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Blupanda
01-04-2018, 06:39 AM
I am currently playing as a Halfling paladin (dual wiedling + thrown weapons) at the moment, and I notice that the Halfling has some nice sneak attack bonuses in the race enhancements tree. So I am wondering some things:

1) Will my characters' sneak attacks work if an enemy is attacking my hireling instead of me? Or does it have to be another player, instead of a hireling?

2) Does the entire enemy mob need to be attacking my hireling for sneak attack to work? Or just the specific enemy I am attacking, even if another enemy is attacking me?

3) Does equipment have any effect on sneak attacks? I know that halflings are good with using dual-wielding two weapons, as well as thrown weapons. Does it make any difference with weapon type I sneak attack with?

Thanks in advance! :)

gwonbush
01-04-2018, 06:54 AM
Sneak attack applies to all attacks on a target that is not currently targeting you. Hireling, summon, just hasn't noticed you yet, they all work. You can also sneak attack monsters that are targeting you in other ways, such as by making them helpless (via stunning blow/dire charge/etc.), bluffing them (via bluff skill, improved feint, some deception items) or some other ways to induce sneak attack such as a Monk's Unbalancing Strike.

Do note that some monsters are immune/resist sneak attacks. Undead, Elementals (not including Mephits), Oozes and most Constructs have 100% Fortification and don't take sneak attack damage or critical hit damage without having abilities that reduce/ignore their fortification. Some boss monsters also have high fortification that needs to be reduced for the party to deal full damage to them.

So to answer your questions succinctly:

1)It works with any distraction

2)You can have others attack you

3)There are items that increase the amount of damage you do with sneak attack (Keyword is deception). Beyond that, the best way to maximize sneak attack damage is to improve the rate that you attack, since every hit (including grazing hits) gets the bonus damage. Do note that you have to be within 30 feet (more through certain enhancements) to apply sneak attack damage if you do it at a range.

Tom116
01-04-2018, 06:54 AM
I am currently playing as a Halfling paladin (dual wiedling + thrown weapons) at the moment, and I notice that the Halfling has some nice sneak attack bonuses in the race enhancements tree. So I am wondering some things:

1) Will my characters' sneak attacks work if an enemy is attacking my hireling instead of me? Or does it have to be another player, instead of a hireling?

2) Does the entire enemy mob need to be attacking my hireling for sneak attack to work? Or just the specific enemy I am attacking, even if another enemy is attacking me?

3) Does equipment have any effect on sneak attacks? I know that halflings are good with using dual-wielding two weapons, as well as thrown weapons. Does it make any difference with weapon type I sneak attack with?

Thanks in advance! :)

1- Yes, as long as the enemy is not actively attacking you ("agro'd"), SA damage will apply. There is a range limit on sneak damage though, so you can't be too far from the enemy while using thrown/ranged weapons. It can be increased (and even eliminated) through some enhancements, but that is something to keep an eye on :)

2- Any and all enemies not attacking you can be damaged with sneak attack, even if others are attacking you :)

3- Yes and no. Sneak attack goes off on hit, so attacking faster (dual wielding, Single Weapon Fighting, repeating crossbows, specific throwing weapon builds) will do more damage. There's also a sneak attack enchantment you can find on equipment that increases your damage and to-hit values on sneak attack. Deception/Improved Deception items are also handy as they bluff your opponent once in a while, and while bluffed they are vulnerable to sneak attack :)

Blupanda
01-04-2018, 07:15 AM
Awesome! Looks like sneak attacks are very useful in most combat situations, so I will be investing in sneak attack points in Halfling Enhancement tree, using my hireling to help me achieve sneak attacks. Thanks for your replies! Much appreciated ! :D :D

unbongwah
01-04-2018, 11:22 AM
I am currently playing as a Halfling paladin (dual wiedling + thrown weapons)
That is certainly an...unusual combo.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak_attack

Short version: you will get SAs when your target is either attacking someone else (doesn't matter if it's another player, hireling, pet, etc.) OR you have procced an effect which renders them vulnerable (e.g., blindness, Bluff, Deception).

korgzz_bloodaxe
01-04-2018, 04:18 PM
Awesome! Looks like sneak attacks are very useful in most combat situations, so I will be investing in sneak attack points in Halfling Enhancement tree, using my hireling to help me achieve sneak attacks. Thanks for your replies! Much appreciated ! :D :D

edit: Just saw you are running a throwing weapon build. This potentially invalidates some of my arguments below. Although I still tend to think those points would be better spent in VKF or Sacred Defender (for the stances if you don't already have them).

