Although I'd love for it to work as I want a good reason to wear my Dethek Runestone assuming the stacking +W bonuses get fixed.)

And take your time on druids. I cannot emphasize this enough. Everyone both ingame and on the forums would rather you take the extra time to get this right rather than push out a half baked buggy 'pass' to coincide with U38s initial release.

SerPounce
03-28-2018, 02:54 PM
Just dropping in to thank you for all the feedback and bug reports. We haven't had time to post much because are very busy fixing things and getting the dungeons ready for this update.

I confess we are behind on bear issues somewhat and haven't had time to re-evaluate some enhancements in view of feedback. That should change soon.

We should have more progress there by next week.

Clarify a few things...

1> Innate attack DCs - The whole use wilderness lore thing had some problems which made us "reset" them as it were. They're not final and we're evaluating what to boost.

2> Beast Rage duration wasn't nerfed as far as I can tell.... (not sure where that 40 seconds came from, maybe an old preview post?) Anyway... that whole line is getting reviewed, as is renewed spirit.

-T

Thanks for stopping in! I'm glad you're still looking at the innate attack DCs. I really encourage you to have druid levels be part of the calculation. It's a good way to make a little dent in the power you get from multiclasing (divine might, feats, martial weapons, tactics boost). Also adding tactics boosts to the 5/6 cores would help.

On the topic of innate attacks, as Edrein noted the cooldowns and SP costs should be looked at also. Some of them (jaws of winter is a good example) have really excessive coldowns.

songswrath
03-28-2018, 03:32 PM
some options are needed here it is dumb the way it is now.you depend on others to keep you alive or dismiss rage. like to see one of the following
1 something like >Accelerated Metabolism: While barbarian raging, you gain 20 healing amplification and heal 3d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power
2 Blood Strength: Each time you land a hit there is a 12% chance you heal positive damage equal to half your Barbarian level. Each time you kill an opponent you are healed for 20 hit points. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power. Blood Strength has a one-second cooldown when you kill an enemy
3 or something like from Destruction Domain >>You can cast your Cleric spells while raging. but druid spells only
As it is set up now nobody will even think of tier 5 for bears would just take 6 lvls of barb and be done with it

songswrath
03-28-2018, 03:40 PM
combat style attack speed bonus. >> why are they always at core 5 or 6. the best part of ddo is custom builds. Stuff like this takes it away from that . add it to the revamp Natural Weapon Fighting feats or some where in tree

edrein
03-28-2018, 03:50 PM
some options are needed here it is dumb the way it is now.you depend on others to keep you alive or dismiss rage. like to see one of the following
1 something like >Accelerated Metabolism: While barbarian raging, you gain 20 healing amplification and heal 3d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power
2 Blood Strength: Each time you land a hit there is a 12% chance you heal positive damage equal to half your Barbarian level. Each time you kill an opponent you are healed for 20 hit points. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power. Blood Strength has a one-second cooldown when you kill an enemy
3 or something like from Destruction Domain >>You can cast your Cleric spells while raging. but druid spells only
As it is set up now nobody will even think of tier 5 for bears would just take 6 lvls of barb and be done with it


combat style attack speed bonus. >> why are they always at core 5 or 6. the best part of ddo is custom builds. Stuff like this takes it away from that . add it to the revamp Natural Weapon Fighting feats or some where in tree

Take a look at my proposed changes on the second page. It's a qoute of the original bear tree and my suggestions are in orange. They will help assuage your concerns and desires.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/495172-U38-Preview-2-Druid?p=6082736&viewfull=1#post6082736 For the quick link.

Avocado
03-28-2018, 03:50 PM
That's good news to hear, I hope my proposal will be highly considered.

But seriously. One Dagger: Can we please get this to work with offhands beyond just runearms? Even if it won't work for druids. Swashbucklers could use it, as could anyone running an orb. (Although I'd love for it to work as I want a good reason to wear my Dethek Runestone assuming the stacking +W bonuses get fixed.)

And take your time on druids. I cannot emphasize this enough. Everyone both ingame and on the forums would rather you take the extra time to get this right rather than push out a half baked buggy 'pass' to coincide with U38s initial release.

Maybe they should make coincide with the swashy buffs that allow to swashbuckle with a specific weapon in your offhand. If you have orb swashbuckle enhancement you can now also benefit from single dagger with an orb. But they should at least fix the bug where it doesn't work with some builds while wielding 1 dagger.

Sormiron
03-28-2018, 03:58 PM
I´m a bit frustrated by druid bears at this moment. Do not get me wrong, i tried it in the previous preview and it was very fun to play with tremor, great maul, onslaugt knockdown thingy and the charge.

The problem I have is that it is supposed to make you make a choice. Go for strenght for damage and dc´s, wisdom for dc´s or con for tanking.

Right now it is stuck in between strength and con with both half done and better off multiclassing for better dc´s or tanking trees. Wisdom is not even there.
The Rage is not that impressive, at t5 it does give +50% threat wich I wouldnt want to use if I went for a dc/damage build anyhow. the thing I´d want from t5 is mostly the charge and mostly becoouse it is fun, the rest is kinda meh.

If I was a tank I wouldnt want to be enraged and unable to use spells to keep me or someone else up in reaper. I´d probably get 6 fighter and get stalwart defender for better pretty much anything but hp as my dc´s would not be good enough for the stuff in there anyways.

I think the choice should be clearer between going tank or cc bot with some damage.

the +50% increased threat i t5 Beast Unleashed could be removed/moved somewhere else and replaced with the ability to cast druid spells in bear shape. that would give a bit more of a reason to stay in the high tiers of natures defender.

ursa protector should probably have a strength or a tactical improvement option.

I really, really want the bear shape to work out. it has the potential to be so much fun.

Kza
03-28-2018, 04:23 PM
Caster druid:

Consider 4 wis 0 con in capstone plz

Consider 1 more casterlvl and maxcaster lvl in a core
As 1 was taken away from live capstone

Consider add transmutation dc at all places you have evocation.

With those changes nothing was nerfed from live and some nice
Things added. Except spell peneteation-

And Plz let the capstone get massfrog as a spell on a 1 min cooldown, and
A separate timer than the featspell. Did i mention massfrog is funniest spell
In game? :-)

(I like the changes but think some room to boost dc and dps still would make
Class more in par with other pure casters)

Thanks for reading!

Arkai
03-28-2018, 04:41 PM
Caster druid:

Consider 4 wis 0 con in capstone plz

Consider 1 more casterlvl and maxcaster lvl in a core
As 1 was taken away from live capstone

Consider add transmutation dc at all places you have evocation.

With those changes nothing was nerfed from live and some nice
Things added. Except spell peneteation-

And Plz let the capstone get massfrog as a spell on a 1 min cooldown, and
A separate timer than the featspell. Did i mention massfrog is funniest spell
In game? :-)

(I like the changes but think some room to boost dc and dps still would make
Class more in par with other pure casters)

Thanks for reading!
`
I think caster druid is not gonna change since they seem to be focusing on animal forms.

I already asked about the fire elemental form giving -3 casters levels to lightning or acid (BUG?) but got no response tho.

edrein
03-28-2018, 05:13 PM
Maybe they should make coincide with the swashy buffs that allow to swashbuckle with a specific weapon in your offhand. If you have orb swashbuckle enhancement you can now also benefit from single dagger with an orb. But they should at least fix the bug where it doesn't work with some builds while wielding 1 dagger.

I'd be fine with this, although the issue is you'd have to go back and make similar enhancements in several trees. Such as Vanguard/Defender for Pally since Blood of Vol. Or putting it in Eldritch Knight, etc. So on and so forth. I'm hoping they just go with the blanket change and change both the effect and wording to be, "When wielding a dagger in your main hand and no -weapon- in your offhand." That way shields, orbs, runearms, and no hand can all work with it.

unbongwah
03-28-2018, 05:46 PM
I inferred from the description that Single Dagger is supposed to only work with Single Weapon Fighting style. But if that's the correct interpretation, then it's still bugged since it doesn't work with orbs at all, right? Likewise would need clarification on if it should work with Skirmisher, since it currently doesn't.

Whereas if the devs mean for Single Dagger to apply any time your equipment setup is "dagger mainhand / not-a-weapon offhand," then that needs to be fixed too.

EDIT: my point being (A) the description is confusing and ambiguous and (B) the current implementation is buggy regardless of how it's supposed to work. Fixing both issues would be nice.

edrein
03-28-2018, 05:50 PM
I inferred from the description that Single Dagger is supposed to only work with Single Weapon Fighting style. But if that's the correct interpretation, then it's still bugged since it doesn't work with orbs at all, right? Likewise would need clarification on if it should work with Skirmisher, since it currently doesn't.

Whereas if the devs mean for Single Dagger to apply any time your equipment setup is "dagger mainhand / not-a-weapon offhand," then that needs to be fixed too.

I always assumed the reason offhands aren't working was a fear/speculation that players would run a Dagger mainhand and -insert weapon- offhand while TWF for the 20MP boost. I figure that also caused a coding issue they haven't gotten around to yet as to why it's currently working with runearms (as they aren't typed as a 'weapon'). After all shields and orbs technically are weapons in the way they are typed with base damage values, enhancement bonuses, etc.

