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OfElectricMen
12-20-2017, 09:41 AM
DDO favor is in pretty dire need of some revisions. For one thing, some of the benefits are just sub-par after 30 some-odd updates. Another is that many of the factions still don’t have full tiers of favor. Others grant poorly considered rewards. I suggest the following changes.

Favor & Commendations
As implemented with Menace of the Underdark, the Commendations system makes no sense at all. Why is that one character performing Impossible Demands may get a Commendation for whichever grouping, while another in the same party gets none?

It doesn’t.

The commendations should never have been something that drops in a chest. But since they can and do drop in chests, they should be Unbound.

A better solution would be to revise the entire system. Either simply grant 1 Commendation per 5 Harper & Purple Dragon Knight Favor, or provide a fixed amount of Commendations from each grouping with quest completions, as follows:

Automatically award Commendations from each group to each character in a party upon quest completion. People would still have to grind the quests for the Commendations (as you desire), but without the random luck of the draw and begging from other party members (it really makes no sense that they are tradable in chests).

Commendations awarded would be based on Quest Difficulty:
Casual: 0
Normal: 1
Hard: 1
Elite: 2
Reaper: 3

Commendations of Heroism
You gain one (1) Commendation of Heroism for every (25 or 50) Harper & Purple Dragon Knight Favor.

Favor & Iconic Characters
When you create an Iconic Character, you have enough XP to advance to level 15. Once you do so, you then get to engage in a mind-numbingly boring slog of trying to acquire the favor you would normally get via adventuring for 15 character levels. This, frankly, sucks.

When you generate a brand new Iconic character, you should automatically receive Favor in each faction as if you had done *every* quest from levels 1-15 on the Normal setting. This gives a decent jump start on Favor, reducing the grind, while still requiring grinding for additional tiers of rewards.

This does not apply if Reincarnating into an Iconic character (see below).

Favor & True/Racial Reincarnation
When you perform a True or Racial Reincarnation, you begin a new life, possibly with a new race and class, but you’re still somewhat who you were, and the citizens of Stormreach should still remember many of your deeds in past lives. Currently, when you perform a True/Racial Reincarnation, your Favor in all factions is reset to 0, but this makes no sense in the game.

I suggest that when you perform a True/Racial Reincarnation, you retain 25% of all accrued Favor.
Call it a DDO version of the old pnp trick of willing all of your worldly goods to your next character, who is luckily related to your now-deceased character.

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Total Favor
Revise as follows:
1,750 Favor: Champion:
Unlocks 32-point builds for new (non-Drow) characters on that server.
This character receives one of the following:
A +2 Ability Tome of choice (unbound)
A +2 to +3 Upgrade Ability Tome of Choice (Bound to Character on Acquire)
5,000 Guild Renown

2,500 Favor:
Unlocks the Favored Soul class on that particular server.
This character receives one of the following:
A +2 Ability Tome of choice (unbound)
A +2 to +3 Upgrade Ability Tome of Choice (unbound)
5,000 Guild Renown

5,000 Favor: Revered:
Unlocks Veteran Status III for future characters created on that particular server (Veteran Status III allows you to start at level 10).
This character receives one of the following:
A +5 Ability Tome of choice (unbound)
A +3 to +4 Upgrade Ability Tome of Choice (unbound)
10,000 Guild Renown

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Agents of Argonnessen
Revise as follows:
Add enough favor to achieve Honored – 400 Favor
Honored – 400 Favor:
Draconic Strike: Free feat provides +1 to weapon damage

House Cannith
Revise as follows:
Respected – 150 Favor :
Unlocks the Artificer class on that server plus your choice of
Iron Defender creature companion
Or
1,000 Guild Renown

House Deneith
Revise as follows:
Add enough favor to achieve Honored – 400 Favor
Honored – 400 Favor:
Alacrity: You gain a +1% (or +2%) insight bonus to ranged attack speed.

