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Torc
03-12-2018, 11:09 AM
Druid Pass - The following changes are up on Lammania. This is not the "entire" pass, but a lions share of it. Some spells have yet to be modified such as call lightning and storm of vengeance.


GENERAL CHANGES

1. Animal forms will now use the stats of the player's main hand weapon for melee attack purposes, such as Base Damage, Critical Multiplier, Critical Range, all Enchantments, Material traits, procs, etc. The issue with the power level of certain effects not scaling will be resolved by this as well.



Primal Avatar form and damage is “currently” not effected by theses changes for this build.



2. Existing combat style bugs are being fixed.



No combat style specific bonuses will function while in animal forms aside from Natural Fighting, and any bonuses native to the form (no dual wielding, shield bashes or single weapon attack speed).


Using a two-handed weapon still grants the 1.5 damage from your modifying stat, and Power Attack feat adjustments in animal form as well, for its additional bonus.

Shields still grant stat bonuses including armor class (but no shield bashes while in animal form)

Activated Attacks that require a specific weapon to be held in your hand will still not work in animal form (because sometimes these attacks have animation requirements) However things that modify your weapons base stats still work normally such as changing your primary damage stat.



3. Wolf form attack animations and movement speed has been adjusted.



We are reducing the Basic Wolf Form attack speed bonus to 15%. Winter wolf remains about the same speed at 30%. We are also fixing some flaky behavior in the attack chain.

All Wolf Speed increases now stacks with haste and other speed effects

Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid.


4. The Bear attack animation chain will be improved to make its attack rate match other weapon styles.



This will result in an approximate 15% increase in attack speed.

Bear form gains glancing blows as if it was using a two handed weapon. Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on

5. Water and Fire Elemental form will now grant 65% Absorption to their element, instead of Damage Reduction, and 15% Vulnerability to their opposite element.



The bonus will not stack with Fire Shields or Fire Energy Sheath. Absorption from items and other abilities still work.

6. Specific Spell Changes


The following druid innate animal spells will now work regardless of rage, feeblemind, quell or anti magic. Additional Changes listed per ability


Maul & Great Maul

Take Down

Pack Pressence

Baiting Bite
-DC: You use your spot score for the bluff role. This is still considered a bluff skill check.

Shred

Harrowing Pack

Rising Fury

Cold Breath

Tenacious Pack

Tremor

Jaws of Winter

Rising Fury
-Cooldown changed to 30 seconds

Relentless assault

Howl of Terror

Unstoppable

Snow Slide

Reincarnate's casting time and cool down will be put on par with Raise Dead.


Creeping Doom will now do acid damage and benefit form acid spell power. Each character can have their own copy of this dot on a target.

Enveloping Swarm is being re-designed as a single target instant application dot instead of a damage shield effect. Each character can have their own copy of this dot on a target.
Target is enveloped by insects taking 2d8 acid damage + 1d8 for every 3 druid levels every 2 seconds for 16 seconds.
SP Cost: 10
Meta Magics: Max, Intensify, Empower, Enlarge, Heighten
Reflex save for half each tick

Rising Fury's cooldown will be reduced to 30 seconds and the extend meta magic will work on it. (new)

Snare (updated)
Cost reduced to 5 sp
Re-occuring strength check now happens every 6 seconds not every 2 seconds.

Produce Flame Projectile speed is being increased (new)

Creeping cold and Greater creeping cold will now stack with each other when cast by other druids (two can each have their own copy on a target now)

Anger of the Noon Day Sun (updated)
Creatures affected who were immune/resistant/healed by to fire now take full damage. Will not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%.
-8% fortification

Mantle of Ice (updated)
Creatures affected who were immune/resistant/healed by to cold now take full damage. Will not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%.
10% attack speed slow
25% movement speed slow
-4 to fort/reflex saves

Elemental Toughness (updated)
Target: Self
DR removed. Now grants 1 physical resistance per druid level for the duration of the spell.
Lasts 30 seconds a druid level
Costs 25 spell points
Metas: Quicken Extend


Fires of Purity
-Fire DR penalty has been changed to a 10% vulnerability penalty

7. Removing pets damaging the druid/artificers on death


We’re going to be cutting the death penalty for pets and are discussing give a few more pet rez charges at certain levels. The arty enhancement that touches this will be reworked to something else.

Druids should now have 3 pet revivals a rest instead of 1



8. Natural Fighting Feat


Natural Weapon Fighting revamped. (work in progress, will change as testing progresses)

You have grown accustomed to fighting with claws, paws, and jaws. While in a Druid animal form, such as Bear or Wolf, you receive +4 to melee power, physical resistance rating and a +1 bonus to all tactic DCs. \n\nIn bear form your glancing blow damage is increased by 10%.\n\nThis feat can be taken up to three times. This feat gives no benefit to Druids in elemental or none animal forms.


ENHANCEMENT TREES

NATURE'S WARRIOR

CORES:


1. Nature's Warrior: Each Core including this one grants 8 hit points, +1 sneak attack dice in wolf form and +1 damage in wolf and bear form. (tool tip description in this build is missing the +1 damage but it should work)

2. Natural Senses: Your attacks penetrate 10% of your enemies fortification, +3 to listen, spot and search

3. Nature's Bounty: While in animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 2.0. Does not stack with Nature’s Protector cores.

4. Nature's Hunter: In wolf or bear form you gain a +1 competency bonus to crit damage multiplier on your weapon. Requires a weapon to be equipped.

5. Howling Frost: Casting Howl of Terror now grants you "Winter Hunt" for 10 seconds which grants +10 melee power and, 25% bonus to spell crit and 50% to spell crit damage to all cold damage spells. This will only occur once every 30 seconds.

6. Avatar of the Hunter: You have mastered the art of wielding divine magic in animal form, and using it to empower your body in physical combat. While in animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 1.5. Does not stack with Nature’s Protector cores.

Passive: +2 strength and wisdom and +10 to double strike and physical resistance

TIER 1


Nature's Empathy: 3/3, increases use of animal empathy, 5/10/15 increase to positive spell power. AP COST: 1

Snapping Jaws: Whenever you bluff or use an ability that triggers a bluff check such as baiting bite your target is debuffed losing -2 AC and you gain a stack of "Snapping jaws" for +2 AC for 15 seconds. Stacks 1/2/3 times. AP COST: 1

Take Down: Increase trip DCs by 1/2/3, AP COST: 1

Bestial Nature: Increase reflex fort saves by 1/2 (no longer a toggle) AP COST: 1

Athletic Hunter: Bonus to move silent,hide, jump and swim, tier 3 grants one charge of wild empathy 1/2/3 AP COST: 1

TIER 2


Flight: Gain an uncapped dodge bonus of 20% for 10/20/30 seconds, costs 1 wild empathy to activate, 30 second cooldown. AP COST: 1

Improved Dodge: +1/2/3 Dodge. AP COST: 1

Ghost Wolf: Requires wolf form. Activate, gain 35% incorporeal defense for 20 seconds, Cooldown 60 seconds. SP Cost: 15 Passive: Gain ghost touch while in wolf form to your melee attacks AP COST: 2

Prey on the Weak: 8/15% Damage Bonus against helpless targets AP COST: 1

Action Boost: Double Strike: Activate to gain a +[10/20/30]% action boost bonus to Doublestrike for 20 seconds. AP COST: 1

TIER 3


Fight: increase melee damage and AC, 1, 2, 3 in wolf or bear forms AP COST: 1 (requires: flight)

Brother Wolf: While your wolf pet is alive and within 40 meters it gains 5/10/15 hps every 12/9/6 seconds and 10/15/20 mrr & prr and you gain 1/2/3 to hit and damage AP COST: 1

Ghost Pack: When Ghost Wolf is triggered the spirits of your pack manifests around you striking nearby enemies for 1d6 bane damage per wilderness lore rank, scales with melee power, and applies confusing them for 5 seconds, no save. Bosses are not affected by the confusion . AP COST: 2

Essence of Nature: If you score a crit hit in melee you are granted 10/20 temp spell points for 8 seconds. Your pet has a 10% chance to proc this on its base attacks. Passive: + 5 Positive SP/10 AP COST: 1

Strength or Wisdom AP: 2 (new)

TIER 4


Fatal Harry: Killing an enemy grants you a 5% enhancement bonus to attack speed for 20 seconds. This can stack up to [1/3/5] times.
Enemies your own level or higher have a 100% chance of activating this ability. For every level below you, the chances are reduced by 20%. A monster two levels below you only has a 60% chance of creating this effect.
.AP COST:1 (as current ability on live but no longer a toggle, passive)

Four Legs Good: You become immune to most knock down effects in animal forms AP COST: 2

Ferocity: You gain +2/4/6 melee power in bear or wolf form. This bonus is doubled when under the effects of true rage (rage that prevents spell casting) AP COST: 1

Great White Wolf: +10/20/30 cold spell power, while in winter wolf form you gain 10/20/30% cold absorption. AP COST: 1

Strength or Wisdom AP: 2 (new)

TIER 5


Alpha Strike: AOE Melee Attack - Requires animal form: You fight for leadership of the pack. Area damage melee attack dealing +2[W]/+3[W]/+5[W]. This attack can doublestrike. On targets above 85% health it reduces their attack, range and spell power by 25 for 15 seconds. Activation Cost: 12/9/6 sp, Coodown: 18/15/12. AP COST: 1 (requires: fight)

Nature’s Swiftness: Wolf forms gain evasion. Armor restrictions apply. AP COST: 2

Throat Rip: Requires wolf form: Adds 6 bonus sneak attack dice. Against living targets silences target for 15 seconds on Fort save 10 + Druid level + Greater of Str/Wis + Stun Mods. Also inflicts a bleed that causes 6d6 damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Bleed Scales with melee power. Against bosses the silence is replaced with a 25 pt spell power debuff. 15 Second cool down. AP COST: 2 (updated - no longer requires stealth)

Jaws of the Great White Wolf: The spell Jaws of Ice now grants gain temporary hps equal to 10 times your character level. AP COST: 2

Go for the Kill: Wolf Form Required - You charge your target smashing into them for a 4[W] Melee attack and gain 15 melee power for 30 seconds. If the charge started from over 10 meters away the melee power bonus is doubled. Does 50 additional bludgeon damage against helpless targets, scales with melee power. Cooldown: 20 seconds. SP Cost: 15

NATURE'S PROTECTOR

CORES:


1. Nature's Protector: Gain 8 hp and 3 MRR. For every additional core in the tree gain 16 hp and 3 mrr.

2. Nature's Defense: Defensive Combat Stance +8 phy and magic resistance. Cannot be active with other defensive stances but can be used while raging.

3. Magical Beast: Gain heavy armor prof. In addition while in animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 2.0. Does not stack with Nature's Warrior Cores.

4. Big Claws: Adds Great Maul to your spell book. This is a version of the maul spell with the same cost and stats but stuns instead of causing a bleed on it. Shares cool down with maul. Stun DC: 10 + Druid level + Wisdom + Stun Modifiers.

5. Big Bear: The Tremor spell now deals 5-8 blunt damage per druid level in addition to it's knock down effect. This damage scales with melee power. Grants a 5% combat style bonus to attack speed.

