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unbongwah
03-14-2018, 02:31 PM
HA! Get it? "Scratch pad?" Because they have claws? It's - I say - it's wordplay, son, bon mots, that is!

Anyway, just a thread for some build ideas based on druid changes. DISCLAIMER: I hate minmaxing so don't bother telling me these aren't max-DPS builds which can't solo R10 Strahd (so why bother) - yes, I know, I also don't care. :p

Concept: DEX- and WIS-based melee / caster hybrid
Issue: Evasion is a tier-5 Nature's Warrior enhancement, but DEX to-hit and damage isn't an inherent class or tree ability for druids. MCed builds will have a few different options, but if you want a pure druid, you only have two options for DEX to-hit & dmg:

Use a named weapon (http://ddowiki.com/page/List_of_weapons_with_unusual_attack_or_damage_mods ) which natively supports it. [For non-druid 2H weapons, you also need the proficiency if you want to avoid the to-hit penalty. For 1H weapons, you can invest in UMD and use Master's Touch scrolls.]
Elf with Weapon Finesse + Aerenal Grace can get DEX to-hit & damage with rapiers in wolf form. [confirmed on Lama] The other racial melee weapons can get DEX to damage but not to-hit on pure druid. [looks like they already bugfixed the weirdness of using ranged / thrown weapons in animal form too]

This build is an example of the latter.

Race: elf
Class: druid 20
Stats (36 pt): WIS 18 (+lvl-ups) / DEX 18 / CON 14
Feats: Quicken (1), Precision (3), Weapon Finesse (6), ??? (9), IC:Pierce (12), ??? (15), Spell Focus:Evocation? (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), BoGW? (24), PTWF (26), ??? (27), ??? (28), Dire Charge? (29), Scion of Plane of Air? (30)

Lotta blank feat slots because it depends on what you want to emphasize: Natural Fighting feats for more melee DPS; metamagics for higher caster DPS; maybe even the two Augment Summons feats for better dogs. For maximum elf flavor sauce, add Shadow Dragonmark. :cool:

Enhancements: 41 Nature's Warrior (tier-5s + capstone) / 19 elf (Aerenal Grace + Skill) / 6 Nature's Protector (+20 PRR/MRR) / 11 Season's Herald (three cores for caster bonuses) with 3 APs left to tweak (Call Lightning SLA maybe)

Mainhand: rapiers eventually, though for early heroic leveling I recommend Sky Pirate's Dagger of Tiefling Assassin's Blade. [EDIT: you can also use Flame Blade, as WIS to dmg is now applying in animal forms.] At level 12 your crit threat range with rapiers becomes 15-20/x3 from IC:Pierce + Nature's Hunter. [In epics, drow rapier and Mutineer's Blade are 13-20/x3, Balizarde is 15-20/x4.]
Offhand: either orb for caster bonuses or shield for passive / defensive bonuses. Once you have Nature's Swiftness (Evasion), you can only use bucklers or small shields.

Gameplay: like I said, it's a melee / caster hybrid. Every time the temp SPs from Essence of Nature procs, you use a spell or wolf ability with them. Winter spec (cold / lightning).

unbongwah
03-14-2018, 02:32 PM
Concept: melee-focused bear which can Rage and cast Heal; loosely inspired by the Forest Master prestige class (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/forest-master/index.html) which uses mauls.
Issue: Rage of the Beast and barb Rage block druid spellcasting.
Solution: Destruction domain allows you to cast cleric spells (but JUST cleric spells) while Raged. Also bonuses to melee weapons carry over to animal forms; this should include Blessing of Silvanus.

Race: PDK

Silvanus is only available to four Forgotten Realms races: PDK, SDK, Deep Gnome, and Scourge Aasimar. [Morninglords (sun elves) are restricted to Amauntor only.] PDK get bonus feat making them the obvious choice.

Class: druid 3 / barb 6 / cleric 11 (Silvanus / Destruction) - LR +1 required

Druid 3 grants base bear form and access to the new Natural Fighting feats as well as tier-3 enhancements. Barb 6 for Rage plus enhancements (see below); also I think +10% run speed should carry over. Cleric 11 for Heal spell; Destruction domain so you can cast cleric spells while Raged; Silvanus for +2 crit range w/mauls.
Leveling is tricky due to initial fighter level: start out as ftr 1 / druid 3 / cleric 11; then LR +1 to get rid of ftr and replace with barb. Last 5 levels are barb.

Feats: Power Atk / Cleave / GC chain; IC:Blunt + Overwhelming Crit; Quicken (must-have on any caster esp. melee builds IMO); Stunning Blow; Epic DR.

That's six heroic and two epic feats, leaving room for all three Natural Fighting feats. Although you could trade one for Empower Heal.

Enhancements: 36 Ravager (Crit Rage + Blood Strength) / 14 Berserker (Supreme Cleave + Frenzy) / 13 Nature's Protector (+10 MP, +20 PRR/MRR, +25% HPs) / 12 Nature's Warrior (Prey on the Weak) / 4 Warpriest (Div Might) / 1 PDK (Dmg Boost)

AFAICT, barb Rage and Rage of the Beast enhancements are "cross-compatible," so to speak, as long as you're in animal form.
Final crit threat range with mauls should be 14-20/x3 with IC:Blunt, Crit Rage, Blessing of Silvanus, and Pulverizer (assuming it works in animal form).


Again: need a whole bunch of testing to confirm that everything fits together as intended.

EDIT: did some testing on Lama last night and everything appears to fit together as intended:


Blessing of Silvanus and Crit Rage stacking and applying to bear form with maul equipped? Check. [Forgot to test LD w/Pulverizer, though.]
Nature's Protector bonuses working in bear form with barb Rage? Check.
Able to cast cleric spells while Raged in bear form? Check.


The obvious question: how does it compare to other melee builds? The answer is I'M A GIANT ANGRY BEAR WITH A GIANT FREAKIN' HAMMER SO SHUT UP

EDIT: I've also considered druid 3 / cleric 6 (Strength domain) / barb 11 reversing the barb / cleric split. Basically you trade being able to cast cleric spells while Raged (bye-bye Heal) for Strength domain's bonus to Reflex saves and Greater Rage (+2 STR/CON and extra +10 MP).

edrein
03-14-2018, 02:37 PM
After having ran an fallen Aasimar barbarian for the past few weeks in Reaper, I'd say look there for a bearbarian build. Although pure 20 bear was ok. Once/if they fix the melee power scaling I think they'll be viable as a tank-DPS hybrid similar to Vanguard.

Caprice
03-14-2018, 03:28 PM
Note that the DEX to attack and damage bonuses for quarterstaves available in Thief Acrobat do work when using a staff in Wolf form (I haven't tested in Bear/WW/DB yet). However the attack speed passive from Thief Acrobatics does not apply. As expected from the developer notes Quick Strike is not available in animal form. So staff does not appear to be a viable choice for animal form, since none of the buffs that make it viable for melee affect animal form.

Also the Improved Shillelagh from the Nature's Herald cores does not seem to work on wooden staves at all (I have not tested non-staves yet). Hopefully that's a bug.

All the above is based on my testing on Lama today (14-Mar-2018).

Hjarki
03-15-2018, 10:00 AM
Concept: Melee-Focused Rage Wolf aiming for solid balance of self-preservation and damage.

Race: Aasimar Scourge. You get Lay on Hands (and Strength) in the cores, +5% Doublestrike for 2 additional AP.

Classes: 13/6/1 Druid/Cleric/Barbarian. A single level in Barbarian gives +10% movement speed and access to Extend Rage, Power Rage, Improved Power Attack, etc. 6 levels of Cleric grants Strength Domain (Strength to Reflex), +2 threat range on Mauls, Divine Might (probably not useful until endgame where you can blunder your way into 40+ Charisma without much effort since Charisma is otherwise not a key feature of the build). Nature's Warrior to T5 (Evasion, Jaws of the Great White Wolf), Nature's Protector to T3 (+25% hit points, Rage), Season's Herald to T4 (Spring Resurgence). In theory, you could also take Radiant Servant to get Divine Healing but this strikes me as likely too many trees/enhancements to be workable.

Feats: Power Attack, Quicken, Extend. Natural Fighting seems uninspiring, but there's plenty of room for it. Cleave/Great Cleave might well be superfluous but, again, plenty of room. In Epic levels, Epic Reflexes would let you effectively ignore one entire category of saves given your Rage-fueled Strength. I'm not sure exactly how Heighten or spell DC improvements in general affect the Wolf form spells.

With such a build, you could completely ignore Dexterity (although this would make your AC rather unimpressive) and rely on a combination of easy self-healing/control effects to back up your offense.

General thoughts:
1. I'm not sure what's up with Heavy Armor proficiency. This would be really nice - if all the decent heavy armors didn't break Druidic Oath.

2. Druidic Rage seems good, but it almost demands a single level of Barbarian (for Extend/Extra Rage if nothing else). Note that the loss of spellcasting isn't that big a deal, since you can cast Extended buffs beforehand and Druids have a host of options for healing while Raged (temporary hit point buffs, Spring Resurgence, etc.).

3. Non-Strength melee doesn't seem to make much sense. In theory, Wisdom-based melee might make some sense - except the only way to pull that off is 10+ levels of Favored Soul (at which point you've also thrown away most of the rationale for going Wisdom-based) or Flame Blade (at which point you're committing yourself to weak melee). Since all of the special attacks are Wisdom/Strength, picking something like Dexterity makes little sense. Even if you theorize about a Wisdom-based Flame Blade build, you're just gimping your ability to use those special attacks since Strength is far easier to buff than Wisdom.

4. Natural Fighting seems really poor. I find glancing blows generally uninspiring, and Natural Fighting doesn't deliver all that much on that front. The whole line seems a lot weaker than conventional feat lines.

5. T5 Wolf strikes me as a lot better than T5 Bear. T5 Wolf gives the ability to pile on temporary hit points, evasion and a nice boost to melee power. T5 Bear just gives the melee power.

6. Snowslide seems nice, but getting to level 9 spells is really difficult without making significant compromises.

unbongwah
03-15-2018, 10:15 AM
Race: Aasimar Scourge. You get Lay on Hands (and Strength) in the cores, +5% Doublestrike for 2 additional AP.
Random aside: I had considered a Scourge wolf druid using Cranium Cracker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Cranium_Cracker). That should be 18-20/x5 with Destroyer of the Dead, IC Blunt, and Nature's Hunter; and it gets +1[W] from Shillelagh+Nature's Wellspring, if/when that works right. The AP cost is kinda prohibitive though: 17 Scourge + 21 NW + 11 SH = 49 APs and you don't even have tier-4/5 NW yet, which effectively gobbles up most if not all the rest of your APs.

Nature's Protector to T3 (+25% hit points, Rage)
The Ursa Protector bonuses (inc. +25% HPs) only work in bear form.

1. I'm not sure what's up with Heavy Armor proficiency. This would be really nice - if all the decent heavy armors didn't break Druidic Oath.
Anything dragonscale is druid-compatible. Is Scales of Avarice (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Scales_of_Avarice) still "decent?"

4. Natural Fighting seems really poor. I find glancing blows generally uninspiring, and Natural Fighting doesn't deliver all that much on that front. The whole line seems a lot weaker than conventional feat lines.
Agreed. The silver lining to devs making NF even worse than it already is: I now consider them entirely optional. Maybe not the intended effect, though... :rolleyes:

Tilomere
03-15-2018, 12:30 PM
del

Notes:
Cleave's don't generally double strike, and cleaves are how melee generally clear out the game, so we will dump NF feats. Also there is no epic Master of Shapeshifted spells, so we know in advance they won't scale into epics, so we don't take metamagics to develop them in the first place. Our one free feat swap we could have used to do so is already used up by Enchant > Evo.
Snowslide has a hidden move speed boost of 50% for use with stealth. Just don't hit anyone with it. Dragon plate armor has very low armor check penalties for stealth.

unbongwah
03-15-2018, 01:21 PM
Cleave's don't generally double strike, and cleaves are how melee generally clear out the game, so we will dump NF feats.
Note that Natural Fighting no longer grants doublestrike; instead it grants Melee Power and (in bear form) glancing blow bonuses.

You're uhh not wrong about dumping those feats though. :p

Tilomere
03-15-2018, 01:34 PM
Note that Natural Fighting no longer grants doublestrike; instead it grants Melee Power and (in bear form) glancing blow bonuses.

You're uhh not wrong about dumping those feats though. :p

What's amusing is that it doesn't matter if it gave both.

When melee cleave to clear the game, double strike isn't that meaningful, especially if it comes at the cost of cleave feats, and when melee have 200 melee power, 2 melee power isn't meaningful.

That's why I wanted spell power on crit and quicken built into the feats (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494334-Druid-Update-Preview-V-2?p=6072782&viewfull=1#post6072782), and a Master of Forms feat.

I like my proposal better, but give me anything with a usable AoE stun DC, and I'll make it work.

I really like my build above. The dragon plate armors druids wear have low armor check penalties (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:White_Dragonplate_Armor), which will allow stealthing through the game. Bard gives stealth skills at full ranks. Druid gives move speed for stealth.

Bard also is giving a Suggestion SLA that will ignore the ASF of that dragonplate and as an SLA ignores animal form spell cooldown increases, martial weapon + tower shield proficiency via master's touch, and a mega crit double cleave attack, that will combo with riftmaker/sos and the crit multiplier in NW, as well as more strength for druid tactics. Plus UMD, who doesn't love UMD.

