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View Full Version : Sorcerer, touchups and ideas. Also, new and modified metamagics.



TMTrainer
12-25-2017, 10:58 PM
Same as my bard (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492719-Bards-Touchups-and-ideas) this is just a list of ideas I came up with for Sorcerer and metamagics.

I will post the rest of my sorcerer ideas tomorrow.

And yes, I went crazy with the metamagics, sue me.

Metamagics
Empower Healing: 75 -> 100 Positive Spell power
Empower: 75 -> 100 Spell power
Enlarge: Doubles the range of a spell, increases the range of touch spells to 60 feet.
Eschew Materials: Unchanged
Extend Spell: Nerf reverted. Extend can now effect damage over time spells, such as Melfs Acid Arrow or Wall of Fire.
Heighten Spell: Unchanged.
Maximize Spell: 150 -> 200 Spell Power
Quicken Spell: Nerf. No longer makes spells uninterruptible.
Embolden Spell: Unchanged.
Intensify Spell: Unchanged.

New: Widen Spell: Increases the size of AoE spells by 30%, increased to 50% is epics. Spells cost 10 more.
New: Twin Spell: Spells that only target 1 foe, such as Melfs Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray and Magic Missile, now target 2, with the second target chosen randomly. Lowers the spell power of these spells by 50 and must be within 30 feet of each other. Spells cost 20 more. At epic level, this metamagic lets spells effect 2 more creatures.
New: Split Ray: Ray spells target another random creature for full effect. The creature must be within 30 feet of the main target. Stacks with Twin spell and the spell costs 10 more. At epic level, this metamagic lets ray spells effect 2 more creatures.
New: Fell Animate: When a spell kills a creature, it summons an undead appropriate to CR of the killed creature. This undead lasts 1 minute per caster level, but you can have a maximum of 5 undead at once. When you animate a creature successfully, you lose 15 SP, and when you hit 5 undead, this metamagic is automatically toggled off.
New: Corrupt Spell: Half of the damage of your spells is converted to evil damage, but benefit from the spells original penetration value for piercing evil damage reduction. Spells cost 15 more.
New: Chain Spell: Spells that chain effect more targets equal to half your caster level. Effected Spells cost 15 more.
New: Wild Spell: You and enemies roll on a wild magic table when you cast and when enemies are effected. Spell critical is increased by 1-10%, randomly per spell. Spells cost 10 more.
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Sorcerer
Overall: All SLAs have their cooldown reduced to normal spell levels (across the board, SLAs are currently 2-3x the cooldown of their respective spell).

Earth Savant

Cores -
Core 1: Fine
Core 2: Fine
Core 3: On top of current bonuses...
New: SLA Acid Blast
Core 4: On top of current bonuses...
New: On Acid or Conjuration spell damage: Inflict 0-2 stacks of Acid Vulnerability.
Core 5: On top of current bonuses...
New: SLA Cloud Kill
Core 6: On top of current bonuses...
Modified: Elemental form no longer reduces the caster level of water and fire spells by 3.
Modified: Elemental form no longer increases the spell point cost of spells by 10%
New: You gain +2 DCs to your conjuration, earth and acid spells, and while in elemental form your conjuration, earth and acid spells benefit from heighten and quicken without the spell point cost increase.

Tier 1
One with the Soil:
Modified: Grants 3/6/10% acid resistance as opposed to 3/6/10 flat acid resistance.
Erosion:
Modified: Whenever you damage with an acid, earth or conjuration spell, you gain 5 spell power for 6 seconds, stacking 3/6/10 times.
Tier 2
Pierce Acid Resistance:
Modified: Your acid spells now bypass 5/10/15% of the targets acid resistance, as opposed to 5/10/15 flat acid resistance.
Devouring Earth:
Modified: Whenever you critically hit with an acid spell, you gain 3/6/10 temporary spell points.
Tier 3
Spell Penetration:
Modified: Max points is now 6, letting you get +3 caster level to spell penetration.
Tier 4
Earthen Armor:
Modified: Now grants 5/10 AC when wearing robes and whenever you cast an acid spell, you gain 5/10 points of Ablative Armor. This ablative armor can stack up to a number of times equal to your sorcerer level.
Tier 5
Acid Blast:
Moved: Changed to core 3 (level 6).
Acid Rain:
New: Acid Rain SLA
Earthgrab:
Modified: DC = 10+ Sorc level + Conjuration DC, on a save they don't get CCed but take half damage from the DoT.
Modified: Damage is now 1d3 bludgeoning per Sorcerer level, and 1d3 acid damage per Sorcerer level per 2 seconds for 2 seconds per caster level (max 30d3 + 30d3 every 2 seconds for 60 seconds, average 2700~ damage) with no reoccurring saves? That's what it is currently). This damage scales with spell power and metamagics. Costs 15 SP, 15 second cool down.
Modified: Enemies immune to the CC portion of Earth Grab still take the damage over time.