Passive: Your attack speed in bear form is increased to 5% combat style bonus.

6. The Great Bear:

While in animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 1.5. Does not stack with Nature’s Warrior Cores (new – mirror spell casting benefit from wolf tree and updated stats.

Passive: +2 Con, +2 Str. Your attack speed in bear form is increased by another 5% to a total of 10%.


TIER 1


Rage of the Beast: Activate to rage gaining +4 strength and Con, +2 will saves, -2 ac for 40 seconds, but disallowing the casting of magic. Requires bear or wolf form. This ability shares cool down and charges with Barbarian class rage. Effects that modify barbarian rage also effect Rage of the Beast and using it counts as a use of barbarian rage and vice versa. Effect persists through shape changes Can be used 1/2 per rest. AP COST: 1

Fey’s Blessing: Gain +2/4/6 MRR AP COST: 1

Improved Nature's Defense: Competence bonus to one of three, Increase Threat by 50/100/150%, PRR MRR 4/8/12, Saving Throws by 1/2/3 AP COST: 1

Bloody Claws: Using Maul grants a stack of "Killer instincts" granting +1 damage for 15 seconds. Stacks 1/2/3. AP COST: 1

Animal Brutality: Gain a +1/2/3 bonus to intimidate, swim, jump AP COST: 1

TIER 2


Primal Beast: Gain 5/10 melee power when raging in animal form. Gain one more use of rage 1/2. AP COST: 1 Requires Rage of the Beast

Thick Hide: Nature Armor Bonus 2/4/6 AP COST: 1

Improved Nature's Defense: Competence bonus to one of three, Increase Threat by 50/100/150%, PRR MRR 4/8/12, Saving Throws by 1/2/3 AP COST: 1

Sharp Bloody Claws: Shred now also applies killer instinct AP COST: 1

Defense Boost: Action boost grants 5/10/15 ac 7/12/20 mrr for 20 seconds. 30 second cool down. AP COST: 1

TIER 3


Enduring Beast: while raging Increase healing amp by 10/20 in any animal forms. Gain one more use of rage per rank. AP COST: 1 Requires: Undying Beast

Spirit Refreshed: When shape shifting forms below 33% health you heal to full and cure all fatigue. This benefit can only occur once every 3 minutes. AP COST: 2 (new – applies to all forms now)

Improved Nature's Defense: Competence bonus to one of three, Increase Threat by 50/100/150%, PRR MRR 4/8/12, Saving Throws by 1/2/3 AP COST: 1

Ursa Protector: While in bear form nature's defense now does one of these, +2/4/6 con, +3/6/9 MRR, +15/20/25 % to max hp AP COST: 1


Strength OR Wisdom AP COST: 2

TIER 4



Undying Beast: While raging in animal form you gain immunity to death effects and energy drain. Gains one more use of rage. AP COST: 2 Requires: Primal Beast

Spirit Renewed: When shifting forms below 33% health you heal to full and benefit from a restore spell. This can now occur once every 2 minute. Still removes fatigue. AP COST: 2 Requires: Spirit refreshed

Savage Roar: Using the Roar spell with 1 stack of killer instinct active now triggers a burst of sonic damage around the druid for 1d3 per rank of wilderness lore. Scales with melee power. If you have 2 stacks it also stuns at DC: 10 + Wilderness Rank + Strength Mod + Stun Bonus. At 3 stacks the damage is 1d10 per rank of wilderness lore and stuns. Clears all stacks of killing instinct when triggered. AP: 2

Ursa Protector: While in bear form nature's defense now does one of these, +2/4/6 con, +3/6/9 MRR, +15/20/25 % to max hp AP COST: 1

Strength OR Wisdom AP COST: 2

TIER 5


Beast unleashed: Gain one additional uses of Rage of the Best per rest. While raging you gain 15% double strike. and while in bear form 50% increase in threat generation and 15% bonus to your armor class. AP COST: 2
Requires Enduring Beast

Spirit Bear Charge: Requires bear form Charge forward inflicting +3W and knocking down enemies, reflex save vs DC 15 + Highest of Str/Wis + Trip Bonuses. 15 second cooldown. AP COST: 2

Lightning strikes the Mountain: Activating calls down a bolt of lightning that strikes the druid granting a 100% bonus to threat and MRR for 15 second. 20 MRR / 40 MRR in nature’s protector stance. Nearby enemies take 1d8 in lightning damage per wilderness lore rank. Scales with melee power. SP Cost: 15. 30 Second cooldown. (new – Replaced/Improved Great roar)

Ursa's Protector: While in bear form nature's defense now does one of these, +2/4/6 con, +3/6/9 MRR, +15/20/25 % to max hp AP COST: 1

Force of Nature: You gain 10/15/20% resistance against force damage and 1/2/3 con. AP COST: 1

SEASONS HERALD

CORES:


1. Child of Summer: You gain the ability Child of Summer: Activate to grant +5 Spellpower when casting fire, force, light, sonic and positive spells. This seasonal Spellpower is multiplied by one for every Core enhancement possessed in Season's Herald (starting with this one), up to +30 when you have all six Enhancements. Lasts until death or change of season. Fire Elemental form changes you into this season automatically.

Passive: +1 Universal Spellpower per AP spent in this tree.

2. Child of Winter: You gain Child of Winter: Activate to gain +5 Spellpower when casting water, acid, earth and electric spells per core in this tree. Lasts until death or season change. Water elemental form changes you into this season automatically.

Passive: +1 caster levels to spells in your active season.

3. Nature's Wellspring: The effects of your shillelagh are doubled. +1 max caster level in your active season

4. Sun Burst: Gain Sun Burst as an SLA, SP: 4, Cooldown: 20 seconds (new – lowered cooldown)

5. The Storm of Change: Gain Storm of Vengeance as an SLA, SP 20 cost. 2 minute cool down.

6. Hierophant: You are wise and skilled in the art of wielding divine magic to summon aid and change the world around you. +2 Wisdom +2 Con +10 Universal spell power. Your Conjuration and Evocation spells gain +1 DC, +1 caster level and +1 max caster level. (update – decreased wis/con bonus and mass caster levels)

TIER 1:


Beguile: Whenever you attack or cast a spell on an enemy, there is a 50% chance to Beguile an affected enemy [1/0-2/0-3] times for [3/0-6/0-9] seconds. Beguile: -2% attack speed, -2 Spellpower. Beguile stacks up to 25 times, and one stack fades every few seconds. Up to one enemy affected each second (by up to [1/2/3] stacks). Does not affect bosses. AP COST: 1

Shared Spirit: Your wolf pet gains 3/6/10% bonus to hps. Passive: You gain 1/2/3 spell power. AP COST: 1

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season.
Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, Earth, and Water
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force and Sonic
-AP COST: 2

Produce Flame: Spell Like Ability: Produce Flame. Cost: 6/5/3, Cooldown: 10/6/4 AP COST: 1 (new – lowered cooldown)

Druidic Wisdom: Gain a +1/2/3 to heal, spellcraft and diplomancy skills. AP COST: 1

TIER 2:


Efficient MetaMagic: Reduce the cost of a meta magic, empower, enlarge, maximize, quicken AP COST: 2

Efficient MetaMagic: Reduce the cost of a meta magic, empower, enlarge, maximize, quicken AP COST: 2

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season.
Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, Earth, and Water
Summer: Fire, Light, Force, Positive, Force and Sonic
AP COST: 2
Requires previous tier.

Creeping Cold: Spell Like Ability: Creeping Cold (Cost: [6/5/3] SP. Cooldown: [12/10/8] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires produce flame

Action Boost: Spell Power: Action boost grants 10/20/30 spell power for 20 seconds. 30 second cool down. AP COST: 1

TIER 3


Autumn Leaves: Toggle ability: Leaves always seem to blow around the druid. Grants feather fall, +2 dodge and 5% proc chance on anyone hitting you in melee to be knocked down by a blast of air. Costs: 15 SP Lasts until death or toggled off AP COST: 1

Efficient Heighten AP COST: 2

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season.
Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, Earth, and Water
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, Force and Sonic
AP COST: 2
Requires previous tier

Call Lightning: Spell Like Ability: Call Lightning (Cost: [10/8/6] SP. Cooldown: [12/8/6] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires: Creeping cold (new - lowered cooldown)

Wisdom +1 AP COST: 2

TIER 4:


Spring Resurgence: Fill an ally with the vitality of spring. When that ally falls below 50% hit points, that ally and any other allies near him are healed by 20d6
positive energy, and receive a +2 primal bonus to attack rolls. (Lasts 5 minutes or until triggered.) (Activation Cost: [8/6/4] Spell Points.)
Cooldown: [8/4/2] seconds) AP COST: 1 (new – lowered cooldown to make buffing party easier)

Strength of the Solstice: +1 to the save DC's of your Evocation and Conjuration spells AP COST: 2

Wax and Wane: +2% critical chance with spells associated with your current season.
Winter: Acid, Cold, Electric, Earth, and Water
Summer: Fire, Force, Light, Positive, and Sonic
AP COST: 2

Salt Ray: Spell Like Ability: Salt Ray (Cost: [12/10/8] SP. Cooldown: [12/10/8] seconds) AP COST: 1

Wisdom +1 AP COST: 2

TIER 5


Crown of Summer: A target of your choice is filled with the light and vitality of summer. That target gains a 15% enhancement bonus to Healing Amplification, and 10 melee power and 5 ranged power. (Activation Cost: 1 Spell Point. Cooldown: 6 seconds) Only one target can have the crown at a time. AP COST: 1

Master of the Elements: Gain 5/10/15 spell power in your season. Passive rank 3: If the character has 17 druid levels they gain anger of the noonday sun or mantle of icy when changing in the appropriate elemental form. This effect costs 8 spells points when it occurs.

Time and Time again: increase your caster level and max caster level by +1 AP COST: 2

Word of Balance: Spell Like Ability: Word of Balance (Cost: [12/9/6] SP. Cooldown: [20/15/10] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires: Salt Ray (will fix bug with this spell getting blocked by spell resistance)

Armor of Winter: Gain 8 times your wisdom in temporary Hit points that lasts 60 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds, Sp Cost: 12) AP COST: 2 (new – moved spell power and allow it to work in any elemental form/season)

PsychoBlonde
03-12-2018, 10:14 PM
"Animal forms will now use the stats of the player's main hand weapon for melee attack purposes, such as Base Damage, Critical Multiplier, Critical Range, all Enchantments, Material traits, procs, etc. The issue with the power level of certain effects not scaling will be resolved by this as well."

Question . . . so what improved critical feat now applies when you're in animal form? Is it the one specific to the weapon you're wielding?