Cleric gives plate proficiency for that dragonplate, divine might for even more strength for druid tactics and combat, and we are going to use the turn undead charges which are based on charisma for triple cleave attacks in epics, and night shield spell vs. magic missiles.

That's such a nice way everything comes together!

Any rage that blocks spell casting is a trap. Don't go there. Try explore 6 cleric- sylvanus + strength domain to fuel T5 NW evasion. I think you will have better luck.

Hjarki
03-15-2018, 02:01 PM
Random aside: I had considered a Scourge wolf druid using Cranium Cracker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Cranium_Cracker). That should be 18-20/x5 with Destroyer of the Dead, IC Blunt, and Nature's Hunter; and it gets +1[W] from Shillelagh+Nature's Wellspring, if/when that works right. The AP cost is kinda prohibitive though: 17 Scourge + 21 NW + 11 SH = 49 APs and you don't even have tier-4/5 NW yet, which effectively gobbles up most if not all the rest of your APs.

I've been trying to come up with a decent justification for one-handed weapons and I just can't do it - the loss of 0.5xstat is just too huge when you can't compensate with combat feat lines. Unless you're trying for a purely defensive build, you're going to lose a lot of damage. I'm also very wary of tying a build to a specific, probably-won't-be-replicated weapon.


The Ursa Protector bonuses (inc. +25% HPs) only work in bear form.

Ah - missed that part. Oh well. You know what they say: "hit points are for people who don't know how to accept the Res". The downgrade in damage from Wolf -> Bear is fairly steep.


Anything dragonscale is druid-compatible. Is Scales of Avarice (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Scales_of_Avarice) still "decent?"

This is another "tie your build to one specific piece of equipment" problem. In the absence of Druidic Oath, it's unlikely you'd choose Scales of Avarice. It's not quite as massive a downgrade as the Club over Ravenloft gear, but it's still a downgrade. You're also relying on them making non-metal heavy armor going forward - which isn't necessarily a good bet. I'll admit there's more to the world that Heavy Armor vs. Evasion, but Druidic Oath really tilts me in the direction of Evasion.


21 Natures Warrior +1 Crit Multiplier

Currently, A True Hunter (NW/Core 4) gives +1 to hit, not +1 critical multiplier.

Tilomere
03-15-2018, 02:08 PM
Currently, A True Hunter (NW/Core 4) gives +1 to hit, not +1 critical multiplier.

So a bug? Or is it an unlisted change post release notes?

Nature's Warrior:
Cores:
Nature's Warrior: each Core grants 8 Hit Points, +1 Sneak Attack dice in Wolf form and +1 damage in Wolf and Bear form.
Natural Senses: Your attacks penetrate 10% of your enemies Fortification, +3 to Listen, Spot and Search.
Nature's Bounty: While in Animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 2.0. Does not stack with Nature's Protector Cores. Wolf Form movement speeds are increased by an additional 1% for every two Druid levels.
Nature's Hunter: In Wolf or bear form you gain a +1 Competency bonus to your Critical Damage Multiplier on your weapon. Requires a weapon to be equipped.
Howling Frost: Casting Howl of Terror now grants you "Winter Hunt" for 10 seconds which grants +10 Melee Power and 25% bonus to Spell Critical damage (50% to Spell Critical Damage for Cold damage spells.) This only occurs once every 30 seconds.
Avatar of the Hunter: You hae mastered the art of wielding Divine magic in animal form, and using it to empower your body in physical combat. While in animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 1.5. Does not stack with Nature's Protector cores. Passive: +2 Strength and Wisdom and +10 to Doublestrike and Physical Resistance Rating.

unbongwah
03-15-2018, 02:09 PM
I've been trying to come up with a decent justification for one-handed weapons and I just can't do it - the loss of 0.5xstat is just too huge when you can't compensate with combat feat lines. Unless you're trying for a purely defensive build, you're going to lose a lot of damage.
If you're playing pure druid, you don't have any useful 2H proficiencies besides staves. So that's an issue if you're not MCing. I'm waiting to see how the shield feats shake out; apparently the doublestrike bonuses are still applying from Shield Mastery but that's...probably not WAI?

You're also relying on them making non-metal heavy armor going forward - which isn't necessarily a good bet. I'll admit there's more to the world that Heavy Armor vs. Evasion, but Druidic Oath really tilts me in the direction of Evasion.
Then stick to non-metal medium armor: lose a little PRR, gain higher MDB / Dodge bonus. Free heavy armor prof is a perk, not a build requirement, after all.

Basically my build efforts are split between pure druids which are built the way I think SSG intends them to be played; and MCed builds designed to exploit synergies for the way DDO is actually played. :rolleyes: Then I'll figure out which I actually want to play.

Silverleafeon
03-15-2018, 03:14 PM
New final build
Pure Wisdom Caster Druid with focus on SLAs & DCs


Aasimar Scourge ~ requires +1 heart to get rid of ranger 1
or Aasimar as desired

Str 08 (0)
Dex 08 (0)
Con 16 (10)
Int 16 (10)
Wis 20 (16)
Cha 08 (0) {Given the reduced casting time of reincarnation, cha focus is less necessary}



Skills in order of importance:

Concentration max
Spellcraft max
Heal max
Tumble 1 rank
Balance 10 ranks
Jump 10 ranks
UMD max
Perform max if planning Shirdai ED
Search max if planning on finding hidden doors via scrolled Find Traps spell




Feats

1) Maximize
3) Completionist
6) Empower
9) Enlarge
12) Quicken
15) Spell Focus (Evocation)
18) Heighten
21) ? Past Life: Arcane Initiate / Extend (if in Fire Form) / Augment Summoning (more desirable given removal of Pet Death Penalty) / Wellspring of Power (if sloting Otto's Irrevocable Power)
24) Master of the Wild {Given the decrease in SLA cooldowns this becomes more desirable}
26ED) ? Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft) / Epic Spellpower (Fire/Cold/Electric) {unsure if overall +5 universal <=> +20 one element?}
27) Intensify {Given the decrease in SLA cooldowns this becomes more desirable} / Ruin {if seeking Greater Ruin at level 30}
28ED) Mass Frog {try it, you might grow to like it}
29ED) ? Arcane Pulse {likely best overall} / Spirit Blades {if in Shirdai ED} / Dire Charge {unlikely due to poor attack bonuses}
30) ? Burst of Glacial Wrath / Ruin / Improved Augment Summoning / Arcane Insight (if sloting Otto's Irrevocable Power) / Embolden Spell / Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
30LG) Air



Epic Destinies:

Primal (for raids?)
Shirdai (for R1~6 quests) {Druid falls apart in Reaper 8+, like most other builds}

Twists:
1) Tier Four: Draconic Energy Burst (fire/cold) given the new immunity breaker, and the lack of AoE spells
2) Tier Three: Magistar [Evocation Spell School] Augmentation
3) Tier Two: Magistar [Evocation Spell School] Specialist
4) Tier Two: Draconic Precise Casting: Evocation
5) Empty due to upgrading slot four



Spells ~ see the list of useful spells on DDO wiki:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_usefulness#Druid



Enhancements

Racial

Aasimar/Scourage (pretty much the same tree for a caster)

Take all Cores = 5 points spent ~ you want all of these regardless

Tier One Aasimar Improved Recovery = 2 points spent

Tier Two Arcanum = 6 points spent ~ somewhere along here become optional

Tier Three Aasimar Improved Recovery = 2 points spent

Tier Four Aasimar Improved Recovery = 2 points spent (definately optional)

{Why the push for Healing Amp? Because Druid Casters rarely get more than an occasional Cocoon from other party members.}



NATURE'S PROTECTOR {Optional goal to get +2 Wis at a cost of 24ish action points} {Also Hybrids might consider this path}

Cores 1 thru 5 = 5 points spent

Tier One:
Improved Nature's Defense: Competence bonus PRR MRR 4/8/12 = 3 points spent (total = 8)

Tier Two:
Improved Nature's Defense: Competence bonus Saving Throws = 3 points spent (total = 11)
Thick Hide: Nature Armor Bonus 2/4 = 2 points spent (total = 13)

Tier Three:
+1 Wisdom = 2 points spent (total = 15)
Spirit Refreshed = 2 points spent (total = 17)
Ursa Protector: While in bear form nature's defense now does +15/20/25 % to max hp = 3 points spent (total = 20)

Tier Four:
+1 Wisdom = 2 points spent (total = 22)
Spirit Refreshed = 2 points spent (total = 24)



SEASONS HERALD most important tree for casters

Cores: Take all six = 6 points spent (total = 6)

Tier One:
Wax and Wane = 2 points spent (total = 8)
Produce Flame = 3 points spent (total = 11)
Druidic Wisdom = 3 points spent (total = 14) ~ double universal spellpower optional
Shared Spirit = 3 points spent (total = 17) ~ double universal spellpower optional

Tier Two:
Wax and Wane = 2 points spent (total = 19)
Creeping Cold = 3 points spent (total = 22)

Tier Three:
Autumn Leaves = 1 point spent (total = 23)
Wax and Wane = 2 points spent (total = 25)
Call Lighting = 3 points spent (total = 28)
Wisdom = 2 points spent (total =30)

Tier Four
Spring Resurgence = 3 points spent (total = 33)
Strength of the Solstice = 2 points spent (total = 35)
Wax and Wane = 2 points spent (total = 37)
Salt Ray = 3 points spent (total = 40)
Wisdom = 2 points spent (total = 42)

Tier Five
Crown of Summer = 1 point spent (total = 43)
Master of the Elements = 3 points spent (total = 46)
Time and Time again = 2 points spent (total = 48)
Word of Balance = 3 points spent (total = 51)
Armor of Winter = 2 points spent (total = 53)

One could remove the six optional points from tier one to drop down to 47 points for a hybrid build.

One could add Tier two Action Boost for an additional three points, increasing to 56 points spent in the tree.

Also of interest are the Metamagic Cost Reducers which could increase the tree cost by 18 points for a total of 74 points.




Epic Destiny: Shirdai
Points
Tier One Wild Shots 3 / Wisdom 2
Tier Two Prism 2 / Wisdom 2
Tier Three Rainbow 2 / Wisdom 2
Tier Four Double Rainbow 2 / Wisdom 2
Tier Five Nerve Venom 3 / Wisdom 2
Tier Six Rain of Arrows 2


Twists
Tier Four: Red Dragon Spell Knowledge from Draconic
Tier Three: Magistar Evocation Augmentation
Tier Two: Magistar Evocation Specialist
Tier One: Avenging Light

At Legendary gain an additional Tier One: various?




Active Toggles:
Sun Elf
Energy Criticals (which I turn off and on every time I log in)
Power Over Life and Death (Block Energy if in the new raid)
Skill Mastery
Color of the Queen (reaper) or Fast Healing (non reaper)
Rainbow (have to turn this one on when I log in)
Fire/Water/Winter Wolf form stance (have to turn in when ever you die)

Important Spells Memorized:
{Add various healing spells as you level up then replace with better ones}
{Prefer not to Meta these spells unless you know you have shrine soon}
{Have tried Meta on some spells and seems to work fairly well, spell point management is important task for Druids.}
{All SLAs should be fully Meta at all times because its free to do so.}
{Always Quicken Heals, Earthquakes, Sleet Storm, Call Lighting Storm}

Level One:
Produce Flame ~ non meta cooldown 1 second
Jump
Other: {Farie Fire/Entangle/Pass without Trace/Merfolk's Blessing}

Level Two:
Resist Energy
Pact Pressence
Creeping Cold
Splinterbolt
Gust of Wind (can use scrolls for this even Cyclonic Blast Scrolls)

Level Three
Sleet Storm (be sure and FoM party)
Call Lighting (when you get this heroics becomes so much easier)
Salt Ray
Quench
Spider Skin
Spike Growth

Level Four
Freedom of Movement (FoM)
Flame Strike
Ice Storm
Other: Enveloping Swarm (might cause a Shirdai procure so fairly cheap if cast without meta)

Level Five
Call Lighting Storm
Wall of Fire
Death Ward
Pack Aptitude
Reincarnate (carry Rez scrolls too)

Level Six
Fire Seeds
Fire Shield
Greater Creeping Cold
Word of Balance
Tenacious Pack

Level Seven
Greater Vigor Mass (Stacks with Mass Regeneration so cast both when needed)
Body of the Sun (why you are taking Extend which you can drop if you only want to focus on cold)
Firestorm
Freezing Spray
Sunbeam
Other: Creeping Doom might be good, not tested enough while watching effects, hard to find room to slot in.

Level Eight
Heal
Earthquake
Fires of Purity (but most melee will not even stay still long enough to cast DW & FoM on them)
Sunburst
Finger of Death
Ice Flowers (I like to leave options open to go ice or fire form when desired)

Level Nine
All of them

unbongwah
03-15-2018, 03:17 PM
Aasimar Scourge ~ requires +1 heart to get rid of ranger 1
You didn't list enhancements. Is there any particular reason to use Scourge rather than regular Aasimar?

Silverleafeon
03-15-2018, 03:25 PM
You didn't list enhancements.

Will work on adding a list thanks...

Still looks like mostly everything into Season's Herald for the +1 universal Spell Power, unless one want to pursue the +1 wis & +1 wis from the Bear tree.



Is there any particular reason to use Scourge rather than regular Aasimar?

+1 con from stance, along with starting at level 15 to work up to endgame

Other than that Aasimar > Scourge especially for anyone not wanting to pay to win or only staying a few months at level cap.