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Fire Savant

Cores -
Core 1: Fine
Core 2: Fine
Core 3: On top of current bonuses...
New: Fireball SLA
Core 4:
New: On Fire or Evocation spell damage: Inflict 0-2 stacks of Fire Vulnerability.
Modified: On Fire spell cast: Your target gains 1 stack of burning per base caster level of the spell, dealing (1d6 + 1) fire damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. This effect can stack 20 times, losing 1 stack on expiration. This damage can scale with spell power.
Core 5: On top of current bonuses...
New: Delayed Blast Fireball SLA
Core 6: On top of current bonuses...
Modified: Elemental form no longer reduces the caster level of electric and acid spells by 3.
Modified: Elemental form no longer increases the spell point cost of spells by 10%
New: You gain +2 DCs to your evocation and fire spells, and while in elemental form your evocation and fire spells benefit from heighten and quicken without the spell point cost increase.

Tier 1
One with the Inferno:
Modified: You gain 3/6/10% fire resistance, as opposed to 3/6/10 flat fire resistance.
Conflagration:
Modified: Whenever you damage with an fire or evocation spell, you gain 5 spell power for 6 seconds, stacking 3/6/10 times.
Tier 2
Pierce Fire Resistance:
Modified: Your Fire spells now bypass 5/10/15% of the targets fire resistance, as opposed to 5/10/15 flat fire resistance.
Fanning the Flames:
Modified: Whenever you critically hit with an fire spell, you gain 3/6/10 temporary spell points. Anti-req; Scourge.
Tier 3
Spell Penetration:
Modified: Max points is now 6, letting you get +3 caster level to spell penetration.
Tier 4
Living Fire Guard
Modified: Now an aura. Enemies that attack (melee, ranged or spell) you or an ally get attacked with living flames, taking (1d4+1) per sorcerer level in damage. In addition, there is a low chance for hellfire to spew forth, dealing 100 fire damage. All damage from this effect scales with spell power.
Tier 5
Fireball
Removed
Fire Wall
New: Fire Wall SLA
Heat Death
Modified:
Modified: DC = 10+ Sorc level + Evocation DC, on a save they take half damage
Modified: Damage is now (2d100+20) per Sorcerer level (maximum damage being 60d100+600, average damage 3600) and this damage scales with spell power and metamagics. If an enemy takes more than 30% of it's total HP from this damage, they must succeed on an additional fortitude saving throw or die instantly. Enemies who survive are also are inflicted with 20 stacks of burning.

Hobgoblin
12-25-2017, 11:15 PM
no

TMTrainer
12-25-2017, 11:21 PM
no

Anything more constructive than that?

The metamagics I know are broken, but I wanted to throw ideas out there.

The damage that Sorcs would be able to put out would still be lower that a lot of classes. Their AoE would be a ton better (also, I ramped Fire Sorc up to 11 on purpose, Fire Sorc is incredibly weak at the moment.)

Hobgoblin
12-25-2017, 11:35 PM
fine break down the bad with this

Same as my bard (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492719-Bards-Touchups-and-ideas) this is just a list of ideas I came up with for Sorcerer and metamagics.

I will post the rest of my sorcerer ideas tomorrow.

And yes, I went crazy with the metamagics, sue me.

Metamagics
Empower Healing: 75 -> 100 Positive Spell power fine, but not needed
Empower: 75 -> 100 Spell power ok but reduce the cost of it - right now its cheaper to cast spell twice
Enlarge: Doubles the range of a spell, increases the range of touch spells to 60 feet.
Eschew Materials: Unchanged
Extend Spell: Nerf reverted. Extend can now effect damage over time spells, such as Melfs Acid Arrow or Wall of Fire.
Heighten Spell: Unchanged.
Maximize Spell: 150 -> 200 Spell Power - see empower
Quicken Spell: Nerf. No longer makes spells uninterruptible. why not remove the whole feat then?
Embolden Spell: Unchanged.
Intensify Spell: Unchanged.