Pilgrim1
03-12-2018, 10:43 PM
(1) on live crown of summer gives +30 heal amp. The 15% is a holdover from before the Heal amp changes.
(2) on live seasons hearld offers several transmutation bonuses. All of these are droped. This is unfortunate as druid has several solid transmutation options. The previous bonus allowed druids to have a better chance of landing them. Please re-introduce transmutation bonuses back into the tree. They are not over powered they allow additional spell options to druids.
(3) seasons hearld and wolf tree both offer small pet bonuses. Consiter adding something like this to the bear tree.
(4) does salt ray still daze? Have you made it stun like the description states? On live it only dazes (no additional helpless damage).
(5) does the wolf movment speed stack with other sorces of run speed? It feels like wolves should fast runners. You know.. the mammal that will take a week to walk some 500 miles from the rockies to oregon. The animal which runs down various dear/elk/caraboo/bison.
(6) i notice that natural fighting does not give a additional bonus to wolf form. Is this intended?
(7) i wonder if you could incoperate the bonuses from the t5 wolf ability “go for the kill” to work with the wolf spell snow-slide. They seam like the same ability. And snowslide is really fun.

Thanks

Xugx_quetoxi
03-12-2018, 10:49 PM
Please add All Martial Weapon Proficiency for the Druid Melee Trees. Don't force us to choose between losing a feat or multi-classing.

Other caster classes melee trees with All Martial Weapon Proficiency:
Wizard/Sorcerer Eldritch Knight: second tier
Bard Warchanter: second core
Warlock Enlightened Spirit: fourth core

Stretch request: Full BAB at 20 (see Enlightened Spirit capstone and Warchanter 5th core)

Also, Pink Dire Bears!

Thank you for your time and consideration,
Chickenplucker, Argo

Maelodic
03-12-2018, 11:58 PM
I won't have my actual PC around and have to play on my chromebook which lags like crazy, but playing with these abilities it seems as though you've made Wolves specifically for me and I am extremely excited. I was able to run a short quest and test some of them out. I was originally planning on doing a Gnome build that uses INT to attack and damage, the crit threat range, and color spray. With howl of terror, I don't need no stinkin color spray, it's amazing.

I'm worried about the viability of Howl of Terror, though - could I get the DC calculation for that and whether or not it's subject to spell penetration? Is it going to retain its will save as listed at the moment?

MasterKernel
03-13-2018, 01:28 AM
2 "Preview" threads and… nothing has been changed. All the useless stuff are here.
Why did we have any of the previews (Lammania's one include) again ?

PsychoBlonde
03-13-2018, 01:56 AM
Bear druid is my new favorite thing.

TackW5
03-13-2018, 02:13 AM
I did a couple of quick tests with spell-like Produce Flame and Call Lightning and the seasons. When I activated summer and winter my spellpower changed in the character sheet display, but the crit chance did not change and showed only 7% (feats, no gear equipped except starter rags). With all 4 Wax and Wanes my crit chance should have been 15%. I tested with:

100 x Produce Flame - 3 crits
50 x Call Lightning - 4 crits

So, W&W is not showing in the spellpower display and does not appear to be having an effect.

Also, turning on Child of Summer changed my positive spell power more than any of the others, 45 rather than 30.

On a positive note, the caster level and max caster level effects all seemed to be working and stacking with the effects from dragonborn.

HuneyMunster
03-13-2018, 06:27 AM
(4) does salt ray still daze? Have you made it stun like the description states? On live it only dazes (no additional helpless damage).


Its described as a stun with a Fort save that doesn't induce helplessness or breaks on damaged. I don't think this should induce helplessness due to the regular spell has a 2 sec cooldown while the SLA has a 8 sec cooldown. This makes a decent spamable singles target cc.

TDarkchylde
03-13-2018, 07:33 AM
I'm liking the changes to the Season's Herald tree so far. Making Beguile no longer a SLA requirement is a win in my book, if it stays as it is right now and has a chance of not applying any stacks at all at higher tiers. Some of the stuff in the higher tiers is wonderful, including the Shining Through analogue at Tier 5 (Temp HP = 8x Wis.)

I also LOVE the fact that you can choose to exclusively run in one season now, and that it can automatically change you to the corresponding Elemental form in the process! Gearing for all of the different spellpowers has been a nightmare since the changes to spellpower items from so long ago, especially on a Druid, and having to change Elemental form and possibly gear to get the most out of a season change, especially mid-fight, is just too much upkeep.

I didn't play around much with the new animal form trees because my current Druid runs as a tanky caster (Gingerspyce build), but I did check out a couple of things from the Bear tree.



NATURE'S PROTECTOR

CORES:


3. Magical Beast: Gain heavy armor prof. In addition while in animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 2.0. Does not stack with Nature's Warrior Cores.

This doesn't seem to work yet. I tried not taking the Heavy Armor feat and getting it from that core instead and I got a nonproficiency penalty while wearing Shadow Dragonplate (the heavy one). Otherwise, I do like the fact that some of the benefits work outside of animal form, but not all. It makes for some interesting build variety.

I'll reserve judgment on whether or not this makes bear tanks actually viable to those with more experience on the subject, but not completely shutting out Elemental form tanks with these changes is a win in my book.

That said, as a caster Druid, there is next to nothing worth taking in the Wolf tree for me (not that that's a bad thing, for build diversity's sake). Also, the few bones tossed to the wolf pet in these trees seem all gnawed up already and not worth taking - pets need much more of an overhaul. It just can't be done in the class trees. Perhaps a summoning Reaper tree, but with the caveat that it does NOT affect charmed/dominated mobs, just summons and Druid/Arti pets. (I'm aware charmed mobs are a bit OP in Reaper, and I don't want to suggest worsening the problem there, but normal summons and pets are diversions at best, dead weight a lot of the time, and actively detrimental at worst in that setting.)

SerPounce
03-13-2018, 08:51 AM
8. Natural Fighting Feat

Natural Weapon Fighting revamped. (work in progress, will change as testing progresses)

You have grown accustomed to fighting with claws, paws, and jaws. While in a Druid animal form, such as Bear or Wolf, you receive +4 to melee power, physical resistance rating and a +1 bonus to all tactic DCs. \n\nIn bear form your glancing blow damage is increased by 10%.\n\nThis feat can be taken up to three times. This feat gives no benefit to Druids in elemental or none animal forms.


So compared to the previous plan:
-1 feat cost (yay!)
+3 melee power
+3 PRR in wolf
-3 PRR in Bear
-3 dodge/dodge cap/max dex in wolf form
-15% glancing blow damage in bear form

I'm glad it's no long a 4 feat chain and that you get both bear and wolf bonuses (though the enhancement trees alone make a dual form build questionable), but I really don't think they needed those reductions.


2. Existing combat style bugs are being fixed.


No combat style specific bonuses will function while in animal forms aside from Natural Fighting, and any bonuses native to the form (no dual wielding, shield bashes or single weapon attack speed).


Using a two-handed weapon still grants the 1.5 damage from your modifying stat, and Power Attack feat adjustments in animal form as well, for its additional bonus.

Shields still grant stat bonuses including armor class (but no shield bashes while in animal form)

Activated Attacks that require a specific weapon to be held in your hand will still not work in animal form (because sometimes these attacks have animation requirements) However things that modify your weapons base stats still work normally such as changing your primary damage stat.


Doesn't this create a situation where 2 handers are strongly preferred? Sure you get a slot for shield/orb and maybe some AC, but for any build that wants to DPS that's a minor consideration compared to raw damage. Seems like you should at least be able to benefit from shield feats. After all can't you benefit from 2HF feats (with bastard sword or dwarf axe) and SWF feat (while swashbuckling with buckler) and shield feats? Seems like shield feats are a separate category than weapon style feats and ought to work together.



Fatal Harry: Killing an enemy grants you a 5% enhancement bonus to attack speed for 20 seconds. This can stack up to [1/3/5] times.
Enemies your own level or higher have a 100% chance of activating this ability. For every level below you, the chances are reduced by 20%. A monster two levels below you only has a 60% chance of creating this effect.
.AP COST:1 (as current ability on live but no longer a toggle, passive)

Any chance of making this a smaller bonus, but stack with enhancement items? Also do all the stack disappear at once? They should go down one at a time like almost all recently created abilities do. This sounds like a nice ability on paper, but in practice keeping up 4/5 stacks just doesn't really happen. Increasing the duration to 30 seconds would help with that also.

[edit] also can you still not use wands and scrolls in animal form? That's a huge hit for anyone in heroic reaper, and a general inconvenience for everyone. Maybe that's too deep into the code, but it would be a great quality of life thing to make that stuff work. Having to change forms for every scroll is wretched.

unbongwah
03-13-2018, 09:52 AM
Question . . . so what improved critical feat now applies when you're in animal form? Is it the one specific to the weapon you're wielding?
I believe Torc said in the other thread(s) that it would be whichever feat goes with your equipped weapon.

Doesn't this create a situation where 2 handers are strongly preferred? Sure you get a slot for shield/orb and maybe some AC, but for any build that wants to DPS that's a minor consideration compared to raw damage.
That's clearly by design: either use a 2H weapon for the extra melee damage or use your offhand for other bonuses (e.g., orb for Spellpower, shield for AC and passive bonuses). If in bear form, I presume single-wielded b.sword or d.axe will proc glancing blows, which opens up some TYWA build ideas for me...heh heh heh. :cool:

edrein
03-13-2018, 10:05 AM
No combat style specific bonuses will function while in animal forms aside from Natural Fighting, and any bonuses native to the form (no dual wielding, shield bashes or single weapon attack speed).


Using a two-handed weapon still grants the 1.5 damage from your modifying stat, and Power Attack feat adjustments in animal form as well, for its additional bonus.

Shields still grant stat bonuses including armor class (but no shield bashes while in animal form)

Activated Attacks that require a specific weapon to be held in your hand will still not work in animal form (because sometimes these attacks have animation requirements) However things that modify your weapons base stats still work normally such as changing your primary damage stat.


So there's still no reason in this proposal for any DPS oriented druid to run any sort of offhand item (weapon, orb, shield, etc.). You're practically making two handers the most attractive option, especially when considering the boost to shillelagh in Season's is going to make a wooden staff build being pretty solid in the hands of splashed druids. The only exception to this is a druid running Dethek Runestone for the slight advantage it gives over other offhand items.

Please consider allowing offhand weapons to apply their magical effects to your mainhand damage ala throwing builds holding an offhand weapon (shurikens and celestia for example.)
Also consider allowing us to make use of the doublestrike and PRR/MRR from shield mastery, improved shield mastery, and legendary shield mastery if we invest the additional feats. (Which will be hard given how feat starved druids are.) Don't allow us to use the melee power from the combat style as a trade off. It's fair that way.
I'd also suggest an orb bonus similar to Loud and Clear/Arcane Marauder/Music Box from Swashbuckler. Allow druids to use non-metallic orbs with an appropriate damage or casting boost applied, perhaps as an use for hybrid builds and elemental season heralds.



Bear form gains glancing blows as if it was using a two handed weapon. Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on[/INDENT]


Is this supposed to be a base percentage that isn't listed numerically? Otherwise there's a nerf to the glancing blows in this preview compared to the previous posts.



8. Natural Fighting Feat


Natural Weapon Fighting revamped. (work in progress, will change as testing progresses)

You have grown accustomed to fighting with claws, paws, and jaws. While in a Druid animal form, such as Bear or Wolf, you receive +4 to melee power, physical resistance rating and a +1 bonus to all tactic DCs. \n\nIn bear form your glancing blow damage is increased by 10%.\n\nThis feat can be taken up to three times. This feat gives no benefit to Druids in elemental or none animal forms.