Claver
03-28-2018, 07:07 PM
Having played around a bit with the bear my conclusion is Natures Protector tree needs some very strong abilities in core 5 and or at the capstone to make it worth playing a druid rather than a barbarian with druid levels

1. Rage prevents most druid spells other than animal form spells like maul, roar and shred
2. These animal form spells are relatively low level meaning there is less incentive for a rage bear to take more than 3 to 7 levels of druid since the other druid non-animal spells can't be cast while raged
3. The Nature's Protector tree incentivizes playing an enraged bear.
4. If you are going to go with rage you are better off making barbarian the primary class and the druid the splash class



3 or something like from Destruction Domain >>You can cast your Cleric spells while raging. but druid spells only
As it is set up now nobody will even think of tier 5 for bears would just take 6 lvls of barb and be done with it

There needs to be a strong incentive for a bear form druid to play as a druid and not as a barbarian

My suggestion would be a core 6 capstone that functions like the Destruction Domain and allows all druid spells to be cast while raged.

The current capstone reducing spell casting time from 2 down to 1.5 is of little use to rage bears who can only cast 5 or so spell while raged in bear form anyway.

Torc
03-28-2018, 08:31 PM
`
I think caster druid is not gonna change since they seem to be focusing on animal forms.

I already asked about the fire elemental form giving -3 casters levels to lightning or acid (BUG?) but got no response tho.

This was part of the original design of the forms. TBD if their going to stay or go. It is perhaps redunant reinforcement that you should switch forms before playing the other side of the elements with a druid.

Pilgrim1
03-28-2018, 08:55 PM
This was part of the original design of the forms. TBD if their going to stay or go. It is perhaps redunant reinforcement that you should switch forms before playing the other side of the elements with a druid.

Please please please do not include -3 CL to druid forms. Druid’s really have a problem focusing on a single element due to limitations of there spell selections. It’s already hard to spec for multiple elements, don’t penelize and pigionhole caster druid even more.

edrein
03-28-2018, 08:56 PM
This was part of the original design of the forms. TBD if their going to stay or go. It is perhaps redunant reinforcement that you should switch forms before playing the other side of the elements with a druid.

Or perhaps you could just give us Earth and Air elemental forms for druid? Just give us the versions Savants get. We can wait on proper mantle spells, just let them temporarily use Water mantle.

edrein
03-28-2018, 10:51 PM
This was part of the original design of the forms. TBD if their going to stay or go. It is perhaps redunant reinforcement that you should switch forms before playing the other side of the elements with a druid.

Honestly, if it were up to me. I'd separate force spell power from the seasons entirely. As this would benefit all druids.

Currently druids have the following spells effected by force:
Splinterbolt
Spike Growth
Ice Storm bludgeon portion
Salt Ray
Earthquake
Iceflowers piercing portion


Three of those; Iceflowers, Earthquake, and Icestorm aren't force spells as far as CL boosts are concerned.

What I'd suggestion is to add a third 'season' to the Wax and Wane enhancement line consisting of Force, Light, and Sonic. This is due to these being 'universal' for all druids. And frankly due to change in wording for Wax and Wane, it seems like the bonuses are now entirely seasonal based rather than being universal crit like on live. Make these three spell types be universal and unattached so that druids can make good use of the Salt Ray and Word of Balance SLAs without being in Fire Elemental form.

Bonus points if the Force spells could be updated to better scale rather than being useful only in low heroics. I'd love to make use of spike growth like the various Vine Stalkers we fight, but it's easily saved against and the damage is awful by mid heroics.


If the druid pass can be delayed for the better overall health of the druid pass, I'd say please do. I'd love to see the seasons properly split into 'four' based elemental seasons. Or merely swap lightning into Summer season with the arrival of the Earth and Air elemental forms. Additional kudos if an earth and air mantle spell could be made (but I know that's an art asset thing). I'd almost say give Earth an acid/vine growth that works and looks similar to Enlightened Spirit's Eldritch Aura (albeit green). Air could be a form of Call Lightning Storm that is constantly active with a much more delayed time between lightning strikes and perhaps a whirlwind guard for anything getting close. It doesn't have to be super powerful, merely thematic and expands the borders and options for druids as a whole. (Which is what everyone wants I believe.)

bbqzor
03-28-2018, 11:21 PM
Master of the Elements: Gain 5/10/15 spell power in your season. Passive rank 3: Changing into Fire Elemental form now grants you the "Anger of the Noon Day Sun" effect. Changing into Water Elemental Form now grants you the "Icy Mantle" effect. (Update: Removed the 17 Druid levels requirement for the rank 3 passive.)

So question: While 15 spell power isn't insignificant (for an enhancement anyhow), the fact that it is in tier 5 is, I would imagine, almost solely based on the fact that at rank 3 it gives you the quality-of-life effect of automatically casting/maintaining the relevant elemental form buff. Without that effect, 15 spell power, to one season at a time only, could easily fit in or parallel many other enhancements throughout the game, at a lot of different enhancement tiers.

However: Lv20 Druids get 6 lv9 spell slots. There are only 6 lv9 spells. This enhancement does nothing to create any amount of choice in spell selection, as a result of it performing that quality of life function.

Suggestion: Add a single new lv9 Druid spell. Two would be better, but even adding One would allow druids with this enhancement to at least swap out one effect for something else, rather than see literally Two-Thirds of their lv9 spell list be entirely pointless.

It is disappointing to get those last few lv9 slots and see zero functional change in game play. I realize more spells isn't a full on thing right now, but this is an area where player agency is easily served; literally any option will create diversity. While this has always been the scenario facing druids, at least before you might cast any of those 6 spells. Now, two of them will do nothing except fill up slots. The time to strike is now! Players should not be forced into taking spells they literally will not use, because its already on. Thank you.

(ps. Cleric and Ranger are the two other classes which have a similar "zero-choice" scenario at the top spell level; the other classes all have choices, regardless of how obvious the few good options might be. Druid spells could easily also be Ranger spells, hitting two birds at once so to speak, with this addition. Or, a lower level druid spell could show up as a 9th for clerics, hitting 3 birds. Just a thought while youre in there).

Silverleafeon
03-28-2018, 11:45 PM
Cocomajobo;6082361]NOTE:
This color means a that this thing was not in the first preview.
This color means that this thing was in the first preview.
Feedback


GENERAL CHANGES

Wild Shape

Water and Fire Elemental form will now grant 65% Absorption to their element, instead of Damage Reduction, and 15% Vulnerability to their opposite element. The bonus will not stack with Fire Shields or Fire Energy Sheath. Absorption from items and other abilities still work.

This I like. Thank you.

There is a new toggle feat that druids get at level 13 (with their first elemental body pick) that disables the textures for elemental forms

Should led into tech for elemental cosmetics and the like.
Overall, nice.

Can be artificially induced using stoneskin/camo spells.



Specific Spell Changes

[ Take Down's DC scales with highest of STR,DEX, or WIS modifier.

Jaws of Winter DC scales with the higher of STR, DEX, or WIS modifier

Tremor DC scales with the higher of STR or WIS modifier

Nice alternative ability choices.

Reincarnate's casting time and cool down will be put on par with Raise Dead.[/INDENT]

A much needed very welcome change. This will help Animal forms too, even at the higher cooldown penalty.

Creeping Doom will now do acid damage and benefit form acid spell power. Each character can have their own copy of this dot on a target.

Enveloping Swarm has been re-designed as a single target instant application dot instead of a damage shield effect. Each character can have their own copy of this dot on a target. Target is enveloped by insects taking 2d8 acid damage + 1d8 for every 3 druid levels every 2 seconds for 16 seconds. SP Cost: 10 Meta Magics: Max, Intensify, Empower, Enlarge, Heighten Reflex save for half each tick

Sweet, looking forward to see how these two do.


Produce Flame Projectile speed is being increased

Another very welcome change.
This spell is considered by some to be the cornerstone of the Sorcerer 4/Druid 16 fire builds.
No longer will we see a ball of flame slowly chasing down a moving monster.

Creeping cold and Greater creeping cold will now stack with each other when cast by other druids (two can each have their own copy on a target now)

A long welcome change. Thank you.


Anger of the Noon Day Sun Creatures affected who were immune/resistant/healed by to fire now take full damage. Will not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%. -8% fortification

Mantle of Ice Creatures affected who were immune/resistant/healed by to cold now take full damage. Will not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%. 10% attack speed slow 25% movement speed slow -4 to fort/reflex saves

Big improvements to these two spells.
Thank you.
One of Sorcerer/Druid weaknesses is facing elemental immune foes.


Elemental Toughness Target: Self DR removed. Now grants 1 physical resistance per druid level for the duration of the spell. Lasts 30 seconds a druid level Costs 25 spell points Metas: Quicken Extend

This spell will now actually be useful in Epic Levels.
Thank you.

Fires of Purity Fire DR penalty has been changed to a 10% vulnerability penalty

Hmm....this is actually significant.
It encourages pure druid, because it requires a luxury spell slot.
This might actually make more fire Druids cast weapon buffs on the party.

Salt Ray now causes the helpless state when enemies fail their save.

[color=red]Nice, thank you!


Spike Growth visual has been adjusted to reduce the amount it blocks view

Sweet, you just removed the biggest objection to this spell, making it much more party friendly.
This will also make the "Elder Dryad" summons to be the best summons in game.
Adding this spell to my creative cloud casting list.