SerPounce
03-15-2018, 03:27 PM
I like coming up with the pure build I like the most, then seeing if I can beat it with multiclassing.


Mr Fundamentals
Half elf Druid 20 (wolf focus)

This build gets capstone advantages, can use any martial 2 hander, gets tactical bonuses from KtA and Half elf fighter enhancement, and evasion fueled by INT to reflex.

STR 18 (lvl ups in STR)
CON 16
INT 16

Feats: [edited for better AoE, dropping Natural fighting]
1. Power Attack
1. Half elf: fighter
3. Cleave
6. Great Cleave
9. Insightful reflexes
12. Improved Crit (Probably slashing)
15. Quicken
18. Natural fighting 1/ Completionist/ stunning blow

Enhancements
Half Elf: 17
+2 Str, +1 INT (or CON), +6% to hit, +2 tactics, +3 hit/dmg, +20% amp

Wolf: 41

Bear: 11
3 cores for HP/MRR/Heavy armor option, Stance for PRR/MRR/Saves

Harper: 8
Know the angles

And a few points to play with

I've seen a lot of posts saying multiclass is required, but this seems hard to beat for me. You get full caster levels for mass regenerate and the best cooldowns an animal can get. You can use a nightmother falchion or a named 2 hander for good DPS. You get high tactics from max druid lvls (not listed in the lamania OP, but in the other one all the animal attacks got 1/2 druid lvl), and some bonus from half elf.

Disadvantages/concerns:
I don't know how well evasion will work even with a secondary stat fueling it. Might be better putting on heavy armor and using insightful reflexes on something else (e.g. another natural fighting).

AoE DPS could be better. Hard to tell how those T5 Wolf enhancements will really work out in practice. Easy switch though. Trade precision for PA, and 2 NF feats for cleaves. Keep the last NF. They scale completely linearly so there's no reason it's all or none with NF as currently planned and +4 Melee power, +4 PRR, +1 DCs is a decent feat even if disappointing for a fighting style feat. [edit: switched the basic build to prefer cleaves. Natural fighting is pretty optional in it's current state, I'd rather have cleaves]

edrein
03-15-2018, 03:33 PM
If you're playing pure druid, you don't have any useful 2H proficiencies besides staves. So that's an issue if you're not MCing. I'm waiting to see how the shield feats shake out; apparently the doublestrike bonuses are still applying from Shield Mastery but that's...probably not WAI?

Then stick to non-metal medium armor: lose a little PRR, gain higher MDB / Dodge bonus. Free heavy armor prof is a perk, not a build requirement, after all.

Basically my build efforts are split between pure druids which are built the way I think SSG intends them to be played; and MCed builds designed to exploit synergies for the way DDO is actually played. :rolleyes: Then I'll figure out which I actually want to play.

It's clear to me that they actually intend for you to multiclass. However, it should be noted that the multiclass is meant for Barbarian, Bard, and Ranger. AKA: Any class with Wilderness lore. Now if they really want to up the ante on the whole Multiclass is the only way to play DDO anymore logic they seem to push with each pass, I'd suggest going and giving wilderness lore to certain cleric domains at a staggered rate like Bards (save for Animal Domain, they clearly deserve full Wilderness Lore progression.)

Silverleafeon
03-15-2018, 03:43 PM
It's clear to me that they actually intend for you to multiclass.

That last minute alteration of wolf attack speed gives one pondering:

Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid.

However, I would expect a typical melee build to consider multi-classing as Caster Levels are far less important to that type of build.

Tilomere
03-15-2018, 03:51 PM
AoE DPS could be better. Hard to tell how those T5 Wolf enhancements will really work out in practice.

A single hit 12 second cleave...

I know exactly how well that will work out, which is why I added cleave, great cleave, En Pointe, and Confront Any Foe.

unbongwah
03-15-2018, 03:52 PM
Nature's Warrior capstone is...okay (+10% doublestrike), but it's clear to me that devs intend pure wolf builds to be melee / caster hybrids. Otherwise why put so much emphasis on cold-spell boosts (Winter Hunt, Great White Wolf) and put the spell cooldown reductions in the cores? Which is how I wanted to play my wolf druid all along (I hated feeling like I needed to use the bug exploits to stay competitive), so I'm actually happy about that...at least in theory. We'll see how it works in practice. But if your focus is just on melee DPS, you're either gonna multiclass or use Vistani tree (or both).

So I would expect the two most common break points for wolf builds to be either druid 8 (winter wolf form) and 12 (+1 crit multiplier - when it's fixed, ofc).

Druid 8 opens up a lot of 8 / 12 or 8/6/6 combos: e.g., druid 8 / barb 12, druid 8 / ftr 12, druid 8 / barb 6 / ftr 6, depending on priorities. Druid 8 / cleric or FvS 6 (Silvanus) also an option.

Druid 12: I was thinking druid 12 / monk 6 / <splash> 2 for tier-5 Ninja + Nature's Hunter using kamas or short swords. Henshin nerfed just as druid is fixed but oh well. Haven't thought that out yet though.



Bear builds, OTOH, it actually feels like Dire Bear is being deprecated.


In the past, you went to druid 9 for Natural Fighting feats; which meant you picked up Dire Bear or Winter Wolf on the way. But now you only need druid 3 for NF feats. Also the feats are even more terrible now so NBD if you skip. :p

wolf -> winter wolf is +15% attack speed (15% -> 30%). That certainly justifies the 6 extra druid levels, even if you ignore the higher-tier enhancements & spells.

OTOH, bear -> dire bear only gets you +2 CON and +5% AC. Which don't really matter that much if you're melee-focused. Before you needed dire bear for the DPS upgrade (d8 20/x2 -> d12 20/x3); but the changes to animal-form DPS mean that doesn't matter.


So if you're not sticking with pure druid for the higher level spells and Enhancements (or just flavor), it opens the door to druid 3-splashed bears like my build above, particularly if you want to use Rage, you pretty much have to combine with barb Rage enhancements, because Rage of the Beast is pretty weaksauce on its own right now.

SerPounce
03-15-2018, 03:58 PM
[deleted]

SerPounce
03-15-2018, 04:02 PM
[FONT=verdana]Nature's Warrior capstone is...okay (+10% doublestrike),
+10 doublestrike, +10 PRR, +1d6 SA, +8 HP, +2 STR/WIS, +1 damage, +1 tactics for animal attacks (from durid levels so in addition to the str/wis), and reduced cooldowns (mass regenerate).

unbongwah
03-15-2018, 04:03 PM
That last minute alteration of wolf attack speed gives one pondering:

Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid.
I believe that refers to their movement speed bonus; winter wolf attack speed appears to still be fixed at 30%.

3. Wolf form attack animations and movement speed has been adjusted.


We are reducing the Basic Wolf Form attack speed bonus to 15%. Winter wolf remains about the same speed at 30%. We are also fixing some flaky behavior in the attack chain.

All Wolf Speed increases now stacks with haste and other speed effects

Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid.


So the first point is about attack speed while the last line is about movement speed...I think. It is a bit confusingly worded. You would think SSG had learned their lesson (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html) by now!

[If anyone's wondering: no, I will never get tired of reposting that comic. :cool:]

edrein
03-15-2018, 04:06 PM
That last minute alteration of wolf attack speed gives one pondering:

Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid.

However, I would expect a typical melee build to consider multi-classing as Caster Levels are far less important to that type of build.

I read that as move speed, given the line previous stated that they retained the same 30% attack speed boost while regular wolves went down to 15%.

Sormiron
03-15-2018, 04:18 PM
Tested a few things.

Orcish Rage action boost works with Bear enhancements. 75 meleepower boost is kinda sweet.

Jaws of winter does not seem to work propperly (from strength and or items or just in general?), It just didnt work most of the time while stunning blow (wai?)m trip feat and greater maul did. I was using strength as mainstat.

Tremmor seems to work as a cleave attack dealing weapon damage and knocking things down for a few seconds. I do not know if that is what it was intended to be but I like it.

relentless onslaugt is awsome. but I might drop it and go for less druid levels if I play one on my main.

Harrowing pack still doesnt seem to knock down on a natural 20.

Savage roar with the stun effect is very neat and a fun mechanic using shred and maul/great maul. there isnt too much required to make it work.

Greater maul seem to cause an aoe stun but only damages the target. I am not sure how it is supposed to work

The bear is where I am at atm with all the aoe damage and cc, but then I do tend to multiclass and I have not tested snow slide.
I am unsure of if I will ever use the raging unless I am an orc and even then I would probably think about it a bit. I do not realy like not being able to heal up in a fight.

I think I will end up with some cleric in the strength domain for strength to reflex, Divine might and possible some fighter levels for feats. that is how it looks like right now.
The top tier cores are not that great. Lower spell cooldown sure, but then you want me to be enraged and not cast? make up your mind and do not leave me in the middle ;)

Silverleafeon
03-15-2018, 04:18 PM
Hmm...well that makes wolves = a form of choice when trying to get somewhere faster or make incredible jumps...

SerPounce
03-15-2018, 04:43 PM
Max Tactics hybrid bear (easily switched to wolf)

PDK Druid 18/FVS 1/FTR 1 (sadly I think you will still need a +1 heart due to feats)

CON 16
WIS 18 +lvl ups
CHA 16

Feats:
Quicken, NFx3, PA, Cleave, G. Cleave, SF: evocation (or replace PA+ cleaves with precision, competionist, one other)

Enhancements
PDK: 3: Cormyrean Knight Training (1/3 CHA to tactics)

Warsoul: 4: Divine Will

Bear: ~35 (T+core 5)

Wolf: ~25 (core 4 for +1 multiplier, T4)

Total tactics: (base) + 9 [.5 druid levels] + 1.5 WIS [basic +divine will] + .33 CHA + Tactics

You also have wis focus so you can throw the occasional earthquake against low reflex mobs. Some legendary melee mobs have amazingly bad reflex saves.

elvesunited
03-15-2018, 04:44 PM
[FONT=verdana]Nature's Warrior capstone is...okay (+10% doublestrike), but it's clear to me that devs intend pure wolf builds to be melee / caster hybrids. Otherwise why put so much emphasis on cold-spell boosts (Winter Hunt, Great White Wolf) and put the spell cooldown reductions in the cores? Which is how I wanted to play my wolf druid all along (I hated feeling like I needed to use the bug exploits to stay competitive), so I'm actually happy about that...at least in theory. We'll see how it works in practice. But if your focus is just on melee DPS, you're either gonna multiclass or use Vistani tree (or both).

Here are 4 pure Druid Wolf Builds that are not caster hybrids:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Race: Half-Orc ( Max Str and put points in Con and Wis )
Enhancemnts : 41 N Warrior 11 N Protect 20 Half-Orc 8 Harper
Feats: Nat Fighting x3, Martial Weapons, Power Attack, Imp Critical, Quicken

Race and enhancement stats: +8 Str*, -2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Cha

Weapon :Falchion ( Str +50% ) -3 to hit ( -2 vs evil ) +34 Damage
Critical: 15-20 x3 | Doublestrike:+10 | Melee Power: +21
Tactics:+3 (+6 Trip )

Max Armor: Heavy
Max Shield : None

Hp: +96 | PRR: 72 + shelter | MRR: 31 + shelter | Dodge:3 + items
+4 Spellpower

Specials: Half Orc Crushing Blow ( auto crit ), Orc Rage ( +46 Melee Power +2 Str )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Race: Dragonborn or Human ( Max Str and put points in Con and Wis )
Enhancements: 41 N Warrior 28 VIstanti 11 Nature Protector
Dragon born Feats: Nat Fighting x3, Weap Focus, Power Attack, Imp Critical, Quicken
Human Feats: Nat Fighting x3, Cleave, Power Attack, Imp Critical, Quicken, Great Cleave

Dragonborn Race and enhancement stats: +8 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Human Race and Enhancement stats: +6 Str, +2 Wis

Weapon : Dagger ( Str ) +1(0 human) to hit +22 Damage +1W (+2 more W with dethek )
Critical: 16-20 x3 | Doublestrike:+20 | Melee Power: +20(18 Human)
Tactics:+3 (+6 Trip )

Max Armor: Heavy
Max Shield : Tower ( with Master Scroll )

Hp:+86 | PRR:94 + shelter | MRR:53 + shelter | Dodge:3 + items

Specials: Immune to Fear and Energy Drain, Deflect Arrows, 25% Neg Absorb

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Race: Elf ( Max Dex and put points in Con and Wis )
Enhancements: 41 N Warrior 19 Elf VIstanti 6 N Protector 14 Harper
Feats: Nat Fighting x3, Weapon Finesse, Imp Critical, Power Attack, Quicken

Race and enhancement stats: +2 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Wis, -2 Con

Weapon : Rapier ( Dex ) +3(+6 Evil) to hit +19(+21 Evil) Damage
Critical: 15-20 x3 | Doublestrike:+13 | Melee Power: +22
Tactics(Wis):+3 (+6 Trip )

Max Armor: Light
Max Shield : Small

Hp:+81 | PRR:62 + shelter | MRR:31 + shelter | Dodge:6 + items
+9 Spellpower

Specials: Evasion

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Race: Gnome ( Max Int and put points in Con and Wis )
Enhancements: 41 N Warrior 31 Harper 7 N Protector 1 Gnome
Feats: Nat Fighting x3, Insightful Reflexes, Power Attack, Imp Critical, Quicken

Race and enhancement stats: +6 Int +4 Wis

Weapon : Scimitar ( Int ) -4(+2 Evil) to hit +15(+20 Evil) + Know Angles Damage
Critical: 15-20 x3 | Doublestrike:+10 | Melee Power: +27
Tactics(Wis): +3 (+6 Trip ) + Know Angles

Max Armor: Light
Max Shield : Small

Hp:+71 | PRR:62 + shelter | MRR:31 + shelter | Dodge:4 + items
+28 Spellpower ( +43 positive )

Specials: Evasion. +20% heal amp 10% neg absorb

Tilomere
03-15-2018, 04:56 PM
You haven't tested them have you?