House Jorasco
Revise as follows:
Noted – 75 Favor:
You can now purchase the following 2-hour buffs for 1,000 pp each. These buffs remain active portal transitions, quest entrances, and deaths.
Bless
Shield of Faith
Remove Fear

Commended – 150 Favor:
You can now purchase the following 2-hour buffs for 3,000 pp each. These buffs remain active portal transitions, quest entrances, and deaths.
Aid
Bear’s Endurance
Bull’s Strength
Eagle’s Splendor
Owl’s Wisdom
Resist Energy (type)
Water Breathing (5,000 pp)

Honored – 400 Favor:
You can now purchase the following 2-hour buffs for 10,000 pp each. These buffs remain active portal transitions, quest entrances, and deaths.
Experience Boost: Gain a +2% boost to all experience earned
Hit Points: Gain +20 hit points

House Kundarak
Revise as follows:
Add enough favor to achieve Honored – 400 Favor.
Honored – 400 Favor
You can purchase a 4th tab for your bank space, increasing it by 20 slots. This costs 150,000 gp.

House Phiarlan
Revise as follows:
Noted – 75 Favor:
Increase the duration of purchasable buffs to two hours, persisting through portal changes, quests entrances and exits, and deaths.

Commended – 150 Favor:
You receive a trinket (Phiarlan Pendant of Time) that lets you cast "Warp Time" on yourself 1/rest. If used in the city, this increases your speed by 50%. If used in an adventure or wilderness area, it increases your speed by 25%.
(This change makes the trinket actually useful and something people will try to work for again).

Add enough favor to achieve the Honored – 400 Favor tier.

Keepers of the Feather
The most recent addition to the list of factions, this one is very poorly thought out. Revise as follows:
Esteemed – 120 Favor:
You receive your choice of a Small Augment Bag, 20 Vistani Talismans, 30 Vistani Totems, or Improved Blessings of the Feather (an additional +2 bonus to saves versus undead, for a total of +4).

Famed – 180 Favor:
The character achieving this gains access to the Vistani universal enhancement tree, persisting through reincarnations. Additionally, you receive your choice of a Medium Augment Bag, 40 Vistani Talismans, 60 Vistani Totems, or Greater Blessings of the Feather (an additional +2 bonus to saves versus undead, for a total of +6).

Purple Dragon Knights
Revise as follows:
Add enough favor to achieve Greater Oversword – 500 Favor.

Blade – 125 Favor:
Receive a Key to the City - Eveningstar. This item allows you to teleport to Eveningstar once every 30 minutes. Every time you achieve this level of favor after the first, the cooldown for your key is reduced by 5 minutes (2nd life – 25 minutes, 3rd life – 20 minutes, etc.).

Swordcaptain – 250 Favor:
You receive your choice of a Spotted Wolf Pup creature companion, one creature companion accessory of up to xxx point value, or Imposing Presence (free feat that provides a +2 Purple Dragon Knight bonus to Intimidate checks).

Oversword – 375 Favor:
Access to the special crafting barter NPC Mikrom Sum in Eveningstar. Allows you to complete the Planar Focus sets using raid weapons and Commendation Item Sets using certain unique, non-Commendation armors.

Additionally, you gain Imposing Presence II (free feat that adds another +2 bonus to Intimidate checks).

Greater Oversword – 500 Favor:
Purple Dragon Durability: You gain +15 hit points.

The Coin Lords
Revise as follows:
Add enough favor to achieve Steadfast – 700 Favor.
Steadfast – 700 Favor:
You are gifted a Handy Haversack, increasing your backpack inventory by an additional 20 spaces.

The Free Agents
Revise as follows:
Champion of Stormreach:
You gain a 10% discount from all merchants, vendors, and barkeeps in Stormreach.

The Gatekeepers
Somehow, despite adding several quests that provide Favor with this faction, actual rewards were completely left out of the game. Revise as follows:
Add enough favor to achieve Respected – 400 Favor.

Noted – 200 Favor:
You have gained the attention of The Gatekeepers. As a reward, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls against aberrations, outsiders, and undead.

Respected – 400 Favor:
The Gatekeepers have trained you well in attacking the unnatural. You gain a +1 bonus to weapon and unarmed damage against aberrations, outsiders, and undead.