Shillelagh is now a self buff that enchants any wooden weapon you wield for it's duration. While the enchant stays on the player casting other weapon enchants will suspend it until the weapon is re-equips and it clears other temp weapon enchants.

Ok, umm...are there any endgame wooden weapons?
Does anything other than a Qstaff use wood?

Looks like the Bonesplitter is made of wood.
Wondering if a Great Club build will appreciate thus?

Call Lightning Storm now deals 1d10 Electric Damage per 2 Caster Levels each time an enemy is struck with Lightning.

Ok, let us compare the upgrade and how it affects a Level Cap Pure Druid in a Primal Epic Destiny.

Old = Affects one target every 3 seconds doing 5~50 electric damage = average base damage of 27.5 (37.5 with DDO spell dice?)

New = Affects one target every 3 seconds doing (1d10(25/2)) = 12.5~125 electric damage = average base damage of 68.75
{However, DDO tends to use a variant on spell damage dice ~ 1d10 = 5 to 10 damage.
If this holds true for this spell, then new average would be 93.75}

Regardless this appears to be an upgrade in base damage of 3x old amount.

This seems significantly better and should encourage players to use this spell more often, particularly Shirdai casters.

Storm of Vengeance now deals 1d3 Acid Damage per Caster Level every two seconds to enemies in the area.
Storm of Vengeance now deals 1d10 Electric Damage per 2 Caster Levels each time an enemy is struck with Lightning.

Ok, let us compare the old with the upgrade.

Old Acid Damage = 8d6 acid damage every two seconds to every monster inside the storm ~ average damage = 28 acid damage (36 with DDO spell dice?)
Old Electric Damage = 10d10 electric damage every four seconds to a random target ~ average damage = 55 electric damage (75 with DDO spell dice?)

New Acid Damage = (1d3(25/2)) = 25 acid damage (31.25 with DDO spell dice?)
New Electric Damage = same as Call Lighting Storm = (1d10(25/2)) = 12.5~125 electric damage = average base damage of 68.75
(93.75 with DDO spell dice?)


At first glance, it appears to be a slight nerf on the Acid Damage, along with a increase on the Electric damage.

However, if you take a Birds Eye Point of View and assume the future will deal with Epic Spell Caster levels, then your numbers will change into:

New Acid Damage cast at Caster level 30 = (1d3(30/2)) = 30 acid damage (37.5 with DDO spell dice)

This is actually extremely close to the old acid damage.

Which gives me cause to think that the "big summer announcement" might involve Epic Destinies being increased to level 10 (with Epic Destiny Levels being gated by Epic Levels) which would include an automatic increase in Caster Levels via a character's prime Epic Sphere. Of course, I could be way off as I don't have an inside information on the announcement.

Spellcasters start lacking power in Epic Levels and stand to gain the most out of any increase in Epic Destiny levels.

Of course, Magistar & Draconic lack true innate abilities, but their main failing is not having enough points to spend to gain their true potential.

Look thru Draconic and notice that it takes a full 40 points to make a quality type dragon build: taking only Int, Energy Burst, and Dragon Breath/Flight/Casting themes.

Since most spells don't scale well into Epics, Spell Casters need more Epic support than Melee/Ranged builds.

It also takes a full 40 points to make a proper Magistar build, using Int, Null Magic & DC boosts.

The other issue with Epic Spell Casting is the non scaling of MetaMagic feats.

This could easily be solved by adding a "+X universal spell power per Epic Level" to Empower Spells where X = (75/20) = 3.75 which assumes that Empower is set for level 20 cap and this scales Empower thru the Epic levels proportionately.

Maximize would obviously be doubled.

Empowered Healing would only apply to Devotion.

(Adding a small bonus of +50 spell points to each metamagic feat would be nice but not necessary.)



Wolf Pet

The death of a Druid's Wolf pet will no longer cause the Druid to lose hit points and spell points
Druids now have 3 pet revivals each rest instead of 1


Allowing Druids & Artificers to fire and forget their pets will show a lot more pet use in game.

Feats

The Epic Feat "Master of the Wilds" now includes the spell "Salt Ray"

This is huge!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Long have Druids lacked a non elemental SLA and this answers the gap very well.

Most Druid Casters should seriously consider Master of the Wilds, and now even more so.

Suddenly Druids have a new spell to add Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Heighten, Enlarge.
Being able to Heighten this spell for free will make it much more Epic Worthy.

Master of the Wilds will increase the Maximum Caster level to 20 instead of 10.
Using MotW feat this spell will now do 10d6 force damage = 35 base force damage (45 with DDO spell dice?) with a fort save for Stun. Since the stun now grants helpless for +50% extra damage (+30% more with sense weakness) this should become a popular rotation sla for Druids in the future.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 01:14 AM
Cocomajobo;6082363]SEASONS HERALD

Cores


Child of Summer: You gain the ability Child of Summer: Activate to grant +5 Spellpower when casting fire, force, light, sonic and positive spells. This seasonal Spellpower is multiplied by one for every Core enhancement possessed in Season's Herald (starting with this one), up to +30 when you have all six Enhancements. Lasts until death or change of season. Fire Elemental form changes you into this season automatically. Passive: +1 Universal Spellpower per AP spent in this tree.

Definately liking the change in seasons to toggle form.
Thank you!
Also like that Fire Form auto toggles seasons, making changing forms or recovering from death easier.


Elder of Winter: You gain Child of Winter: Activate to gain +5 Spellpower when casting Cold, Acid, Electric, and Negative spells per core in this tree. Lasts until death or season change. Water elemental form changes you into this season automatically. Passive: +1 caster levels to spells in your active season.

Nice to be able to control seasons, thanks for the +1 caster level in active seaons.

Wellspring: +1 Max Caster Level for spells appropriate to your season. The effects of your shillelagh spell are doubled.

A +1 Max Caster Level is appreciated.

The Shillelagh spell is a unique low level spell, however its +1 [w] on Quarter Staffs is equal to the Artificier's Deadly Weapons spell. This extra bonus of doubling the spell does make it worthy of Quarter Staffs.

Not sure about the placement in a caster tree, however it is significant that at level six a Druid caster is still highly dependant upon a Qstaff or fighting in wolf form. It is not until level 8 that Druids come into their own as a true spellcaster.

Sun Burst: Gain Sun Burst as an SLA, SP: 4, Cooldown: 20 seconds (new – lowered cooldown)

Great SLA. Thanks for lowering its long cooldown. Its a nice lead spell to hit a group of mobs with.

Storm of Vengeance: Gain Storm of Vengeance as an SLA, SP 20 cost. 2 minute cool down.

Given the improvements in Lighting damage of this spell, its a great SLA. Thank you for keeping it here. The small decrease in Acid Damage over the older version will hopefully be outset by upcoming Summer Caster improvement.

Hierophant: You are wise and skilled in the art of wielding divine magic to summon aid and change the world around you. +2 Wisdom & Constitution. Your Conjuration and Evocation spells gain +1 DC, +1 caster level, and +1 max caster level in both seasons.

Overall, liking the exchange of transformation with evocation. This +2 Con is looking like a auto bonus for Pure Builds that will likely find its way into Sorcerer & Wizard.

Not going to quibble over an extra +2 wisdom when level cap toons approach 80+ wisdom depending upon their build.

Perhaps you could create a +9 tome that drops in future raids a few years from now.

Also you could make it up to us by actually considering increasing Epic Destinies from level 6 minus 1 xp to level 10. We sure could use the 40 epic destiny points along with the potential +1 for every 3 Epic Destiny levels. There would be 5 new levels per Epic Destiny times twelve Epic Destinies = 60 new levels = 20 extra fate points. Since there are 37 potential fate points, adding an additional 20 making a total of 57 would be very interesting.

Currently a typical twist slot set up is 4/3/2/1/1 which costs 35 points.
Upgrading to a 4/4/4/2/1 would cost 21 extra fate points for a total of 56 points.



Tier 1

Beguile: Whenever you attack or cast a spell on an enemy, there is a 50% chance to Beguile an affected enemy [1/1-2/1-3] times for 3 seconds. Beguile: -2% attack speed, -2 Spellpower. Beguile stacks up to 25 times, and one stack fades every few seconds. Up to one enemy affected each second (by up to [1/2/3] stacks). Does not affect bosses. AP COST: 1

Not a big fan of Beguile, so thank you for removing it from the SLA group.

Shared Spirit: Your wolf pet gains 3/6/10% bonus to its maximum hit points. Passive: You gain 1/2/3 spell power. AP COST: 1

Pets are still needing buffs, and this grants USP as well, thanks.

Produce Flame: Spell Like Ability: Produce Flame. Cost: 6/5/3, Cooldown: 10/6/4 AP COST: 1

Available at level 1 instead of 2 is very nice.
Again, thanks for the decrease in cooldown.

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic

Typical.
Nice to have Force added to Summer.

Druidic Wisdom: Gain a +1/2/4 to heal, spellcraft, and diplomancy skills. AP COST: 1

Spellcraft and healz.
Thanks.


Tier 2

Efficient MetaMagic: Reduce the cost of a meta magic, empower, enlarge, maximize, quicken AP COST: 2
Efficient MetaMagic: Reduce the cost of a meta magic, empower, enlarge, maximize, quicken AP COST: 2

Removal of Spell Pen check from Word of Balance makes only Finger of Death requiring a spell pen check.
Hope to see the Efficient Metamagic in all caster trees reduced to cost of 1 per rank.
Hope to see Metamagics increase by +x spellpower per Epic Levels (suggest 3.75 for Empower Spell).

