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edrein
10-25-2017, 05:32 AM
I've always had a bone to pick with the prestiges in DDO; rather their implimentation. There are plenty of prestiges that in tabletop 3.5e and even other 3.5e games (Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2) that are either multiclass based or are available to multiple classes.

Now that we've seen two uses of the universal enhancement trees, I'm hoping that the devs could unlock these 'multiclassed' trees to universally appear for the appropriate classes if requirements are met per tabletop stylization.

For instance, the first that comes to mind is Eldritch Knight. This tree is literally a prestige for Arcanes that essentially gives them a splash of fighter levels, without taking fighter levels. Why not allow fighters to take Eldritch Knight? Have them take Magical Training as a feat. ( https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Eldritch_Knight )

Likewise Arcane Archer required a few feats and the ability to cast level 1 arcane spells. Give wizard, sorcerer, and warlock access to these: with the inclusion that they require Point Blank Shot, Precision, and Weapon Focus Ranged. ( https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Arcane_Archer )

Palemaster should be available for Clerics and Favored Souls on the requirements of: Blood of Vol religion and/or Death Domain for cleric. This is based on the tabletop requirement of 8 knowledge religion and being able to cast both command undead and vampiric touch (which doesn't exist in DDO). ( http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/pale-master/index.html had to dig this one up on another website.)

Seeing as Swashbuckler was always a class on it's own, though it shares similar ground with both fighters and rogues I'd suggest perhaps opening the prestige up to them. (Ranger as well if we consider Eberron official artwork of a certain Aasimar noble...)

You could eventually get even more crazy and make arguments for certain enhancements being opened to clerics based on their domain selection, but that might be a bit too far. Honestly, I'd make my argument for the first three and let the community make a decision from there on out with a dialogue with the devs.

Chacka_DDO
10-25-2017, 11:07 AM
I think I like the idea that it is important what feats you have and not what class if it comes to the question which Enhancements you can use.
But I think the maximum numbers of Enhancements trees you can use at the same time should be limited.
But due to the limit to 80 Action Points, this might be not even needed.
So e.g. for Swashbuckler you need maybe the inspire competence feat but to have full access to this Enhancement tree it is enough to have one bard level.
And all Enhancements should be character level and not class level based.

unbongwah
10-25-2017, 11:13 AM
For instance, the first that comes to mind is Eldritch Knight. This tree is literally a prestige for Arcanes that essentially gives them a splash of fighter levels, without taking fighter levels. Why not allow fighters to take Eldritch Knight? Have them take Magical Training as a feat. ( https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Eldritch_Knight )

Likewise Arcane Archer required a few feats and the ability to cast level 1 arcane spells. Give wizard, sorcerer, and warlock access to these: with the inclusion that they require Point Blank Shot, Precision, and Weapon Focus Ranged. ( https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Arcane_Archer )
Uhh, did you actually bother reading those links? Because if you did, you would see that one of Eldritch Knight's pre-reqs is "Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells" and one of AA's pre-reqs is "Race: Elf or half-elf." DDO's current implementation is closer to those restrictions than your proposed changes would be.

Seeing as Swashbuckler was always a class on it's own, though it shares similar ground with both fighters and rogues I'd suggest perhaps opening the prestige up to them.
Implementing a PnP base class as a bard tree in DDO was certainly...odd. But I'm basically content to keep it the way it is. Turning it into a multi-class or universal tree would just water bards down further than they already are. :rolleyes:

edrein
10-25-2017, 02:41 PM
Uhh, did you actually bother reading those links? Because if you did, you would see that one of Eldritch Knight's pre-reqs is "Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells" and one of AA's pre-reqs is "Race: Elf or half-elf." DDO's current implementation is closer to those restrictions than your proposed changes would be.

Implementing a PnP base class as a bard tree in DDO was certainly...odd. But I'm basically content to keep it the way it is. Turning it into a multi-class or universal tree would just water bards down further than they already are. :rolleyes:

I did actually read them. The best form of translating EK for fighters would be the magical training requirement, seeing as they don't have arcane caster levels. You do have me on AA, I completely overlooked the racial requirement.

PsychoBlonde
10-25-2017, 02:50 PM
I did actually read them. The best form of translating EK for fighters would be the magical training requirement, seeing as they don't have arcane caster levels. You do have me on AA, I completely overlooked the racial requirement.

The best form of "translating" Eldritch knight for fighters would be to leave it on arcane spellcasters only, as it never has been and never was a fighter tree. The benefits for the EK tree are as follows:

Slightly higher hit die than arcane caster. (useless for fighters, because it's lower than their standard hit die)
Higher BaB than arcane caster (useless for fighters, because once again they already get the highest BaB in the game)
+levels in arcane casting class (useless for fighters, since they DON'T GET ARCANE CASTING LEVELS)

So why do you keep insisting that this should be a "fighter" tree? It literally has ZERO efficacy for a fighter, with or without the magical training feat.