The Harpers
Revise as follows:
Master Harper – 310 Favor:
Grants server-based access to the Harper Agent enhancement tree.
You gain a Harper Pin, Superior from Olarra Idlewist.

Harper Pin, Superior:
Using this item should dispel any Crowd Control effects incapacitating you.
This item has a 2-minute cooldown. It does not share this cooldown with the Lesser and Greater Harper Pins.

The Silver Flame
Leave as is.

The Twelve
Revise as follows:
Member of The Twelve – 400 Favor:
You gain an Extra Large Ingredients Bag.

The Yugoloth
Leave as is.

Sunnie
12-20-2017, 10:36 AM
Favor & Iconic Characters
When you create an Iconic Character, you have enough XP to advance to level 15. Once you do so, you then get to engage in a mind-numbingly boring slog of trying to acquire the favor you would normally get via adventuring for 15 character levels. This, frankly, sucks.

When you generate a brand new Iconic character, you should automatically receive Favor in each faction as if you had done *every* quest from levels 1-15 on the Normal setting. This gives a decent jump start on Favor, reducing the grind, while still requiring grinding for additional tiers of rewards.

This does not apply if Reincarnating into an Iconic character (see below).

Favor & True/Racial Reincarnation
When you perform a True or Racial Reincarnation, you begin a new life, possibly with a new race and class, but you’re still somewhat who you were, and the citizens of Stormreach should still remember many of your deeds in past lives. Currently, when you perform a True/Racial Reincarnation, your Favor in all factions is reset to 0, but this makes no sense in the game.

I suggest that when you perform a True/Racial Reincarnation, you retain 25% of all accrued Favor.
Call it a DDO version of the old pnp trick of willing all of your worldly goods to your next character, who is luckily related to your now-deceased character.
I mostly like your proposal, but the quoted part is not very well thought out imo. Keyword: DDO points

One could, as proposed, create an iconic and immediately get (by my estimate) 600-800 favour which translates to 150-200 DDO points. Simply for creating a character. Delete and repeat. It would completely kill revenue for DDO from point sales at the least. The alternative of granting the favour but not the points is hardly better because now you have a character and aren't able to get full DDO points for all those quests. Additionally, I think having all those quests flagged as being completed on normal would also mean no bravery bonus for the level 13+ quests, and no first time bonus for any of them. Basically, it creates more and worse problems than the problems it solves.

Similar concerns apply to retaining 25% of one's favour on a True or Racial Reincarnation, but there's a far more basic question there: Which 25% of the favour? It can't be by leaving everything as completed on normal (for reasons detailed as above) and that would be 33% or more anyway. Do you clear all quests but retain the favour for the patrons and total count anyway? Do you get points for the favour you retain? This would also mean that you could get a higher amount of favour than there is in the game.

I generally agree that the rewards need updating, but I'm highly sceptical of the supposed benefits of giving characters favour upon creation, I mostly see drawbacks.


One other problem I saw was with the Key to Eveningstar. I don't know that it's possible to track how often a given character has reached any particular milestone of favour, I think it's a binary thing to see if you have access to Drow, FvS, Harper, are getting first-time bonus points, etc. I think it would be better to just lower the cooldown on the thing to 10 minutes.

Selvera
12-20-2017, 01:27 PM
While I agree with you in that favor is in pretty dire need of some revisions; I disagree with most of what you're proposing. Let's break things down a bit:

Favor & Commedations:
These are two completely different systems. While commendations might not completely make sense; they are loot, while favor is not.

Favor & Iconics:
It does not take an iconic overly long to get the current "necessary" favor; and some people like that "mind-numbingly boring" task of slaughtering swathes of easy enemies. On my current Iconic, I farmed the majority of the favor I needed to get all the bag/bank space for my character in 2-3 hours on a level 13 iconic cleric with nearly no gear. (I should have really taken level 14 in hindsight). During this time I put up an lfm and formed a full group, and we had plenty of time to chat while running through easy content at high speed.

So you think that having your old character retire/die and having a new baby who no one knows anything about; but happens to have some knowledge of a previous life shouldn't reset all your favor to 0? Seems to me quite logical. Meanwhile if characters retained favor; would that lock them out of getting it again, or would it trivialize hitting the high favor tiers without requiring less-run quests to be completed on elite difficulties? Neither option seems ideal to me.