As above, 30% is a massive decrease compared to 45% which is already pretty low considering two handed fighting is 50%. There's no built in increases in the bear tree for this currently.
Edit: This also removed doublestrike from wolves? Yeesh talk about a nerf if so.

There's also the issue of the Insidious Spores spell in Primal Avatar. Is it going to be changed to acid damage to mimic Creeping Doom? If so will it scale with spellpower now (as Rust damage is now a thing as well via the Artificer changes as of late.)

In general I plan to hopefully get onto Lammania somepoint this evening after having updated my client to test a few things, mostly to see how bears play out in practicality compared to on paper for more in depth responses and feedback.

SerPounce
03-13-2018, 10:06 AM
That's clearly by design: either use a 2H weapon for the extra melee damage or use your offhand for other bonuses (e.g., orb for Spellpower, shield for AC and passive bonuses). If in bear form, I presume single-wielded b.sword or d.axe will proc glancing blows, which opens up some TYWA build ideas for me...heh heh heh. :cool:

I was under the impression you would get glancing blows in bear form with any weapon even ones that don't normally produce glancing blows.

I'm downloading now. Hopefully add that to my to-test list.

Seems like while an extra slot is always nice that if you're planning on having melee DPS be any significant part of what you do that having 2H weapon damage is going to win over an extra slot. Even if you have a runestone shield (and good luck getting one now if you don't), that's still only +11 damage with a bastard sword. Switching to a falchion is going to add a lot more than that.

Zistra
03-13-2018, 11:05 AM
Doesn't this create a situation where 2 handers are strongly preferred? Sure you get a slot for shield/orb and maybe some AC, but for any build that wants to DPS that's a minor consideration compared to raw damage. Seems like you should at least be able to benefit from shield feats. After all can't you benefit from 2HF feats (with bastard sword or dwarf axe) and SWF feat (while swashbuckling with buckler) and shield feats? Seems like shield feats are a separate category than weapon style feats and ought to work together.

No:

"Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on"

Pretty sure I read somewhere that SWF wouldn't apply in animal forms, too.

unbongwah
03-13-2018, 11:51 AM
I was under the impression you would get glancing blows in bear form with any weapon even ones that don't normally produce glancing blows.
Hmm, does it? I'll have to adjust my build ideas accordingly then.

SerPounce
03-13-2018, 12:14 PM
No:

"Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on"

Pretty sure I read somewhere that SWF wouldn't apply in animal forms, too.

I'm not sure what you're contradicting. Yes, 2WF, SWF, and 2HF feats do not work in animal form. Neither to shield feats. I was saying that I think it would make sense to allow shield feats since they aren't really "weapon style feats" and can be used in conjunction with weapon style feats in other builds.

LrdSlvrhnd
03-13-2018, 12:17 PM
"Animal forms will now use the stats of the player's main hand weapon for melee attack purposes, such as Base Damage, Critical Multiplier, Critical Range, all Enchantments, Material traits, procs, etc. The issue with the power level of certain effects not scaling will be resolved by this as well."

Question . . . so what improved critical feat now applies when you're in animal form? Is it the one specific to the weapon you're wielding?

Per Torc's response here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494334-Druid-Update-Preview-V-2#post6071181), it's specific to the weapon. Which gives me a sad, because one IC to rule them all was awesome.


No:

"Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on"

Pretty sure I read somewhere that SWF wouldn't apply in animal forms, too.

He's not referring to shield mastery working with animal form, but using it working with THF (via b-sword/d-axe) and SWF (via Swashbuckler) to argue that it *should* work with animal form. Flipside being that you're no longer technically wielding a shield, but you're also no longer wielding, say, a scimitar, but you still need IC:Slashing for it.

Xario
03-13-2018, 12:31 PM
Have a plan to play Warforged Druid in Nature's Protector tree, but unfortunately this character will be crippled. He will gain so many Magical Resistence from this tree, but it will be wasted, because MMR cap of 50. There isn't way to can have armor as druid warfoged :(.

If some Ironwood Body can be gained ...

What about:

3. Magical Beast: Gain heavy armor prof (Adamantine body not longer prohibited because changed to Ironwood) . In addition while in animal form, the cooldown penalty for non-animal form spells is reduced from 2.5 times the usual length to 2.0. Does not stack with Nature's Warrior Cores.

edrein
03-13-2018, 12:33 PM
My current list of issues/bugs on Lammania applying solely to Wildshapes:

1. Dethek Runestone is only applying +1W to items, while providing +2W if not holding a weapon.
2. Single Dagger does not work in bear form. (Current work around seems to be equipping the dagger before shapeshifting and thus the 20MP remains. Swapping for any reason removes this.)
2. Single Dagger does not work with shields. We really need a clarification on whether or not this is intentional. As it currently works with Runearms on live, but no orbs or shields.
3. Tremor: does not seem to be effected by melee power when Big Bear is taken or the scaling is too low to be appropriate at cap with 100+ MP.
4. Great Maul does not show up in your spell book, unless it is supposed to replace Maul.
5. Savage Roar is not scaling high enough with melee power, the damage is extremely anemic at cap.
6. Without Great Maul existing as a separate attack, it is currently a bit difficult to maintain killer instinct stacks at their decay rate/spell cooldowns.
7. 6 uses of rage is not enough at 1 minute duration. Please have it scale with constitution like barbarians.
8. Any druidic wildshape spell breaks defensive fighting like normal spellcasting, this means druids trying to prevent glancing blows are going to have a nightmare of a time self healing/attacking.
9. Lightning Strikes the Mountain deals slashing damage currently and again does not scale appropriately with melee power for cap.
10. Nature's Defense stance prevents glancing blows. This is problematic for those of us who want our 25% HP bonus which is practically required in epics for meleeing. Removing the proposed Power Attack requirement was a god-send, but please consider making either two versions of the defensive stance or a secondary weapon toggle for glancing blows like Venomed Blades/Lighting The Candle/Ninja Poison.
11. Casting Rage of the Beast removes Single Dagger.
12. A Dance of Flowers did not apply to animal form attacks despite being centered. (This also applied to daggers via Vistani centering.)
13. Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery, and Legendary Shield Mastery are working with Natural Fighting. This seems non-WAI if going by the notes. The melee power applies as well.
14. Bear form cleaves seem to be buggy. There is a delay between the animation and scroll text/actual damage application.
15. Not enough filigrees in the dojo to complete the Blood Feast set to test if it works with bear rage.
16. Animal attacks no longer possess DR breaking qualities for weapon type. AKA: No slashing and blunt for bears.

SerPounce
03-13-2018, 12:34 PM
Hmm, does it? I'll have to adjust my build ideas accordingly then.

Just tested, and yes, you get glancing blow damage in bear for regardless of weapon type (got them using a dagger and unarmed).

On the other hand you do NOT get glancing blow damage with cleaves (like you do with 2 handers generally). I imagine that's probably vaguely not WAI, but I wouldn't count on it changing.

Other notes: Slivanus maul crit range does work in animal form. Swashbucking continues to not work (as the tooltips state, so WAI, but I thought I'd check since that would be sweet).

edrein
03-13-2018, 12:42 PM
Edit: I'd like to say that my review is based on my list of bugs/issues here. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494786-Lammania-Druid-Update?p=6077627&viewfull=1#post6077627


Overall the bear changes are an improvement.

However, the one thing I feel like they fail in so far is damage. None of their abilities scale high enough with melee power to be effective in epics let alone reaper. While I managed to kill Kobolds relatively quickly with my live melee set (which hasn't been updated since Thunderforged gear came out due to my ETRing/Racial/Break from the game), I noticed my AoE potential was awful. Abilities made to deal AoE via melee power scaling were just plain atrocious. Cleaves are buggy at the moment as well.

I didn't get to test the defenses in a live trial by fire, but they looked decent, certainly for the fact I was wearing only a Dethek Runestone and no actual armor, and sitting at about 50% defense chance.

Not a fan of the defensive stance within the tree preventing glancing blows. This needs to be handled as a weapon stance like Venomed Blades. As a melee DPS practically needs the 25% HP bonus if they want to live long enough to actually perform their role.

Overall it felt like a nice flavored mix between barbarian and a caster, though clearly not as strong as a warlock or the various bard/rogue warlock melee splits you see running amuck in heroics.

I think bears and wolves need to use the their highest stat for casting similar to Dire Charge. Or at the very least, let us use the thematic tree bonuses. AKA: Bears can use Con/Str/Wis and wolves can use Dex/Str/Wis.

I don't want to touch the wolves personally, wasn't a big fan of the animations and wanted to get my feeling of being a powerful vengeful bear in. So to a degree thanks for giving me part of this. Hope my feedback helps and if need be I'd be glad to speak on length via discord or on lammania, or even in PMs if need be.

unbongwah
03-13-2018, 01:57 PM
Bear form gains glancing blows as if it was using a two handed weapon. Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on


Not a fan of the defensive stance within the tree preventing glancing blows.
I read the OP as meaning the Defensive Fighting feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Defensive_Fighting) disables glancing blows; are you saying Nature's Defense stance disables glancing blows? Have you tested that?

edrein
03-13-2018, 02:03 PM
[/INDENT]

I read the OP as meaning the Defensive Fighting feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Defensive_Fighting) disables glancing blows; are you saying Nature's Defense stance disables glancing blows? Have you tested that?

I tested it. Refer to my list of bugs/issues on the first page of the thread.

Ahwaric
03-13-2018, 02:18 PM
(2) on live seasons hearld offers several transmutation bonuses. All of these are droped. This is unfortunate as druid has several solid transmutation options. The previous bonus allowed druids to have a better chance of landing them. Please re-introduce transmutation bonuses back into the tree. They are not over powered they allow additional spell options to druids.
I have posted this in both feedback threads. Transmutation is nice for druids, and removing the transmutation DC bonuses hurts water druids mostly. I do not think that was the intention, or should not be Fire elemental gets healing spells boost, water one does not, and nothing will be fire immune with current changes (it balanced things a bit before, as fire was resisted the most).
Bring transmutation back please, it would hardly be OP.


2 "Preview" threads and… nothing has been changed. All the useless stuff are here.
Why did we have any of the previews (Lammania's one include) again ?
There were some changes, but in general, I feel like much of the feedback was ignored. I do not expect everything to go in, as some suggestions are not good, but there were some valid suggestions. And there was no response.


I'm liking the changes to the Season's Herald tree so far. Making Beguile no longer a SLA requirement is a win in my book, if it stays as it is right now and has a chance of not applying any stacks at all at higher tiers. Some of the stuff in the higher tiers is wonderful, including the Shining Through analogue at Tier 5 (Temp HP = 8x Wis.)
Talking of beguile, I am happy that it stays. But would it be really so much to make it either affect more than one target per second (so at least some would probably get a stack) or make one stack guaranteed on higher tiers? Right now it affects one target and it can get 0 stacks.

Maelodic
03-13-2018, 02:24 PM
Tooltips on the innate abilities don't all seem to be updated - really interested in the DC numbers.

The stat point increases on the bear tree are only costing 1 AP, normally they are two for other trees. WAI?

unbongwah
03-13-2018, 02:30 PM
If you have the Weapon Finesse feat, do you only get DEX to-hit with a Finesseable weapon equipped; or will it apply to any weapon? Currently on live it applies with any weapon equipped in animal form; but obviously with the revamp here, that may be changing...