The descriptions are wrong.

So throat rip is WWA-ish, 1-3 hits, two seconds to use?

And so alpha is whatever it is.

I like my build even more now. 6 cleaves. I, uh, suppose that'll work! :)

Des0xyn
03-16-2018, 12:51 AM
Have not been on Lammy yet, due time constraints =(

But some thoughts I had was towards a 17druid, 1fvs, 2 ranger (wolf form, dex to hit/dmg, tactics focused)

Nature warrior: 36-40 (tier 5s)
Nature Prot: 6+ (stance, excess aps here)
Season Herald: 4 (beguile)
Warsoul: 4 (divine will)
DWS: 6 (imp. weapon finesse)
HORC: 19 (orchish rage, brutality, raging crush, larger "size")

DWS would give some more animal empathy charges too, if some of the clickies need it for uses (seems to have been removed from the release notes in this sub forum). Larger range of weapons too if imp. weapon finesse works in animal form.

Gotta test on live I guess if the wolf can survive off temp hp alone while in orchish rage (or I could drop consecration I guess), and if you can still perform animal form "spell attacks" in orchish rage. Also if brutality is still recognized in animal form.

Xyfiel
03-16-2018, 01:27 AM
Tried a few builds but didn't like them. Working on 14Ftr/5Bear/1Barb or 14/4/2 depending on which tier V I want. Not going to plan it out any further until a lot of the broken things are fixed. Likely in preview 2.

unbongwah
03-16-2018, 09:50 AM
DWS: 6 (imp. weapon finesse)
Might as well pick up Melee Power Boost too for another 3 APs.

DWS would give some more animal empathy charges too, if some of the clickies need it for uses
Flight still uses Wild Empathy charges. I didn't check to see what else did.

Larger range of weapons too if imp. weapon finesse works in animal form.
IIUC, Improved Weapon Finesse will apply in animal form to any weapon which would normally get DEX to damage in humanoid form: i.e. light weapons (plus rapiers if you have Weapon Finesse feat). But that means it only works with 1H weapons, so your HO bonuses to 2H weapons would be wasted APs. But did not test rgr / drd yet.

unbongwah
03-16-2018, 10:31 AM
Concept: TYWA bear pure druid
Issues: CON to dmg but to-hit still based on STR so will need at least a little STR (plus Power Atk pre-req)

Race: dwarf
Class: druid 20
Stats (36 pt): CON 20 / WIS 18 (+lvl ups) / STR 10 (+3 tome) / INT 10 (+3 tome)

WIS for DCs, CON to dmg, STR to-hit - more MAD than I would like, tbh, but that's dwarf life for ya

Feats: Quicken (1), Power Atk (3), Cleave (6), Gt Cleave (9), Imp Crit (12), CE or NF (15), SF:Evo or NF (18), OC (21), Shield Deflection or NF (24), Epic DR or Emp Heal (27), NF or Epic Fortitude (30)


Natural Fighting feats are even more weaksauce now than they were before, so I consider them optional. I'm presuming Shield Deflection still works in animal forms.
Combat Expertise is for AC & PRR bonus in epics; due to extra spell CD penalty, only use it for serious tanking. Though TBH if you really want a high-AC bear build, you probably need to look into MCing for more AC (e.g., ftr, Protection domain cleric).

Enhancements: 18 dwarf (TYWA) / 41 NP (tier-5 + capstone) / 21 NW (+1 crit multiplier)

extra racial APs would let you invest more into NW (Fatal Harry, 4LG) or SH (Beguile, caster bonuses)


Gameplay: focus on AoE melee, spamming bear attacks, CC spells like Sleet Storm & Earthquake, self-/AoE-heals

Essence of the Turtle on live is not great, but on Lama bears have gone from having a poor temp-SP ability to having no temp-SP ability. That's uhh not an improvement. :mad: And more to the point, you have to be even more sparing with your spells than wolves.


Mainhand: has to be one of the TYWA-compatible weapons, of course. I was thinking Deathnip would be great for 14-20. Not sure what to use in epics.

Armor & shield: medium armor + heavy shield most of the time; heavy armor + tower shield for max defenses if they're druid-compatible. E.g., Shadow Guardian + Demonic Slab maybe?

elvesunited
03-16-2018, 11:42 AM
I'm at a loss for bear

--- A short rage that doesn't have enough uses to viable in even short quests
--- A self heal ability ( Spirit Renewal ) that has a usage requirement that isn't practical.
--- A subpar glancing blow that requires turning off all benefits from Nature Defense and Ursa Protector first.
--- Stacking killer instinct requiring constant casting of low damage spells but no way to offset sp drain with temp sp.
--- No strength option iin Ursa Protector but an MRR option that pales in comparison to a tier 1 ability.
--- Weak damage that barely scales from Lightning strikes the mountain and Tremor.


Bear is a tease! A fake out!
It give rage only to weaken it in a way to make it worthless.
It gives glancing blow only to nerf it and then cripple you when you use it.
It gives killer instinct only to then not provide the means to cast the spells needed to maintain it.

Over and over it gives some power only to do something else that renders that power impotent!

I've got no pure Bear Druid build. The best I can come up with is to Tier 5 in Kensei and Tier 4 in Stalwart Defender.
At least the fighter enhancements won't bleed you dry of sp!

But nature protector? It's a splash tree for elementals and wolves. and nothing else.

Maelodic
03-16-2018, 12:10 PM
I haven't had much access to a decent computer - but did anybody test the Dragonborn breath augmentations with Cold Breath? Relentless Breath on the low cooldown no save cold spell that you can cast for free after a crit looks *really* tasty.

Also, still no idea on the DC calculation for Howl. It's such a good ability- and is always off cooldown.

It's also really tempting for that temp HP T5 in Herald to do a 41 NW / 39 SH caster using Essence as an SP battery; Howl, Glacial Wrath, and Earthquake for amazing CC; and have enemies sit your storm and beat the tar out of them with your "SLA" which is just flame blade in wolf form spamming cold breath when Essence pops.

Lots of ideas buzzing, really excited about this self-healing hybrid puppy. Hopefully I'll have my computer back up before the next lamannia test.

unbongwah
03-16-2018, 12:43 PM
but did anybody test the Dragonborn breath augmentations with Cold Breath?
I did not, but I would be really surprised if it did, since Dragon Breath has always been its own thing and Augmented Breath is clearly meant to apply only to Dragon Breath attacks. Druid Cold Breath is still just a spell despite the word "breath" in the name.

Of course, how things ought to work and how they actually work ain't always the same thing in DDO so :rolleyes:

It's also really tempting for that temp HP T5 in Herald to do a 41 NW / 39 SH caster using Essence as an SP battery
I considered this, but it meant no APs for NP. +20 PRR / +28 MRR for 6 APs on an otherwise squishy build is too good to pass up, IMO.

Maelodic
03-16-2018, 01:32 PM
I did not, but I would be really surprised if it did, since Dragon Breath has always been its own thing and Augmented Breath is clearly meant to apply only to Dragon Breath attacks. Druid Cold Breath is still just a spell despite the word "breath" in the name.

Of course, how things ought to work and how they actually work ain't always the same thing in DDO so :rolleyes:

IIRC it was catagorized as a breath attack previously and benefitted from bonuses to DC from breath attacks. I wasn't able to test the dragonborn enhancement but I was able to determine that the DC was being added so I'll have to test next run of previews.


I considered this, but it meant no APs for NP. +20 PRR / +28 MRR for 6 APs on an otherwise squishy build is too good to pass up, IMO.

Yeah... and having 200-300 extra temp HP is probably not worth it over the tankyness - the 300 temp HP from NW will probably go just as far with an extra bit of beefyness.

Silverleafeon
03-16-2018, 02:54 PM
Added Aasimar / Scourge racial path
& option +2 Wis from Protector Tree path (which might suit Hybrid Builds)
enhancement trees

Added Season's Herald Enhancement choice picks with options.

Silverleafeon
03-16-2018, 05:18 PM
IIRC it was catagorized as a breath attack previously and benefitted from bonuses to DC from breath attacks.

Yes.

Still prefer Aasimar Lay on Hands > Dragonborn breath extras for a Caster build, however a hybrid wolf build might prefer dragonborn.

unbongwah
03-16-2018, 05:25 PM
IIRC it was catagorized as a breath attack previously and benefitted from bonuses to DC from breath attacks.
Really? Okay, that's surprising but it could be...cool.

Does Memory of Flight work in animal forms? I'm picturing a DB druid which flies around in doggo form breathing frost. Because we know wolves with wings (https://www.google.com/search?q=wolf+with+wings&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS764US764&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIns-Y8fHZAhULTd8KHU39AN8QsAQIKA&biw=1920&bih=984) are a thing amirite?

Silverleafeon
03-16-2018, 06:16 PM
.Does Memory of Flight work in animal forms??

I used Memory of Flight a fair amount not sure actually in Wolf form (never used Bear), but it is basically a Snow Slide/Wings/EA Wings/Monk super leap type ability.

So about 99% sure the answer is yes.

Silverleafeon
03-16-2018, 06:21 PM
Added older spell list, probably have to revise opinions on Swarm/Call Lightning due to huge upgrades.

Maelodic
03-16-2018, 07:05 PM
Really? Okay, that's surprising but it could be...cool.

Does Memory of Flight work in animal forms? I'm picturing a DB druid which flies around in doggo form breathing frost. Because we know wolves with wings (https://www.google.com/search?q=wolf+with+wings&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS764US764&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIns-Y8fHZAhULTd8KHU39AN8QsAQIKA&biw=1920&bih=984) are a thing amirite?

I'll be testing the Dragonborn prospect in the next lamaland release - I'll need to test if Snowslide shares a cooldown with Memory - three dash abilities on top of +30% movespeed would be hilarious fun.

Silverleafeon
03-16-2018, 07:16 PM
I'll be testing the Dragonborn prospect in the next lamaland release - I'll need to test if Snowslide shares a cooldown with Memory - three dash abilities on top of +30% movespeed would be hilarious fun.

I have never seen Snowslide share a cooldown with anything so far.
Have not specifically checked that particular one.

Tilomere
03-16-2018, 10:06 PM
I'm at a loss for bear



I was reading things that the glancing blows are not working properly yet. Maybe next patch.

elvesunited
03-17-2018, 12:17 AM
I was reading things that the glancing blows are not working properly yet. Maybe next patch.

Even if they aren't, the glancing blows ( topping out at 30% ) are supposed to only be active when the Nature Defense Stance is off. That's the current DDO plan for them. For a bear that invested deep into the Nature protector tree that means in order to get 30% glancing blows you need to give up 6 constitition, +3 saves. 20% of your hp, 20 PRR and 29 MRR. That's nuts!!!

edrein
03-17-2018, 01:18 AM
Even if they aren't, the glancing blows ( topping out at 30% ) are supposed to only be active when the Nature Defense Stance is off. That's the current DDO plan for them. For a bear that invested deep into the Nature protector tree that means in order to get 30% glancing blows you need to give up 6 constitition, +3 saves. 20% of your hp, 20 PRR and 29 MRR. That's nuts!!!

That was per my findings and feedback, I don't feel as if that was 100% intentional and might have merely been an oversight. If it was intentional then I don't even know what to say.

Silverleafeon
03-17-2018, 01:21 PM
What about Wizard 1 splash for the +10% AC on a Bear, is it worthwhile?

Xyfiel
03-17-2018, 02:54 PM
What about Wizard 1 splash for the +10% AC on a Bear, is it worthwhile?

Not anymore, they removed the stacking. They said there were, I didn't test it. I have played Monk/Bear/Wiz build three times and with the nerf it won't be worth it again(was already low tier). And to get the new +15% in tier V you have to be raged. Found that out the hard way.

unbongwah
03-17-2018, 03:33 PM
I was reading things that the glancing blows are not working properly yet. Maybe next patch.

Even if they aren't, the glancing blows ( topping out at 30% ) are supposed to only be active when the Nature Defense Stance is off. That's the current DDO plan for them.
IIUC, only Defensive Fighting feat is supposed to disable glancing blows; Nature's Defense doing it is a bug which is what Tilo is referring to. But I guess we'll find out next Lama release if that's true.

What about Wizard 1 splash for the +10% AC on a Bear, is it worthwhile?
Somewhere Torc said that bear AC bonus and Improved Mage Armor AC bonus would be the same type, so no more stacking AC. :( I would guess bear AC stacks with other AC bonuses like Protection domain, Stalwart Defender, etc. but didn't get a chance to test any of that.

Pilgrim1
03-17-2018, 04:07 PM
I'll be testing the Dragonborn prospect in the next lamaland release - I'll need to test if Snowslide shares a cooldown with Memory - three dash abilities on top of +30% movespeed would be hilarious fun.

I ran a dragonborn druid last life, they do not share a cooldown. You can be in any forum.