A more valid solution that I would prefer would be to allow iconics to earn xp as if they weren't capped, while they're below level 15. If I want the favor grind to feel more like leveling a new character, I could run the harbor on reaper at level 2 on my iconic; but currently that's beyond terrible xp/min, since you don't get (non-reaper) xp for it.

Favor Rewards:

Total Favor
1,750 Favor: Champion:
Actually, I agree completely with your list here. It looks good.

2,500 Favor:
Not so convinced by this list. I think it should be given at 3,000 favor and include:
Unlocks veteran status II on the server (allowing creation of level 7 characters) and your choice of the following:
A +3 Ability tome of choice (btc)
A +3 to +4 upgrade ability tome (bta)
5,000 guild renown

5,000 Favor: Revered:
Disagree. Not a fan of unbound +5 tome and not a fan of an upgrade tome which is strictly worse then a +5 unbound tome. Let's show my counter-list.
A +5 Ability tome of choice (btc)
A +5 to +6 Ability tome of choice (bta)
7,500 guild renown

Add enough favor to get to 6,000 favor, this should be about 50 more favor needed.
6,000 Favor: Legendary:
A +6 to +7 Ability tome of choice (unbound)
A +7 Ability tome of choice (bta)
A +7 to +8 Ability tome of choice (btc)
10,000 guild renown

Agents of Argonnessen
Here's my counter-proposal.
Add enough favor to reach 400 favor. (That should be one more quest)
Honored – 400 Favor:
Draconic Strike: Free feat provides +1 to one handed melee weapon damage, or +2 to two-handed melee weapon damage.

House Cannith
Revise as follows:
Respected – 150 Favor :
Unlocks the Artificer class on that server, and grants a feat:
Cannith-construction: Gain 10% repair amplification in reaper mode.

House Deneith
Lower-tier favor rewards:
Increase the stack size of Darts, Shuriken, Throwing Axes, Throwing Daggers or Throwing Hammers to 100 from 20.

Add enough favor to achieve Honored – 400 Favor

Honored – 400 Favor:
Dennith Weaponry: You gain +1 weapon damage with repeating crossbows and thrown weapons. You gain +2 weapon damage with bows and non-repeating crossbows.

The Free Agents
I'll agree with you on this one; although it could simply be a feat that grants haggle instead, if that's easier.

House Jorasco
Lower tiers:
I agree with you; but don't agree with the steep price increase. The people who need these buffs most are the ones who don't have that kind of money yet.

Honored – 400 Favor:
Not a fan of having to run back to house J every 2 hours to get a bonus ship buff. Furthermore; it is currently a long-way away from getting this rank, so I think we can live without it for a bit.

House Kundarak
Agreed; but we're a long way away from getting there, so no rush on adding another 60 house K favor unless the new pack is set there.

House Phiarlan
Agreed; although I don't thing even this would get most people to farm the pendant of time (which is much easier to get through the crafting tutorial).

Keepers of the Feather
They just added this and it is what it is. It's not outdated.
it would be nice if they added a better 180 favor reward though; as vistanii tree is very much a one-time-thing. Adding 20 Vistani Tokens would be a good improvement to the reward. (Something I would pick up every life in the forseeable future).

Purple Dragon Knights
There is already enough favor to reach 500; there's just no reward for it yet. We should fix that.

Blade – 125 Favor:
Your choice of:
Key to the City - Eveningstar
6 commendations of your choice (Clerics/Druids/Knights/Villagers/Wizards)

Swordcaptain – 250 Favor:
Your choice of:
Spotted Wolf pup companion
10 commedations of your choice (Clerics/Druids/Knights/Villagers/Wizards)
500 materials of your choice from E-star challenges

Oversword – 375 Favor:
Access to the special crafting barter NPC Mikrom Sum in Eveningstar. Allows you to complete the Planar Focus sets using raid weapons and Commendation Item Sets using certain unique, non-Commendation armors.
Also, your choice of:
2 commendations of Heroism
3 commendations of each (Clerics/Druids/Knights/Villagers/Wizards) (15 total)
200 materials of each E-star challenge (1200 total)

Greater Oversword – 500 Favor:
Your choice of the following:
Purple Dragon Recovery: A feat that grants 10% healing amplification in reaper mode (only).
Purple Dragon Magic: Echos of power restores spell points every 4 seconds instead of every 6 seconds.
2 commendations of Heroism

The Coin Lords
I'm ok with them not adding another tier to coin lords yet. Still nearly 100 favor away from that anyways.

