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View Full Version : Catacombs + Delera's Saga?



Antheal
03-23-2018, 03:55 AM
They're both all about fighting against the undead, and it would be nice to have another low-level Saga to do.

Arianrhod
03-23-2018, 07:19 AM
I could go for that - there are other quests that could fill it out as well - Rest for the Restless, several one-shots in House J, etc.

I would like for some solution to the "you can't complete this saga because a quest is closed" issue that doesn't involve being VIP or spending shards to be in place before new sagas get added, though (admittedly, this might not be a problem for a saga that only includes quests as old as these - little likelihood of any of them being closed).

Kaboom2112
03-23-2018, 08:09 AM
Don't think it'll happen as there are no epic versions of the quests.

Enoach
03-23-2018, 09:06 AM
I'm all for adding Saga's at the heroic level

I've also felt the entire Necropolis 1 through 4 Heroic series would make a good saga.

If the concern for adding heroic is that there is too much XP at heroic level, having the saga made up of quests that range between level 3 and 14 would make this a long term goal comparatively.

kmoustakas
03-23-2018, 09:48 AM
I'm all for adding Saga's at the heroic level

I've also felt the entire Necropolis 1 through 4 Heroic series would make a good saga.

If the concern for adding heroic is that there is too much XP at heroic level, having the saga made up of quests that range between level 3 and 14 would make this a long term goal comparatively.

There's already too much xp at heroic level but it would make so much sense for necro 1-4 to have a saga on heroic. I don't agree on catacombs and delera though as the only thing connecting them is 'undead enemies'.

Qhualor
03-23-2018, 09:49 AM
I'm not necessarily opposed to a low level saga, but I have always supported a more in depth storyline that connects the quests from Korthos on up to like Reavers Refuge or Amrath. The thing about heroic sagas is that it just means less quests for me to run at 18. I save my 3BC and GH saga for when I take level 18 and with already banked xp I'm usually shy of level 19. Another heroic saga would mean I pretty much just run LOD chain or most of the Vale and there's cap. Add in Bonus Days xp or grouping bonus and it's even less.

Antheal
03-23-2018, 04:08 PM
I don't agree on catacombs and delera though as the only thing connecting them is 'undead enemies'.

As opposed to...?

Saekee
03-23-2018, 04:23 PM
I'm not necessarily opposed to a low level saga, but I have always supported a more in depth storyline that connects the quests from Korthos on up to like Reavers Refuge or Amrath. The thing about heroic sagas is that it just means less quests for me to run at 18. I save my 3BC and GH saga for when I take level 18 and with already banked xp I'm usually shy of level 19. Another heroic saga would mean I pretty much just run LOD chain or most of the Vale and there's cap. Add in Bonus Days xp or grouping bonus and it's even less.
This, totally. Apparently, a dev (Lynnabel?) said that it is not easy to program sagas.

I argued in an old thread for a super lowbie intro saga (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455031-Korthos-Beginner-s-Saga-with-usual-Map-indicators-for-Lost-New-Players?highlight=) for new players to help them navigate Korthos to Harbor, especially since the latter is really confusing at first. The rewards would be as simple as a supply of curse remove pots etc. But hey--why are we worried about new players? It is good and even intentional to let them get frustrated/confused/lost/overwhelmed, as the current implementation of introductory materials seems to indicate.

PsychoBlonde
03-23-2018, 09:33 PM
They're both all about fighting against the undead, and it would be nice to have another low-level Saga to do.

They're really not related plot-wise AT ALL, though.

Arch-Necromancer
03-24-2018, 02:51 AM
There's already too much xp at heroic level but it would make so much sense for necro 1-4 to have a saga on heroic. I don't agree on catacombs and delera though as the only thing connecting them is 'undead enemies'.

I agree. Necropolis makes more sense for a saga.

And I would also consider xoriat saga that would include xoriat packs and free to play quests like Delirium, Dreams of Insanity, Xorian Cipher...

If they make epic Reaver's Reach, then maybe Reaver's Reach and Tempest's Spine could be included into Gianthold saga for one great Reaver and Argonnessen themed saga.