Maelodic
03-19-2018, 04:38 PM
Tenative build plan - based on what I experienced with the druid:

Geared towards Elite/R1 and Epic Elite/R1 rather than higher reaper levels - that tends to be where my comfort level for soloing is.
(Deep) Gnome 20 Druid (Either are fine, deep gnome is better with +1 heart)

INT / WIS based. Levels in WIS.
Should be able to melee, CC, and backup heal pretty dang well, with some pretty beefy situational damage casting with smart use of Winter Hunt.
If shields continue to work and that's intentional, this build should have some solid defences.
If guardbreaker works with the shield, that'd be fantastic.

Best weapon for this would probably be: http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Savior,_the_Breaker_of_Chains
But you could just just about anything while leveling and light hammer after you get the crit threat increase.

Standard enemy rotation based on enemy formation will be:
(Keep up temp HP)
Applicable CC (BOCW, Howl, Earthquake, Snowslide, dire charge - Favor HoT every 30 seconds for the huge spell crit and pretty nice melee power buff)
Ice Storm (Or sleet storm if you want to go crazy on the CC)
AoE cleaves, cold breath, whatever else suits your fancy.

1 Power (Precision if Shield Mastery working is WAI)
3 Cleave (Shield Mastery if WAI)
6 Great Cleave (Quicken if WAI)
9 Insightful Reflexes
12 IC: Bludgeon
15 Quicken (Improved Shield Mastery if WAI)
18 Heighten
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Burst of Glacial Wrath
27 Spell Focus: Evo
30 Natural Fighting (filler)

26 Perfect TWF
28 Tactician
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Fire (Others might be better)

LD with Pulverizer or Avatar if Tree gets fixed would both be good. Divine Crusader is always good but not a ton of synergy with cold / winter.

Important Twists:
Energy Burst - Cold
Legendary Tactics
Spell Focus: Evo
(Legendary Shield Mastery if WAI)

It'll be important to use Energy Burst during Winter Hunt. If you can, stacking Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold during this period should give a pretty significant single target damage boost. Using Winter Hunt with Lore equipment as well as Scion of Fire should make spell crits pretty tasty, so leveraging that for Ice Storm (while it's viable), energy burst, cold breath, and creeping cold/greater creeping cold should be good.

17 in (Deep) Gnome for Crit Threat / Damage Boosts
41 in Warrior for T5s and Capstone
6 in Protector for PRR/MRR.
12 in Harper for Strategic Combat II / KTA
4 in Herald for Beguile

The AP lines up exactly perfect, the only thing that really hurts is losing out on spell crit and spell power from Herald, but I figure the crit threat from Gnome / Deep Gnome is going to be more impactful than +.5[W] or a max of 6% extra spell crit and 20 spell power.

Silverleafeon
03-19-2018, 10:08 PM
Ice Storm (Or sleet storm if you want to go crazy on the CC)

You definitely want quicken if you are going to use sleet storm.
It is a really good, especially for a class that can also cast FoM.

Maelodic
03-19-2018, 11:17 PM
You definitely want quicken if you are going to use sleet storm.
It is a really good, especially for a class that can also cast FoM.

Quicken is in my feat list. I use it for emergency healing too.

Silverleafeon
03-20-2018, 02:46 AM
Quicken is in my feat list. I use it for emergency healing too.

It looks like a nice build, be interested to hear how it works out.

Tilomere
03-20-2018, 09:23 AM
It'll be important to use Energy Burst during Winter Hunt.

Energy Burst isn't a cold damage spell. It is an ED ability. BoGW is an epic feat, and I think uninterruptible, and has a DC based on epic levels and not spell book level, making it also not a traditional cold damage spell. Do either even work with winter hunt?

Sometimes spell means heroic spell book, sometimes it also means SLAs, sometimes it means all related magical abilities. You might want to double check what Winter Hunt actually works with.

It could be one of those +50% enhancements like shield of condemnation that looks good in description but is completely useless in actual game play.

unbongwah
03-20-2018, 09:40 AM
You definitely want quicken if you are going to use sleet storm.
It is a really good, especially for a class that can also cast FoM.
Particularly if you go all-in on sneak attacks, as Sleet Storm causes no-save blindness. Plus Quickened Sleet Storm is 20 SPs, which is exactly how many you get from Essence of the Shrike / Nature.

Maelodic
03-20-2018, 10:55 AM
Energy Burst isn't a cold damage spell. It is an ED ability. BoGW is an epic feat, and I think uninterruptible, and has a DC based on epic levels and not spell book level, making it also not a traditional cold damage spell. Do either even work with winter hunt?

Sometimes spell means heroic spell book, sometimes it also means SLAs, sometimes it means all related magical abilities. You might want to double check what Winter Hunt actually works with.

It could be one of those +50% enhancements like shield of condemnation that looks good in description but is completely useless in actual game play.

I'll have to test - though I think it's more likely that Winter Hunt just increases cold spell crit and crit damage similar to having a lore item and spell crit damage enhancements.

Tilomere
03-20-2018, 11:23 PM
I'll have to test

Someone else (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494804-Initial-druid-observations?p=6078348&viewfull=1#post6078348) did it for you.


- Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does not modify breath weapons like Dragonborn Cold Breath Weapon or Draconic Incarnation Cold Dragon Breath. If this is WAI please change it to apply to breath weapons as well since it could offer up a fun winter wolf/dragonborn frost breath build to add to the game.

- Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does not modify the Epic Feat Burst of Glacial Wrath

- Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does not modify the Draconic Incarnation cold Energy Burst

- I can confirm that Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does indeed work on the Cold Breath Spell (taking damage up from 200 hp to 400 HP on a crit using a White Dragonborn 20 druid to test without gear); it also seems to be helping damage on the creeping cold SLA

- There appears to be a problem with Wellspring of Power Feat overwriting or being cancelled by Howling Frost/Winterhunt

Maelodic
03-21-2018, 12:06 AM
Someone else (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494804-Initial-druid-observations?p=6078348&viewfull=1#post6078348) did it for you.

Those results are a major bummer. The build still works (and the crit threat is great) but I'll have to reconsider a few things, thanks for the link.

Kantia
03-21-2018, 12:21 AM
I like the idea of a bear with improved Shillelagh using a 3[w] quarterstaff, picking up a couple of levels of rogue for dex to damage (if useful) and 15% extra attack speed with a staff. Not sure if it would work in practice, but I like the idea.

However,
(A) most of the newer staffs are not wood. Especially those with improved crit profiles
(B) Unsure whether the Rogue's attack speed will work in animal form.
(C) Imp Shillelagh doesn't currently do anything. (see https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494841-Bugs-Issues-List?p=6078126&viewfull=1#post6078126)
(D) It's unclear to me whether "doing an extra 1[w] damage" means the [w] goes from [1d6] to [3d6] which would make a +2[w] Great Cleave do 9d6, or whether it stays at [w]=[1d6] and the Shillelagh damage goes on the end of the calculation, meaning a +2[w] Great Cleave would be doing 3d6+2d6. Also unsure how it goes with the crit multipliers. If it actually increases the definition of the [w] then a [2d4] staff would be doing 18d4 per target on a great cleave, which would be nice. If it just tacks another 4d4 damage on the end of whatever [w] calculation is done, then it's only as impactful as a poison. If it increases the multiplier from, say 4[w] to 6[w] then it's somewhere in between I guess.
(E) It'd probably be more useful as a wolf, but I like the idea of a bear anyway. Flavoursome. And more cleaves.

It'd be very nice if we could get a higher level version of something like the Staff of Inner Sight, http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_of_Inner_Sight which allows for WIS, CHA or INT to attack and damage, does [w]=[2d4] damage, and is wooden so it's affected by Shillelagh. But we don't have it, so this whole idea is probably not worth even fleshing out.

Tilomere
03-21-2018, 12:26 AM
I like the idea of a bear with improved Shillelagh using a 3[w] quarterstaff, picking up a couple of levels of rogue for dex to damage (if useful) and 15% extra attack speed with a staff. Not sure if it would work in practice, but I like the idea.


It won't and never did, because the staff attack speed increase is a shorter standing still staff animation sequence.

Kantia
03-21-2018, 12:42 AM
It won't and never did, because the staff attack speed increase is a shorter standing still staff animation sequence.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the quick answer and clarification!

edrein
03-21-2018, 02:50 AM
I like the idea of a bear with improved Shillelagh using a 3[w] quarterstaff, picking up a couple of levels of rogue for dex to damage (if useful) and 15% extra attack speed with a staff. Not sure if it would work in practice, but I like the idea.

(D) It's unclear to me whether "doing an extra 1[w] damage" means the [w] goes from [1d6] to [3d6] which would make a +2[w] Great Cleave do 9d6, or whether it stays at [w]=[1d6] and the Shillelagh damage goes on the end of the calculation, meaning a +2[w] Great Cleave would be doing 3d6+2d6. Also unsure how it goes with the crit multipliers. If it actually increases the definition of the [w] then a [2d4] staff would be doing 18d4 per target on a great cleave, which would be nice. If it just tacks another 4d4 damage on the end of whatever [w] calculation is done, then it's only as impactful as a poison. If it increases the multiplier from, say 4[w] to 6[w] then it's somewhere in between I guess.
(E) It'd probably be more useful as a wolf, but I like the idea of a bear anyway. Flavoursome. And more cleaves.


First of all. The improved Shillelagh is only going to bump that by +2W AKA: The equivalent of running with a Dethek Runestone, however unlike the Dethek Runestone you won't get the 15/adamantine. If you're adamant on running a Shillelagh build as a bear; I suggest running an Ironwood Khopesh or Legendary Cranium Cracker and hoping we might see more wooden one handers soon. Combine Shillelagh and Dethek Runestone and a wooden one hander wins with +3W opposed to the +2W a two hander will get.

D. It's not going to affect cleaves in the ways you postulate. It'll be like any other class using a cleave.
E. Bears currently don't have a cleave 'feat tax' like Paladins got. While a few of their spells were applying AoE damage on Lamannia last preview, I'd consider and hold all of those spells as Non-WAI until stated otherwise by the devs.

Silverleafeon
03-21-2018, 03:13 AM
Hmm...at one-time Shillelagh did not care what material a staff was made of, guess they fixed it?

Could be wise to test out any new metal staff just in case.

CitW weapons tend to has strange classification as exceptions, so I would not use those as proof of the pudding.

Tilomere
03-21-2018, 03:06 PM
[INDENT]No combat style specific bonuses will function while in animal forms aside from Natural Fighting, and any bonuses native to the form (no dual wielding, shield bashes or single weapon attack speed).



I don't think these are combat style bonuses, or they wouldn't function and stack with normal TWF feats which are combat style bonuses?

Edit: Ahh, nvm.

unbongwah
03-22-2018, 09:53 AM
I like the idea of a bear with improved Shillelagh using a 3[w] quarterstaff, picking up a couple of levels of rogue for dex to damage (if useful) and 15% extra attack speed with a staff.
The DEX to-hit and dmg will carry over to animal forms; the +15% attack speed will not. Quick Strike doesn't work in animal forms either. Which really put the kibosh on my staff / wolf build ideas. :(

(A) most of the newer staffs are not wood. Especially those with improved crit profiles
Also true which makes Shillelagh less useful. I toyed with wolf ideas using Cranium Cracker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Cranium_Cracker), but it's not that great of a weapon anymore.

(D) It's unclear to me whether "doing an extra 1[w] damage" means the [w] goes from [1d6] to [3d6] which would make a +2[w] Great Cleave do 9d6, or whether it stays at [w]=[1d6] and the Shillelagh damage goes on the end of the calculation, meaning a +2[w] Great Cleave would be doing 3d6+2d6.
The latter: +[W] bonuses always apply outside the "[W]".

I don't think these are combat style bonuses, or they wouldn't function and stack with normal TWF feats which are combat style bonuses?
You're splitting hairs again. It's clear the intent is that offhand procs no longer work in animal forms. Doesn't matter what the source actually is. Trying to rules-lawyer about what "should" be allowed because certain things aren't labeled "Combat Style bonus" is beside the point.

Now, do I trust the devs to fix every animal-form bug they've identified without introducing new bugs? Umm. Magic 8-Ball says "outlook cloudy." But let's at least start from how things are supposed to work before we figure out all the exploits (http://shawntionary.com/chainmailbikini/?p=37).

Tilomere
03-22-2018, 11:56 AM
You're splitting hairs again. It's clear the intent is that offhand procs no longer work in animal forms. Doesn't matter what the source actually is. Trying to rules-lawyer about what "should" be allowed because certain things aren't labeled "Combat Style bonus" is beside the point.




You say I'm rules lawyering or splitting hairs, but actually finding out and keeping track of what does or does not work in animal or AoN form is a nightmare, not a search for exploits.

edrein
03-22-2018, 12:05 PM
Also true which makes Shillelagh less useful. I toyed with wolf ideas using Cranium Cracker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Cranium_Cracker), but it's not that great of a weapon anymore.

Actually, it's not a -great- weapon under normal circumstances. However; in the hands of an Improved Shillelagh druid who's also got a Dethek Runestone sitting around? That +3W is pretty attractive. Just to give a quick break down of why it's arguably the best wooden weapon (until we see another one) is the following. We'll use the non-existant Night Mother Club for comparision (as the club is caster based not combat based).

