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PsychoBlonde
11-01-2017, 07:24 PM
Bards are arcane casters and generally "jack of all trades" types of characters . . . so what about giving Bards access to Repair spells on their list of spells they can know? It would just add a small option to the game that might be a little interesting.

changelingamuck
11-01-2017, 11:10 PM
/not signed

Pretty sure there's no basis in the source material in pen-and-paper for giving bards repair spells. And game mechanics-wise, I rarely favor anything that makes classes less differentiated from one another.

PsychoBlonde
11-02-2017, 12:24 AM
So, by that rationale bards shouldn't get cure spells, either, because that makes them undifferentiated from clerics, favored souls, and druids, right? And they shouldn't get charm spells, because wizards and sorcerers get those. And they should only have access to the Fatesinger destiny, because that makes them more different. And they shouldn't be able to swing a weapon, because that makes them too much like the martial classes.

Right?

Getting both heals AND repairs would actually make them MORE unique, rather than LESS. There's currently one class that has this in a limited way (Artificer), which, huh, shares being a "specialist" with bard. There are six classes that get heals only (cleric, favored soul, paladin, druid, ranger, bard), and two that get repairs only (wizard, sorcerer). And one that gets neither (warlock).

Repair spells aren't part of the core source material anyway (they're not in the PHB in any edition) and there's generally more latitude with add-on stuff because, hey, the whole point of all those extra books is to bring MORE options to the table. Many of them include things like "here's how to edit the list of available spells for a class" etc.

Chacka_DDO
11-02-2017, 03:57 AM
Bards are arcane casters and generally "jack of all trades" types of characters . . . so what about giving Bards access to Repair spells on their list of spells they can know? It would just add a small option to the game that might be a little interesting.

I think you got a strong argument but in this case I would ask how Pen and Paper bards work and I would try to be conform with this.
But I could even imagine that a bard get basically access to all spells from arcane and divine, but just not the highest and therefore I basically don't understand why bards get access to the Wail of the Banshee spell with an enhancement.
Therefore why not a selection of all level 1-6 divine and arcane spells for a level 20 bard?
The base idea of bard magic from my understanding is they can do all but just not the highest spell levels of all schools, arcane and divine.
And another limitation is of course the limited spell slots so a bard can potentially do everything but not everything at once.
Therefore the limit of spell slots should also not be softened by Enhancements etc.
And if one say they can pick the best spells because there only a few really useful spells in DDO I tell this might be right but the problem is DDO needs more spells and the currently useless spells need to be made useful! (maybe read this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/489984-please-make-spells-useful-in-lvl-30))

HastyPudding
11-02-2017, 12:57 PM
I think you got a strong argument but in this case I would ask how Pen and Paper bards work and I would try to be conform with this.
But I could even imagine that a bard get basically access to all spells from arcane and divine, but just not the highest and therefore I basically don't understand why bards get access to the Wail of the Banshee spell with an enhancement.
Therefore why not a selection of all level 1-6 divine and arcane spells for a level 20 bard?
The base idea of bard magic from my understanding is they can do all but just not the highest spell levels of all schools, arcane and divine.
And another limitation is of course the limited spell slots so a bard can potentially do everything but not everything at once.
Therefore the limit of spell slots should also not be softened by Enhancements etc.
And if one say they can pick the best spells because there only a few really useful spells in DDO I tell this might be right but the problem is DDO needs more spells and the currently useless spells need to be made useful! (maybe read this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/489984-please-make-spells-useful-in-lvl-30))

The devs said spellsingers get wail of the banshee because it's thematic.

Kza
11-02-2017, 01:44 PM
Bards are arcane casters and generally "jack of all trades" types of characters . . . so what about giving Bards access to Repair spells on their list of spells they can know? It would just add a small option to the game that might be a little interesting.

Signed. More versatility
And in the era of fast game. Evolve the songs so all buff songs
Is combined and fast cast. Bard just so slow so before you
Have finished the songs the other have completed the dungeon.

Enoach
11-02-2017, 01:57 PM
While I lean towards 3.5 rules for how I feel about this particular request - In that Repair is not an innate spell of the bard class.

I will to point out that my bard does have repair spells as well as inflict version. But this is likely because my bard has 4 Levels of Artificer.

So if you are open to multi-classing there is a way.

But I want to point out that the jack-of-all-trades aspect of the Bard is very much rooted in UMD options.

So while I'm not in favor of adding it as a bard spell, I would not be against the development of a Tree that could give say WF options outside of being a Sorcerer/Wizard/Artificer.

PsychoBlonde
11-02-2017, 03:51 PM
Could always add a few of the repair spells as part of the Spellsinger cores, too.

Aelonwy
11-02-2017, 04:42 PM
I would like to point out that in my PnP PHB bards get a cantrip called Mending. This repairs small objects including metal ones and could be used to argue that bards could get some repair spells albeit not the highest or best ones.

There are many differences between DDO and PnP up to and including the existence of cantrips, familiars, ranger animal companions, 2 domains for clerics at character creation, much larger variety of druid wildshapes, and the list goes on and on.

changelingamuck
11-10-2017, 12:36 PM
So, by that rationale bards shouldn't get cure spells, either, because that makes them undifferentiated from clerics, favored souls, and druids, right? And they shouldn't get charm spells, because wizards and sorcerers get those. And they should only have access to the Fatesinger destiny, because that makes them more different. And they shouldn't be able to swing a weapon, because that makes them too much like the martial classes.

Right?

Getting both heals AND repairs would actually make them MORE unique, rather than LESS. There's currently one class that has this in a limited way (Artificer), which, huh, shares being a "specialist" with bard. There are six classes that get heals only (cleric, favored soul, paladin, druid, ranger, bard), and two that get repairs only (wizard, sorcerer). And one that gets neither (warlock).

Repair spells aren't part of the core source material anyway (they're not in the PHB in any edition) and there's generally more latitude with add-on stuff because, hey, the whole point of all those extra books is to bring MORE options to the table. Many of them include things like "here's how to edit the list of available spells for a class" etc.

I don't agree with your comparisons here and I don't believe that you understand my logic behind my disagreement.

I would like to be able to have a difference of opinion on these forums without it resulting in a 12 page long thread of 'debating' though. So, I'm not going to get into it further.

You made a suggestion. I disagreed with that suggestion and gave a reason. You didn't like the reason. We have a difference of opinion and can respectfully agree to disagree.

SirValentine
11-14-2017, 08:22 PM
Bards are arcane casters and generally "jack of all trades" types of characters . . . so what about giving Bards access to Repair spells on their list of spells they can know? It would just add a small option to the game that might be a little interesting.

Their spell list is spelled out in the rules. Repair spells aren't in there.

But they can already be a jack of all trades. Bards are Charisma-based, and have UMD as a class skill. Just go pick up a Repair wand, and you're good to go.

Considering all the things classes should have that they don't, I really oppose giving any kind of priority to giving classes thing they shouldn't have.