Ahwaric
03-13-2018, 03:22 PM
Several problems noticed so far:
1) Autumn Winds add +2 to dodge instead +3 implied by tooltip/changelog
2) Magical Beast does not add Heavy Armor Proficiency
3) Wellspring does not improve Shillelagh - tested with banhammer, gives just +0.5 W
4) Strength of Solstice tooltip says +1 to Evocation & transmutation (instead of conjuration). I do not mind Transmutation bonus (would be great), but I guess it is just tooltip.
EDIT:
5) Thick Hide natural armor bonus does not stack with bonus from items - intended? If so, it is quite strange, as usually enhancements do stack with items. And it becomes useless soon, as at lvl 10 you can craft an item with natural armor 6 - no need to use AP.
6) Wax and Wane does not work.

SerPounce
03-13-2018, 03:52 PM
I tested it. Refer to my list of bugs/issues on the first page of the thread.

That's got to be a bug. I assume they meant to make them not work in "defensive fighting" for quests like sleeping dust, not to render it useless by one of the bears other primary abilities.

LrdSlvrhnd
03-13-2018, 04:08 PM
If you have the Weapon Finesse feat, do you only get DEX to-hit with a Finesseable weapon equipped; or will it apply to any weapon? Currently on live it applies with any weapon equipped in animal form; but obviously with the revamp here, that may be changing...

My guess would be with the weapon changes that yeah, it'll require a finessable weapon. It's already been stated that the non-proficiency penalty will apply and that the Improved Crit will be based on the weapon. So despite no longer wielding a weapon, you're still very much wielding the weapon. I can't imagine that finessing with a bastard sword will work in form, either.

Qhualor
03-13-2018, 08:43 PM
tonight I copied over my tempest ranger from Live to test Snare. he is a level 18 with multiple past lives and working on his first dwarf past life. what he normally wears at level 18 is what I used on Lama. this was very limited testing.

I went into Vale wilderness and tested on various mobs. it worked maybe half the time. had a 21 Strength DC with just ship buffs and no other buffs. most times mobs were freed within the 2 seconds.

went into elite LOD and did the same thing, except I used standard ranger spell buffs with the ship buffs. this time I recorded it. it worked maybe less than half the time. did manage to Snare a random Champion and the named dog that was also a Champion. again, most mobs were freed within 2 seconds.

I take it that Snare is not updated on this Lama build because it still costs 15 sp and 2 second strength saves. the tooltip even said so. I don't know if druids are able to boost the DC more than rangers, but I suppose I build my tempest ranger not much different than anyone else in heroics. surprising to see Snare work at all considering last time I tried using it on a level 30 character with every twist, feat and enhancement I could think of that could boost the DC a couple years ago didn't work at all in places like epic GH wilderness and Kings Forest. I'll test more another time, especially when I know the spell has been updated, and in different places and levels.

in case anyone is wondering why I am so hung up on Snare, its because for the first time in years a ranger spell is being updated. I'm jumping all over it. it would be nice to have something else to slot for a level 2 spell and not just barkskin.

also, how big is the Snare radius? it seems pretty small. in tight hallways like LOD mobs are no problem to run through it. in open areas like the wilderness or big rooms in quests, it can be difficult to guide mobs through the Snare. maybe in tough content or Reaper it might be smart to guide mobs through it, but if you know you can just beat down the mobs with little trouble than I would question even bothering to waste the 5 sp. and the white dot can be hard to see in a sea of mobs, AOE effects going on and blended into the background. a change of color or neon lights or something?

PsychoBlonde
03-13-2018, 09:47 PM
My current list of issues/bugs on Lammania applying solely to Wildshapes:

1. Dethek Runestone is only applying +1W to items, while providing +2W if not holding a weapon.


Confirmed. I had the same problem.


4. Great Maul does not show up in your spell book, unless it is supposed to replace Maul.

It shows up on your first level spell list. Shares a cooldown with Maul.


7. 6 uses of rage is not enough at 1 minute duration. Please have it scale with constitution like barbarians.

This.


15. Not enough filigrees in the dojo to complete the Blood Feast set to test if it works with bear rage.

Yes there are, they're just split between lists 5 and 6 instead of all being on one list.

PsychoBlonde
03-13-2018, 10:01 PM
Also, the heavy armor proficiency grant is working fine.

edrein
03-13-2018, 10:19 PM
Confirmed. I had the same problem.



It shows up on your first level spell list. Shares a cooldown with Maul.



This.



Yes there are, they're just split between lists 5 and 6 instead of all being on one list.

Strange, guess I was too tired to notice Great Maul on that list.

I swear I checked every single page of the filigrees but again I was testing things with about 3 hours of sleep.

PsychoBlonde
03-13-2018, 10:21 PM
Strange, guess I was too tired to notice Great Maul on that list.

I swear I checked every single page of the filigrees but again I was testing things with about 3 hours of sleep.

I tested it, it's not applying temp hp with bear rage.

PsychoBlonde
03-13-2018, 10:28 PM
The Celestial Champion ability on Divine Crusader says "does not work in animal form" but it now works in animal form. The description needs adjustment.

PsychoBlonde
03-13-2018, 10:53 PM
also, how big is the Snare radius? it seems pretty small. in tight hallways like LOD mobs are no problem to run through it.

It's a single-target effect, so it only hits one mob per casting. It does seem to be on the smallish side.

I hit a 31 dc with my bear druid and nothing was breaking that in level 18 quests.

It basically drops a little ball like a fire trap.

SirValentine
03-14-2018, 04:52 AM
So...the multiple proposed nerfs to Druid DC casters are still in place.

Can we have more data on your tests that showed that Entangle was over-performing, like for the Monk nerfs? Was Entangle 30% better than Tentacles or Mass Hold?

Or is there some good reason to nerf something that isn't over-performing? If so, how about you tell us what it is?

Qhualor
03-14-2018, 05:38 AM
It's a single-target effect, so it only hits one mob per casting. It does seem to be on the smallish side.

I hit a 31 dc with my bear druid and nothing was breaking that in level 18 quests.

It basically drops a little ball like a fire trap.

If it had the same radius as a symbol I would be fine with that. Otherwise, except maybe in special circumstances, I still don't see a good reason to slot the spell. When you encounter 5-10 mobs at a time typically in quests, a slow casting single target snare isn't going to be very useful with a small radius and mobs saving in the 6 second time. For rangers you aren't going to be taking any feats (not that there is really any space to do it anyways) and there really isn't any enhancements to boost the DC. Raising it to 6 seconds and lowering the sp cost just isn't attractive enough for me unless there can be some real changes. Ah well, maybe next ranger pass.

Silverleafeon
03-14-2018, 01:51 PM
QUOTE


Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid

Interesting...promotes druid levels


Druids should now have 3 pet revivals a rest instead of 1

Should be enough, will mostly reincarnate


8. Natural Fighting Feat


Natural Weapon Fighting revamped. (work in progress, will change as testing progresses)

You have grown accustomed to fighting with claws, paws, and jaws. While in a Druid animal form, such as Bear or Wolf, you receive +4 to melee power, physical resistance rating and a +1 bonus to all tactic DCs. \n\nIn bear form your glancing blow damage is increased by 10%.\n\nThis feat can be taken up to three times. This feat gives no benefit to Druids in elemental or none animal forms.

Looks pretty good, need math/live test runs by melee fans.

Obviously reducing to three feats resulted in less power, but three feats fits well with other melee build thematics.
Good to remove the Power Attack requirement.

Unclear whether +30% stacks with the default 20% from wielding a two handed weapon?
Perhaps it is 30% with any weapon, and an additional +20% if the weapon automatically produces the default 20% glancing blows?


Already gave feedback on the Bear/Wolf trees in the past, will let other finish that route.


SEASONS HERALD

CORES:


Overall, many plus improvements including:

Lowered Cooldowns on SLAs

Adding Acid Type spells

+1 EARTHQUAKE DC over live version {Strength of the Solstice is located in tier four} (all caps because Quake is King)

Better Capstone than live version imho as Evocation >> Transmutation

Emergency Guard via 8*Wis = 640ish temp hp which is enough to consider using Leg Green SP bonus instead of HP bonus possibly enabling much better spell point conservation.

Immunity Breaker for Cold/Fire spells

Auto Cast of Form Spell along with Auto Shift of Season when going into Fire/Water Forms.
This yields a much quicker restart after a death, since elemental wild shapes are lost upon dying.
It also allows situational awareness of the combat field with quick form changes.

Nice HP bonus for Pets that will be taken for the spell power if for no other reason.

Beguile no longer required for SLAs, but likely will be taken just for the +1 usp per action point spent.

Various Spells being improved or fixed for bugs including Produce Flame, Word of Balance, Creeping Cold, etc..

Avoiding the +4 Wis capstone debate that would ultimately fuel a heroic enhancement debate along the lines of the Exalted Angel > Magistar Epic Destiny debate. By the way, Magistar and Draconic do not have true Innates as "Arcane study III: Passive Bonus: +50 SP and +1 to warlock, wizard, sorcerer, bard and artificer caster levels if have any levels in the class." duplicated 5x does not make an innate bundle.


All in All, nice job Torc.
Not too powerful that we might fear a nerf, but certainly helpful.
Looking forward to see the bugs polished and these changes hitting live....

Hope to see you return for Earth and Air Forms along with a huge revamp of Metamagics and rebalancing of Epic Destinies (which should not stop at level 6 minus 1 xp)....

edrein
03-14-2018, 09:34 PM
I'll admit it's been ages since I've used the bear spells as their original implementation was very 'meh' at best. That being said after messing around with the new abilities and changes, I like most of them.

Save one Enhancement change. Savage Roar is clearly supposed to replace the current Reaving Roar. And I honestly think it's a good change. That is until I actually cast Roar and saw what the spell does. 50% hate gen is fine if you're tanking. It's even fine if it was a temporary buff when you're trying to DPS. But at 20 minutes duration I'd never want to try and use Savage Roar when I know I'm about to increase my aggro by a noticeable amount as a bear DPS.

Is there any way we could get Savage Roar changed to either function like Reaving Roar in a manner of speaking? I'd prefer that once you get three stacks of Killer Instincts it could automatically proc the Roar. This way the same mechanical idea plays the same without punishing bears that aren't trying to be hate tanks.

If that's too much, might I suggest making a secondary version of the defensive stance in the tree that is instead focused for DPS bears/bearbarians, let the secondary stance prevent any form of hate gen effects from druid spells/abilities.

Pilgrim1
03-14-2018, 09:53 PM
I'll admit it's been ages since I've used the bear spells as their original implementation was very 'meh' at best. That being said after messing around with the new abilities and changes, I like most of them.

Save one Enhancement change. Savage Roar is clearly supposed to replace the current Reaving Roar. And I honestly think it's a good change. That is until I actually cast Roar and saw what the spell does. 50% hate gen is fine if you're tanking. It's even fine if it was a temporary buff when you're trying to DPS. But at 20 minutes duration I'd never want to try and use Savage Roar when I know I'm about to increase my aggro by a noticeable amount as a bear DPS.