Nightmother's (Each weapon type except club): One Handed: 5[W+2], +15 Enhancement Bonus, Human Bane 9d10, Evil 9d6, Chilling 9d6, Vampirism 4d2, Orange Augment Slot
Can be increased to 7W due to Dethek Runestone.

Epic Cranium Cracker: 5[1d6] + 7. +7 Enhancement Bonus, Greater Elemental Bane, Vampirism, Hardened Spikes 4d6 piercing, Improved Destruction, Purple Augment Slot, and Mythic Bonus option.
Can be boosted by Improved Shillelagh for +1W for a total of +6W
Can be boosted by Dethek Runestone for +2W for a total of +7W
Total Potential Boost to +8W.
Possess both increased crit threat and multiplier. 19-20 and x3 respectively.
Additionally can be boosted further by Pulverizer threat range if running Legendary Dreadnaught. 18-20 threat range before improved critical.
Can now be used for Lightning Mace if running Legendary Dreadnaught. Lightning Mace: Active Ability: (Cooldown 12 seconds) Melee Attack On Hit 100 Electrical damage. On Critical Gain +15% enhancement bonus to melee doublestrike for 6 seconds. On Vorpal Target takes 10d100 Electrical damage.



Additional side note. Save a vistani dagger and dethek runestone combination, this is the highest potential one handed damage a druid can have. With the upside of not costing nearly as much AP.

Tilomere
03-22-2018, 12:47 PM
Epic Cranium Cracker: 5[1d6] + 7


Additional side note. Save a vistani dagger and dethek runestone combination, this is the highest potential one handed damage a druid can have.

Why not 41 AP VKF core 6 T4 for 40 melee power, and 31 AP kensai T5 for 40 more melee power, 8 AP KTA out of animal form. With 3 fighter feats spent on melee power, will end up at 86 melee power.

VKF (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vistani_Knife_Fighter_enhancements)single dagger shouldn't work in animal form. It specifically states it requires single weapon style:
Single Dagger: When fighting single weapon style with a dagger: +20 Melee Power

VKF double daggers is specifically worded differently to indicate it doesn't require a fighting style.
Double Daggers: When fighting with a dagger in each hand: +20% stacking chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding weapons.


But if your focus is just on melee DPS, you're either gonna multiclass or use Vistani tree (or both).



See, it's a nightmare. Even you are saying to use vistani, which is clearly exploiting when using single dagger. It's not just me that could use clarification.

edrein
03-22-2018, 01:20 PM
Why not 41 AP VKF core 6 T4 for 40 melee power, and 31 AP kensai T5 for 40 more melee power, 8 AP KTA out of animal form. With 3 fighter feats spent on melee power, will end up at 86 melee power.

VKF (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vistani_Knife_Fighter_enhancements)single dagger shouldn't work in animal form. It specifically states it requires single weapon style:
Single Dagger: When fighting single weapon style with a dagger: +20 Melee Power

VKF double daggers is specifically worded differently to indicate it doesn't require a fighting style.
Double Daggers: When fighting with a dagger in each hand: +20% stacking chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding weapons.



See, it's a nightmare. Even you are saying to use vistani, which is exploiting when using single dagger. It's not just me that could use clarification.

Actually, you're wrong. Single Dagger does work temporarily in animal form. Really they need to rework that ability in general. As it currently works with Runearms on live, yet doesn't work with any other offhand item. It needs to be a clear-cut all or nothing, or any offhand deal.

And it doesn't require SWF to work at all. It merely requires you to wield a dagger in your main hand, the same as Double Dagger requires two daggers.
Edit: I reread it. -If- the implication is SWF then orbs should work with this ability. However they don't.

And I suggested the use of Vistani for Deadly Blades, AKA: +1W to daggers.

Tilomere
03-22-2018, 01:32 PM
Ya I haven't tested the tree out. Just got RL a week ago.

Is the dagger down animation faster? Imma make a swashy next life and test it out.


Actually, you're wrong. Single Dagger does work temporarily in animal form.

According to how it is worded, double daggers could be seen to work in animal form, but single dagger definitely should not work in animal form. I guess just wait till a few months after it hits live and find out what works then.

edrein
03-22-2018, 01:48 PM
Ya I haven't tested the tree out. Just got RL a week ago.

Is the dagger down animation faster? Imma make a swashy next life and test it out.



According to how it is worded, double daggers could be seen to work in animal form, but single dagger definitely should not work in animal form. I guess just wait till a few months after it hits live and find out what works then.

I posted the results of that in my bug thread. It indeed does work with animal forms. Although 20% is rather paltry. Single Dagger breaks if you item swap for whatever reason (even to another dagger) while wildshaped. And I'm definitely against not allowing Single Dagger to work with animals. Right now it's the only potential thing making one handed weapons look viable for animal forms. If they fix it to work with all offhand items then druids are in a better spot as a whole (as shields are not as punitive with the combat style changes).

If they don't then I don't see any reason to use any offhand unless you're running Double Daggers. You'd be better off slapping on something like Stout Oak Walking Stick and using the +2W shillelagh or frankly any other two handed build for 1.5x stat to damage.

unbongwah
03-23-2018, 10:43 AM
Dusting off an old flavor build: DEX-based TWF druid updated for Vistani.

Race: any, though the DEX races make most sense. I'll be using SDK but for Gamer Geoff (http://www.gamergeoff.com/author/geoffhanna/) use halfling. :cool:
Class: druid 17 / rogue or monk 3


druid 17 is for lvl 9 spells + both elemental forms. This is not a caster-DPS build, though, so spells will mostly be for buffs & heals. As such, it's intended to run in fire-elemental form for the Positive Spellpower bonus, though water elemental will be an option too.
rogue or monk 3 is necessary for DEX to-hit & dmg with daggers. Obviously rogue gets you trap skills while monk gets you extra feats plus all the pros & cons of playing a centered toon these days. I'll be using the rogue option in this build.
druid 18 / rgr 2 would also work but you don't get free Evasion that way and I'm not spending enough APs in the druid trees to get any of the lvl 18 cores. Maybe I'll save that for an extra-flavorful version which also goes for Manyshot. :p

Stats (36pt SDK): DEX 20 (+lvl-ups) / CON 16 / INT 16
Feats: TWF/ITWF/GTWF, Precision, IC:Pierce+OC, Quicken, Emp Heal, Epic DR, PTWF - remaining feats season to taste
Enhancements: 41 Vistani / 6-8 Harper / 9 Assassin or Ninja / 6 Nature's Protector / 8 NW / 4 SH / 4-6 <filler>


Vistani is primary tree for melee DPS. DEX to-hit and damage comes from 1st two cores of either Assassin or Ninja plus Melee Power Boost. Harper for Know the Angles. NP for defensive stance (+20 PRR/MRR). NW 1st two cores for extra 10% fort bypass and Prey on the Weak for +15% helpless damage. Season's Herald for Beguile plus the Positive Energy bonus in fire elemental form.

Epic Destiny: any of the usual melee options, although Primal Avatar is getting a nice boost to Melee Power (24 -> 60), so for max flavor I would say stick with that.

edrein
03-23-2018, 11:09 AM
Dusting off an old flavor build: DEX-based TWF druid updated for Vistani.

rogue or monk 3 is necessary for DEX to-hit & dmg with daggers. Obviously rogue gets you trap skills while monk gets you extra feats plus all the pros & cons of playing a centered toon these days. I'll be using the rogue option in this build.



Monk is your best option DPS wise. Fire stance for the extra multiplier and twist A Dance of Flowers for an additional 1.5W. Being centered provides the highest dagger DPS.

Maelodic
03-28-2018, 11:30 AM
Can confirm that Winter Hunt now works with BOGW and Energy Burst.

No gear-
BOGW
200-300 damage normal, very rare crit for ~500
Under winter hunt same damage, but far more frequent crits for ~700-800

Energy Burst:
2-3k damage normal - couldn't get any crits to pop
2-3k damage normal - many crits for 5-7k

With some cold spellpower investment you could do the situational nuke thing. With patched together (ie, little thought into it) ravenloft gear and no augments, energy burst was critting over 10k under winter hunt and crit often. Cold Breath was critting for around ~1100 - the only use I found for it at epic levels was stacking arcane warrior but Dire Charge would be a whole lot better.

It makes the most sense to invest in Evocation as a hybrid druid over enchantment even though howl of terror is both good and enchantment. Due to my limited testing abilities at the moment I can't test if it's subject to spell resistance, but I'm sure it is. Given that Earthquake DC is a lot easier to obtain and Howl of Terror would be quite an investment for one spell, it's probably wise just to use it before stacking creeping cold/greater creeping cold and energy burst for maximum efficiency.

As a side note, using snowslide more has made it my favorite movement ability by far.

Dragonborn cold breath flat out doesn't work. Doesn't do damage. So I can't test the relentless breath idea from before.

Currently, I'm looking at my previous gnome build - TRing my monkey into a deep gnome puppy beforehand because I won't need to pay for the +1 heart. Just need to finalize it before pulling the trigger on that TR.

I had considered switching out the cleaves for natural fighting but everything natural fighting gives are not unique stats - you can find them somwehere else. All other combat feats give something that is either difficult or impossible to find elsewhere. You can't replace cleaves. I'm not sure even with the doublestrike the feats are worth it for a hybrid who will be spamming cleaves and using spells. I'd grab them on a rage bear, or a a pure melee wolf though. Probably.

Silverleafeon
03-29-2018, 09:40 PM
Race ~ any possibly one with self-heals

Stats ~ push Int, good Con, some Wis, some Cha

Class Order?

Wizard 12 -> Arch Mage tier 5/core 12
Favored Soul 4 -> +8 force crit chance
Druid 4 -> +8 force crit chance


Heroic Feats ~

Maximize
Empower
Enlarge
Quicken
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Heighten / Skill Focus (Spellcraft)


Epic Feats ~

21) Well Spring of Power
24) Master of Knowledge
26ED) Epic Spellpower (Force)
27) Ruin
28ED) Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft) / Hellball
29ED) Arcane Pulse
30) Great Ruin
30L) Scion of the Plane of Fire



Epic Destiny Shirdai?




Enhancements

Season's Herald Tree --> 22 points for tier four Wax and Wane
Angel of Vengeance Tree --> 24 points for tier four Smiting & Intense Faith
Archmage Tree --> 34 points for Arcane Blast & Arcane Supremacy

unbongwah
03-30-2018, 09:32 AM
Couple of ideas for specific alts of mine. First, WIS-based melee wolf / caster hybrid:

Druid 20
True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight




Stats
34pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 14 +2 4: WIS
Dexterity 10 +3 8: WIS
Constitution 16 +2 12: WIS
Intelligence 8 +2 16: WIS
Wisdom 18 +2 20: WIS
Charisma 8 +2 24: WIS
28: WIS


Feats


1 : Quicken Spell
1 PDK : Maximize Spell
3 : Precision
6 : Martial Weapon: Falchion
9 : Empower Spell
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing
15 : Heighten Spell OR Empower Healing Spell
18 : Spell Focus: Evocation
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Burst of Glacial Wrath
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Mass Frog
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Intensify Spell OR Empower Healing Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Fire


2 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
5 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Bear
8 Druid : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
11 Druid : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear
13 Druid : Wild Shape 3: Water Elemental
17 Druid : Wild Shape 3: Fire Elemental
Listed tomes are what I think are on this particular alt. PDK just for the extra feat and to start at level 15. Specced to use falchions, obviously.

Enhancements: 41 NW / 31 SH (Storm of Vengeance SLA) / 6 NP (defensive stance) / 1 PDK (Melee Power Boost) with 1 AP filler.

Next: HO STR build

HO Wolf
Druid 20
True Neutral Half-Orc




Stats
28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 20 20 20 20 +2 4: STR
Dexterity 8 8 8 8 +2 8: STR
Constitution 14 16 15 16 +2 12: STR
Intelligence 12 12 14 14 +2 16: STR
Wisdom 8 8 8 8 +2 20: STR
Charisma 6 6 6 6 +2 24: STR
28: STR


Feats


1 : Power Attack
3 : Cleave
6 : Martial Weapon: Falchion
9 : Quicken Spell
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing
15 : Great Cleave
18 : Natural Fighting
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Natural Fighting
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Natural Fighting
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Water


2 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
5 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Bear
8 Druid : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
11 Druid : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear
13 Druid : Wild Shape 3: Water Elemental
17 Druid : Wild Shape 3: Fire Elemental
Again specced for falchions, though I'd actually use SOS for heroics - yay, 10th anniversary party gift! Did anyone test if Orcish Rage by itself triggers Rage of the Beast bonuses?


Enhancements: 41 NW / 18 HO (Brutality) / 13 NP / 8 Harper

elvesunited
03-30-2018, 10:32 AM
Couple of ideas for specific alts of mine. Next: HO STR build

HO Wolf
Druid 20
True Neutral Half-Orc




Stats
28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 20 20 20 20 +2 4: STR
Dexterity 8 8 8 8 +2 8: STR
Constitution 14 16 15 16 +2 12: STR
Intelligence 12 12 14 14 +2 16: STR
Wisdom 8 8 8 8 +2 20: STR
Charisma 6 6 6 6 +2 24: STR
28: STR


Feats


1 : Power Attack
3 : Cleave
6 : Martial Weapon: Falchion
9 : Quicken Spell
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing
15 : Great Cleave
18 : Natural Fighting
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Natural Fighting
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Natural Fighting
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Water


2 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
5 Druid : Wild Shape 1: Bear
8 Druid : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
11 Druid : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear
13 Druid : Wild Shape 3: Water Elemental
17 Druid : Wild Shape 3: Fire Elemental
Again specced for falchions, though I'd actually use SOS for heroics - yay, 10th anniversary party gift! Did anyone test if Orcish Rage by itself triggers Rage of the Beast bonuses?