Creeping Cold: Spell Like Ability: Creeping Cold (Cost: [6/5/3] SP. Cooldown: [12/10/8] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires produce flame

Nice to see available at level 2 instead of 3.

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic

nods

Action Boost: Spell Power: Action boost grants 10/20/30 spell power for 20 seconds. 30 second cool down. AP COST: 1

Nice for button pushing or able to be ignored.


Tier 3

Autumn Leaves: Toggle to be shielded by autumn winds. Under this effect gain feather fall, +3 dodge, and a 10% chance to knock down any enemy that strikes you in melee. Costs: 8 SP Lasts until death or toggled off AP COST: 1

Cool new effect.
Nice to have free feather fall.
A bit of extra dodge is nice too.
The knockdown effect might be helpful for caster tanks.

Efficient Heighten AP COST: 2

Good ability that is too expensive.

Call Lightning: Spell Like Ability: Call Lightning (Cost: [10/8/6] SP. Cooldown: [12/8/6] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires: Creeping cold

Decrease in cooldown by 25% along with available at level 3 instead of level 4 is nice.

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic

Typical expected well done.
Wisdom +1 AP COST: 2
Typical expected well done.


Tier 4

Spring Resurgence: Fill an ally with the vitality of spring. When that ally falls below 50% hit points, that ally and any other allies near him are healed by 20d6 positive energy, and receive a +2 primal bonus to attack rolls. (Lasts 5 minutes or until triggered.) (Activation Cost: [8/6/4] Spell Points.) Cooldown: [8/4/2] seconds) AP COST: 1

Decreased cooldown and bug fixes here appreciated.

Strength of the Solstice: +1 to the save DC's of your Evocation and Conjuration spells AP COST: 2

Moving from tier 5 to tier 4 is nice, allowing investment by future healing trees.

I believe when I checked the D&D 5th edition player's handbook, a spell did change Schools.

Please change the first level Druid Entangle Spell's school from Transmutation to Conjuration.
Reference D&D 5th ed PH page 238.

Salt Ray: Spell Like Ability: Salt Ray (Cost: [12/10/8] SP. Cooldown: [12/10/8] seconds) AP COST: 1

Excellent choice for a SLA.

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season. -AP COST: 2

Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, and Negative
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force, and Sonic
Wisdom +1 AP COST: 2


Tier 5

Crown of Summer: A target of your choice is filled with the light and vitality of summer. That target gains a 15% enhancement bonus to Healing Amplification, 10 Melee Power, and 5 Ranged Power. (Activation Cost: 1 Spell Point. Cooldown: 6 seconds) Only one target can have the crown at a time. AP COST: 1

The melee power will help this ability exist better with Deadly Weapons and Shillelagh as this is no longer a weapon buff that is overwritten by other weapon buffs.

Master of the Elements: Gain 5/10/15 spell power in your season. Passive rank 3: Changing into Fire Elemental form now grants you the "Anger of the Noon Day Sun" effect. Changing into Water Elemental Form now grants you the "Icy Mantle" effect. (Update: Removed the 17 Druid levels requirement for the rank 3 passive.)

Cool auto change effects.
Thank you.
Nice extra spellpower which Druids can use in their rainbow of various spells.
Definately good to remove the level restriction as 16 levels of Druid is enough to gain Earthquake, and become a viable caster.

Word of Balance: Spell Like Ability: Word of Balance (Cost: [12/9/6] SP. Cooldown: [20/15/10] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires: Salt Ray

Reduction in cooldown by 33% is appreciated.
Also removing the Spell Pen check is appreciated.

Time and Tide: Increase your Caster Level and Max Caster Level by +1 AP COST: 2

Same as before and good.

Armor of Winter: Gain 8 times your wisdom in temporary Hit points that lasts 60 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds, Sp Cost: 12) AP COST: 2

Wow, actually rather nice.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 01:41 AM
This was part of the original design of the forms. TBD if their going to stay or go. It is perhaps redunant reinforcement that you should switch forms before playing the other side of the elements with a druid.

Quite confused here?

Yes, I can see the annoying -3 to opposing element fire/cold.
Sure I would like to have thus removed as Druid really have to cast Fire, Lightning & Cold SLAs every dungeon.
But with Master of Wilds, I guess I will live with it if it is not removed, especially if the Devs actually remember to raise Epic Destiny levels from 6 minus 1 xp to level 10 where they belong since the level cap is now 30 (if you search long enough you will find the Dev post that raised epic destiny points from 20 to 24 due to the fudge of raising from level 5 to level 6 minus 1 xp).

Someone mentioned -3 to earth and lightning spells which has never ever been my understanding to be part of the Druid design. That would be a bug. That should never be!!!



Per DDO Wiki:

Elemental forms
At levels 13 and 17 a druid may use their 'Wild Shape' feat to change into an elemental.
You are considered an elemental.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to your saving throws against magical poisons
You have racial immunity to natural poisons, sleep, paralysis and stun, and 100% bonus to fortification.
Elemental forms keep their equipped weapons after the transformation.
You must prepare your elemental form spells as normal and do not receive additional spell preparation slots for them.
Water Elemental
You gain +3 bonus to caster level and max caster level to water and cold spells.
Your fire spells get a -3 penalty to caster level and max caster level.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to cold resistance, and -10 electric resistance.
You have +20 swim skill
Form specific spells:Elemental Toughness, Freezing Spray, Ice Flowers, Mantle of the Icy Soul
Fire Elemental
You can breath indefinitely underwater
You gain +3 bonus to caster level and max caster level to fire spells.
Your water spells get a -3 penalty to caster level and max caster level.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to fire resistance, and have -10 cold resistance.
Form specific spells: Body of the Sun, Elemental Toughness, Fires of Purity, Anger of the Noonday Sun

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 01:45 AM
Is this just a rumor or do acid/electric caster level penalties exist?


Do I need to bug report thus now, or wait till it goes live and then ask for Quality Control to fix any penalty to electric and acid caster levels?

Not Happy if this bug exists or is allowed to happen!!

[]Insert pictures of pitchforks and torches here[]

Sorcerers and Druid differ in that Sorcerer gain many more bonuses to their favored element at the expense of the other elements while Druids are more rainbow casters.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 02:40 AM
By the way, if offered the exchange of:


Elimination of elemental form caster level penalties

for

Not getting Earth & Air elemental forms (never or at least for a long time)


Would definitely take that exchange.

One of the attractions of Air Form is placing the caster level penalty on Earth because Druids lack Acid spells (at least until this update).

So, if you eliminate the elemental form caster level penalties, you have also eliminated the main reason that I want Air form anyway.


This also has the advantage of a bigger class separation between Druids and Sorcerers.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 02:42 AM
Mentioning again:


D&D 5th Edition Player's Handbook page 238:

Entangled is now considered a conjuration school spell.

Haphazarduk
03-29-2018, 04:00 AM
I'm not sure if anyone else has picked up/commented on this but I'm very happy to have Force included in Summer and Negative in Winter for SH - opens up some nice new builds, especially the multiclass ones (which is more or less all I do!).

Hap

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 04:14 AM
I'm not sure if anyone else has picked up/commented on this but I'm very happy to have Force included in Summer and Negative in Winter for SH - opens up some nice new builds, especially the multiclass ones (which is more or less all I do!).

Hap

+1
Yes adding force is very nice.

Hmm...

Druid 4 -> +8 force crit chance
Favored Soul 4 -> +8 force crit chance
Wizard 12 -> Arch Mage tier 5/core 12

Epic Feats ~
21) Well Spring of Power
24) Master of Knowledge
26ED) Epic Spellpower (Force)
27) Ruin
28ED) Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
29ED) Arcane Pulse
30) Great Ruin
30L) Scion of the Plane of Fire

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 05:11 AM
Also if offered this compromise:



Water Elemental
You gain +2 bonus to caster level and max caster level to water and cold spells.
Your fire spells get a -1 penalty to caster level and max caster level.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to cold resistance, and -10 electric resistance.
You have +20 swim skill
Form specific spells:Elemental Toughness, Freezing Spray, Ice Flowers, Mantle of the Icy Soul


Fire Elemental
You can breath indefinitely underwater
You gain +2 bonus to caster level and max caster level to fire spells.
Your water spells get a -1 penalty to caster level and max caster level.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to fire resistance, and have -10 cold resistance.
Form specific spells: Body of the Sun, Elemental Toughness, Fires of Purity, Anger of the Noonday Sun



I would definately take that and consider it an upgrade.

Pilgrim1
03-29-2018, 10:54 AM
Honestly, if it were up to me. I'd separate force spell power from the seasons entirely. As this would benefit all druids.

Currently druids have the following spells effected by force:
Splinterbolt
Spike Growth
Ice Storm bludgeon portion
Salt Ray
Earthquake
Iceflowers piercing portion


Three of those; Iceflowers, Earthquake, and Icestorm aren't force spells as far as CL boosts are concerned.