New: Widen Spell: Increases the size of AoE spells by 30%, increased to 50% is epics. Spells cost 10 more.
New: Twin Spell: Spells that only target 1 foe, such as Melfs Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray and Magic Missile, now target 2, with the second target chosen randomly. Lowers the spell power of these spells by 50 and must be within 30 feet of each other. Spells cost 20 more. At epic level, this metamagic lets spells effect 2 more creatures. sounds good but headache to code
New: Split Ray: Ray spells target another random creature for full effect. The creature must be within 30 feet of the main target. Stacks with Twin spell and the spell costs 10 more. At epic level, this metamagic lets ray spells effect 2 more creatures.
New: Fell Animate: When a spell kills a creature, it summons an undead appropriate to CR of the killed creature. This undead lasts 1 minute per caster level, but you can have a maximum of 5 undead at once. When you animate a creature successfully, you lose 15 SP, and when you hit 5 undead, this metamagic is automatically toggled off. just a headache
New: Corrupt Spell: Half of the damage of your spells is converted to evil damage, but benefit from the spells original penetration value for piercing evil damage reduction. Spells cost 15 more.
New: Chain Spell: Spells that chain effect more targets equal to half your caster level. Effected Spells cost 15 more. unneeded
New: Wild Spell: You and enemies roll on a wild magic table when you cast and when enemies are effected. Spell critical is increased by 1-10%, randomly per spell. Spells cost 10 more. boring
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Sorcerer
Overall: All SLAs have their cooldown reduced to normal spell levels (across the board, SLAs are currently 2-3x the cooldown of their respective spell).

Earth Savant

Cores -
Core 1: Fine
Core 2: Fine
Core 3: On top of current bonuses...
New: SLA Acid Blast good in theory, would act like fireball and still be broken
Core 4: On top of current bonuses...
New: On Acid or Conjuration spell damage: Inflict 0-2 stacks of Acid Vulnerability.
Core 5: On top of current bonuses...
New: SLA Black Dragon Bolt - seriously a level 8 sla?
Core 6: On top of current bonuses...
Modified: Elemental form no longer reduces the caster level of water and fire spells by 3.
Modified: Elemental form no longer increases the spell point cost of spells by 10% ok god yes please
New: You gain +2 DCs to your conjuration, earth and acid spells, and while in elemental form your conjuration, earth and acid spells benefit from heighten and quicken without the spell point cost increase.

Tier 1
One with the Soil:
Modified: Grants 3/6/10% acid resistance as opposed to 3/6/10 flat acid resistance.
Erosion:
Modified: Whenever you damage with an acid, earth or conjuration spell, you gain 5 spell power for 6 seconds, stacking 3/6/10 times.
Tier 2
Pierce Acid Resistance:
Modified: Your acid spells now bypass 5/10/15% of the targets acid resistance, as opposed to 5/10/15 flat acid resistance.
Devouring Earth:
Modified: Whenever you critically hit with an acid spell, you gain 3/6/10 temporary spell points.
Tier 3
Spell Penetration:
Modified: Max points is now 6, letting you get +3 caster level to spell penetration.
Tier 4
Earthen Armor:
Modified: Now grants 5/10 AC when wearing robes and whenever you cast an acid spell, you gain 5/10 points of Ablative Armor. This ablative armor can stack up to a number of times equal to your sorcerer level.
Tier 5
Acid Blast:
Moved: Changed to core 3 (level 6).
Acid Rain:
New: Acid Rain SLA think would be op, but compared to locks prob not
Earthgrab: this is just fun. dont remove and replace with a pet that probably wont work
Removed.
Summon Soulbound Earth Elemental
New: [Toggle] Summons an Earth Elemental similar to Skeleton Knight or Artificer dog... acts as a pet with scaling HP and a hireling bar. It's the DC for it's Earthgrab is (it's CR+your conjuration DC+your sorc level). It's CR is equal to the level of the quest. It gains your gear based stat increases (str, con, dodge, MP, ect) and it's attacks scale with your spell power. Can also cast your SLAs. Can be summoned and resummoned for 100 SP.