Enhancements: 41 NW / 18 HO (Brutality) / 13 NP / 8 Harper

Similar what I came up with.

Enhancements: 41 NW / 20 HO (Brutality / Raging Crush ) / 11 NP / 8 Harper
I also took Natural fighting instead of cleave and great cleave feats.
( I am curious why you are taking intelligence and dumping wisdom )

1) Currently all NW attacks ( alpha strike, throat strike, go for kill, and ghost pack ) all strike multiple targets. Not sure if this is WAI for two of them.

2) while the spell point cost right now is double the description for NW attacks ( and prohibitive for a melee attack clicky ) I don't think that is WAI. If spell point cost is fixed to match description then they fall into sustainable DPS territory.

3) combined with cheap to cast wolf innate spells ( takedown and baiting bite ) and the half-orc crushing blow the hot bar is going get pretty full.

4) And at +1 Tactics, +4 double strike, +4 PRR, +4 melee power the Natural Fighting feats are no longer so easy to ignore.

Maelodic
03-30-2018, 11:34 AM
Couple of ideas for specific alts of mine. First, WIS-based melee wolf / caster hybrid:

Druid 20
True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight

You take Falcion proficiency- why not go half elf with Fighter dilly for the effective same amount of feats and then opens you up to weapons like SoS and Carnifex while leveling- and then gives you freedom to use whatever weapon you want at endgame? I know you lose out on the damage boost but IMO it's worth it.


Enhancements: 41 NW / 31 SH (Storm of Vengeance SLA) / 6 NP (defensive stance)

I've considered this split - do you think the storm/SLAs will make up for losing the Cleave line?

unbongwah
03-30-2018, 11:49 AM
I also took Natural fighting instead of cleave and great cleave feats.
I went with both since I don't really need metamagics besides Quicken and the latest patch slightly ungimps NF by adding +4% doublestrike back into them. I thought about Stunning Blow but was concerned I couldn't get DCs high enough on pure druid even with max STR+KtA.

( I am curious why you are taking intelligence and dumping wisdom )
Extra skill pts + Know the Angles which IIUC will now carry over to wolf form. So WIS becomes a dump stat since I only need it to meet caster pre-req.

You take Falcion proficiency- why not go half elf with Fighter dilly for the effective same amount of feats and then opens you up to weapons like SoS and Carnifex while leveling- and then gives you freedom to use whatever weapon you want at endgame? I know you lose out on the damage boost but IMO it's worth it.
Because the alt in question is already HO w/HoW +20 and I don't want to TR. :p Also I have a heroic SOS and Cleaver on this toon; so level with SOS then feat-swap @ 22 to switch to Cleaver. I don't need the added versatility of HE ftr dilly when my leveling weapons are already decided.

I also want to see if Brutality stacks with Balanced Attacks. But even if it doesn't and I don't use Rage, there's still a big net DPS gain from +4 racial STR (+2 mod -> +3 dmg), +8 damage from Orcish Weapon Training, and +6 damage from HO Improved Power Attack.

I've considered this split - do you think the storm/SLAs will make up for losing the Cleave line?
It's basically what my pure wolf druid build is currently like, only the TWF exploit is going away so I replace it with a falchion. [Unless I decide to use an orb for caster bonuses in which case...err scimitar I guess? Or khopesh?] Is it the best DPS option? Probably not, but I don't care.

Maelodic
03-30-2018, 11:55 AM
Concept - just getting the idea out

Improved Feint
12 Rogue/8 Druid
Dex Based
Points in hide

1 Power Attack
1h Cleave
3 Great Cleave
6 Precision
9 Quicken
12 IC: Slash
15 Natural Fighting
18 Natural Fighting
21 Improved Sneak Attack
24 Overwhelming Crit
27 Epic Damage Reduction
30 Natural Fighting

Rogue: Opportunist (Or improved evasion)

26 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
28 Elusive Target
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Etheral

Wolf T5s for your bajillion cleaves (+Fort bypass). Assassin T4 for killer (or vistani T4 for crit profile and vistani goodies). Nature defensive stance. Some slush left over.

Gather everything up. Quicken sleet storm for no save blind. Pop defensive cooldown. Cleave like crazy for tons of sneak attack.

Could also go 10 Rogue/8 Druid/2 Bard and trade 4 sneak attack dice for an extra cleave (en point).

Would need to use either QStaves or daggers.

unbongwah
03-30-2018, 11:58 AM
No Improved Feint? You're the one who keeps singing the praises for Imp Feint. :cool: EDIT: no wait I'm thinking of Saekee nm. :o

If you're going for tier-5 NW with that split, then you need Vistani if you want crit bonuses to your weapons.

Staves seem suboptimal: the attack speed and Quick Strike bonuses don't work in wolf form; and you need tier-5 Acrobat (or Henshin) for Staff Spec if you want +1 crit range & multiplier (meaning no Alpha Strike etc). Wood staves would benefit from (Improved) Shillelagh, of course, but it seems like all the best staves are non-wooden. :(

Maelodic
03-30-2018, 12:06 PM
No Improved Feint? You're the one who keeps singing the praises for Imp Feint. :cool:

Keeps? Implying I've ever liked it before? =P


If you're going for tier-5 NW with that split, then you need Vistani if you want crit bonuses to your weapons.

Staves seem suboptimal: the attack speed and Quick Strike bonuses don't work in wolf form; and you need tier-5 Acrobat (or Henshin) for Staff Spec if you want +1 crit range & multiplier (meaning no Alpha Strike etc). Wood staves would benefit from (Improved) Shillelagh, of course, but it seems like all the best staves are non-wooden. :(

I think Vistani is probably a better fit than anything else - nothing in the Rogue trees can really make up for what Vistani T4 offers.

If you didn't catch the edit, I called out Vistani

edrein
03-30-2018, 12:21 PM
Concept - just getting the idea out

Improved Feint
12 Rogue/8 Druid
Dex Based
Points in hide

1 Power Attack
1h Cleave
3 Great Cleave
6 Precision
9 Quicken
12 IC: Slash
15 Natural Fighting
18 Natural Fighting
21 Improved Sneak Attack
24 Overwhelming Crit
27 Epic Damage Reduction
30 Natural Fighting

Rogue: Opportunist (Or improved evasion)

26 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
28 Elusive Target
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Etheral

Wolf T5s for your bajillion cleaves (+Fort bypass). Assassin T4 for killer (or vistani T4 for crit profile and vistani goodies). Nature defensive stance. Some slush left over.

Gather everything up. Quicken sleet storm for no save blind. Pop defensive cooldown. Cleave like crazy for tons of sneak attack.

Could also go 10 Rogue/8 Druid/2 Bard and trade 4 sneak attack dice for an extra cleave (en point).

Would need to use either QStaves or daggers.

From a single target perspective, wouldn't it be better to take T5 assassin and cheese via Measure the Foes melee power? Although all of the cleaves does make this sound appealing.

Maelodic
03-30-2018, 12:26 PM
It's basically what my pure wolf druid build is currently like, only the TWF exploit is going away so I replace it with a falchion. [Unless I decide to use an orb for caster bonuses in which case...err scimitar I guess? Or khopesh?] Is it the best DPS option? Probably not, but I don't care.

I'll probably try this instead of my more cleave heavy route - GCC and CC with max+emp+winter hunt will probably hit pretty dang hard and I like dots on bosses. Using wolf as essentially a beefy SLA is probably what I'm looking for, and I can always LR or ETR into my cleave heavy route if I go for Gnome and use scimmies, hammers, or whatever else.

Does it "work" on your current wolf? Can you solo EE with it?

Maelodic
03-30-2018, 12:33 PM
From a single target perspective, wouldn't it be better to take T5 assassin and cheese via Measure the Foes melee power? Although all of the cleaves does make this sound appealing.

Not really. Go For the Kill is 15-30 MP which is nothing to laugh at, on top of having huge crit threat when you do use it. It also has 100% uptime- the most measure the foe will have over Go for the kill is 15 MP (if you stay in the lower range using go), and the majority of the time it'll lose out.

Throat rip also adds a ton of sneak attack damage to blinded mobs so any kind of HP sack that you can sneak attack, using throat rip consistently is going to shred it.

unbongwah
03-30-2018, 12:55 PM
Does it "work" on your current wolf? Can you solo EE with it?
No, but that's because it's a first-lifer with crummy gear. :p It handles regular EE mobs okay but then a champ shows up and it's like OH WELL.

It's sitting at lvl 20 so current plan is to HTR into PDK before U38 comes out so I can claim that free HoW +3 to get rid of the ftr lvl post-U38. ;)

Maelodic
03-30-2018, 01:17 PM
No, but that's because it's a first-lifer with crummy gear. :p It handles regular EE mobs okay but then a champ shows up and it's like OH WELL.

It's sitting at lvl 20 so current plan is to HTR into PDK before U38 comes out so I can claim that free HoW +3 to get rid of the ftr lvl post-U38. ;)

Well, if it's a first lifer with crummy gear and it handles regular EE mobs okay, I'm assuming a decently geared post-pass gimp druid would probably work for EEs just fine.

I think I'll pull the trigger on my HTR for the +3 HoW and get into deep gnome because leveling up to 15 is so last week.

If I hate it I'll just ETR into the other hybrid I made.

unbongwah
04-03-2018, 10:55 AM
I've been mulling how some of the classic wolf builds will fare post-U38 and I suspect the Woodchipper (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454134-The-WoodChipper-Drunker-(druid-fighter-monk-melee)-Build-v2-0) will hold up better than most. SWF will no longer work in wolf form so you'll want to switch to a 2H weapon (e.g., greataxe, falchion). And you no longer need druid 9 for Natural Fighting feats, so perhaps druid 8 / monk 6 / ftr 6 is a better split. But since it was always intended to be a centered toon, the weapon bonuses carrying over to animal form improves it in that regard. And now that alternate stats will apply to damage, that opens new possibilities: e.g., DEX-based using Ninja cores, INT-based via Harper, CON-based dwarf (TYWA).

BTW did anyone test how Whirlwind Attack works with the revised animal forms?

Tilomere
04-03-2018, 05:20 PM
Here's an old classic for a new day. This is going to be my update 38 build. It is going to be a tanky, self-healing, trapping, CC, AoE dps annihilator.

Electric Gibzilla (Critzilla for Update 38)

Any race, max + levels wisdom, high int, true neutral

1 Arti Maximize
2 Arti
3 Arti Completionist
4 Arti Empower
5 Arti
6 Arti PL:Wiz
7 Arti
8 Arti Quicken
9 Arti Spell Pen
10 Cleric (Free feat: heavy armor)
11 Cleric Magic Domain (+Evo/+USP)
12 Cleric Spell Pen #2
13 Druid
14 Druid bear form
15 Druid Evo Focus
16 Arti
17 Arti
18 Arti Evo Focus #2 Heighten
19 Arti if going into epics
20 Reincarnate (Arti if going into epics)

Sword 'n board tanky caster build.

level 12:
39 AP AT > T5 C3 at level 12, (Motesx3, evox3)
9 AP Divine Disciple (1% crit, 2 spell pen

Level 15:
39 AP AT > T5 C3 at level 12, (Motes, evox3)
8 AP SH (4% crit, +1 caster level, winter is coming)
12 AP NW Prey on Weak (15% helpless dmg)
1 AP NP

Level 16: 8 AP SH reset becomes 11 AP DD +3 Spell Pen

Level 17-19: AP as you see fit (SH or NP)

(Math edited out, you don't want to know what this hits for!)

21 Spell Pen #3
24 Master of Artifice
26 Lightning SP
27 BoGW
28 ?
29 ?
30 Scion of Air, Intensify or Master of Air

Twist +3 lightning caster levels, spell pen to Sense weakness or EB (Non-lightning), evo focus draconic, cocoon into evo line in magistar

The 14 arti caster levels combines with +1 from druid and +5 from magistar to cast at level 20, max level 20 caster level with master of artifice.
Evo line in magistar and +3 caster levels/max caster levels twisted in from draconic will give level 26 total caster levels/max caster levels on lightning spells and slas.

Stunning first with soundburst will double damage in epics.

edrein
04-03-2018, 06:52 PM
-snip-

Don't use an runearm or you're in for a bad time.

Tilomere
04-03-2018, 06:57 PM
Don't use an runearm or you're in for a bad time.

Heh, who uses a runearm on an arti? That's just being silly. ;)

Runearms are for monks (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492495-The-Supreme-Monkter).

Or at least they were. They did some beastly damage with all the monk melee power scaling the imbue at 200%. 400 melee power was 800% scaling. Heh.

It was not meant to be chérie.

unbongwah
04-05-2018, 09:32 AM
Here's one just for the lulz: a freezing bearchanter. :cool:

Race: PDK
Class: bard 16 / druid 3 / FvS 1
Stats: CHA 18 (+lvl-ups) / CON 18 / STR 10 / DEX 10 w/ +3 Supreme tome
Feats: Power Atk / CL / GC; Precision; Quicken; SF:Enchant; IC:Slash; Natural Fighting x3; OC; Epic DR
Enhancements: 40-ish WC (tier-5s) / 13 NP (Ursa Protector) / 12 NW (Prey on the Weak) / 4 WS (Div Presence) / 3 PDK (CKT)

Gameplay: freeze enemies with Spinning Ice; follow up with CL+GC; toss out the occasional disco ball; rinse, repeat. +15% damage vs helpless from PotW; +25% HPs from Ursa's Protector.