You forgot the biggest one, word of balance.

unbongwah
03-29-2018, 11:12 AM
The thing which annoys me about elemental forms is not the caster level penalties per se, but that at any given time about half your druid SLAs are taking that penalty. It seems to me that Season's Herald should've been split into two trees - call `em Summer Herald and Winter Herald - with the relevant bonuses, SLAs, etc. put into each tree for each season, much as with sorcerer Savants. Those who want to specialize in only one season can do so (e.g., I'd like to do a hypothetical Winter Herald / Nature's Warrior hybrid wolf build); while those who want to alternate between seasons for more spell variety can invest in both Heralds.

But it's probably way too late in the process to go back and split the tree now, so oh well.

Kuunkukka
03-29-2018, 11:21 AM
This iteration of Doggy druid seems a lot better balanced than the last one. I tried a melee oriented 20 Druid with a transferred completionist character on Primal Avatar destiny, that had also been buffed in Lammannia (10 MP per core).
- Autoattack speed seems adequate. I twisted LD haste boost and naked doggy did hit with satisfactory frequence.
- Wielded weapon interaction still seems iffy/buggy/working only selectively:
1) Momentum swing does not work (wrong form notice)
2) Dog seems to get glancing blows randomly from alpha strike when wielding 2-hander
3) Item damage from oozes et cetera is a new source of worry for doggy druids. Just a 5 minute test run in the quest Creeping Death shattered a 21 hardness quarterstaff

Bugs in this instance of Lammannia:
- Druid got a barbarian version of "dismiss rage". This does not dismiss rage, but does impose the fatigue debuff.
- Ghost wolf pack AOE switches autoattack off

Opinions:
Personally, I didnt find animal form rage a very compelling mechanic; it is too big a tradeoff. Heals are an inherent part of playing even a splashed druid. If the rage shuts the heals down, it should REALLY change the way the character is played. Im looking at power level of Ravager tier5 heals/crit rage/autostuns from ear smash... preferably powering the NW tier5 abilites. Those seem quite cool.

edrein
03-29-2018, 11:26 AM
You forgot the biggest one, word of balance.

Word of Balance is light not force. Alignment spell power is light, hence the second post.

edrein
03-29-2018, 11:30 AM
This iteration of Doggy druid seems a lot better balanced than the last one. I tried a melee oriented 20 Druid with a transferred completionist character on Primal Avatar destiny, that had also been buffed in Lammannia (10 MP per core).
- Autoattack speed seems adequate. I twisted LD haste boost and naked doggy did hit with satisfactory frequence.
- Wielded weapon interaction still seems iffy/buggy/working only selectively:
1) Momentum swing does not work (wrong form notice)
2) Dog seems to get glancing blows randomly from alpha strike when wielding 2-hander
3) Item damage from oozes et cetera is a new source of worry for doggy druids. Just a 5 minute test run in the quest Creeping Death shattered a 21 hardness quarterstaff

Bugs in this instance of Lammannia:
- Druid got a barbarian version of "dismiss rage". This does not dismiss rage, but does impose the fatigue debuff.
- Ghost wolf pack AOE switches autoattack off

Opinions:
Personally, I didnt find animal form rage a very compelling mechanic; it is too big a tradeoff. Heals are an inherent part of playing even a splashed druid. If the rage shuts the heals down, it should REALLY change the way the character is played. Im looking at power level of Ravager tier5 heals/crit rage/autostuns from ear smash... preferably powering the NW tier5 abilites. Those seem quite cool.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/495172-U38-Preview-2-Druid?p=6082736&viewfull=1#post6082736 My feedback/suggestions are in orange to make the rage a bit more useful and in general make the Bear tree more similar to a barbarian if you choose the rage/DPS path rather than a tank. Granted it's got nothing for dogs at the moment, I'd be willing to make suggestions for wolves if asked. I just didn't have the desire to test the wolves in conjunction with bears.

edrein
03-29-2018, 11:33 AM
So, if you eliminate the elemental form caster level penalties, you have also eliminated the main reason that I want Air form anyway.


Stop lying Silver, you know you want to be a translucent tornado man. :P

But in all reality, the functionality of the missing two forms would be nice. But the visual portion is just as important. I want to be a strange form of stoneskin with a runearm shaped stone growth on my forearm while I drop earthquakes and storms of vengeance, and now weave in Creeping Doom and Enveloping Swarm.

Which makes me wonder is Salt Ray considered an earth spell?

Haphazarduk
03-29-2018, 12:18 PM
+1
Yes adding force is very nice.

Hmm...

Druid 4 -> +8 force crit chance
Favored Soul 4 -> +8 force crit chance
Wizard 12 -> Arch Mage tier 5/core 12


I have a Druid11/FvS4/Wiz5 Shiradi build that works very well.

I think I'll LR (hopefully with the new heart) to Druid13/FvS4/Wiz3. You can still hit CL9 on MM with Force being included in Summer now and Salt Ray SLA will be interesting to add into the mix.

Hap

edrein
03-29-2018, 01:32 PM
Shillelagh is now a self buff that enchants any wooden weapon you wield for it's duration. While the enchant stays on the player casting other weapon enchants will suspend it until the weapon is re-equips and it clears other temp weapon enchants.


So I thought about this, this is a good change and with the core 6 double effect buff it's good.

The issue is frankly, we've got a lack of wooden weapons. And more importantly good wooden weapons. Most of them are quarterstaves, and most of those are caster sticks. Beyond that you can count the remaining non-QT wooden weapons on one hand. You can't sentient weapon Ironwood Khopesh, so it's rather meh. Legendary Cranium Cracker will only be good if Dethek Runestone is fixed and you can pull +3W out if it with the double shillelagh effect.

So my suggestion here is to extend Shillelagh to apply to any non-metal weapon and to Flameblade. Mostly because any non-metal weapon in DDO is a druidic oath appropriate material: Bone, crystal, stone, etc. Secondly, since there has been no talk on the dev end of updating Flameblade to scale, this would atleast help give it more use and life once you hit epics and the scaling stops. Although I'd suggest that flameblades get the full +1W as if they were two handed weapons and +2W with the core 6. This might make them a bit 'strong' in heroics, but mostly would help them in epics where they need it the most.

Allowing Shillelagh to apply to shields might open interesting doors for caster-tanks that splash fighter and could grab low hanging vanguard fruit, though I'm not entirely sure about that. Could still be a boon to elemental druids that might grab improve shield bash given Wooden Shields at endgame have Bashing enhancement built on them.

Edit: To further explain my suggestion.
Wooden weapons that aren't quarterstaves:
Cranium Cracker 7 and 26 (Club)
Ironwood Khopesh 16-18 and 23-25 (Khopesh)
Greatclub of the Scrag 7 and 20 (Greatclub)
Bonesplitter 18 (Greatclub)
Moonhowl Axe 4 (Greatclub)
Pastemaker 2 (Greatclub)
Fist of Daarguul 8 (club)
Now if you expand that to non-metallic weapons the list expands greatly:
Brocolli Basher 25 (club)
Muck's Doom 6 (club)
Muck Bane 2 (club)
Crystallized Eternity 4-20 (greatclub)
Frostbite Blade 17-19 and 26-28 (scimitar)
Spectral Dagger 4-20 (dagger)
Whisperdoom's Fang 6 (dagger)
Miasma's Fang 2 (dagger)
Icerazor 21 (sickle)
Echo of the Sunsword 29 (shortsword)
Celestia, Brightest Star of Day 23 (shortsword)
Stonework Beam 15 and 28 (quarterstaff)
Forgotten Axe 10 and 28 (handaxe)

These are just a sampling to show how much wider the options become when expanded beyond just wood to any natural druidic oath abiding material.

edrein
03-29-2018, 01:34 PM
Also like everyone else, I'm concerned about weapon durability while in animal forms. Can the first cores add weapon defense? Full 100% would be great, but I could understand that might not fly.

EmGreen
03-29-2018, 03:49 PM
Wolf tree- core - A True Hunter
This is missing some of the text in game. Currently it states its gives a +1 competence bonus to your attacks, which is pretty vague. According to the notes it should be to crit multiplier, please add that to in game text

Bear tree - Rage of the Beast
You must take 2 levels of this before you can take the first level of primal beast. But according to primal beast's text you should be able to take the first rank with just one rank of rage of the beast

Bear tree - Primal Beast
You must take 2 levels of this before you can take the first level of enduring beast. But according to enduring beast's text you should be able to take the first rank with just one rank of primal beast

Bear tree - Enduring Beast
You must take 2 levels of this before you can take undying beast. But you should be able to take undying beast with just one rank of enduring beast.

Bear tree - bloody claws
You must take 3 levels of this before you can take sharp bloody claws. Sharp bloody claws says you only need 1 rank of bloody claws

Bear tree - sharp bloody claws
In game name for this is bloody claws - the missing sharp needs to be added. Currently it has both same name and same icon as its precursor enhancement

Bear tree - the two con or str enhancements
These are only costing 1 ap, should be 2

Dismiss rage feat appears under barbarian feats in the feats panel - should be under druid feats. It also does not dispel animal/druid rage (but does still leave fatigue)

Animal rage duration is not increased by CON

Wolf Tree - Four legs good
The in game text states that its a toggle stance, but its showing up in the enhancement list as a passive ability. The update notes make it sound like its changed to a passive always on ability. Its in game text should be changed to make it clear that its a passive always on thing rather than a stance.