You can drop bear form and re-enter it. That clears all form specific buffs.

edrein
03-14-2018, 11:52 PM
You can drop bear form and re-enter it. That clears all form specific buffs.

That's hardly an effective work around. And I certainly wouldn't do that with the frequency I would be casting roar in combat for the stun/damage.

Iriale
03-15-2018, 06:46 AM
If it had the same radius as a symbol I would be fine with that. Otherwise, except maybe in special circumstances, I still don't see a good reason to slot the spell. When you encounter 5-10 mobs at a time typically in quests, a slow casting single target snare isn't going to be very useful with a small radius and mobs saving in the 6 second time. For rangers you aren't going to be taking any feats (not that there is really any space to do it anyways) and there really isn't any enhancements to boost the DC. Raising it to 6 seconds and lowering the sp cost just isn't attractive enough for me unless there can be some real changes. Ah well, maybe next ranger pass.
I asked repeatedly in the previous thread that Torc improved the casting of Snare, because it is slow and uncomfortable. I did not think their effects were bad, but their casting, which should be analogous to Hold Person. It's perfect that it only affects one objective (although if in the future devs create a version Snare mass lv 9, it would be great, druids don't have so many high level spells). But my problem with the spell is that it is little practical to cast in combat

No one else seconded my request, so it was ignored. My English is not good either. Please, also ask for an improvement to the cast of Snare. A change in this sense is more necessary than in its effects.

Iriale
03-15-2018, 07:12 AM
Druid Pass - The following changes are up on Lammania. This is not the "entire" pass, but a lions share of it. Some spells have yet to be modified such as call lightning and storm of vengeance.
Good changes in general. I love the removing of death penalty for pets, now the pet at least will be used.


6. Specific Spell Changes
Ty for the changes. Only two requests: snare needs more an improvement in his casting than his effects. Please, try using it in combat. It is slow and uncomfortable of cast.

I can't test if Creeping cold and Greater creeping remove Niac's or not. Can u test this, please? (old bug this)


Nature's Wellspring: The effects of your shillelagh are doubled. +1 max caster level in your active season
I suggest you to swap beguile and the x2 shillelagh of Nature's Wellspring. This effect (x2 shillelagh) is only useful in the first 3 levels for a druid caster, and should be easily accessible to a melee druid. Level 6 is too late for this effect to be useful. At level 6 a druid caster is full caster, and it is a bit late for a melee druid that needs invest first in melee trees. Beguile not always work, but it will be fine as core paired with the +1 max caster level in the active season



6. Hierophant: You are wise and skilled in the art of wielding divine magic to summon aid and change the world around you. +2 Wisdom +2 Con +10 Universal spell power. Your Conjuration and Evocation spells gain +1 DC, +1 caster level and +1 max caster level. (update – decreased wis/con bonus and mass caster levels)
I really don't like the +2 Wisdom +2 Con, should be +4 Wis, +0 CON



Autumn Leaves: Toggle ability: Leaves always seem to blow around the druid. Grants feather fall, +2 dodge and 5% proc chance on anyone hitting you in melee to be knocked down by a blast of air. Costs: 15 SP Lasts until death or toggled off AP COST: 1
Love this. Very flavorous


Spring Resurgence: Fill an ally with the vitality of spring. When that ally falls below 50% hit points, that ally and any other allies near him are healed by 20d6
positive energy, and receive a +2 primal bonus to attack rolls. (Lasts 5 minutes or until triggered.) (Activation Cost: [8/6/4] Spell Points.)
Cooldown: [8/4/2] seconds) AP COST: 1 (new – lowered cooldown to make buffing party easier)
ty for the lower cooldown!


Strength of the Solstice: +1 to the save DC's of your Evocation and Conjuration spells AP COST: 2
In tier 4. Very nice, ty


Crown of Summer: A target of your choice is filled with the light and vitality of summer. That target gains a 15% enhancement bonus to Healing Amplification, and 10 melee power and 5 ranged power. (Activation Cost: 1 Spell Point. Cooldown: 6 seconds) Only one target can have the crown at a time. AP COST: 1
mmm have u lowered the healing amplification, or it is a text oversight? (It was raised when the healing amplification changes)


Master of the Elements: Gain 5/10/15 spell power in your season. Passive rank 3: If the character has 17 druid levels they gain anger of the noonday sun or mantle of icy when changing in the appropriate elemental form. This effect costs 8 spells points when it occurs.
Flavorous, like it


Word of Balance: Spell Like Ability: Word of Balance (Cost: [12/9/6] SP. Cooldown: [20/15/10] seconds) AP COST: 1 Requires: Salt Ray (will fix bug with this spell getting blocked by spell resistance)
ty for removing the spell resistance. Seriously. Word of balance is a very thematic spell for druid.


Armor of Winter: Gain 8 times your wisdom in temporary Hit points that lasts 60 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds, Sp Cost: 12) AP COST: 2 (new – moved spell power and allow it to work in any elemental form/season)
Wow! This is great

I can't test in game until Saturday, but I am dying for see this in game. Very good changes, ty, Torc

unbongwah
03-15-2018, 10:37 AM
Ghost Wolf: Requires wolf form. Activate, gain 35% incorporeal defense for 20 seconds, Cooldown 60 seconds. SP Cost: 15 Passive: Gain ghost touch while in wolf form to your melee attacks AP COST: 2


Is this supposed to display a buff icon when used? Because it appears to activate properly, but there's no buff icon to tell you it's running. I only tested in the dojo, so I don't know if you're actually getting 35% incorporeal.

Silverleafeon
03-15-2018, 01:15 PM
Forgot to check D&D lore first.

Never mind, imperfect brainstorming.

I do not want to go against D&D lore.



;;;;;;




[QUOTE=Iriale;6078287Good changes in general. I love the removing of death penalty for pets, now the pet at least will be used.

+1 Yes, fire and forget philosophy will make Pets more welcome.
I know a good player who casts SM 6 before entering high reaper rooms just for cannon fodder.


I can't test if Creeping cold and Greater creeping remove Niac's or not. Can u test this, please? (old bug this)

Please do test.


I suggest you to swap beguile and the x2 shillelagh of Nature's Wellspring. This effect (x2 shillelagh) is only useful in the first 3 levels for a druid caster, and should be easily accessible to a melee druid. Level 6 is too late for this effect to be useful. At level 6 a druid caster is full caster, and it is a bit late for a melee druid that needs invest first in melee trees. Beguile not always work, but it will be fine as core paired with the +1 max caster level in the active season

This seems very reasonable and logical.
I would be agreeable to this change.


I really don't like the +2 Wisdom +2 Con, should be +4 Wis, +0 CON

I prefer +4 Wis as well, but this will lead to Wizard and Sorcerer Capstones becoming +4 int and +4 cha.
But that could be a good thing to promote pure builds.


mmm have u lowered the healing amplification, or it is a text oversight? (It was raised when the healing amplification changes)

Yes, it is 30 on live, it even says so in the buff bar.


ty for removing the spell resistance. Seriously. Word of balance is a very thematic spell for druid.

Indeed, thank you!

Iriale
03-15-2018, 02:36 PM
[color=red]I would like to suggest reviewing all Druid Transmutation Spells to see if any need moving to Evocation or Conjuration.
{Note that it is obvious the original designers had some fears of Druid being over powerful and spread the Schools improperly.}

I feel that this will address any concerns over the removal of Transmutation Bonuses to the Season's Herald tree.


Entangle
Quench
Snare
Spike Growth
Ice Flowers
Harrowing Pack

all those spells are transmutacion in pnp, Silver. I don't think that is needed to change their school. there is lore reasons for transmutation school. For example, web create a web, but with snare you make a snare that functions as a magic trap from any supple vine, a thong, or a rope (aka, change a thing, it is a transmutation)

SirValentine
03-15-2018, 04:22 PM
I would like to suggest reviewing all Druid Transmutation Spells to see if any need moving to Evocation or Conjuration.
{Note that it is obvious the original designers had some fears of Druid being over powerful and spread the Schools improperly.}

I feel that this will address any concerns over the removal of Transmutation Bonuses to the Season's Herald tree.


Transmutation is not Evocation. That's not "improper".

I do not feel that ignoring lore and nerfing an entire spell school completely out of existence would be an appropriate way to address the proposed nerf to it's DCs.

If they're not over-performing, then just don't nerf them at all!

edrein
03-15-2018, 10:54 PM
After testing for myself, I have to agree wolf single target damage is straight down the dumps now. However, I noticed a small faint glimmer of hope when I used Double Daggers from Vistani and did infact give myself offhand strikes.

Please for the love of all that's good and holy, make the wolf version of Natural Fighting provide 10% offhand chance similar to the 10% glancing blows. Base wolves will get to 30%, multiclassed/vistani-pures will get to 50% maximum. This is a solid compromise to the now neutered single target damage equation for wolves.

edrein
03-15-2018, 11:06 PM
Additionally is a technical limitation the reason we cannot have shield bash procs (effectively functioning as offhand strikes) for wildshapes? Given the internal 1 second CD, I don't really see how this could be an OP situation.

Overall; I feel like you took a step in the right direction by using weapon stats. Although there are some funny interactions caused by that (such as Volcano Slash/other Legendary Dreadnaught weapon attacks working but non-animated attacks such as Vistani's rapid Attack don't work) and a slight bad spot.

As I've stated in my list of bugs and issues, currently shield mastery is working and applying it's benefits. Is this intentional and a repeal against the initial stance against this per our feedback?

Might I suggest allowing Shield Bashes to work if technically possible? The reason for this is from both a DPS and utility perspective. Shield's aren't very DPS oriented and infact they required the Vistani treatment in the form of Vanguard to bring up their DPS value for Sword and Board builds. From the utility side of things almost every update post Thunderforged has included a wooden or druid compatible shield most of which include Bashing enchantments. This gives more life and use to shields for druids. Shields are no longer a sort of secondary wasteful option for DPS druids. Unless Shield Mastery is intentionally working with animal forms. Then there isn't a massive DPS loss for defense gain.

However, as things stand. From my playback and tinkering. I see absolutely no reason to forgo using a two handed weapon on any animal form druid, even tanks if Shield Mastery is nixed. Gaining 1.5x your stat to damage is just too delicious to give up even on a tank.

Currently Dethek Runestone, which was my only example of not losing DPS by forgoing a two hander, is not providing the +2W it's supposed to. This is literally the only shield as is that isn't a liability for druids.

There is no DPS-oriented orb in the game, and you cannot slot a Dragon's Edged thunderforged orb on a druid due to druidic oath.

So currently the only option if Shield Mastery is not WAI is to use a two hander.

I formally suggest the following options:
1. Allow shield bashes.
2. Allow offhand magical effects on equipment to apply to the mainhand while wildshaped, similar to throwers using an offhand for procs.
3. Allow Shield Mastery to work with animal forms.

Kza
03-16-2018, 01:02 AM
Plz be Sure uptime on t5 hitpoints really is 60s. Its lower right now, like 30s.

Plz add transmutation dc at all places there you have + Evo and con.

Plz change capstone to +4 + 0

——//
I think druid casters will be really fun and good! But absolutely not
Op. Warlocks way stronger solo. Clerics and souls on par for groups.