Antheal
03-24-2018, 05:07 AM
They're really not related plot-wise AT ALL, though.

They are, however, relatively low-level and have at least something in common.



Although if it's plot you're looking for, finding Venn ar-Kerran's body at the end of the Waterworks does name-drop "The Seal of Shan-To-Kor".

So maybe that would be better for a low-level saga. Waterworks/STK saga?

Sunnie
03-24-2018, 05:19 AM
Although if it's plot you're looking for, finding Venn ar-Kerran's body at the end of the Waterworks does name-drop "The Seal of Shan-To-Kor".

So maybe that would be better for a low-level saga. Waterworks/STK saga?
That would be a saga that makes sense. I'm also all for having Necro 1-4 be a saga.
I'm not too keen on Catacombs + Delera, though.

EllisDee37
03-24-2018, 06:12 AM
Agreed that Waterworks + Shan-to-kor is an obvious and good candidate for a low level saga. Anything else fit with them to more fully flesh it out? (8 quests is a little light for a saga.)


I think I'd like low level sagas to help lesser-run content. Are there any storylines that connect the following packs and quests?

Sharn Syndicate
Sorrowdusk Isle
Tangleroot Gorge
Ruins of Threnal
Red Fens
Restless Isles
Any Free-to-Play quests

I'm not asking about connections among ALL of them; I'm wondering if there are any story connections between any of the above packs and anything else. Like, say, if Sorrowdusk were connected to a couple free to play quests, or red fens is connected to some other pack not listed above. Any connections to anything? (I blast through most dialogs without reading.)

Spadedragon
03-24-2018, 07:52 AM
Another low level saga would be nice.I don't think Necro 1-4 would be a good candidate tho.There are too many quest that are not solo friendly, bad flagging mechanics, and a rat maze I hope to never see again. Seems like I recall Cordovan saying on twitch that they had no plans for more low level content. I guess thay feel those levels have too many quest already.

Aelonwy
03-24-2018, 12:03 PM
I would appreciate a Xoriat Saga, and while I agree a Necropolis saga makes sense I would never use it... I loathe Necro3 almost entirely. Beats me why Waterworks and StK aren't already connected in some overarching quest chain. You already get an extra reward from the Harbormaster for WW, it wouldn't be too unusual for him to be the Saga person, but then the saga would need to include The Kobolds' New Ringleader too, right? I would also enjoy a House Cannith Saga someday but I guess for that we would need some more House Cannith quests.

Honestly though, I would like to see a Korthos saga, but not with XP rewards, more preferably with a small selection of things from the Store, even if BTC such as a single Minor XP elixer, Minor Slayer Boost, Small Jewel of Fortune, and the quivers available in the harbor. Mostly things under 30 store points, but would introduce new players to their existence just like the Vintage Old Sully's Grog quest introduces new players to the existence of cakes. It wouldn't be costing the game much in terms of store bought items because the selection would all be things you could get from Daily dice or plat (quivers) but it might make some new players aware of these convenience items sooner. Actually, I'm second guessing the small jewel of fortune... perhaps a Lesser treasure Hunt Elixir would be better, the last thing a new player needs is an item that might make all the loot he/she picks up higher level than they can equip.

I would also like someone on Korthos to explain about Monster Manuals, maybe with the MM symbol in their dialogue, or the shortcut for new players to view the MM Prologue. MM really brings the game atmosphere closer to PnP, especially if you were one of those players that kept track of your personal kills through the course of a campaign.

Antheal
03-25-2018, 08:02 PM
Agreed that Waterworks + Shan-to-kor is an obvious and good candidate for a low level saga. Anything else fit with them to more fully flesh it out? (8 quests is a little light for a saga.)


I think I'd like low level sagas to help lesser-run content. Are there any storylines that connect the following packs and quests?