I caution against this. 6 points gives you one sneak attack die (1-6 damage), 11 gives 2 and 16 gives 3. You have Knight of the Chalice which gives far more than this and the damage is not dependent on any prerequisites. 6 points is a lot for one damage die and any more than that is likely to start impacting your ability to go deep in more than 1 of your paladin trees. The second issue is that most of the points you spend in the halfling tree to qualify for sneak damage are wasted points. Paladins already get fear immunity and the dragonmark focus is not required as paladin already get lay on hands/heal spells.

Blupanda
01-04-2018, 06:49 PM
edit: Just saw you are running a throwing weapon build. This potentially invalidates some of my arguments below. Although I still tend to think those points would be better spent in VKF or Sacred Defender (for the stances if you don't already have them).

I caution against this. 6 points gives you one sneak attack die (1-6 damage), 11 gives 2 and 16 gives 3. You have Knight of the Chalice which gives far more than this and the damage is not dependent on any prerequisites. 6 points is a lot for one damage die and any more than that is likely to start impacting your ability to go deep in more than 1 of your paladin trees. The second issue is that most of the points you spend in the halfling tree to qualify for sneak damage are wasted points. Paladins already get fear immunity and the dragonmark focus is not required as paladin already get lay on hands/heal spells.

Hmm I see. Should I focus on Paladin skill trees instead of halfling racial points? I now kinda regret choosing a halfling, perhaps it would be good for me to ignore halfling racial skills? My halfling dual wields, but can switch weapons to throwing hammers when enemies are far away.

Moco2112
01-05-2018, 01:14 AM
you should play exactly what and how you wanna play. don't get discouraged just because your pc isn't uber. if you like him and are having fun, that's the only thing that counts. i have a weak druid/rogue that i play, i still enjoy it even though he can barely find traps, but has a lil wolf and summons to help out.

unbongwah
01-05-2018, 10:36 AM
Hmm I see. Should I focus on Paladin skill trees instead of halfling racial points? I now kinda regret choosing a halfling, perhaps it would be good for me to ignore halfling racial skills? My halfling dual wields, but can switch weapons to throwing hammers when enemies are far away.
So having experimented with thrown weapons on paladins before, there's some issues here:

Not enough feats to invest in melee and ranged/thrown DPS on a pure paladin.
The KotC tree is heavily weighed in favor of melee: Cleave attacks, Exalted Smite, Melee Power, etc. About all you benefit from w/thrown weapons is the light damage from the cores, Divine Might, and Melee / Ranged Power Boost.
In the case of a halfling paladin: the two biggest racial bonuses specific to thrown weapons they get is Skillful Thrower (DEX to damage) and Master Thrower (+1 crit range). But paladins are geared towards being STR+CHA-based and Holy Sword's crit range bonus is redundant with Master Thrower's and therefore doesn't stack. [In DDO, same-type bonuses don't stack, so pay attention to descriptions when trying to figure out what stacks and what doesn't.]


That's not to say you can't whip out a thrown weapon periodically to hit a distant target; if nothing else, occasionally you do have to shoot a lever to open gates etc. But for a pure paladin (especially if you're new to DDO), it's better to stick with just melee until you get the hang of things, IMO. See my drow paladin thread for sample TWF builds.

Blupanda
01-06-2018, 06:44 AM
So having experimented with thrown weapons on paladins before, there's some issues here:

Not enough feats to invest in melee and ranged/thrown DPS on a pure paladin.
The KotC tree is heavily weighed in favor of melee: Cleave attacks, Exalted Smite, Melee Power, etc. About all you benefit from w/thrown weapons is the light damage from the cores, Divine Might, and Melee / Ranged Power Boost.
In the case of a halfling paladin: the two biggest racial bonuses specific to thrown weapons they get is Skillful Thrower (DEX to damage) and Master Thrower (+1 crit range). But paladins are geared towards being STR+CHA-based and Holy Sword's crit range bonus is redundant with Master Thrower's and therefore doesn't stack. [In DDO, same-type bonuses don't stack, so pay attention to descriptions when trying to figure out what stacks and what doesn't.]


That's not to say you can't whip out a thrown weapon periodically to hit a distant target; if nothing else, occasionally you do have to shoot a lever to open gates etc. But for a pure paladin (especially if you're new to DDO), it's better to stick with just melee until you get the hang of things, IMO. See my drow paladin thread for sample TWF builds.

Hmm true. After reading your response, I am now leaning towards the Paladin's Vanguard skill tree, so I will be using shield + melee weapon (if enemies are close to me), as well as shield + throwing weapons (if enemies are far away). Since shields can be used with throwing weapons, any skill points I spend in shields can also benefit my defence when I throw weapons at enemies that are away, so no more wasting skill points. The only disadvantage is that I won't be taking much advantage of the halflings dexterity bonus (especially if I wear heavy/medium armour, although the halfling skill tree allows extra armour/dexterity bonus to get around this). Wondering if this would work well? Thanks for any advice :)