Serms like druids will be in a nice spot! :-)

(This only as a caster druid and in my perspective skulls 1-5)

(Did any test If you get heavy armor prof in ele form btw?)

edrein
03-16-2018, 04:19 AM
Not entirely druid exclusive, but I figure I should repost this here as well.


Not sure if this is the proper place to make the suggestion, but given the bleed through with the systems changes in general. Might I make a suggestion for new Legendary feats?

Scion of Shavarath:
You gain +2 Healing Hands charges if you are an Aasimar.
Add 2d20 Evil damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
Gain; Blade Barrier SLA.

Scion of Irian:
You gain +2 Healing Hands charges if you are an Aasimar.
Add 1d20 Light damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
Melee, ranged, and offensive spell damage have a chance to proc a burst of blinding light. (Similar to Brazen Brilliance on Echo of The Sunsword.)

Scion of Lamannia:
You gain +1W when in a wildshape form.
Druid Mantle spells are doubled in effect.
Melee, ranged, and offensive spell damage deal 1d10 random elemental damage and have a chance to proc an AoE burst of random elemental damage. (Scales with the appropriate Spell Power)

Additionally a level 24 Master feat for Shapeshifting would be nice as well.

Master of Wildshapes:
You gain +1W when in a wildshape form.
If you are in a bear form; gain the effects of +20 PRR and MRR, +10 natural armor, and +15 melee power.
If you are in a wolf form; gain the effects of +2 sneak attack die, +10 reflex saves, and improved deception effect on attacks.

SerPounce
03-16-2018, 07:11 AM
I guess Lamania is down now?

All of the SP costs and cooldowns of the animal attacks need to be looked at.

Right now animal druids are hemorrhaging SP like a sorcerer and they don't have the pool for it. Essence of nature isn't close to enough to make up for it (and doesn't work on bear at all). I'd like to see the animal attacks being more or less "revenue neutral" with the temp SP and the bulk of your modest SP pool at your disposal for "real spells."

The cool downs are really long also. Jaws of winter is a centerpiece for the wolf, but the cooldown is prohibitive. CD should be no longer than 12 seconds which would put it in line with other tactics. Same with Alpha Strike: Why does the druid cleave cost SP and have over twice the CD as a regular cleave? 5 second CD max (I would go 3 or 4;it is a T5 ability after all. Supreme cleave is T3 and has a 3 second CD), and either no or very low SP. You can have it share a CD with cleave or great cleave if you don't want to many cleaves available.

SerPounce
03-16-2018, 07:19 AM
However, as things stand. From my playback and tinkering. I see absolutely no reason to forgo using a two handed weapon on any animal form druid, even tanks if Shield Mastery is nixed. Gaining 1.5x your stat to damage is just too delicious to give up even on a tank.



Yup, with the current implementation you need to use a 2 hander if melee DPS is something you want to do at all. As I said in the other thread, if 2 handers aren't going to be the only viable option then the off hand has to contribute DPS in some way (like through shield mastery feats and LSM destiny ability). An extra slot for a few standard gear attributes doesn't make up for the DPS unless DPS is a very low priority for your build.

Now maybe that's by design. If you want to DPS you have to invest in a martial feat, and you don't get your off hand slot. I don't think that's a terrible design decision, but it is a bit of a newb trap since druids don't come with proficiency in the weapons they ought to be using.

*Note, I don't want the balance here to be individual items like the runestone shield. That's just one shield in a rarely run raid. Basic system mechanics shouldn't' be balanced with individual obscure items.

edrein
03-16-2018, 08:03 AM
Yup, with the current implementation you need to use a 2 hander if melee DPS is something you want to do at all. As I said in the other thread, if 2 handers aren't going to be the only viable option then the off hand has to contribute DPS in some way (like through shield mastery feats and LSM destiny ability). An extra slot for a few standard gear attributes doesn't make up for the DPS unless DPS is a very low priority for your build.

Now maybe that's by design. If you want to DPS you have to invest in a martial feat, and you don't get your off hand slot. I don't think that's a terrible design decision, but it is a bit of a newb trap since druids don't come with proficiency in the weapons they ought to be using.

*Note, I don't want the balance here to be individual items like the runestone shield. That's just one shield in a rarely run raid. Basic system mechanics shouldn't' be balanced with individual obscure items.

My referencing to Dethek Runestone is mostly because as it stands, it's the only shield in the game that isn't a direct 100% DPS loss for an animal druid. But when it comes to druids I hate to say it; they do in fact have to balance mechanics around individual obscure items simply because druids have gotten very unique ones that could easily break balance. No one seems to be bringing up items such as Hide of the Fallen. Sure on live it's only +10 damage, but that's base damage before multipliers. With the new system using actual weapon die, that's a rather noticable (albeit not nearly enough) bump in dps. I was testing it on Lamannia and kept silent about it since most folk forgot the cloak existed. It was only a good 30-40 damage difference on non-crits, but every little bit helps.

Now whether or not the devs want to facelift these individual druid-based items is up to them. But they do have to be considered in the equation, and I almost certainly feel as if the devs keep track of this. It's probably one of the major reasons they refuse to buff the majority on the account of the obscure.

In my example on shield bashes, Dethek Runestone doesn't have such. Nor does it have a nice crit profile or damage profile compared to say Devil's Defense, Terminus, or Best Defense for the sake of DPS. However assuming a druid snags up Improved Shield Bash for that base 20% chance, that's a small bump in their DPS.

It's not nearly as much as the bump Vistani's Double Daggers provides or Half Elf Tempest or Shintao's Deft Strikes. But you need to consider these sorts of things.

I think giving druids either or would help a lot. Shield Mastery line with all the amenities helps in making shields viable offhands. Allowing Shield Bashes on top of that helps with addressing the DPS issues.

Allowing Offhand for wolves also helps them greatly. 30% offhand via Natural Fighting line. Then let them pick up the rest via multiclassing or vistani, the same situation that bears find themselves in for Glancing Blow damage. It's a fair trade for removing the access and use of the direct combat styles. You remove the non-WAI/exploit nature and instead put down a solid basis for what can and will work. You reduce and remove a great deal of the original overperforming symptoms, no more 75% attack speed with 80-100% offhand and god know's how much doublestrike above a permanent 50%. Instead with the changes we've seen you won't have that original 18% doublestrike bonus. You'll get 30% offhand as a normal druid. If you want to hit 50% you slap on vistani, half elf, or multiclass. From there you have Perfect TWF for offhand doublestrike chance as well as Aasimar Scourge Pastlife.

You lose some of the original flavor, but you bridge the gap between the here and now and the future. If it's over performing then fix it later during the next round of melee balance passes.

SerPounce
03-16-2018, 08:09 AM
Now whether or not the devs want to facelift these individual druid-based items is up to them. But they do have to be considered in the equation, and I almost certainly feel as if the devs keep trac

Sure, you have to consider the effects of items as they exist, but I don't understand why you would buff what's already the best druid shield as a way of making S&B more attractive for druids. If anything you would want to mitigate the effects of that particular item while making S&B more viable generally.

SerPounce
03-16-2018, 08:14 AM
Another random note: Please consider adding nightshield to the druid spell list or adding some other form of magic missile immunity for quality of life purposes. You can't use wands or scrolls in animal form so it's going to be a real PitA to switch out of form and whip that shield wand every few minutes so you don't get pummeled by the absurd number of magic missiles that fly around in reaper.

edrein
03-16-2018, 08:17 AM
Sure, you have to consider the effects of items as they exist, but I don't understand why you would buff what's already the best druid shield as a way of making S&B more attractive for druids. If anything you would want to mitigate the effects of that particular item while making S&B more viable generally.

That shield is only the best in slot if you're using the S&B with the intent to DPS. Let alone with the concept that Shield Mastery is going to remain working with druids.

If shield bashing is allowed, then over half of the named shields in epic levels become viable options for druids. Shields no longer become relegated to heal amp Wall of Woods, the rare Dethek Runestone (since no one runs the raid), or the odd cannith crafted gear.

If an offhand weapon's enchanted effects are enabled into your damage calculation, then suddenly carrying another weapon is viable and worthwhile beyond my earlier example of using Double Daggers from Vistani just to snag the 20% offhand proc.

I'd like to see Dethek Runestone buffed to provide a slight parity with other endgame items as far as the damage reduction is concerned, and I certainly want to see the +2W effect fixed for live. But I'm more hoping that I can convince the devs to try the shield bashes, offhand enchants, or any other option first hand. Or atleast explain why they've decided the road best traveled is to kill build diversity and force the two handed meta.

elvesunited
03-16-2018, 10:59 AM
I managed "Essence of Shrike" with a wolf though I almost never cast "Jaws of Winter". ( To costly for +6W and an effect that would never go off) I believe that my crit range was 18-20. ( wolf criticals being broken ) So even with lower attack speed, loss of off hand attacks, and loss of doublestrike, Wolves should be able to compensate with higher crit ranges such as:

Falchion can get you 15-20. 14-20 if you multiclass and go Tier 5 Kensei.
You can also get auto-crit attacks from Kensei Tier 5 or Half-orc Tier 4.

Comparing a half-orc nature warrior two hander Vs a Vistani dagger and shield I found the half-orc two hander is doing about ( 9 + 2*W + 1/2 str bonus ) more points damage. The Vistani compensates with more defense. I suspect adding fighter levels and kensei could pump that even higher.

Ravenloft broke me. I will never again build a character without either the ability to cast a magic missile protection spell ( like Nightshield ) or the UMD to cast it from a scroll. ( and really it only takes one point of UMD and some items )

Alpha strike used to do more damage but they're nerfing it so it only does that level of damage if you are holding the equivalent of a legendary ravenloft weapon. It still doublestrikes which cleaves don't.

Nachomammashouse
03-16-2018, 04:02 PM
Master of the Elements: Gain 5/10/15 spell power in your season. Passive rank 3: If the character has 17 druid levels they gain anger of the noonday sun or mantle of icy when changing in the appropriate elemental form. This effect costs 8 spells points when it occurs.


Mantle and Anger automatically applying as a timed buff when entering elemental form will not be much benefit to those who stay in one form. If we are changing forms often then it will be nice but I think most caster druids stay in the same form 90% of the time. Instead of being a timed buff, I suggest a permanent effect while in ele form when Master of the Elements is taken.

Silverleafeon
03-16-2018, 07:01 PM
Mantle and Anger automatically applying as a timed buff when entering elemental form will not be much benefit to those who stay in one form. If we are changing forms often then it will be nice but I think most caster druids stay in the same form 90% of the time. Instead of being a timed buff, I suggest a permanent effect while in ele form when Master of the Elements is taken.

Every time you die, and in reaper that is fairly often, one loses certain stances including body forms.

So when one dies, you have to apply elemental form, cast Mantle/Anger, cast DW & FoM, along with Rezzing others and healing and trying to drop new Quakes while mobs swarm around you...

Silverleafeon
03-16-2018, 07:05 PM
Another random note: Please consider adding nightshield to the druid spell list or adding some other form of magic missile immunity for quality of life purposes. You can't use wands or scrolls in animal form so it's going to be a real PitA to switch out of form and whip that shield wand every few minutes so you don't get pummeled by the absurd number of magic missiles that fly around in reaper.