Sharn Syndicate
Sorrowdusk Isle
Tangleroot Gorge
Ruins of Threnal
Red Fens
Restless Isles
Any Free-to-Play quests

I'm not asking about connections among ALL of them; I'm wondering if there are any story connections between any of the above packs and anything else. Like, say, if Sorrowdusk were connected to a couple free to play quests, or red fens is connected to some other pack not listed above. Any connections to anything? (I blast through most dialogs without reading.)

Delera's and Threnal may be good to combine in a saga so that it will guide people to get both Voice of the Master and Mantle of the Worldshaper.

kmoustakas
03-26-2018, 01:48 AM
As opposed to...?

As opposed to the necro series having one boss -the Abbott- that you work through all his underlings to get to? The necropolis series is a single story with 4 parts.

cru121
03-26-2018, 01:56 AM
FWIW, I would buy Delera's for my alt account if it was a part of a saga.

SirValentine
03-27-2018, 12:12 PM
As opposed to the necro series having one boss -the Abbott- that you work through all his underlings to get to? The necropolis series is a single story with 4 parts.

Exactly. When the first described the concept of Sagas, I immediately thought of the Necropolis series. But for some unknown reason, the most perfect example of plot-linked chains combining into a larger story has never been made into a saga.

unbongwah
03-27-2018, 02:26 PM
Don't think it'll happen as there are no epic versions of the quests.
There's a simple solution to that! :) With the added benefit of more content to run in epics if we got epic Catacombs + Deleras.

Or oooohhh even better: Legendary Carnifex. :D

I don't agree on catacombs and delera though as the only thing connecting them is 'undead enemies'.
It's not like there's much linking Three Barrel Cove and Sentinels besides "pirates!" and yet they got their own Saga. I am reasonably confident the devs could invent a reason to connect the Catacombs with Deleras which is no less tenuous. :p

Whereas there are two problems with a Necropolis saga (apart from no epic Necro 1-3):

The level range between quests is too great: lvl 5 for Necro 1, lvl 14 for Necro 4. For all the other Sagas, the level spread for quests is much closer (no more than 3 in most cases).
I'm pretty sick of virtually all Necro quests.

I concede the latter is more of a me problem. :o

Arianrhod
03-27-2018, 06:06 PM
It's not like there's much linking Three Barrel Cove and Sentinels besides "pirates!" and yet they got their own Saga. I am reasonably confident the devs could invent a reason to connect the Catacombs with Deleras which is no less tenuous. :p



I agree. The invention of a suitable storyline is probably the least of the issues with this idea. At worst, they would have to add a quest or two to tie it all together ("Why are Nefarious Persons corrupting the burial places of Stormreach? Is it a cult? corruption? Has someone suborned the Guard? The Stormreach Chronicle wants to know!"

Sunnie
03-28-2018, 06:36 PM
It's not like there's much linking Three Barrel Cove and Sentinels besides "pirates!" and yet they got their own Saga. I am reasonably confident the devs could invent a reason to connect the Catacombs with Deleras which is no less tenuous. :p
Well, the Black Loch is located in 3bc, and one quest in the Sentinels chain takes place there. In heroic 3bc there is a group of non-hostile NPCs complaining about the blood tide not honoring the place as neutral ground. Epic 3bc is all about finding the treasure of the blood tide pirates after you trashed them in the sentinels chain. So it's a little more than just "pirates!" Maybe not a whole lot more, but definitely more than there is linking the catacombs to Delera's, which really is nothing more than "undead!"

SirValentine
03-29-2018, 06:08 AM
It's not like there's much linking Three Barrel Cove and Sentinels besides "pirates!" and yet they got their own Saga.


Even though it's the same end villain, raised from the dead and come back for more? (Captain/Commodore Tew) Even thought the locations specifically overlap? (Black Loch)



Whereas there are two problems with a Necropolis saga (apart from no epic Necro 1-3):

The level range between quests is too great: lvl 5 for Necro 1, lvl 14 for Necro 4.


So...why is that a problem? I don't see it.

Enoach
03-31-2018, 07:41 AM
As opposed to the necro series having one boss -the Abbott- that you work through all his underlings to get to? The necropolis series is a single story with 4 parts.