Henshin Mystic
The first and last cores have had their text updated to reflect the +3 melee power change, but cores 2, 3, 4 and 5 still say +10 melee power. They need to be edited to say +3

Nature's warrior feat
When I am in any of the wild shape forms, the doublestrike from this is not appearing in the character sheet in the when i hover over the attack bonuses icon that lists attack speed, double strike, etc

Rage of the beast
The duration of this is not affected by barbarian extend rage enhancement, but it should be.

Cleave and great cleave
the animation for this in bear form is much slower than humanoid cleaves - can it please be made faster so its on par with cleave for everyone else

elvesunited
03-29-2018, 04:15 PM
Also like everyone else, I'm concerned about weapon durability while in animal forms. Can the first cores add weapon defense? Full 100% would be great, but I could understand that might not fly.

It's worse than it seems. Near as I can tell damage to weapons is worse in wolf form than in humanoid form.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 05:48 PM
Stop lying Silver, you know you want to be a translucent tornado man. :P

My hate of the -3 caster level penalty exceeds my fond desire to see all four elemental forms exist.



But in all reality, the functionality of the missing two forms would be nice. But the visual portion is just as important. I want to be a strange form of stoneskin with a runearm shaped stone growth on my forearm while I drop earthquakes and storms of vengeance, and now weave in Creeping Doom and Enveloping Swarm.


Sounds very cool indeed and desirable.

Stand by my offer, I strongly would like to see the penalty to caster levels greatly diminished or removed.


Which makes me wonder is Salt Ray considered an earth spell?

Force Damage = Summer ?

{although thematically salt = Legendary Superior Focus of Water
Legendary Superior Focus of Negative Energy
Legendary Salt }

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 05:50 PM
Pointing out to the Devs about a bug nerf:

Up until now, Druid casters enjoyed the bug of +8 spell crit chance to both seasons being active at the same time.

There is enough of a seasonal advantage upcoming that the removal/diminishing of opposing element -3 caster levels is no longer needed.

edrein
03-29-2018, 05:51 PM
My hate of the -3 caster level penalty exceeds my fond desire to see all four elemental forms exist.



Sounds very cool indeed and desirable.

Stand by my offer, I strongly would like to see the penalty to caster levels greatly diminished or removed.



Force Damage = Summer ?

{although thematically salt = Legendary Superior Focus of Water
Legendary Superior Focus of Negative Energy
Legendary Salt }

As I suggested Force and Light (particularly ALIGNMENT spells) should be separate of season. As it affects quite a few spells, three of which are actually winter spells. With them being separate of seasons and given crit bonuses as a general deal. That means elementals don't have to worry about which form to min-max salt ray's DC/caster level and frankly Word of Balance also gets freed up as well.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 05:53 PM
It's worse than it seems. Near as I can tell damage to weapons is worse in wolf form than in humanoid form.

Hmm...traditionally handwraps take far less damage than normal weapons, so weapons morphed into paws should thematically take less damage than normal?

edrein
03-29-2018, 05:54 PM
I've always wondered about Winter Season's negative energy bit. It's always been like that on live, was the originally a plan for druidic sects? As Children of Winter is an Eberron sect that focuses on negative energy/arcane and the cycle of death portion of nature. Would have love to have seen that go through for some neat druid play ability.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 05:56 PM
So my suggestion here is to extend Shillelagh to apply to any non-metal weapon and to Flameblade. Mostly because any non-metal weapon in DDO is a druidic oath appropriate material: Bone, crystal, stone, etc. Secondly, since there has been no talk on the dev end of updating Flameblade to scale, this would atleast help give it more use and life once you hit epics and the scaling stops. Although I'd suggest that flameblades get the full +1W as if they were two handed weapons and +2W with the core 6. This might make them a bit 'strong' in heroics, but mostly would help them in epics where they need it the most.

+1 for creativity and ideas.

/signed for considering allowing Shillelagh apply to non metal materials including flame blade

after all, except for Qstaffs, its the same buff as Deadly Weapons
half as much without the core 6 from Season's Herald

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 06:13 PM
As I suggested Force and Light (particularly ALIGNMENT spells) should be separate of season. As it affects quite a few spells, three of which are actually winter spells. With them being separate of seasons and given crit bonuses as a general deal. That means elementals don't have to worry about which form to min-max salt ray's DC/caster level and frankly Word of Balance also gets freed up as well.

Another reason to eliminate the opposing element caster level penalty, there is more than enough Seasonal distinctions already.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 07:16 PM
In a day and age when Character Levels > Caster Levels, perhaps the Devs might reconsider the Druid and Sorcerer caster level penalties?

Consider that Sorcerers might end up with elemental Wild Shape type forms as a Capstone?


A compromise of


Fire Elemental Form ~ +1 Caster Level Fire, +0 Caster Level Cold
Water Elemental Form ~ +1 Caster Level Cold, +0 Caster Level Fire

seems much preferable to the current state of +3/-3

and might be less unbalancing if the Sorcerer Savant Capstone includes the ability to take a wild shape type elemental form (even if it is not considered a wild shape per say).


Of course, +2/+0 is nicer than +1/+0 but I will take whatever I can get to get rid of that -3

edrein
03-29-2018, 07:29 PM
In a day and age when Character Levels > Caster Levels, perhaps the Devs might reconsider the Druid and Sorcerer caster level penalties?

Consider that Sorcerers might end up with elemental Wild Shape type forms as a Capstone?


A compromise of


Fire Elemental Form ~ +1 Caster Level Fire, +0 Caster Level Cold
Water Elemental Form ~ +1 Caster Level Cold, +0 Caster Level Fire

seems much preferable to the current state of +3/-3

and might be less unbalancing if the Sorcerer Savant Capstone includes the ability to take a wild shape type elemental form (even if it is not considered a wild shape per say).


Of course, +2/+0 is nicer than +1/+0 but I will take whatever I can get to get rid of that -3

Sadly a lot of people build around the +3 currently, as stated in this thread several shiradi builds are going to use that feature.

Thematically I think druids should be +3 and -1, as they are far more skilled with natural elemental magic than a Savant sorcerer. However, this wouldn't be such a big penalty if they moved Force and Light/Alignment spells out of Fire form and make it form agnostic.

I get the entire reason for throwing Force into Fire was to make Fire more attractive, but that's not really helpful in the long haul.

The biggest issue with the current set up of both elemental forms and seasons for druids is the fact they are set to two dynamic sets, where as sorcs have the four. Druids have opposed elements put into single form/seasons and that causes the issues of how to add Air and Earth forms.

Take for instance; how do you balance Storm of Vengeance when Air form will have negative caster levels to acid, or vice versa. Even worst for the Earth elemental as the CL portion is dictated by the Electric Base of the spell.

I think that the concept of making Druids negate these penalties is good. However there becomes the issue of how much bonus can they receive then. A level 20 sorc's elemental form makes sense for the +3 caster levels, after all that's a huge pure investment. Where as a druid only needs to reach level 11 for their first elemental form. And wow, I just did my research. Sorcs get +1 and druids get +3... Talk about a backwards power structure.

With that in mind, I think druids should keep the +3 caster level but tie it into the cores of SH. The same for reducing the penalty against the opposing element. Put them in the cores. And for the love of god, someone give the poor Savant Sorcs a +3 boost after all they take the -3 opposite penalty as well. Put these caster level boosts at core 12, 18, and 20. Start with +1, and boost it to a total of +4 caster level for that elemental form. At core 18 and 20, reduce the penalty by 1, for a new total of -1 to the opposite element.

Or just take a bandaid route similar to Savants and add +1 caster level to the appropriate element per core and -1 every other core. I really feel like druids need a full fledged pass at this point and delaying them a patch or two is imperative for getting things right rather than having to go back and recheck things like the current monk snafu. Shame Ninja Spy's still aren't getting any love...

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 11:07 PM
Sadly a lot of people build around the +3 currently, as stated in this thread several shiradi builds are going to use that feature.

Hmm...will have to go back and reread the thread then.

Shirdai taking advantage of Force being inside a season would result in:

+1 caster levels to spells in your active season
+1 Max Caster Level for spells appropriate to your season




And in tier five outside of seasons is

Increase your Caster Level and Max Caster Level by +1
Capstone of +1 CL / +1 MCL evocation/conjuration (which I assume a Multi-class Shirdai would not have)

The +3 caster levels affects only cold or fire spells, not force spells.
So any attempt to use thus to increase Magic Missles will not work.

It could affect Produce Flame or Scorching Ray.

Produce Flamse is already affected by Master of the Wilds which adds +10 Max Caster levels.
So, Produce Flame's max caster level of 15 increases to 25.

In order to gain full 25 caster levels, one would need:

Master of the Wild -- increase of +10 max caster level

Primal Epic Destiny -- increase of +5 caster levels (unless the Devs actually go back and reread the history of MotU Expansion notes if any exist and increase Epic Destiny levels towards Epic Levels)

Fire Form -- increase of +3 fire caster levels

Sorcerer Fire Savant Tree splash -- +1 at every core you take (I have no idea where you getting that Druid caster levels are larger than Sorcerer?)

Possible Epic Weapon such as Spiral, the Voice of the Elements with its Elemental Spiral random bonus.