Drawbacks: requires LR +1; no crit bonuses apart from Howl of the North; stuck with greatswords which are mediocre apart from eSOS.

EDIT: would obviously work in wolf form too; effectively trading +25% HPs from Ursa's Protector and glancing blows from bear form for +20% attack speed from base wolf form.

Maelodic
04-05-2018, 01:44 PM
BTW did anyone test how Whirlwind Attack works with the revised animal forms?

It does on wolf, same animation as Alpha Strike.

unbongwah
04-05-2018, 01:46 PM
It does on wolf, same animation as Alpha Strike.
What I meant was: it is worthwhile like for unarmed builds; or is it hot garbage like for weapon builds? :p

Tilomere
04-05-2018, 05:10 PM
del

Maelodic
04-10-2018, 07:35 PM
Here's the two wolf builds that currently dominate my thinking, I'll be running the first on my freshly reincarnated monk:

Hybrid - Light Hammers + Epic casting
Deep Gnome INT/WIS (WIS levels)
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
6 Great Cleave
9 Insightful Reflexes
12 IC: Bludgeon
15 Quicken
18 Heighten
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Burst of Glacial Wrath
27 Spell Focus: Evo
30 Natural Fighting (filler)

26 Perfect TWF
28 Tactician
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Fire (Others might be better)

Important Twists:
Energy Burst - Cold
Legendary Tactics
Spell Focus: Evo

17 in (Deep) Gnome for Crit Threat / Damage Boosts / INT (WIS)
41 in Warrior for T5s and Capstone
6 in Protector for PRR/MRR.
12 in Harper for Strategic Combat II / KTA
4 in Herald for Beguile

Howl of winter works for energy burst and BOGW. Things go boom even with modest investment

----

Full Melee in heavy armor
Half Elf or Human (any race works, natural fighting feats can be moved around for weapon proficiencies)
STR / WIS - Levels in STR
1 Power Attack
1 Weapon Proficiency or Dilly: Fighter
3 Cleave
6 Great Cleave
9 Quicken
12 IC: Slashing
15 Precision
18 Natural Fighting
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Natural Fighting
27 Natural Fighting
30 Blinding Speed / PRR (filler)

26 Perfect TWF
28 Tactician
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Fire

41 in Warrior for T5 cleaves and Capstone
24 in Protector for spells while raged, immunity to energy drain
Whatever else you want. More points in protector is good, racials are often awesome.
2 racial points and you can still do 41 NW, 24 NP, 17 Gnome/Deep Gnome for crit threat, but you lose out on two handed weapons.

CPDK9
04-14-2018, 04:38 PM
Looking for some advice on where to go with my PDK wolf currently at cap and can Iconic TR. I'd like to stay PDK cause it's a BIG WOLF. Thoughts on 18 druid / 2 fgt split - sort of pure but splashed fgt for extra feats. Do bastard swords produce glancing blows in animal form? Thoughts on majority of points between nature warrior for all the wolf stuff and protector for raging and undying beast? Or should I ignore rage stuff and boost spells by spending in Season's herald?

elvesunited
04-15-2018, 10:32 AM
Looking for some advice on where to go with my PDK wolf currently at cap and can Iconic TR. I'd like to stay PDK cause it's a BIG WOLF. Thoughts on 18 druid / 2 fgt split - sort of pure but splashed fgt for extra feats. Do bastard swords produce glancing blows in animal form? Thoughts on majority of points between nature warrior for all the wolf stuff and protector for raging and undying beast? Or should I ignore rage stuff and boost spells by spending in Season's herald?

Bastard swords do not provide glancing blows in animal form.

Currently my PDK wolf is:

16 Druid 4 Fighter 1 Barbarian
41 Vistani 16 Stalwart 23 Nature Warrior

I haven't reincarnated yet as I'm thinking we might get a "fix" this week or next week as i think they released the druid changes before they were ready. I don't want to commit to a build and have the rug pulled from under me. But I did experiment with the enhancements. ( it's only gold )

Stalwart provides +6 strength +3 weapon enhancement 16 hp 25 PRR/MRR. And unless they fix it/change minds i'd suggest weapon Item Defense as weapon damage is proving quite the problem for the wolf. ( It's almost as if weapons in wolf form have a hardness of 0 )

Barbarian provides +10% movement and before the update I was getting improved power attack through ravager. I probably won't keep it when I reincarnate.

The tier 5 Nature Warrior stuff wasn't impressive enough so i went with Tier 5 Vistani.

Right now even though my feats are horribly horked up the wolf is doing better DPS than it was before. ( and that's with a dagger )

Dodge ( no longer needed as pre-req )
Two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, Greater Two weapon fighting ( no longer works )
Shield mastery, improved shield master ( no longer works through legendary shield mastery does )
Improved critical Bludgeon ( need slashing now )
Nature fighting x3 ( one taken at level 24 )
Power attack
Overwhelming Critical
Quicken

I'm thinking replacing with

Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Prof, Weapon Spec

and i still may take Shield mastery and improved shield mastery in epics just to twist Legendary shield Mastery.

--------------------------------------------------

An odder combination that i think will still get you the "big wolf"

Deep Gnome ( int maxed )
1 Wizard 17 druid 2 Fighter
38 harper 24 Nature Warrior 6 nature protector. 11 kensei 1 eldritch knight

Harper can get you know the angles which will give you the best innate animal spell DC possible and a significant damage boost. Tier 5 of harper gets you deception with any weapon. So you can go with the biggest two-handed weapon you can think of and still get your sneak attacks. And of course int for damage and int for to hit.

unbongwah
04-15-2018, 10:59 AM
Do bastard swords produce glancing blows in animal form?
Bear form naturally produces glancing blows; it doesn't matter which melee weapon you have equipped. Wolf form gets no glancing blows; it's all about the attack speed boost with them.

Thoughts on majority of points between nature warrior for all the wolf stuff and protector for raging and undying beast? Or should I ignore rage stuff and boost spells by spending in Season's herald?
For pure druids, I'm split between doing what's in this post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494863-Scratch-Pad-for-Build-fu?p=6083399&viewfull=1#post6083399): (A) all-in on melee, i.e., STR-based, everything spent on Nature's Warrior / Protector, possibly racial and/or Harper too; or (B) splitting my focus between melee (NW/NP) and caster (SH) for a hybrid.

However my ideas from Lama preview were from before SSG added Beast Awakened ("You can now cast druidic magic while raging.") to the NP tree. So now I'm on the fence again. Or rather, the STR wolf build seems obvious: something like 41 NW / 22-26 NP / rest into Harper or wherever. [For bear build just reverse APs on NW / NP.] The WIS/STR hybrid build becomes more complicated.

Saekee
04-15-2018, 11:39 AM
Concept - just getting the idea out

Improved Feint
12 Rogue/8 Druid
Dex Based
Points in hide

1 Power Attack
1h Cleave
3 Great Cleave
6 Precision
9 Quicken
12 IC: Slash
15 Natural Fighting
18 Natural Fighting
21 Improved Sneak Attack
24 Overwhelming Crit
27 Epic Damage Reduction
30 Natural Fighting

Rogue: Opportunist (Or improved evasion)

26 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
28 Elusive Target
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Etheral

Wolf T5s for your bajillion cleaves (+Fort bypass). Assassin T4 for killer (or vistani T4 for crit profile and vistani goodies). Nature defensive stance. Some slush left over.

Gather everything up. Quicken sleet storm for no save blind. Pop defensive cooldown. Cleave like crazy for tons of sneak attack.

Could also go 10 Rogue/8 Druid/2 Bard and trade 4 sneak attack dice for an extra cleave (en point).

Would need to use either QStaves or daggers.
quick note: Unbongwah is correct, it is I that emphasizes improved feint! No need for combat expertise but you need a high bluff score (via gear too). So improved feint THEN cleave them for sneak damage

unbongwah
04-15-2018, 11:49 AM
quick note: Unbongwah is correct, it is I that emphasizes improved feint! No need for combat expertise but you need a high bluff score (via gear too). So improved feint THEN cleave them for sneak damage
Nice thing is that hypothetical build would have both Sleet Storm and Imp Feint, so twice the options for sneak atk goodness. :cool:

elvesunited
04-15-2018, 09:19 PM
Does improved feint work?

I thought it was bugged for everything but handwraps.

CPDK9
04-17-2018, 09:39 PM
For pure druids, I'm split between doing what's in this post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494863-Scratch-Pad-for-Build-fu?p=6083399&viewfull=1#post6083399): (A) all-in on melee, i.e., STR-based, everything spent on Nature's Warrior / Protector, possibly racial and/or Harper too; or (B) splitting my focus between melee (NW/NP) and caster (SH) for a hybrid.

Is the reason for the metas on the PDK melee/caster hybrid is to power up the wolf combat spells (Snowslide, Jaws of Winter, etc.)? Can Shrike keep up with that spell point expenditure? I think I'm leaning towards a wolf hybrid and leave the raging for a bear build.

Tilomere
04-17-2018, 10:34 PM
Don't use an runearm or you're in for a bad time.

Been working on build, I think I can use a runearm for added damage and especially for lightning immune. Druid spell casting and shapeshifting will be disabled, but I'm just using passive benefits, which will all still work.

I might use bear form with a shield, for the lulz.

Xera
08-02-2018, 10:07 AM
However my ideas from Lama preview were from before SSG added Beast Awakened ("You can now cast druidic magic while raging.") to the NP tree. So now I'm on the fence again. Or rather, the STR wolf build seems obvious: something like 41 NW / 22-26 NP / rest into Harper or wherever. [For bear build just reverse APs on NW / NP.] The WIS/STR hybrid build becomes more complicated.

Hi there, just wondering what do u mean the STR/WIS build becomes more complicated? I'm looking for a pure druid melee/caster hybrid build actually and as a quite recent player i most certainly don't understand everything about builds but that build u presented is actually the only post U38 build i found for a hybrid, or well, the only build that seems to fit the playstyle i'm looking for.

unbongwah
08-02-2018, 11:15 AM
Hi there, just wondering what do u mean the STR/WIS build becomes more complicated?
Basically that you don't have enough feats, APs, etc. to go around. If you want a caster druid, you focus on WIS, take a bunch of metamagic fetas, and invest most of your APs into Season's Herald. If you want a melee druid, you focus on STR, take a bunch of melee DPS feats, and split most of your APs between Nature's Warrior and Nature's Protector (depending on whether you focus on wolf or bear form). If you want to do both on a single druid...yeah, good luck with that. :rolleyes:

The new Falconry tree lets you make WIS both your caster and melee DPS stat; but it costs at least 12 APs to get WIS to dmg - 20+ APs if you want the tier-4 abilities like Deadly Instinct. And this is on top of the APs you already want to spend in the druid trees. So it eases one problem (stat consolidation) while worsening another (not enough APs for everything you want) and doesn't address the third (feat shortage).

As I mentioned elsewhere, all I really want is a bear druid with a viable Earthquake DC. I'm still working out how to do that without pigeon-holing myself into a gimped flavor build. :o

Xera
08-02-2018, 12:48 PM
The new Falconry tree lets you make WIS both your caster and melee DPS stat; but it costs at least 12 APs to get WIS to dmg - 20+ APs if you want the tier-4 abilities like Deadly Instinct. And this is on top of the APs you already want to spend in the druid trees. So it eases one problem (stat consolidation) while worsening another (not enough APs for everything you want) and doesn't address the third (feat shortage).

Oh yeah i actually didn't take a good look at the falconry tree, that's a real shame they didn't do it like harper with 12AP spent hit and damage with INT mod... :( why the **** did they put that at 20 APs grr.

So well, it's basically just impossible to make a wolf melee/caster hybrid, i'm sooooo disapointed :(. Thanks for the informations anyway.

unbongwah
08-02-2018, 01:55 PM
Oh it's still possible; it's just not a good idea. :p The closest I can come to a melee / caster hybrid is e.g. a STR-based Winter Wolf build which also uses ice spells like Creeping Cold and Ice Storm that have no save; it also seems to fit thematically with Cold Breath and Snowslide. And the only reason I seriously considered that approach is the Natural Fighting feats are relatively weaksauce compared to the other melee feat chains; giving up one or more of them for a metamagic or two doesn't seem to hurt wolf melee DPS the same way giving up the THF or TWF feats hurt their respective builds.

LightBear
08-10-2018, 09:34 AM
Ok, my thought after doing a druid life. :)

I went full on wis hoping to be able to multiclass at level 12 for a firecasting Druid.
Getting to 12 was harder with the new changes as a bear.
Once there I noticed that 12 wasn't enough for the enhancement for anger of the noonday sun, major bummer.

Went falconer as a bear and could not get the bird tricks to work as they where way to slow.
The rest of that tree was more then welcome, wis to damage and extra damage to helpless is very nice to make up for the mistake as going full on wis.

Once level 17 I didn't bother anymore for dragging in some other classes, finally anger of the noonday sun kicked in. :)

The new changes to bear kinda force you into going sword and board, will try that next life.

Before the changes I did a multiclass bear monk and that was fine.
Might go back there once just to be able to compare the two, might go full on wis again and make use of the falconer tree again.