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Fire Savant

Cores -
Core 1: Fine
Core 2: Fine
Core 3: On top of current bonuses...
New: Fireball SLA
Core 4:
New: On Fire or Evocation spell damage: Inflict 0-2 stacks of Fire Vulnerability.
Modified: On Fire spell cast: Your target gains 1 stack of burning per base caster level of the spell, dealing (1d6 + 1) fire damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. This effect can stack 20 times, losing 1 stack on expiration. This damage can scale with spell power.
Core 5: On top of current bonuses...
New: Meteor Swarm SLA - really?
Core 6: On top of current bonuses...
Modified: Elemental form no longer reduces the caster level of electric and acid spells by 3.
Modified: Elemental form no longer increases the spell point cost of spells by 10%
New: You gain +2 DCs to your evocation and fire spells, and while in elemental form your evocation and fire spells benefit from heighten and quicken without the spell point cost increase.

Tier 1
One with the Inferno:
Modified: You gain 3/6/10% fire resistance, as opposed to 3/6/10 flat fire resistance.
Conflagration:
Modified: Whenever you damage with an fire or evocation spell, you gain 5 spell power for 6 seconds, stacking 3/6/10 times.
Tier 2
Pierce Fire Resistance:
Modified: Your Fire spells now bypass 5/10/15% of the targets fire resistance, as opposed to 5/10/15 flat fire resistance.
Fanning the Flames:
Modified: Whenever you critically hit with an fire spell, you gain 3/6/10 temporary spell points. Anti-req; Scourge.
Tier 3
Spell Penetration:
Modified: Max points is now 6, letting you get +3 caster level to spell penetration.
Tier 4
Living Fire Guard
Modified: Now an aura. Enemies that attack (melee, ranged or spell) you or an ally get attacked with living flames, taking (1d4+1) per sorcerer level in damage. In addition, there is a low chance for hellfire to spew forth, dealing 100 fire damage. All damage from this effect scales with spell power. still worthless
Tier 5
Fireball
Removed
Delayed Blast Fireball
New: Delayed Blast Fireball SLA really
Heat Death you seem to want to take the fun and unique stuff out of the class
Removed
Summon Soulbound Fire Elemental
New: [Toggle] Summons an Fire Elemental similar to Skeleton Knight or Artificer dog... acts as a pet with scaling HP and a hireling bar. It can cast Heat Death, which deals (1d100+5) damage per Sorcerer level) to a single target on a 1 minute cooldown. The DC is (it's CR+your evocation DC+your sorc level) and it's CR is equal to the level of the quest. It gains your gear based stat increases (str, con, dodge, MP, ect) and it's attacks scale with your spell power. Can also cast your SLAs. Can be summoned and resummoned for 100 SP. no more stupid pets!

TMTrainer
12-26-2017, 12:10 AM
I want you to actually do the math on the damage of the SLAs the Fire Savant does and tell me if it gets at all close to the damage of a non-caster.

How much damage can Meteor Swarm do? Compare that to 1-3 autos from a ranged or melee damage dealer.
How much does a Fire Sorcerer actually use Heat Death? Compare that to meteor swarm. Compare that to 1-3 autos from a ranged or melee damage dealer.
Why are the pets stupid? They are able to cast your SLAs along side you (I did word it specifically so that elementals were omitted from metamagics).

Repeat this process with all the other SLAs, BDB included.

The nerf to quicken is because it feels like it invalidates an entire skill from the game while being the most required metamagic in the game. Yes, it's a huge nerf, but haven't kiting casters been able to solo pretty much all non-reaper content in the game for a long time now while dumping concentration... The arguably one weakness devs can exploit to make the game harder for self healers or healers in general? Quicken, even with this nerf, still greatly increases casting speed... Something still invaluable to a caster, but now casters need to worry about getting hit.

peng
12-26-2017, 03:51 AM
Metamagics:
maximize: increase to 200 spellpower, decrease cost to 15 sp
empower, intensify: 100 spellpower, cost 10 sp
empower heal: 100 spellpower, cost 5 sp

Not a huge fan of the metas you added. If adding new metas, I'd go for...
persistent spell: add 1 hour to duration of spell, adds 30 sp to cost. pre-req: extend
energy substitution: choose one type of energy when selecting this feat: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When casting a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. adds 5 sp to cost.

Leave the rest of the metas alone, particularly quicken.

I wholeheartedly endorse your changes to the capstones.

