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Malkariss
11-20-2017, 10:49 PM
Hi all... I just recently got back into ddo and decided to run a solo toon (Ive never made it to level 20 because my friends always get burnt out and I was tired of starting over.) So I rolled up a monk and planned to build a shiradi shuriken thrower... So far at level 12 im loving it and soloing quest 2-3 levels higher than myself. Simce im getting closer to 20 I started researching the Epic Destinys and unless im mistaken or misreading I found out I cant take shiradi right at 20 without multiclassing.... The prerequisites show 6 levels in other classes or 4 ranks in another ED first. Am I reading that correctly... and if so how bad is it going to hurt me to give up 6 levels in monk for 6 levels ranger?

GeoffWatson
11-20-2017, 10:54 PM
It won't take long to level up to 4 in Legendary Dreadnought before switching to Shiradi.

Monk 14/Ranger 6 is a fine multi-class choice, but one you should have planned from the start, as you probably already have some of the feats Ranger gives you.

Rhysem
11-20-2017, 11:02 PM
Stay pure if that's your plan. Start in martial right next to the primal sphere. Get 4 ranks in martial and you can flip over to filling out the primal sphere and get to shiradi. Note that your first time through epic your epic feat choices are going to be limited and likely lame because you haven't filled any spheres out. LR or ER will fix that.

Malkariss
11-21-2017, 08:03 PM
So it looks like the only feat ranger 1-6 would give me that I have already taken is rapid shot... I coupd always reroll this feat correct? If so would that make Multiclassing the better option or do I lose to much in survivability by breaking away from pure monk.

Hamagawi
11-21-2017, 09:07 PM
So it looks like the only feat ranger 1-6 would give me that I have already taken is rapid shot... I coupd always reroll this feat correct? If so would that make Multiclassing the better option or do I lose to much in survivability by breaking away from pure monk.

I'm not an expert on ranger builds but it looks like the tradeoff is

6 ranger:
-instant access to shiradi, as opposed to getting access to it around level 22
-rapid shot and precise shot for free (you could still swap rapid shot for something else), though in the process you have to spend a feat on grandmaster of forms if you want it
-2 level 1 spells, primarily utility but rams might is +2 dmg
-manyshot, although to utilize manyshot you would need zen archery
-I haven't tried to do any enhancement planning but likely the ranger levels would give you access to some better enhancements outside of the ninja spy tree
-you get 2 favored enemies for +4 dmg against each of them

pure monk:
-most obvious advantage of staying pure is the ninja spy capstone which gives +2 dex, +2 wis, 5 sneak dice(keep in mind that this scales with 150% of ranged power, I'm not sure what a reasonable amount of ranged power is but this is likely hitting for a lot more than 17.5 dmg, my handwraps monk with only 3d6 sneak dice from enhancements and some sneak from items generally hits for 100 sneak dmg per hit), +1 crit multiplier and vorpal to all weapons you are centered with
-10k stars gives doubleshot equal to 5*monk level so pure would have 30 extra doubleshot while 10k stars is active
-couple nice things like monk move speed, monk ac and monk spell resistance


Overall I think that the pure version is stronger and unless you want to utilize both bows and shurikens I don't think that splashing 6 ranger levels is worth gaining access to shiradi 2 levels earlier.

Malkariss
11-21-2017, 09:30 PM
I'm not an expert on ranger builds but it looks like the tradeoff is

6 ranger:
-instant access to shiradi, as opposed to getting access to it around level 22
-rapid shot and precise shot for free (you could still swap rapid shot for something else), though in the process you have to spend a feat on grandmaster of forms if you want it
-2 level 1 spells, primarily utility but rams might is +2 dmg
-manyshot, although to utilize manyshot you would need zen archery
-I haven't tried to do any enhancement planning but likely the ranger levels would give you access to some better enhancements outside of the ninja spy tree
-you get 2 favored enemies for +4 dmg against each of them

pure monk:
-most obvious thing is you lose the ninja spy capstone which gives +2 dex, +2 wis, 5 sneak dice(keep in mind that this scales with 150% of ranged power, I'm not sure what a reasonable amount of ranged power is but this is likely hitting for a lot more than 17.5 dmg, my handwraps monk with only 3d6 sneak dice from enhancements and some sneak from items generally hits for 100 sneak dmg per hit), +1 crit multiplier and vorpal to all weapons you are centered with
-10k stars gives doubleshot equal to 5*monk level so pure would have 30 extra doubleshot while 10k stars is active
-couple nice things like monk move speed, monk ac and monk spell resistance


Overall I think that the pure version is stronger and unless you want to utilize both bows and shurikens I don't think that splashing 6 ranger levels is worth gaining access to shiradi 2 levels earlier.


So are you saying a pure monk loses the ninja spy capstone or splashing ranger causes you to lose it? Idefinitelywant the capatone

unbongwah
11-21-2017, 09:58 PM
As a general rule, it's a bad idea to change your leveling plan mid-stream. Can mess up your feat progression etc. in ways you don't expect. And yes, like others have said, if you multiclass, you can't take your primary class's capstone (aka level 20 core Enhancement), because access to those is based on the number of class levels you have, not just your character level. Which is all part of the tradeoffs of MCing and why you plan things out first. "Plan twice, level once" is my motto! :cool:

[Harper and Vistani Knife Fighter are different: they're universal Enhancement trees, meaning access to their cores are based on character level. But you gave no indication of using them, so I'm ignoring them for now.]

Plus as a pure monk, it's pretty trivial to get to Shiradi. When you hit level 20, you can choose Legendary Dreadnought (LD) as your first Epic Destiny (ED). Once you level LD to 4 - takes 1,080K XP which also gets you most of the way to epic level 22 - you can unlock Shiradi as it's an immediately adjacent ED and switch to it if you wish. So there's no need to MC just so you can unlock Shiradi first.

[And to be honest LD is better DPS for shurikens than Shiradi, but...well, that's a discussion for another time.]

Hamagawi
11-23-2017, 12:13 PM
So are you saying a pure monk loses the ninja spy capstone or splashing ranger causes you to lose it? Idefinitelywant the capatone

I worded that very poorly, what I was trying to say was that the most obvious advantage of staying pure would be the capstone, I'll edit my first post to make that more clear.