So, to gain a Produce Flames Caster level of 25

+3 Fire Form
+5 Shirdai/Primal ED
+1 season
+3 from a splash of 6 levels of Sorcerer
+3 from a splash of 4 levels of Favored Soul
-----total----
+15 Fire Caster Levels requiring Druid level 10+ in order to max out

Problem is not getting the immunity breaker from the level 9 druid spells.


In order to max out Scorching Ray, one needs 11 arcane caster levels.
+3 Fire Form
+3 from a splash of 6 levels of Sorcerer
+1 season
+6 Sorcerer Class
+3 from a splash of 4 levels of Favored Soul
----total----
+19 Scorching Ray CL


In order to max out Magic Missle, one needs 9 arcane caster levels
+3 from a splash of 6 levels of Sorcerer
+1 season
+6 Sorcerer Class
+3 from a splash of 4 levels of Favored Soul
----total---
+13 Magic Missle CL



You are giving up the level four arcane spell Force Missiles, however, can gain Chain Missles.


If Chain Missles is not bugged actually counting caster levels then you need 19 arcane caster levels to have all 10 missles.
+3 from a splash of 6 levels of Sorcerer
+1 season
+6 Sorcerer Class
+3 from a splash of 4 levels of Favored Soul
----total---
+13 Chain Missle CL



I believe the Shirdai build posted was going for Druid 13, which is high enough to take advantage caster levels.




Of course the whole discussion goes haywire, if the Devs actually consider raising Epic Destiny Levels to 10, thereby providing up to 10 Primal Caster Levels gated by Epic Levels.

Haphazarduk
03-30-2018, 07:30 AM
Also if offered this compromise:



Water Elemental
You gain +2 bonus to caster level and max caster level to water and cold spells.
Your fire spells get a -1 penalty to caster level and max caster level.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to cold resistance, and -10 electric resistance.
You have +20 swim skill
Form specific spells:Elemental Toughness, Freezing Spray, Ice Flowers, Mantle of the Icy Soul


Fire Elemental
You can breath indefinitely underwater
You gain +2 bonus to caster level and max caster level to fire spells.
Your water spells get a -1 penalty to caster level and max caster level.
You gain a +10 racial bonus to fire resistance, and have -10 cold resistance.
Form specific spells: Body of the Sun, Elemental Toughness, Fires of Purity, Anger of the Noonday Sun



I would definately take that and consider it an upgrade.

No, no. Keep the +3 CL in form. The -3 is fine. Its ok to have to make compromises to get decent benefits and it gives a reason to switch between forms which is good.

I'd love to see new forms for air/earth. I think theres more they could do with forms in general though so would rather wait till they can do it properly;

Bonus Caster Level in Form (+3!)
Penalty Caster Level in opposite form
Bonus absorption in form
Penalty absorption in opposite form
Related skill bonus (see Sorcerer)
+2d6 form damage to melee
Form spells (probably the main reason they haven't done air/earth forms yet)

Hap

Silverleafeon
03-30-2018, 06:44 PM
No, no. Keep the +3 CL in form. The -3 is fine. Its ok to have to make compromises to get decent benefits and it gives a reason to switch between forms which is good.


Ok, I see there are definately fans of the +3 ...let the Devs take note.



I'd love to see new forms for air/earth. I think theres more they could do with forms in general though so would rather wait till they can do it properly;