Keeping in mind that adding in the Quests for Vale of Twilight could also work here since what the Abbot did is what caused the rift to open (or does anyone not read the NPC dialog anymore)

Enoach
03-31-2018, 07:46 AM
...
Whereas there are two problems with a Necropolis saga (apart from no epic Necro 1-3):

The level range between quests is too great: lvl 5 for Necro 1, lvl 14 for Necro 4. For all the other Sagas, the level spread for quests is much closer (no more than 3 in most cases).
I'm pretty sick of virtually all Necro quests.

I concede the latter is more of a me problem. :o

See to me the idea of the Saga in heroic content being spread out and a long term goal makes it more "saga" like, especially if the tie in of the story is more important to you then how many quests I can do in some amount of time.

I can't help you with the second part, but I can say I get giddy when I run on my cleric in these types of quests for my racial lives and reaper XP :)

PsychoBlonde
03-31-2018, 11:38 PM
Agreed that Waterworks + Shan-to-kor is an obvious and good candidate for a low level saga. Anything else fit with them to more fully flesh it out? (8 quests is a little light for a saga.)


I think I'd like low level sagas to help lesser-run content. Are there any storylines that connect the following packs and quests?

Sharn Syndicate
Sorrowdusk Isle
Tangleroot Gorge
Ruins of Threnal
Red Fens
Restless Isles
Any Free-to-Play quests

I'm not asking about connections among ALL of them; I'm wondering if there are any story connections between any of the above packs and anything else. Like, say, if Sorrowdusk were connected to a couple free to play quests, or red fens is connected to some other pack not listed above. Any connections to anything? (I blast through most dialogs without reading.)

Sharn Syndicate nominally connects to Vault of Night (due to the business with the dragons and the prophecy).

Red Fens nominally connects to Vault of Night (since they're both problems with House K business ventures). Vault of Night also connects with Made to Order.

Threnal is connected loosely to the other Xoriat quests in the game (Xorian Cipher, Dreams of Insanity, Harbinger of Madness, Heart of Madness, Reign of Madness).

Restless Isles connects to the Inspired Quarter.

PsychoBlonde
03-31-2018, 11:46 PM
I agree. The invention of a suitable storyline is probably the least of the issues with this idea. At worst, they would have to add a quest or two to tie it all together ("Why are Nefarious Persons corrupting the burial places of Stormreach? Is it a cult? corruption? Has someone suborned the Guard? The Stormreach Chronicle wants to know!"

Uh, TBC and Sentinels are MUCH more closely connected than just "pirates". The Black Loch is actually IN Three-Barrel Cove. You can go to the outside entrance of it (but not go in) if you do the TBC explores. You fight Undead Captain Tew in epic TBC. They're related.

SoVeryBelgian
04-02-2018, 03:04 PM
People saying 3BC is a loose saga is just silly. Gianthold and 3BC both take place in singular areas (with tangentially related quests) that end in major boss figures or a raid. They're thematically related and the setting feels like a traditional DnD Module with quests and dungeons that play off each other.

In my opinion, rather than Catacombs + Delera's (I'd have thought Delera's and other House J stuff would be a Saga within itself seeing how many House J Quest givers there are.) I'd much rather see

Waterworks+STK and if possible Threnal because >Venn Ar-Kerran >Revenge in STK >Acquire Seal >Bargain with Bergthrym >Close Xoriat Portal

But of course, the level gap might want to stay around 5-7 so the first two might be fine. Note: The level 12 Quest 'Invaders' ties back the story nicely (Did Arlos survive?!). Maybe 15k exp for it? 20?
Plus it would allow Threnal to cycle back into a quest chain people would choose even though xp/min aint so hot.

or alternatively

Harbinger of Madness+Reign of Madness+Heart of Madness in addition to Xorian Cipher (1) and Dreams of Insanity (2)

This will incline people to bother with the level 17 Asspain quest that is Acute Delirium, and Heart of Madness which is often overlooked. It also doesn't matter that the level gap is wide, since you can only turn em in past 16, with the intention of helping people past that last XP hurdle to epic. 40k exp? Like Gianthold I suppose.