I ended up crafting 4ish Legendary Greensteel Nightshield clickies that last about 20 minutes each.
They are very cheap to make ~ mostly tier one and one or two teir two

You are likely to have a 2+ piece Legendary Greensteel set, or you can swap out after you get to level 26.

Hipparan
03-16-2018, 10:57 PM
One thing I noticed on Lammania is that Nature's Defense works while not in Bear form, but enhancements that improve Nature's Defense does not work. Is this WAI?

Claver
03-17-2018, 04:51 AM
I suggest you to swap beguile and the x2 shillelagh of Nature's Wellspring. This effect (x2 shillelagh) is only useful in the first 3 levels for a druid caster, and should be easily accessible to a melee druid. Level 6 is too late for this effect to be useful. At level 6 a druid caster is full caster, and it is a bit late for a melee druid that needs invest first in melee trees. Beguile not always work, but it will be fine as core paired with the +1 max caster level in the active season

This seems very reasonable and logical.
I would be agreeable to this change.



I have mixed feelings about implementing this suggestion

This would certainly help Henshin Mystics and Thief Acrobats who might be willing to consider splashing 1 levels of druid for double the weapon dice damage of their staff. Henshin mystic staff users could use the help following the nerf to melee power

On the other hand, I sometimes splash a few levels of druid for increase spell crit chance along with beguile. I would not want to have to take 6 levels of druid just to get beguile

In a perfect world, Summer/Winter form would be a multi-selector at Core 1, Super Shillelagh would be at Core 2 (level 3), and Core 3 (level 6) would offer a bonus to all summons, pets and hirelings...say +100% fortification and stacking +6 to all stats

unbongwah
03-17-2018, 03:44 PM
One thing I noticed on Lammania is that Nature's Defense works while not in Bear form, but enhancements that improve Nature's Defense does not work. Is this WAI?
IIUC, the Improved Nature's Defense enhancements should work in any form, but the Ursa Protector bonuses are bear-only. Do you remember which you were using?

edrein
03-18-2018, 02:22 AM
After dwelling on it for a while. Can we please remove Spirit Renewed from the bear tree? If you want to keep this ability please give it to the wolves.

Give bears something genuinely useful given they are supposed to be raging. Either a strong regeneration like Accelerated Metabolism (albeit with better scaling so it's not completely negated by Reaper) or an 'charge' based ability like One Spirit.

In fact the One Spirit route is the best in my opinion. Make it require three stacks of Killer Instincts with a 15-20 second cooldown. Same 400HP heal with melee power scaling. This builds upon the mechanics created lower in the tree and makes a solid T5 option for self healing while raged. As currently the rage blocks you from casting self heals.

edrein
03-18-2018, 02:27 AM
Another suggestion of mine is to also go back and make a minor adjustment to the following Cleric Domains:

Give Animal Domain and the Elemental Domains full Wilderness lore progression. IE: 2 wilderness lore feats at level 2, and 1 every subsequent level.
Give the Destruction and Strength domains half Wilderness lore progression similar to bards. IE: 1 wilderness lore feat at level 2, and 1 every other level. Maximum of 10.


If at all possible to edit into religious lore feats as well. Give Vulkoor and Silvanus the half Wilderness lore progression similar to bards to reflect the knowledge of their patron deities with a maximum of 20 wilderness lore in case of domain bleed over. As this opens further multiclass options for FVS and Clerics as well.

edrein
03-18-2018, 02:34 AM
One of the last things I feel like is really missing from the trees is the most obvious.

That's wisdom to hit and damage.

However, I think each tree should have a manner of handling stats to hit/damage.

Wolves should get the option of Strength, Wisdom, or Dexterity. Bears should get the option of Strength, Wisdom, or Constitution. Please consider adding multiselectors for these options similar to Different Tack. Where as caster's have the option of just slapping on Flameblade, although it needs to be updated to scale into both epics and legendary levels.

Bonus points if we could actually get a Wisdom based tactics bonus clickie, but I won't push my luck.

However, please consider the request as druids are currently the most stat taxed and gear taxed class if you want to try and actually be an appropriate jack-of-all-trades. And even a focused druid will find that they are still rather taxed as well.

edrein
03-18-2018, 02:40 AM
A level 21 wildshape feat might also be nice.

Similar to the Vorpal Strikes monk feat, this could provide either Manslayer as an effect similar to the various gold seal animal companions. Or merely a mirror of Improved Martial Arts to work with druids. An Improved Natural Fighting could also work and of course a Perfect Natural Fighting feat would also be a welcomed edition.

Aree_Soothsayer
03-18-2018, 09:25 AM
No balance pass on the Companions yet. Fooo.

Hipparan
03-18-2018, 10:11 AM
IIUC, the Improved Nature's Defense enhancements should work in any form, but the Ursa Protector bonuses are bear-only. Do you remember which you were using?

Ah I see now that the Ursa Protector HP % bonus says in the description that it only works in bear form. However, I also had the increased PRR/MRR from the tier 1 enhancement. I didn't notice any increased PRR/MRR though other than the +8 from Nature's Defense. The Improved Nature's Defense enhancement does not say in the description that it needs Bear form on to function.

Hipparan
03-18-2018, 10:12 AM
A level 21 wildshape feat might also be nice.

Similar to the Vorpal Strikes monk feat, this could provide either Manslayer as an effect similar to the various gold seal animal companions. Or merely a mirror of Improved Martial Arts to work with druids. An Improved Natural Fighting could also work and of course a Perfect Natural Fighting feat would also be a welcomed edition.

I really like this idea. Vorpal Strikes is a favorite on my monks and I would love to use something like that on a melee Druid (although I usually use primarily caster druids).

Dalsheel
03-19-2018, 05:33 AM
A level 21 wildshape feat might also be nice.

Similar to the Vorpal Strikes monk feat, this could provide either Manslayer as an effect similar to the various gold seal animal companions. Or merely a mirror of Improved Martial Arts to work with druids. An Improved Natural Fighting could also work and of course a Perfect Natural Fighting feat would also be a welcomed edition.

This is a great proposal. 1 Epic and 1 Destiny feat would be great and it's only fair since other melee builds have these options.

/signed

Silverleafeon
03-19-2018, 01:19 PM
/signed for animal & elemental Epic Wildshape Feats

/signed for Perfect Natural Fighting Feat

SirValentine
03-20-2018, 09:24 AM
Still no reply to the multiple comments in any of the 3 threads about the multiple caster Druid nerfs.

- Spell Pen enhancement removed
- Save debuff enhancement removed
- DC enhancement had Transmutation removed
- Capstone DC & Spell Pen removed completely for Transmutation, and lowered for Conjuration

Between the changes & removals, we end up with up to:

-5 to DCs and -5 to Spell Penetration of Transmutation spells
-3 to DCs and -4 to Spell Penetration of Conjuration spells
-2 to DCs and -3 to Spell Penetration of Enchantment spells
-2 to DCs and -3 to Spell Penetration of Necromancy spells
-2 to Spell Penetration of Evocation spells (no change to DCs)
-2 to DCs of Abjuration spells (none subject to Spell Pen)

Most "class passes" have buffed classes. Most nerfs have been for clear balance reasons of over-performing stuff.

So what's up here? Are you guys even going to acknowledge this massive set of nerfs? Give any reasoning for it? Stop implementing it? Because I'd much rather just keep the current Season's Herald than your proposed mega-nerfed version.

Gargoyle69
03-20-2018, 08:07 PM
Torc, 2 questions please:

Question 1:

T1 Season's Herald, Shared Spirit: Your wolf pet gains 3/6/10% bonus to hps. Passive: You gain 1/2/3 spell power. AP COST: 1

Do you think that 3 SP is balanced around a cost of 3 AP (the pet hps are pretty irrelevant to most people) ? Can this be bumped to say 3/3/4 ? Heck even 2/2/3 ?

Question 2:

T4 Season's Herald, Spring Resurgence: Fill an ally with the vitality of spring. When that ally falls below 50% hit points, that ally and any other allies near him are healed by 20d6
positive energy, and receive a +2 primal bonus to attack rolls. (Lasts 5 minutes or until triggered.) (Activation Cost: [8/6/4] Spell Points.)
Cooldown: [8/4/2] seconds) AP COST: 1 (new – lowered cooldown to make buffing party easier)

Any word on having the bug with this ability fixed ? If the bug is fixed then this will be great, if not, it's still terrible.

Thanks for the great work so far :-)

MasterKernel
03-21-2018, 03:07 AM
Creeping Doom will now do acid damage and benefit form acid spell power. Each character can have their own copy of this dot on a target.

And what about monsters that use this spell (Druids in Ravenloft for example). Will it be the acid version for them too ? That will add spells like "Neutralize Poison" into the long and abandoned "Useless spells in DDO" list… :-\

edrein
03-21-2018, 04:25 AM
And what about monsters that use this spell (Druids in Ravenloft for example). Will it be the acid version for them too ? That will add spells like "Neutralize Poison" into the long and abandoned "Useless spells in DDO" list… :-\

Atleast there's Vale and removing trog stench, right?

Tilomere
04-06-2018, 11:42 AM
When I think about swashbuckling as a standard, it gets the following:

Bard Level 1 charm humanoids buffed by reaper, attack speed from SWF, light healing nerfed by reaper, easily broken AoE non-helpless CC from bard song
Bard Level 2 AoE double cleave with enhanced crit from En Pointe
Bard Level 3 Crit and crit multiplier from swashbuckling
Bard Level 4 AoE helpless CC from soundburst, suggestion (charm on most things) buffed by reaper
Bard Level 4, Character Level 9 strong healing from heal scrolls regardless of multiclassing due to charisma/umd class/W&S mastery from bard 4

------------------------

Animal form druids get the following:
Druid Level 1 charm animals buffed by reaper, light healing nerfed by reaper, AoE movement slow from entangle (wisdom based only)
Druid Level 2 attack speed from wolf form
Druid Level 3 Defensive stance, to make up for CC being weaker
Druid Level 5 AoE blind from sleet storm
Druid Level 11, Character Level 12 strong healing from jaws of ice with NW Tier 5
Druid Level 12 Crit multiplier melee power from tier 5 in lieu of crit range
Druid Level 5 Character Level 12 double cleave NW Tier 5 Alpha Strike
Druid Level 13 strong healing from regenerate druid 13
Druid Level 17 AoE helpless CC from snow slide

Everything a druid gets spread out over 17 levels and 35 AP and T5 NW and 6 ap in NP a swashbuckling bard "standard" gets in 4 levels with 8 AP. Druids however, never get the charms of a bard. Sure by epics with epic ward gutting charms they are probably both going to be the same, but leveling through heroics, there is just no way they are going to even be close to equal, especially in reaper.

Because of the high druid requirements for crit multiplier(druid 12) and strong healing (druid 13), and loss of W&S mastery and inability to use scrolls in animal form, you can't multiclass for say AoE helpless (druid 17) with say soundburst to bring this closer to swashbuckler standard (level 4 AoE helpless CC) without putting those other core abilities swashbucklers get at with 4 bard levels out of reach until the end of heroics.