I believe Torc mentioned a very possible second druid pass later on, bring "...more forms..." and stuff.
So, you likely.

~~~

If the Devs actually consider (or are likely considering already) expanding Epic Destinies to level 10 while being level gated by epic levels, then any complaints I have about the -3 caster level penalty are null and void.

EI: +5 -3 = +2 so who cares then

Silverleafeon
03-31-2018, 12:09 AM
Not sure if the Devs are still debating how much difference there needs to be between Summer & Winter, if so please recall this belt swap (hot bar equipped for true druid casters:


http://ddowiki.com/images/Legendary_Thrummingspark_Cord.png


OR


http://ddowiki.com/images/Legendary_Burnscar_Sash.png


the same slot, so you cannot have both at the same time...

Haphazarduk
03-31-2018, 02:34 AM
I'd also like to see the projectile speed of Fire Seeds increased a bit (to be in line with the improved Produce Flame speed?). I'm not sure how many people use this spell any more but I love it, especially the dual nature of it, and a faster to-target speed would make up somewhat for the relatively high cost and high level spell slot.

One of the the best things abut this pass by the way is the change to some spells. Spells have long been overlooked in DDO and many feel redundant these days. Giving them a pass feels like an efficient way of improving gameplay, QOL *and* flavour all in one go. Big fan of this.

Hap

Silverleafeon
03-31-2018, 06:48 AM
I'd also like to see the projectile speed of Future Seeds increased a bit (to be in line with the improved Produce Flame speed?). I'm not sure how many people use this spell any more but I love it, especially the dual nature of it, and a faster to-target speed would make up somewhat for the relatively high cost and high level spell slot.

One of the the best things abut this pass by the way is the change to some spells. Spells have long been overlooked in DDO and many feel redundant these days. Giving them a pass feels like an efficient way of improving gameplay, QOL *and* flavour all in one go. Big fan of this.

Hap

Fan of Fire Seeds here.

Yes, working over the spells is great for Druid casters.

Hjarki
03-31-2018, 07:38 PM
The thing which annoys me about elemental forms is not the caster level penalties per se, but that at any given time about half your druid SLAs are taking that penalty. It seems to me that Season's Herald should've been split into two trees - call `em Summer Herald and Winter Herald - with the relevant bonuses, SLAs, etc. put into each tree for each season, much as with sorcerer Savants. Those who want to specialize in only one season can do so (e.g., I'd like to do a hypothetical Winter Herald / Nature's Warrior hybrid wolf build); while those who want to alternate between seasons for more spell variety can invest in both Heralds.

It's probably easier/more thematically appropriate, to simply split the abilities. So if you were a Summer Herald, you'd be able to use Produce Flame. If you were a Winter Herald, the same ability would instead Produce Frost - an identically crappy elemental attack, just with cold damage. As a Winter Herald, you'd Call Lightning. As a Summer Herald, you'd Call Thunder. And so forth.

edrein
03-31-2018, 08:20 PM
It's probably easier/more thematically appropriate, to simply split the abilities. So if you were a Summer Herald, you'd be able to use Produce Flame. If you were a Winter Herald, the same ability would instead Produce Frost - an identically crappy elemental attack, just with cold damage. As a Winter Herald, you'd Call Lightning. As a Summer Herald, you'd Call Thunder. And so forth.

That'd actually be a nice change/idea. Although I don't think the devs like to do the whole... Duality/Alternatives. Seeing as Divine Disciple got left alone during the small divine pass, yet everyone knows Dark Disciple is awful save the necro DC boost.

Pilgrim1
03-31-2018, 08:37 PM
Thank you for the improvments to spells, but dont forget other bugged spells:

— fire seeds when quickened only casts 2 seeds (as oposed to 3 unquickend). This is simmilar to the issue with metiorswarm from wiz/sorcer spell list.

— Ice flowers has a 8 second duration yet does nothing for that duration.

— Harrowing pack knockdown does not work on players, pets, hierlings, or summons.

— Pack aptatude only provides +4 to a stat instead of the advertized 6.

— Howl of terror does not cause helpless status dispite advertizing “paralizing effect”. At one point the draconic ability which increased dc of fear based spells did not apply to this spell dispite the spell saying that they are “Paralized with fear”. I am unsure if this is still accurate.

Haphazarduk
04-01-2018, 03:05 AM
So, to gain a Produce Flames Caster level of 25

+3 Fire Form
+5 Shirdai/Primal ED
+1 season
+3 from a splash of 6 levels of Sorcerer
+3 from a splash of 4 levels of Favored Soul
-----total----
+15 Fire Caster Levels requiring Druid level 10+ in order to max out

Problem is not getting the immunity breaker from the level 9 druid spells.



I didn't play on the Lam feedback event but I *think* the tier5 feature Master of Elements now has no min level to give Anger of the Noon-day Sun which now gives removal of fire res and immunity. This is a great change IMO and opens up more options for low level elemental spells and multiclassing yet again.

Hap

Tilomere
04-01-2018, 03:47 AM
Mmm no W&S mastery for veteran players to maker reaper builds and no spell pen for veteran players to make DC builds.

GG no re. SH is DoA

Silverleafeon
04-01-2018, 04:59 AM
I didn't play on the Lam feedback event but I *think* the tier5 feature Master of Elements now has no min level to give Anger of the Noon-day Sun which now gives removal of fire res and immunity. This is a great change IMO and opens up more options for low level elemental spells and multiclassing yet again.

Hap

Wow, totally missed that as I was thinking one needed the spell memorized to get said effect.

Rather a nice change really.
Hopefully tucked away into Tier Five Savant will be a similar effect?

Nachomammashouse
04-02-2018, 07:25 PM
SEASONS HERALD

Cores

Hierophant: You are wise and skilled in the art of wielding divine magic to summon aid and change the world around you. +2 Wisdom & Constitution. Your Conjuration and Evocation spells gain +1 DC, +1 caster level, and +1 max caster level in both seasons.


This still needs work. Capstones should be a big incentive to acquire and not something that we can easily shrug off to sacrifice for 2 levels of multiclass. What we essentially have now is the broken "auto crit" was never fixed and instead removed and replaced with +2 con. This is a good place for another SLA. I have suggested adding a spell version of the Bottled Tornado (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bottled_Tornado) and the capstone is the perfect place for it to create a fun and enticing capstone with some flair. The Bottled Tornado effect is similar enough to a pen and paper 7th level druid spell called Whirlwind, so it fits perfectly with lore and the coding is already done in DDO but sadly sits unused because most of the Bottled Tornados are long gone, as they were from the 8th anniversary event.

Compare the current Hierophant to the Enlightened Spirit Capstone:

Ultimate Enlightenment: +2 CON, +2 CHA. While your Celestial Spirit is enabled, you gain +20% Competence Bonus to Maximum HP, full Base Attack Bonus, +10 Melee Power, +10 Ranged Power, +10 Universal Spell Power, and +20 Light Spell Power.

Ultimate Enlightenment is a great capstone and makes us have to seriously consider it before deciding to multiclass. Hierophant is so sad compared to Ultimate Enlightenment. Please work on Hierophant. Don't worry, druid casters will never be overpowered.

edrein
04-02-2018, 11:06 PM
This still needs work. Capstones should be a big incentive to acquire and not something that we can easily shrug off to sacrifice for 2 levels of multiclass. What we essentially have now is the broken "auto crit" was never fixed and instead removed and replaced with +2 con. This is a good place for another SLA. I have suggested adding a spell version of the Bottled Tornado (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bottled_Tornado) and the capstone is the perfect place for it to create a fun and enticing capstone with some flair. The Bottled Tornado effect is similar enough to a pen and paper 7th level druid spell called Whirlwind, so it fits perfectly with lore and the coding is already done in DDO but sadly sits unused because most of the Bottled Tornados are long gone, as they were from the 8th anniversary event.

Compare the current Hierophant to the Enlightened Spirit Capstone:

Ultimate Enlightenment: +2 CON, +2 CHA. While your Celestial Spirit is enabled, you gain +20% Competence Bonus to Maximum HP, full Base Attack Bonus, +10 Melee Power, +10 Ranged Power, +10 Universal Spell Power, and +20 Light Spell Power.

Ultimate Enlightenment is a great capstone and makes us have to seriously consider it before deciding to multiclass. Hierophant is so sad compared to Ultimate Enlightenment. Please work on Hierophant. Don't worry, druid casters will never be overpowered.




Great idea and a valid point. Looking at the changes I'd consider 18 druid/2 FvS to be the highest lead for caster builds at the moment. With careful use of Produce Flame, Salt Ray, Word of Balance, and Sunburst you'll be able to stretch your SP quite far if you're not dropping Firewalls, Icestorms, or Earthquakes to supplement your other SLAs during fights.

The tornado capstone would definitely be a great thematic addition, a good reuse of a dropped 'spell effect', and a nice incentive to go pure over multiclassing. Druid is definitely the only caster on live I can't find a good argument for staying pure for the capstone and with the proposed change as is, I really don't see a reason to stay pure.

The issue I see is no caster capstone is going to be as remotely attractive as warlock capstones, because too many forumites will grumble and yell nerf before it even manages to touch Lamannia for play testing. It's a shame.

silinteresting
04-03-2018, 06:53 AM
The issue I see is no caster capstone is going to be as remotely attractive as warlock capstones, because too many forumites will grumble and yell nerf before it even manages to touch Lamannia for play testing. It's a shame.

it does not have to be as good as warlock but it should be as good as other caster options that have
had a proper pass. lets take bard as the example the devs use as there base class, the capstone for
the spellsinger class is +4 Charisma +25 Universal Spell Power You gain the Heal and Wail of the Banshee
spells as level 6 Bard spells. now look at the proposed seasons herald capstone, . +2 Wisdom & Constitution.
Your Conjuration and Evocation spells gain +1 DC, +1 caster level, and +1 max caster level in both seasons.
as you can see the difference is quite large. at least get rid of the +2 constitution and up the wisdom to +4.
after all we are casters.

your friend sil :)

Grace_ana
04-05-2018, 09:22 AM
I agree with those who say there should not be a penalty to casters that use an opposing element or season. As you are not getting the often large benefits that you would be getting in season/element, it’s already an effective penalty. There’s no need to pile on.

Edit: Also one of the many still begging for wand and scroll mastery to be returned to the caster tree. It’s absolutely vital.

Nachomammashouse
04-05-2018, 04:32 PM
Edit: Also one of the many still begging for wand and scroll mastery to be returned to the caster tree. It’s absolutely vital.

I love wand and scroll mastery in heroic reaper questing! If they don't bring it back to Season's Herald I hope they'll put it in a future universal tree.

Silverleafeon
04-09-2018, 06:41 AM
The original discussion about Spellsinger Bards included the fact that caster Bards suffer a -3 penalty due to the fact that they cannot Heighten any spells above level six.

Raising Druid's caster Capstone to +4 wisdom would lead to Wizard's caster Capstone to +4 int, etc until Spellsinger capstone became +6 cha.

This is not to say that I would not like to see an improved Season's Herald capstone.

This is not to say that I agree with the "one spell school to rule them all" philosophy of DDO.

We need metamagics addressed along with spell school narrowness addressed.

Its likely that the twistable spell school bonuses in Draconic and Magistar should be placed inside a new improved true innate system for those two ED.
and a lot of other stuff...

GramercyRiff
04-10-2018, 07:37 PM
Beast Awakened: You can now cast druidic magic while raging.


Ok thank you. I'll definitely give Bear a shot now. I didn't notice this in previous versions but maybe it was there.

edrein
04-10-2018, 11:32 PM
Ok thank you. I'll definitely give Bear a shot now. I didn't notice this in previous versions but maybe it was there.

That seemingly replaced Spirit Renewal. I'm glad for it, but slightly disappointed in how little the tree changed. It definitely needed a bit more TLC than it got.

elvesunited
04-11-2018, 05:58 AM
That seemingly replaced Spirit Renewal. I'm glad for it, but slightly disappointed in how little the tree changed. It definitely needed a bit more TLC than it got.

Cast druid spells while raged
Rage length increased to 30 seconds + Con * 6
Essence of Shrike now lists "wolf or bear form" in its description.
The cool sounding but utterly impractical Spirit Renewal thrown out.

DDO has gone a lot farther than I thought it would go. This fixes rage and makes rapid casting of innate animal spells more feasible. The only issues they didn't touch was that some Tier 5 enhancements are weaker than comparable Tier 1+3 enhancements. But at least now I can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Haphazarduk
04-11-2018, 06:01 AM
Cast druid spells while raged
Rage length increased to 30 seconds + Con * 6
Essence of Shrike now lists "wolf or bear form" in its description.
The cool sounding but utterly impractical Spirit Renewal thrown out.

DDO has gone a lot farther than I thought it would go. This fixes rage and makes rapid casting of innate animal spells more feasible. The only issues they didn't touch was that some Tier 5 enhancements are weaker than comparable Tier 1+3 enhancements. But at least now I can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Yes, some good stuff in there, especially the rage casting. Wonder if it only works in animal form.... I hope not. It will make SH/elemental melee/spell hybrid builds interesting...

Hap

Vish
04-11-2018, 09:38 AM
Man, I can't believe they're giving shining through to Druids

I may actually run a heroic Druid just to see this change...

Vagabon_Ghost
04-11-2018, 01:28 PM
Druid update is now live on all servers and I see it as a pair of most fundamental mistakes.

1.) Two Trees for Animal-form combat? Are Druids 2/3s animal melee class? A part yes 66% of the classes trees dedicated to this feature is ponderous.

2.) This is a Class much like Cleric yet rather than Healing, Druids a Summoners by natural affinity. A Summoning centric Tree for Druid , in the vain of Radiant Servant among the Cleric trees is what should be considered. Once the Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric spell Create Undead brought in multiple zombies , ghouls, or ghasts in a single spell. SLA along these lines with Druid centric animals / elementals seems feasible with so many older systems being reworked. Certainly Powerful yet an aspect the class is always and fundamentally about.

Celebrating class differences is a good thing, obsessing on one facet (Animal form melee) not so much................ Be Well All!

ilhares
04-27-2018, 02:05 PM
Celebrating class differences is a good thing, obsessing on one facet (Animal form melee) not so much.That's true. I rather wish they'd implement a randomness factor when it comes to the animal forms. I totally grok why they don't, but I think it'd be neat if RNGesus had a hand in the forms gained, or maybe a random superior form as a capstone result (determined when the character is created, to prevent cheating via tree respec).

john0
05-01-2018, 04:41 PM
In the patch notes it mentions:

.
Bear and Dire Bear Form's Armor Class bonus is now typed Exceptional. Improved Mage Armor in the eldritch knight enhancement tree is now also considered typed Exceptional

Does the exceptional type for improved mage armor refer to the actual spell cast or the added % bonus

Here is the enhancement for reference


Improved Mage Armor: Spell Like Ability: Mage Armor. (Activation Cost: 8/6/4 Spell Points)

In addition, while you are under the effect of the Mage Armor spell, you gain a +3%/+6%/+10% increase to your total Armor Class.

unbongwah
05-01-2018, 04:55 PM
Does the exceptional type for improved mage armor refer to the actual spell cast or the added % bonus
The +10% bonus AC. The base +4 AC from Mage Armor spell is an armor bonus (http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_bonus), which effectively makes it useless since it doesn't stack with any actual armor.