Not sure if adding so many slas, particularly giving level 8 or 9 slas, and allowing you to easily get 2 level 3 slas. Maybe instead, keep the level 3 slas in tier 5, and add a level 4 sla in core 5 (acid rain, firewall, ice storm, shout). That, on top of reducing the cooldowns of the slas should do enough I think. Also, instead of spending 1/1/1 ap for each sla, just make it a flat 2 ap. Also also, don't get rid of the t5 special abilities, just make them use cha and evo/conj DCs instead of con.

t1 resist: 5%/10%/15%
t2 pierce resistance: bypass 1/2/3 resistance per sorc level. cost 1/1/1 ap
t4 earth: 5/10 prr
t4 fire: each enemy that attacks you (melee, ranged or spell) gains 1-2 stacks of burning (1d6 fire damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. This effect can stack 20 times, and loses one stack on expiration. Scales with spellpower.)
t4 water: perma water breathing and 5 mrr
t4 air: ff toggle, and immune to fall damage even when ff off

core 4 earth: on acid spell cast: 1 stack of armor destruction and target loses 1 sr (up to... 10? 20? 50?)

Not sure how I feel about the summons. I'd rather they give us familiars.

The rest of your changes I like.

TMTrainer
12-26-2017, 07:20 AM
Metamagics:
maximize: increase to 200 spellpower, decrease cost to 15 sp
empower, intensify: 100 spellpower, cost 10 sp
empower heal: 100 spellpower, cost 5 sp

Not a huge fan of the metas you added. If adding new metas, I'd go for...
persistent spell: add 1 hour to duration of spell, adds 30 sp to cost. pre-req: extend
energy substitution: choose one type of energy when selecting this feat: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When casting a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. adds 5 sp to cost.

Leave the rest of the metas alone, particularly quicken.

I wholeheartedly endorse your changes to the capstones.

Not sure if adding so many slas, particularly giving level 8 or 9 slas, and allowing you to easily get 2 level 3 slas. Maybe instead, keep the level 3 slas in tier 5, and add a level 4 sla in core 5 (acid rain, firewall, ice storm, shout). That, on top of reducing the cooldowns of the slas should do enough I think. Also, instead of spending 1/1/1 ap for each sla, just make it a flat 2 ap. Also also, don't get rid of the t5 special abilities, just make them use cha and evo/conj DCs instead of con.

t1 resist: 5%/10%/15%
t2 pierce resistance: bypass 1/2/3 resistance per sorc level. cost 1/1/1 ap
t4 earth: 5/10 prr
t4 fire: each enemy that attacks you (melee, ranged or spell) gains 1-2 stacks of burning (1d6 fire damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. This effect can stack 20 times, and loses one stack on expiration. Scales with spellpower.)
t4 water: perma water breathing and 5 mrr
t4 air: ff toggle, and immune to fall damage even when ff off

core 4 earth: on acid spell cast: 1 stack of armor destruction and target loses 1 sr (up to... 10? 20? 50?)

Not sure how I feel about the summons. I'd rather they give us familiars.

The rest of your changes I like.

As per popular request I made some changes.


Summons removed.
Special T5 abilities revamped, but DCs and effects changed to make them more useful to cast.
SLAs modified for T5s and Core 5s.


Why am I pushing more SLAs?


Wizard and Druid have been able to rock 5+ SLAs for a while now, and with Warlock being the bar for casters now, SLAs are kinda required to compete.
Sorcerer is known for being an incredibly focused caster. SLAs open their spell slot options just a little bit more so that, when they hit that inevitable wall of content that their spell type is immune to, they are not as gimp.
In Heroics, a half-decent caster won't be using most of their spell points anyway... especially as a Sorcerer. Meanwhile in Epics and medium-tier Reaper, spellpoints are a HUGE issue because enemies take a relatively long time to kill.


Wizard: Magic Missile, Chain Missile, Cyclone, Arcane Bolt, Arcane Blast, and if they wanted to, Necrotic Touch, Necrotic Bolt.
Druid: Sun Burst, Storm of Vengeance, Produce Flame, Lightning Bolt, Call Lightning, Word of Balance, Spring Resurgence (I'm counting it, it's really good).

(And mind you, I'm not calling either one overpowered because they get more SLAs.)

I like your idea for Fire T4, your other ideas for the T4 abilities seem really weak for today's standards. Sorcerer should be able to compete with the best DPS during their nova periods. When they burn SP, the party should feel it. Right now, they have meh damage beyond heroics and their trade-off, the fact that their time DPSing is limited because of SP, hugely hinders their capabilities. If Sorcerers didn't have SP, they would still be behind in DPS, their potential damage is just not there.