The Gatekeepers
I'll agree with giving bonuses vs abberations, outsiders and undead for the gatekeepers, but we're a ways away from ever getting to 400. So how's this?

Noted – 200 Favor:
You have gained the attention of The Gatekeepers. As a reward, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and saves against aberrations, outsiders, and undead.

The Harpers
Agreed, except that the superior harper pin SHOULD share a cooldown with the others, and should also have a 4 minute cooldown. (So it's only slightly stronger, not game-breakingly stronger).

The Silver Flame
They should add "Greater Silver Flame Healing Potion" which heal 750 HP, and provide all the same penalties (or possibly larger penalties) as the other silver flame healing potions; but are minimum level 20 to use.

The Twelve
Member of The Twelve – 400 Favor:
You receive an extra large ingredients bag (exclusive)
Grants access to a new room in Meridia which contains the following:
Altar of Invasion, Altar of Subjugation, Altar of Devastation, Legendary Alter of Invasion, Legendary Alter of Subjugation, Legendary Alter of Devastation
And an NPC which allows you to exchange an extra large ingredients bag (exclusive) for one which is not exclusive, for 150 planar shards.

The Yugoloth
Agreed.

QuantumFX
12-20-2017, 02:45 PM
IMO, in any favor revamp, I’d rather see less power creep and more convenience.

Examples:

House Phairlan:
- Tier 1: Buffs
- Tier 2: Make the Time trinket a permanent Striding +30% ability since every person already has a quiver of alacrity.
- Tier 3: Spymaster: A vendor that allows us to purchase decent Rogue and Bard hirelings. (You know, hirelings that could actually handle not blowing up traps.)

House Denith:
- Tier 1: Masterwork <material> weapon vendors
- Tier 2: Returning Ammo vendor
- Tier 3: Armor vendor for bound Blue slotted Masterwork Armors and Weapons.

House Jorasco:
- Tier 1: Healer’s Guild Cleric: Extended duration buffs.
- Tier 2: Healer’s Guild Herbalist: BtC combo potions for Mummy Rot (Remove Curse + Remove Disease)
- Tier 3: Healer’s Guild Alchemist: BtC Restoration and improved ML Cure potions.

House Kundarak:
- Tier 1: Bank Slot 1
- Tier 2: Bank Slot 2
- Tier 3: ATM clickie that lets us pull an item out of our bank while in a quest.

The Twelve: Unlocking a vendor that allows us to buy ML 5/7/10/11 wands. Maybe even offer high level scrolls for exorbitant prices.

Silver Flame: Unlocking a vendor for blessed weapons and returning ammo.

Free Agent: Jadine Forgesmith being moved to an open area and offering an hour long buff for offsetting equipment damage. Masterwork slotted jewelry and clothing would be nice too.

Total Favor: Offering a better choice of Stat Tome/Skill Tome/XP elixir/Renown elixir/etc at every 1,000 total favor. Now that we're coming up on 6,000 total favor, and today's changes to tomes, it would be nice to not have to pay to win the first 7 tiers of the tome lottery DDO has stuck itself in.

Basically, stuff we already have, but without the B.S. of having to spend real money directly on it. (As you would spend the money on content instead.)

SirValentine
12-20-2017, 04:49 PM
Throwing away an incomplete and imperfect, but more-or-less working system? Bad idea. DDO has been down that road before. They won't want to put in the work to do it right, and we'll just end up with a different incomplete and imperfect system.

I'll settle for implementing the various missing favor rewards, and tweaking a few.

Fix & finish, don't destroy.